It's About Time. Germany Rules Religious Circumcision on Boys is Assault

Oh it's mutilation?

Than so is every piercing and tattoo you can conjure.

How about this?
I will mind my business and conduct my traditions if I choose, and you can mind your business and conduct whatever traditions you choose?

And I'll leave you alone, and you leave me alone.

So stop worrying about my penis.
That's my prerogative not anyone else's.

I am getting REAL TIRED of the totalitarian laws.

Also, even though I don't actually believe Jews are a race, which they aren't, this story is begging for a comic relief sarcasm.

"Oh Germany is gonna ban circumcision? What do you expect from Anti-Semites?"

Hah, ok, maybe that's too much fun for one post.

reply to post by jheated5


but isnt that just doctrination? afterall if you choose to have it done as an adult, based on medical or religious reasoning, under GA, you'd be happy. but why thank you dad for NOT stopping someone hurt their newborn child? also thanking your dad for not giving you the choice, yeah sex is great for you, but you'll never know the difference between what i experience and what you experience (pssst its not a major difference, but worth keeping it)

im all for choice......but when your an adult.

reply to post by muzzleflash


id love to say more, but ill chukkle instead. all i know is germany once knew how to finance a country, until merkel, if you get my drift, which is very much the opposite of what your referencing....

Originally posted by ColoradoJens
As the loquacious Christopher Hitchen's repeated said, "Genital Mutilation is NO JOKE".

How can anyone think it is ok to do this to children, all in the name of God? The truth lies in the fact that religion HATES your sexuality and wants you to be both ashamed of it and to be scarred for life - that to lessen your sexual pleasure somehow makes you more closer to God's ideals.

As an American I find it interesting that so many can be so shoked by the genital mutilation cases from Africa our news is so keen to show us, but they themselves have been mutilated! Talk about brain washing. Why is this barbaric and evil practice allowed here? Of course there are cases where a circumcision is done for medical reasons - this is entirely different and not my point. I am discussing the forced religious practice.

I realize Germany has a lot wrong with it, but regarding this (and scientology) they have it right. Who are YOU to say I should have my genitals mutilated because your God demands it? How disgusting and absurd. It is one practice of religion that cannot in any way be argued as "making sense", even from a faith based claim. It is tortuous, dangerous, and an act of violence against someone who cannot make that decision for themselves. It is a "marking" by those who are forcing their will and beliefs upon those who cannot fight back. It is sadistic and shows how long we have to go.

"The religious freedom of the parents and their right to educate their child would not be unacceptably compromised, if they were obliged to wait until the child could himself decide to be circumcised," the court added.

Text"The body of the child is irreparably and permanently changed by a circumcision," the court said. "This change contravenes the interests of the child to decide later on his religious beliefs."

"Unlike many politicians, the court has not allowed itself to be scared off by charges of anti-Semitism or religious intolerance," added Putzke.

Germany Sees Through Circumcision

ColoradoJens

edit on 27-6-2012 by ColoradoJens because: (no reason given)

ColoradoJens,

The German people have got a great president. I like her- but they killed a bunch of people shortly before I was born. Like six million people! No way I am going to take Germans seriously on their take of RELIGION> hah! Actions speak louder than words (mass murder) and penis' get infected when they aren't cleaned.

Originally posted by Dookie Master
reply to post by Blaine91555

 

I also thought about African tribal scarring and some other indigenous peoples painful rights of passage. I did not necessarily think about other posters being anti-semitic or anti-religious.

Some of the discussion is completely leaving out the fact that this is a law developed to directly affect peoples religious belief. I myself only thought about the ramifications of health for the infant. I am glad to read that posters are recognizing that this is also an attack on religious beliefs.

I'm sure that rational people with good intent will see it as an attack on cultural and religious beliefs. There are so many attacks on religious and cultural beliefs here at ATS, I'd imagine people get to the point they stop bothering to post their thoughts. What's the point. I picked up a saying a while ago I can't seem to shake; "you can't fix stupid" (don't know where I got that) and one of my first thoughts on the bigots and not so veiled bigoted remarks we see is: You can't fix hate.

reply to post by muzzleflash


your an adult...when you got your piercings...equals choice with an educated mind, something a child is absent of.

Originally posted by bigcountry08
reply to post by ColoradoJens

 

cutting foreskin off for the name of your beliefs: Genital mutilation, barbaric and evil practice
stabbing a child in the ear just to put some metal in them for show : vain and silly
You're so full of double standards it's not even funny, what we have here is an anti religious fanatic, who if he woke up tomorrow would dance in the streets if religion became illegal. I'm sorry if some jerk who called himself a Christian some time in your life hurt you, but that's not my fault, be mad at him not the rest of us.

