Robert Gates: Israel an ungrateful ally

Israel is all about take take take ,and the anti Semitic or the Holocaust card that gets played anytime they don't wanna hear the truth is getting very old now.

Poor old Israel always getting picked on ,Israel is never in the wrong (sarcasm)

The Irony is the foreign aid is not to help the people of Israel ,but to increase their weapon stocks.

When was the last time you see Israel sending in troops to Afghanistan or Iraq or doing peacekeeping duty's around the world ,no its all about Israel Israel Israel ...The world doesn't revolve around Israel Mr Netanyahu.

Its about time the Americans started speaking out about Israel ,and fair play to turkey as well ,the world has had enough of Israel and its selfish ways and arrogance.

Time to grow up Israel ,and stand on your own to feet ,instead of standing behind america ,giving it the large one to anyone who disagrees with you.

reply to post by TheMaverick


Yeah, who says there were no Israelis among the special units of the US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan ???

Tell me....when IS American going to stand on his two hind legs without support of other nations?

I hate David Duke, and most, if not all of what he says is retarded.
But this video, he's gathered good info.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by TheMaverick

 

Yeah, who says there were no Israelis among the special units of the US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan ???

Tell me....when IS American going to stand on his two hind legs without support of other nations?

edit on 6-9-2011 by bluemirage5 because: (no reason given)

Are you serious! You must be joking!



I don't support most American foreign policy, but their military is a force to be reckoned with. To say they need to "to stand on their two hind legs without the support of other nations" is laughable. Did you read what you posted before you submitted?

There is so much irony in your post I quoted I don't know where to begin. The most obvious being that Israel is still an infant nursing off of mother America. And you tell America to stop depending on other countries?

ZING!

America long ago wrote a check, on behalf of the American people. At this point the Israeli's are entitled to our 'support.' You may or may not disapprove of the conduct of their government, or even their people, but that is a moot point.

www.whitehouse.gov...

((Edit to add: Oddly the text of the speech once prominently displayed has been 'moved' or something. - I'm sure the truly interested can locate it with a bit of navigating)) - Apologies.

President Bush, our key representative in international affairs at the time made clear that we will always stand by Israel... he spoke as the American voice.. which has not been reversed in any way... save the apparent posturing of our current administration....

The alliance between our governments is unbreakable, yet the source of our friendship runs deeper than any treaty. It is grounded in the shared spirit of our people, the bonds of the Book, the ties of the soul.
...
I have touched the Western Wall, seen the sun reflected in the Sea of Galilee, I have prayed at Yad Vashem. And earlier today, I visited Masada, an inspiring monument to courage and sacrifice. At this historic site, Israeli soldiers swear an oath: "Masada shall never fall again." Citizens of Israel: Masada shall never fall again, and America will be at your side.

That certain political appointees and others manifest their reticence both verbally and sometimes with more or less subtlety and or zeal should be no surprise since this is a country of WWE-style politics.

What isn't clear to me is what exactly we, as Americans, were to expect of Israel in return for the perpetual support of their revenue stream and the free-use of our rapidly diminishing 'global influence' to intimidate her neighbors into some form of 'polite' coexistence? ... Apparently, Mr. Gates has some ideas in mind, though what they are is not really articulated beyond the usual political tripe...

All in all this seems like more political fodder for partisan arguments about issues sure to rile the population of our country without actually addressing any of our problems at home.... but that's just me.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


I'm not joking

You alleged Israel did'nt help the USA during their invasions in to Iraq and Afghanistan; if you say so!

How many American businesses and corporations exploit Asian and South American nations and their workers for mega profits? I can list your worst offenders; shall I start with child labour?

How many export trade deals did your nation make by bullying poor nations from making a profit?

And how about the black market arms trade? Mexico ring a bell? Africa? The Middle East?

And what about the illegal drug market your Govt, CIA and military are involved in? Last time I checked they are the largest drug cartel in the world. Mexico ring a bell? How did the Chilean Customs work out for you?

