It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

"If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon." - Obama. What the MSM isn't telling you.

page: 55
78
<< 52  53  54    56  57  58 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 01:55 AM
link   
reply to post by majesticgent
 


You said you were going to jump the guy, now it is a totally different situation you describe.

If they ask you "where are you going?' you tell them to a friends house, and ask them why they are asking. Chance are, that will clear things up right away, unless the guy plans on mugging you.

If they start to get to close, you tell them to stay out of your space.

If worst comes to worst, hit em with the pepper spray and the taser, and then beat feet to your friends house, hollering all the way.

Or just scream "back off", and put your hands up in self defense. If he keeps coming, then you start fighting.




posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 01:59 AM
link   
reply to post by butcherguy
 


I actually said this.


If you follow that person you are presenting a confrontation. That's like walking up on a cornered dog and not expecting that dog to bite you.


'You' being a hypothetical figure, 'that person' also being a hypothetical figure.

Walking up on a cornered dog was to illustrate the aforementioned hypothetical person who lacks foresight to see likely effects of their actions which was the cause to capture the attention and show strong effect for the point I'm trying to illustrate.

I mentioned it in this post because I was responding to another post in the thread...



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 02:03 AM
link   

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by majesticgent
 

If worst comes to worst, hit em with the pepper spray and the taser, and then beat feet to your friends house, hollering all the way.

Or just scream "back off", and put your hands up in self defense. If he keeps coming, then you start fighting.


I said jumping the guy because I was being the "devil's advocate" against my own point saying that Martin "did attack Zimmerman"

Now if you pepper sprayed the follower, would the follower be justified in shooting you according to the stand your ground law as an act of self defense for you pepper spraying them, or are you justified in pepper spraying the follower because you felt threatened?


edit on 25-3-2012 by majesticgent because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-3-2012 by majesticgent because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 02:13 AM
link   
reply to post by majesticgent
 


reply to post by poet1b
 


Zimmerman in his late 20 's should have had enough common sense and maturity to have laid back and kept a eye from a distance while the cops were en-route.

He observed Martin do NO CRIME! Therefore it was not a life or death matter that needed to be pursued. It wasn't like he saw Martin attack someone or stealing property.

Despite being 5"9 he was 240-50 lbs and much bigger than the 140 lb Martin. And Martin doesn't weigh close to 200 lbs the kid was a twig.

Their is no way you can tell me that little skinny guy was gonna beat Zimmerman to death especially before someone intervened. I wont buy that in a 100 years.


No one knows who touched who first. Did Zimmerman go to the hospital or was a ambulance called? Not that im aware of,, all he got was a bloody nose. That does not justify putting a bullet in someones chest.

From the 911 call you could tell Zimmerman was frustrated and gung ho about not letting who he thought was a perp get away :/ More than likely he followed the boy and tried to detain him and it turned into a physical fight.

The simple facts are:

1) A unarmed teenager not observed breaking any laws was killed by a much older and larger male armed with a handgun

2) If Zimmerman had just waited for the cops all of this could have been avoided.


I know his dad used to be a judge and he must have some connections in the local police department.

Without a shadow of a doubt here in NC , if i shot someone under the same circumstances they would have investigated me and id probably be under the jail cell right now.

Slice it, dice it , spin it all you want. One got a simple bloody nose and is still breathing and someone who didn't break any laws got a bullet to the chest and wont see tomorrow.

Bottom line, if you wanna play superman or texas ranger and run up on somebody questioning them when you have no authority or evidence to do so be able to handle yourself without a gun if the person you run up on is unarmed and dont feel like being harassed by someone with ZERO authority..

Im sorry their are very few cases i can justify shooting a unarmed teenager, esp someone 80 lbs lighter ..
edit on 25-3-2012 by ker2010 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 02:19 AM
link   
Trayvon would be like Obama's son because....

Obama's son would be a thug, would pull the race card, would want sympathy as a strategy, would lash out at non-black society, would deal drugs and lie, cheat and steal from America, etc. Add on as you find necessary. The whole thing stinks to high heaven.

Obama is desperate for re-election. The leftist Media is race baiting and begging for racial division and violence.