You go girl. Someday we gotta make them a religion too. The religion of penis and vagina worship. Here give them a book and set them in a group! Then they can be targets too.

Originally posted by ColoradoJens

Originally posted by MeesterB
I'm circumcised and every girl I've been with has loved it... sooo... nbd.
But yeah! Teach those religious types a lesson! Don't let them have anything! muhahahahahaha

Say what? How is mutilating your gentials in any way a moral thing to do to someone? I too am circumcised but I can tell you both you and I had no say in it.

CJ

edit on 26-6-2012 by ColoradoJens because: (no reason given)

Lmao what a ridiculous statement, I'm circumcised by choice, how do you know he wasn't.

Second, name me ONE downside of circumcision? I have yet to find one, though I doubt I ever will as I can't come up with anything.

reply to post by Blaine91555


what you see on ATS, do you view it as expanding your knowledge and education, as a hobby researcher, or do you respond to opinion by what your taught and dont budge?

i weight many facets of content before developing or calculation an opinion by analysis.

Originally posted by Crakeur

When the totalitarian state comes, y'all will be the first in line for the new badge.

I'm not a Jewish person, but as a fellow inhabitant of this planet; Amen Brother.

They chip, chip, chip away at freedom one thing at a time and the sheep say yes sir, may I have another.

Eventually they will be the target themselves. Soon, very soon. ....and who will stand behind them, when they so easily stand against freedom now? Freedom is very rare in history and they throw it away so easily. I'm almost glad I'm old enough I won't see the time when the State takes complete control.

Freedom is for everyone, or nobody at all.

reply to post by charles1952


Circumcision is painful and in all but a few cases, medically unnecessary. There are dozens of instances of circumcision going wrong and the child is left with either a disfigured penis or no penis at all. There is one famous case where after a bungled circumcision the Dr's had to remove the whole penis and they then advised the parents to raise the child as a girl with devastating consequences for the child. So your claim that there is no lasting harm is wrong, there are mistakes and they range from slight mishaps to complete removal of the penis.

As parents we try to do the best that we can for all children and there is absolutely no way I would have allowed my son to be circumcised when he was born, fortunately here in the UK it is a lot rarer than in the US and other parts of Europe. If my son (he is now 20) told me he wanted to be circumcised as an adult I would say "its your body, if that is what you want".

It has long been the hypothesis of scholars that circumcision in certain parts of the world would be sensible as I believe than sand under the foreskin can cause serious pain and infections, so if you a member of a tribe in a desert reason then it could have made sense.

From a religious viewpoint it does seem ridiculous that if God made man in his own image he gives men a foreskin and them tells them he wants them to remove it. What is God doing with all these foreskins ?

I worked in a clinic where men could have this done and even the Dr's that carried out the procedure admitted there was very little evidence that it gave any health benefits but it was a big money earner. That is one of the reason that Dr's in the US push the procedure, it is quick, fairly low risk (but still risky) and a guaranteed money spinner for them.

As for the aesthetics, speaking as a woman who has seen numerous penises in the flesh (so to speak) and none of them are exactly what you would call "attractive" they do a job and are perfectly designed either by evolution or divine creation for their purpose. I don't want too be to blunt but when you think of where its going does it really matter if it looks "pretty" or not. If nature or God decided it should come with a foreskin it should be left in place unless it is medically necessary to remove it.

I am not sure what you would tell a child whose penis has been damaged beyond repair when he asks why you put him through an unnecessary procedure "oh son we just thought the Doctor needed the money or we wanted to make your man bits more attractive or God told someone thousands of years ago he had changed his mind about foreskins and wanted them removed or there was no good reason, everyone else was having it done to their son and we just went with the crowd".

reply to post by ColoradoJens


So you can't circumcise a Jewish child but you can abort that same child a few months earlier , talk about hypocrisy. That guy Hitchins has already met his maker but the dog keeps howling .

Originally posted by bigcountry08
reply to post by ColoradoJens

 

cutting foreskin off for the name of your beliefs: Genital mutilation, barbaric and evil practice
stabbing a child in the ear just to put some metal in them for show : vain and silly
You're so full of double standards it's not even funny, what we have here is an anti religious fanatic, who if he woke up tomorrow would dance in the streets if religion became illegal. I'm sorry if some jerk who called himself a Christian some time in your life hurt you, but that's not my fault, be mad at him not the rest of us.

Again, an earpiecing grows over. Your foreskin does not. Yes, cutting off foreskin is, by definition, genital mutilation, which is nothing other than barbaric. Please explain how this is a double standard. Are you then for the selling of women (old testament) and slaves, burning people at the stake when they disagree with your religious laws? All of these were ok with the church at one time until they realized how absurd and dangerous these immoral acts were and are. See, religion changes with the times. And it is high time to stop this. It is ok for a religious person to see wrong with the laws MAN has made in Gods name - as a matter of fact, it is their duty as God gave you free will. It is simply a matter of strpping out of your religious fog. Funny thing, you have no idea as to who I am or what education in religion I have, but the last card of defense is this - you hate religion so lalalalala...what I hate is the idea it is ok to do something immoral regardless if it is the state or church.