What goes around, comes around my friend! I don't know a nation anywhere in the world your Govt has'nt screwed over for $$$.

The USA do NOT call the shots in Israel; Israel calls the shots for Israel. Got it?

reply to post by bluemirage5

Yeah, who says there were no Israelis among the special units of the US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan ???

Interesting. I did'nt know Israeli soldiers fought alongside US in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Source?

reply to post by bluemirage5

You alleged Israel did'nt help the USA during their invasions in to Iraq and Afghanistan; if you say so!

I never alleged anything remotely close to that. You are either making up lies or are truly delusional. Please point out where I alledged this. Looks like you might need to reread my posts.

In fact your most recent response to my post had nothing to do with the topic in he OP or my post whatsoever. I will probably get this post removed due to being off topic. I guess that's what I get for taking the troll bait LOL.

Oh, btw, maybe you should provide a source to your claim that Israeli special forces served with US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. You have a habit or making ridiculous claims with no evidence to back it up.

Originally posted by On the level
It is shocking that they not only have taken Billions from the American tax payer...

From the US government? Yes. From the American taxpayer? Not so sure.

Considering that a significant part of US government's expenditure comes from debt, how exactly do you determine which of that expenditure is from taxes and which from the debt? If and when the US government repays all the debt, you can retrospectively say all the expenditure, including the foreign aid, came from tax payers. Until then it remains an inaccurate statement to say that the taxpayers are footing the foreign aid or any other specific part of the expenditure.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by proteus33

 

And you have the audacity to come in here and deem yourself a good Christian?

You and the UN did'nt push the European Jews in to Israel; they were already immigrating there during and after WW2 because your forefathers sat on your arses and did nothing while Nazi Germany was rounding up the Jews and forcing them at gunpoint in to Nazi Concentration Camps.

The right thing was to invite them in to your nations? Ship loads of starving Jewish refugees were turned back from your nations, your country REFUSED to allow them to dock! So tell me, where else where they expected to go? Would you prefered they all drowned out at sea? Many of them did thanks to your lot!

Whoa, hate filled rhetoric much?

Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by proteus33

 

And you have the audacity to come in here and deem yourself a good Christian?

You and the UN did'nt push the European Jews in to Israel; they were already immigrating there during and after WW2 because your forefathers sat on your arses and did nothing while Nazi Germany was rounding up the Jews and forcing them at gunpoint in to Nazi Concentration Camps.

The right thing was to invite them in to your nations? Ship loads of starving Jewish refugees were turned back from your nations, your country REFUSED to allow them to dock! So tell me, where else where they expected to go? Would you prefered they all drowned out at sea? Many of them did thanks to your lot!

Whoa, hate filled rhetoric much?
You want tolerance and respect, are you prepared to extend that to others?

Just about everything said in this thread could also apply to .... France.

-Billions of US aid since WWII. Check.

-The role of "ungrateful ally." Check.

-Lecturing the US president on world history and America's "proper role." Check.

-National Anthem with racist lyrics regarding wading in our enemies' "impure" blood. Oops; that's just France. (seriously; check out the lyrics to La Marseillaise sometime!)

-intervening in the affairs of non-belligerent states. Check. (Read about the Cote D'Ivoire this year, and about France's use of enhanced interrogation techniques for humanitarian goals.....)


hmm. Maybe it's more about the trope of the "ungrateful ally" in popular US culture, than it is the target of the venom...

PS. I am not an anti-Francist. Or a Francophobe. Or whatever it's called. I love to eat snails and frog-legs and eels and ox-tails and lamb's brain. And whole birds. And cheese that's-being-eaten-by-tiny-mites (mimolette!) Oh, and horses too. Yum.

reply to post by dr_strangecraft



The country of France was not founded by displacing an entire population living there for generations.
"France" is not brutalizing the population of the people who were living there for generations before the "french" showed up.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by dr_strangecraft

 

The country of France was not founded by displacing an entire population living there for generations.
"France" is not brutalizing the population of the people who were living there for generations before the "french" showed up.

edit on 6-9-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

Jews have lived on "the holy land"(more like cursed land) for thousands of years before christianity or islam was even born so take your BS somewhere else! Palestine was never an official country to begin with and the Balfour Declaration gave a certain amount of land to the expatrioted jews living in europe and throughout the world, along with the jews residing in the area loosely known as palestine, the nation of Israel.