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 02:26 AM
link   
reply to post by majesticgent
 


I think this is a case of a situation that could have went a lot better, that turned tragic. Sounds like Trayvon was scared, not willing to admit he was scarred, and maybe responded violently, leading to his death.

Zimmerman was most likely trying to protect his neighborhood, confronted this young man, wound up getting his but whipped, and pulled out the gun and shot the young man. Maybe Zimmerman got too physical and started the fight, and if that is the case, he should face some sort of manslaughter charges.

I think that if Trayvon had answered Zimmerman's question, "What are you doing here", with "Going to my Dad's girlfriends house", everything would have been alright.

People forget that the young black kid might just be acting out of fear. Give them their space, act calm. Acting calm does two things, it calms the other person, and it makes them think you know what you are doing, and in control.


About the pepper spray, follow up with the taser, so they can't shoot you. By the time they get up from being tasered, you should be too far away for their blind ass to shoot you. At least the pepper spray and taser aren't lethal.



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 02:36 AM
link   
reply to post by poet1b
 


Cool. I'm glad that you're seeing both sides of the story now.



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 02:47 AM
link   
reply to post by ker2010
 


Zimmerman sounds like he has a weight problem, and would not be threatening to a young guy six inches taller. Being heavy like Zimmerman is not an advantage in a fight, or intimidating. I would have put my money on Trayvon. Quick beats fat Monday through Saturday, and twice on Sundays. From what we have read, I would be right.

I get nothing from the call that says Zimmerman planned on attempting to detain Trayvon, or do anything more than keep an eye on him until the police arrived.

When you are on your back getting your face punched in by someone you think is criminal, pulling out your gun and shooting that person out of fear for your life is reasonable, and justifiable, unless you started the fight. You have a right to fear for your life in a situation like that.

Zimmerman had the right to follow Trayvon to keep an eye on him, and to question his reason to be in the neighborhood.

Neighborhood watches are acceptable, and they should have the right to watch people, follow them, and question someone if they think that person is suspicious.

It is a real tragedy that this young man is dead.

The answer isn't to put Zimmerman in prison, unless it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman started the fight.

The real answer is to teach young people to answer someone in such a situation, honestly within reason. Call the police if they can, and run away rather than attempt to fight the person. You don't have the right to attack someone who asks why you are in a gated community, or anyone for simply asking a question. Trayvon didn't want to run away. Sounds like he chose to fight.



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 03:25 AM
link   
post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 03:40 AM
link   

Originally posted by XXX777
reply to post by poet1b
 


You are correct.

But remember, Trayvon a thug, he black, the President black (half Jewish, half African Muslim), black youth got a right to do whatever they want to do. Black youth never listened to Malcolm. They never understood that they could not do what they want to do if what they want to do is not the right thing to do. They racist. They sell white girl and trees. They thuggin. They listen to real crack music. They harder than hard. They realer that real.

Trayvon in thug heaven now. He good. He home now.


What kind of garbage is this post? Are you being ironic?



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 03:49 AM
link   
reply to post by ker2010
 


wow ok....

So you suppose a lot and make up your own facts?

have you NOT seen a much lighter, younger, faster man beat on someone else heavier and older?

seems to me thats more the IDEAL situation to take someone on

Give me a break man.........
edit on 25-3-2012 by ManBehindTheMask because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 04:30 AM
link   

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by ker2010
 


Zimmerman sounds like he has a weight problem, and would not be threatening to a young guy six inches taller. Being heavy like Zimmerman is not an advantage in a fight, or intimidating. I would have put my money on Trayvon. Quick beats fat Monday through Saturday, and twice on Sundays. From what we have read, I would be right.


I do agree with you on this point and it certainly appears that Martin was getting the best of Zimmerman. However, I saw another post in another thread that claims the witness to the "fight" has recanted and claims he was lead by Police Officers in his earlier statement. Supposedly now he claims it was Zimmerman on top of Martin. Of course, this is complete hearsay. I have asked for a source to this claim and have yet to see one produced.


I get nothing from the call that says Zimmerman planned on attempting to detain Trayvon, or do anything more than keep an eye on him until the police arrived.