CJ

reply to post by majel42


scholars claim that it the brothers were not both circumsized, paul was, jesus wasnt or viceversa, maybe one was touched,maybe not by god maybe an uncle lol. maybe jesus saw the pain, the agony, and choose a different direction in life which gave birth to christians. or its just a symbol that separates us both, deliberately.

Originally posted by Blaine91555

Originally posted by Crakeur

When the totalitarian state comes, y'all will be the first in line for the new badge.

I'm not a Jewish person, but as a fellow inhabitant of this planet; Amen Brother.

They chip, chip, chip away at freedom one thing at a time and the sheep say yes sir, may I have another.

Eventually they will be the target themselves. Soon, very soon. ....and who will stand behind them, when they so easily stand against freedom now? Freedom is very rare in history and they throw it away so easily. I'm almost glad I'm old enough I won't see the time when the State takes complete control.

Freedom is for everyone, or nobody at all.

Are you an anarchist? Would you prefer sharia law? What freedom are you speaking of? The mandate from some religion that tells you to mutilate your babies genitals? Do you not believe in laws of any kind? Why is it so hard to say yes, we can have circumcision, but only when that person is of age to make a decision for themself? Who is that hurting?

CJ

Originally posted by majel42
reply to post by charles1952

 

Circumcision is painful and in all but a few cases, medically unnecessary. There are dozens of instances of circumcision going wrong and the child is left with either a disfigured penis or no penis at all. There is one famous case where after a bungled circumcision the Dr's had to remove the whole penis and they then advised the parents to raise the child as a girl with devastating consequences for the child. So your claim that there is no lasting harm is wrong, there are mistakes and they range from slight mishaps to complete removal of the penis.

As parents we try to do the best that we can for all children and there is absolutely no way I would have allowed my son to be circumcised when he was born, fortunately here in the UK it is a lot rarer than in the US and other parts of Europe. If my son (he is now 20) told me he wanted to be circumcised as an adult I would say "its your body, if that is what you want".

It has long been the hypothesis of scholars that circumcision in certain parts of the world would be sensible as I believe than sand under the foreskin can cause serious pain and infections, so if you a member of a tribe in a desert reason then it could have made sense.

From a religious viewpoint it does seem ridiculous that if God made man in his own image he gives men a foreskin and them tells them he wants them to remove it. What is God doing with all these foreskins ?

I worked in a clinic where men could have this done and even the Dr's that carried out the procedure admitted there was very little evidence that it gave any health benefits but it was a big money earner. That is one of the reason that Dr's in the US push the procedure, it is quick, fairly low risk (but still risky) and a guaranteed money spinner for them.

As for the aesthetics, speaking as a woman who has seen numerous penises in the flesh (so to speak) and none of them are exactly what you would call "attractive" they do a job and are perfectly designed either by evolution or divine creation for their purpose. I don't want too be to blunt but when you think of where its going does it really matter if it looks "pretty" or not. If nature or God decided it should come with a foreskin it should be left in place unless it is medically necessary to remove it.

I am not sure what you would tell a child whose penis has been damaged beyond repair when he asks why you put him through an unnecessary procedure "oh son we just thought the Doctor needed the money or we wanted to make your man bits more attractive or God told someone thousands of years ago he had changed his mind about foreskins and wanted them removed or there was no good reason, everyone else was having it done to their son and we just went with the crowd".

Well said ma'am. Very succinct and fair rationing overall

Originally posted by technologicalsingularity
so why are those parents who force this devil worshiping act

I'll let this quote from you suffice for the answer to your post above.

Hate is easy to spot.

reply to post by karen61057


I'm a woman.

Did you look at his hands, and then at his yoohoo?

Anyway, I read this book by Joseph Heller, "God Knows." It is narrated in David's voice, and he (David) sees the future unfold. In the book he (David) is furious that he's uncircumcised and depicted so small, in Michealangelo's statue.

It's not that I go looking for things large or small, it's just this thread reminded me of the book, so I Googled comments on the statue not being circumcised and linked it in the thread.

reply to post by Destiny10


That is funny considering the subject. Does religion not dictate to you and affect your life by telling you all about your sex life? They have "rules" about the subject and even go so far as to cut your genitals with a knife. Jesus couldn't even have been born though a birth canal - that should tell you what the church thinks of your sexual organs. Virgin Mary indeed.

CJ