Some people may have been forcefully evicted but many others choose to SELL their property to the influx of refugees, so its kind of silly to say "displacing and brutalizing an entire population". The nazis of germany were much better in this domain.

I find it utterly perplexing and perposterous how so many imperialist americans and europeans, who have a habit of corporate wars, have the sheer audacity from unbelievable ignorance and daily mainstream propaganda, to label Israel as a paraih state.

I guess when your desperate to find a scapegoat to blame all the world's ill on then you can put it all on zionism. As though people understand what zionism is to begin with. They don't even understand their own history and how their nations came to exist.

We still live in the dark ages with great evil in the works, except its underground and thus difficult to detect. Someone is pulling the strings and its not the jews. Look harder and you may find!

Oh god, here we go again.

Its everyone's fault that this happened.

Disclaimer; I might have some views that oppose your own, if you might suspect that I may in fact be one of those dirty anti-semites, you might as well skip these next few lines, as no matter what I will be wrong to you.

Its not just the jews, not only the arabs, and your damn right the christians are involved in this just as much as anyone else.

Now what I think really fuels this fire storm of hate is the fact that everyone knows there is a simple answer, only problem is everyone has different simple solution, thus, making this the most complicated thing on the planet.

I will admit, I do support the Palestinians, not Hammas, but the Palestinians, just like I support my American neighbors, but not their government.

When you begin a talk for a solution, and only ever look at the past as a basis for your plans, you're bound to fail once again, as you will pick up the same flaws, and fall on the same thorn.

People need to stop bringing up the past in the argument, because all it will ever do is anger people to the point they take sides. Am I being too rational here, or am I an anti semite yet?

Listen, I know the Jews haven't exactly had it the easiest, and most likely have struggled more than most sub-groups of society. It's dreadful to think of the agression against them, both then and now.

But they are not the only ones who have struggled, and to this day, people still face the very same discrimination that had once befallen the shoulders of the Jewish people.

I understand security is very vital to both people individually and as a state, but I believe you cannot sacrifice another's security to fortify your own. I don't believe suicide bombings really fortify somones security and as we have learned is more likely to make the executor in far more danger. So what could really drive someone to the point of taking their own life for what they believe in and to display their opposition.

I can speak for myself, you couldn't do anything to convince me of killing myself, to take out innocent people and make a POLITICAL statement, not so much a religious statement. I don't think many if any, of us familiar with the western world would.

What do you really do in that situation? Well, we've seen what the Israelis have thought would work, but in my own opinion it seems like the Israeli government does not want peace and in fact are willing to destroy an entire society so that their own will persevere, just as hammas has admitted they don't wish for peace.

But my friends, this is where it hits me. The people caught in the thick, dirty, toxic lines in between two simple political ideals in between.

I don't know about you guys, but does this situation really, truly seem sustainable? Personally I would love to see one state multi religious state with a part of government seperate from religion to ensure that equality could be implemented properly (as it has been done in other countries).

When do we say, enough... Enough of the fences. Enough of the arguments. Enough of ignoring things if they don't benefit stuff. Its simple. If you have two dogs that refuse to co-operate and brawl daily, you can't expect to lock them in the same room and hope everything ends up okay, either you socialize them, or how it looks like it might go... you get rid of one, or seperate them constantly. The last option doesn't sound to sustainable.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

Palestine was never an official country to begin with and the Balfour Declaration gave a certain amount of land to the expatrioted jews living in europe and throughout the world, along with the jews residing in the area loosely known as palestine, the nation of Israel.

The people today known as "Palestinians" were living there for generations with the jewish minority there before the European jews showed up after WW2. What makes you think that Arabs need to pay for European crimes against Jews in Europe?