I am on the fence about weather or not Zimmerman planned to detain Martin. I do believe that Zimmerman did not have any intention of killing Martin. That being said, neither point is relevant in a case of involuntary manslaughter. The death of Martin may not have been his intention, but it was Zimmerman's actions that caused the chain of events which lead to Martin's death and that is the legal definition of Involuntary Manslaughter.


When you are on your back getting your face punched in by someone you think is criminal, pulling out your gun and shooting that person out of fear for your life is reasonable, and justifiable, unless you started the fight. You have a right to fear for your life in a situation like that.

On the surface I agree with you. However is it still justified if it was your actions that escalated the situation into a physical confrontation? I would suggest it is not.


Zimmerman had the right to follow Trayvon to keep an eye on him, and to question his reason to be in the neighborhood.


Here I agree and disagree. I agree that Zimmerman had a right to watch Martin. Zimmerman did not have a right to question Martin. Questioning Martin about why he is there is the job of Police, not of a private citizen. Keeping that in mind, in order for Zimmerman to question Martin, Zimmerman had to make contact with Martin. So if he was told not to follow Martin, what makes anyone think it is a good idea to make contact and question him?


Neighborhood watches are acceptable, and they should have the right to watch people, follow them, and question someone if they think that person is suspicious.


I support neighborhood watches. That being said, you do not have a right to question someone whom you believe is suspicious. The job of a neighborhood watch is to "watch". It's the keyword in the term. It is the job of those involved to observe and report activity. That is where it ends. Once you step into questioning people, you are doing the job of law enforcement. This point is not even up for debate. I have shown the evidence of this point numerous times in this thread and I will do so again.

Chris Tutko, director of Neighborhood Watch for the National Sheriffs' Association, said Zimmerman broke some cardinal rules.

First, he approached a stranger he suspected of wrongdoing.

"If you see something suspicious, you report it, you step aside and you let law enforcement do their job," Tutko said. "This guy went way beyond the call of duty. At the least, he's overzealous."

Source

So this is not simply my opinion, but also the opinion of the director of Neighborhood Watch for the National Sheriffs' Association. I think we both can agree that he would be in a better position than you are I make such a statement.


It is a real tragedy that this young man is dead.


Agreed.


The answer isn't to put Zimmerman in prison, unless it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman started the fight.


I disagree. Zimmerman's action created the chain of events which lead to the death of Martin. This falls under the legal definition of Involuntary manslaughter which I have proven in a previous post. For another example of this we can look towards the Kelly Thomas case and the arrest of Officer Ramos.

[quote[The real answer is to teach young people to answer someone in such a situation, honestly within reason. Call the police if they can, and run away rather than attempt to fight the person. You don't have the right to attack someone who asks why you are in a gated community, or anyone for simply asking a question. Trayvon didn't want to run away. Sounds like he chose to fight.

Disagree but no spac



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 04:35 AM
link   
They created this kid the same way they created all the 9/11 victims......computer software. Not the stuff you can get at Best Buy. Its a perfect ploy to draw emotion into the Obama campaign. I wonder what they'll do next?



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 05:45 AM
link   

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by MrWendal
 




What the Black Panther Party is calling for is a crime. Since this is coming from an actual organization, it even fits the legal definition of a "terrorist" organization.


Absolutely.
But will anything be done about it?


Truthfully, I doubt much will come of it. But I hope, if nothing else, somebody steps up and says "This is enough. We have to stop here." Will it happen? I'm expecting riots to come out of this. That's just me though.



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 06:12 AM
link   

Originally posted by Chalupas

Originally posted by TsukiLunar

Originally posted by Chalupas

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
I am back because I am an idiot!




An athletic, tall, young male with a history of fighting has every advantage over a short, overweight, older male


People close to Martin say that he did NOT have a history of fighting. Correct me if I am wrong. Also, Martin was very skinny.
edit on 24-3-2012 by TsukiLunar because: (no reason given)



"who u fought?"

"i know u whooped his ass doe"

Of course people close to Martin would say otherwise
edit on 24-3-2012 by Chalupas because: (no reason given)


Oh, I thought you had something like proof. Not just some kids talking crap. Was he ever arrested for fighting? Suspended? I need documentation here.


Yes. Trayvon was on a school suspension for bullying. Hence why he was visiting his father's. Will find proof and keep you updated.




He was on suspension for being late too many times. That's according to his English teacher.

English Teacher





Martin's parents kept a close eye on him, but they didn't have to be too strict, since he stayed out of trouble, Mr Collins said. However, he had recently been suspended from school for five days for tardiness, his English teacher, Michelle Kypriss, told the Orlando Sentinel. School officials did not respond to a request for comment. Martin's father was not happy and grounded the teen for the duration of the suspension. Trayvon 'knew he was wrong,' Horton said.



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 06:19 AM
link   

Originally posted by Chalupas

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by Chalupas
 





Yes. Trayvon was on a school suspension for bullying. Hence why he was visiting his father's. Will find proof and keep you updated.


According to NPR who themselves quoted the Herald, Martin was suspended from school for entering an area he was not supposed to be in.


"[He] had nonviolent behavioral issues in school, and on the day he was killed, he had been suspended for 10 days from Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School in North Miami-Dade. 'He was not suspended for something dealing with violence or anything like that. It wasn't a crime he committed, but he was in an unauthorized area [on school property],' [his father] said, declining to offer more details. ...



The point is stressed in that he was not suspended for any violent behavior.

www.npr.org...
edit on 24-3-2012 by TsukiLunar because: (no reason given)


Either way, Martin was suspended, which is what you were asking. That website is obviously biased. Their main arguement is that Martin was a "normal child".

Normal kids dont sell drugs,act like thugs, or get suspended.

You can't just over turn the evidence and law because he was a "normal kid"
edit on 24-3-2012 by Chalupas because: (no reason given)



I have to respectfully disagree. My daughter has been suspended for defending herself from bullies, yet the bullies told the school my daughter started it. She had marks, they didn't. The school put my daughter on OSS. I've had kids tell my daughter if she shows up for school, they'll cut her head off. Yet nothing was done about the student, AND they weren't removed from the bus. Not to mention, the school refused to put her on another bus and when I threatened a lawsuit and her guidance counselor helped the school see the light about putting her on another bus away from that particular student. The school wrote up the guidance counselor for being "too involved in a student's life". So please, don't take suspensions as a reason to die, or as proof they're a bad kid.



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 06:54 AM
link   
reply to post by TsukiLunar
 


He was on private property.




posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 07:00 AM
link   

Originally posted by GhostLancer
reply to post by popsmayhem
 

The 9-1-1 call is the only reliable evidence in this case so far. An "eyewitness" account is nothing more than he-said/she-said.


BS.... You people who want to hang whitey
can try and hang onto your BS all you want
but a key eye witness testimony is not he/said
she/said, what you guys are going on about,
what treyvons mom is going on about, the g/f,
the lawyers, ALL HEARSAY..

The only real credible evidence is the people
who saw what happened, like this eye witness.


A eyewitness is one who testifies what they perceived through his or her senses (e.g. seeing, hearing, smelling, touching). A hearsay or he said she said witness, is one who testifies what someone else said or wrote or thinks.
en.wikipedia.org...

Go on all you want Zimmerman is innocent and this
smoking gun eye witness saw it all go down..

Why zimmerman has not been arrested, charged, or anything,
because he is innocent.. STOP THE HANG WHITEY MENTALITY
HE DID NOTHING WRONG!

HE ACTED in self defense, treyvon bullied his last victim that night.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 25-3-2012 by popsmayhem because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 07:05 AM
link   
reply to post by popsmayhem
 


You don't know what hearsay is and the "eyewitness" missed most of the event and only saw the end when getting upstairs. What the girlfriend heard on the phone is not hearsay, it is what she directly heard as in your own description of what ISNT hearsay and is direct experience.

P.S. who the hell is whitey in this particular scenario? Wait.. do you think Zimmerman is a white guy?

edit on 25-3-2012 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 07:11 AM
link   
reply to post by poet1b
 


Not willing to admit he was scared? What kind of thinking is that?
If some creeper tried to detain you for no reason and with no right after stalking you you would be scared and fight the detainment. Fighting to save your life is not being unwilling to admit fear. Ever hear of fight or flight?



new topics

top topics



 
78
<< 52  53  54    56  57  58 >>

log in

join