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

I guess when your desperate to find a scapegoat to blame all the world's ill on then you can put it all on zionism. As though people understand what zionism is to begin with. They don't even understand their own history and how their nations came to exist.

I am not blaming "all the worlds ills" on zionism... just the ills that the palestinian people are going through.
Zionism can be anything it wants, as long as its not wronging another people.

We still live in the dark ages with great evil in the works, except its underground and thus difficult to detect. Someone is pulling the strings and its not the jews. Look harder and you may find!

Oh.... its anybody else but the jews is it?

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

The people today known as "Palestinians" were living there for generations with the jewish minority there before the European jews showed up after WW2.

Indeed that is correct.

What makes you think that Arabs need to pay for European crimes against Jews in Europe?

edit on 6-9-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-9-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

I don't view it that way but european colonialism the last three centuries has changed geopolitical affairs throughout the world. The arabs are not paying a special price for anyone but at the same time that does not entitle them to a monopoly of land in the middle east.

Israel or palestine(which ever you prefer) should belong to christians, jews and muslims, especially the city of jerusalem which reflects a multicultural attitude.

I am not blaming "all the worlds ills" on zionism... just the ills that the palestinian people are going through.
Zionism can be anything it wants, as long as its not wronging another people.

I don't mean to deflect substance from what you are saying but why is everyone so sensitive to the suffering of the palestinians and not equally sensitive to the suffering of the natives of both south and north america from the european colonialists?

To undue past injustice involves upheavel and other risks. Sometimes it is best to leave things alone or at the very least be extremely careful when picking sides.

In other words what is so special about the palestinians that I have to lose sleep over? The palestinians suffer somewhat but so do jews, blacks, native americans, irish in northern ireland, turks in cyprus, hindus in sri lanka, muslims in kashmir, etc

Should we focus ONLY ON ISRAEL and why???? I apologise in advance if you are a palestinian but I suspect many people like to criticise israel because they have nothing else to worry about. Its popular to route for the underdog eventhough muslims like to kill americans and europeans every chance they get....sometimes for good reasons though...but israel is NOT one of them!

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

I don't view it that way but european colonialism the last three centuries has changed geopolitical affairs throughout the world. The arabs are not paying a special price for anyone but at the same time that does not entitle them to a monopoly of land in the middle east.

While jews were well settled in Europe, the Arabs were already living on that land for generations prior... they were entitled to that land. If you see Arabs living in that land as "monopoly" thats your subjective opinion.

Israel or palestine(which ever you prefer) should belong to christians, jews and muslims, especially the city of jerusalem which reflects a multicultural attitude.

Who decided that?
Second, there was always were a christian and jewish population in that land living without conflict in that land.... before the state of Israel was formed.

I don't mean to deflect substance from what you are saying but why is everyone so sensitive to the suffering of the palestinians and not equally sensitive to the suffering of the natives of both south and north america from the european colonialists?

Speaking for myself.... I have never expressed insensitivity to the suffering of the natives of both south and north america from the european colonialists. I dont understand why you even brought it up.

In other words what is so special about the palestinians that I have to lose sleep over? The palestinians suffer somewhat but so do jews, blacks, native americans, irish in northern ireland, turks in cyprus, hindus in sri lanka, muslims in kashmir, etc

Everybody else suffers. True.
So why make such an issue about the holocaust suffered by jews? What about everybody else who suffered genocide? What is so special about the jews?

Should we focus ONLY ON ISRAEL and why???? I apologise in advance if you are a palestinian but I suspect many people like to criticise israel because they have nothing else to worry about. Its popular to route for the underdog eventhough muslims like to kill americans and europeans every chance they get....sometimes for good reasons though...but israel is NOT one of them!

We should focus on injustice anywhere in the world... in this case, Israel is guilty of injustice towards the Palestinians.
I sympathize with the palestinian population living under Israels boots, the same way as I sympathize with the jewish population who lived under German boots,