Robert Gates: Israel an ungrateful ally

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n


While jews were well settled in Europe, the Arabs were already living on that land for generations prior... they were entitled to that land. If you see Arabs living in that land as "monopoly" thats your subjective opinion.

It is also my subjective opinion that arabs/muslims have plenty of land in the middle east and beyond, THUS they do not deserve an enclave called palestine within the current borders of Israel. I prefer a nation called Israel to honor the oldest known religion, father of both christians and muslims, run in a secular fashion. Anyone who does not like that can leave at their own expense, while those that agree should be granted Israeli citizenship and have equal rights under a new constitution.

Speaking for myself.... I have never expressed insensitivity to the suffering of the natives of both south and north america from the european colonialists. I dont understand why you even brought it up.

I brought it up because for every anti-british, anti-greek, anti-american, anti-hindu, anti-muslim thread started there is at least 1,000 anti-israeli threads popping up constantly. It seems all the hate is focused on Israel for no good reason and it also PISSES ME OFF that are so many muslim sympathisers after 3,000 americans got killed on 9-11, which this year is the 10 year anniversary.

You would expect more anti-muslim threads and more muslim hatred imo!

Everybody else suffers. True.
So why make such an issue about the holocaust suffered by jews? What about everybody else who suffered genocide? What is so special about the jews?

Maybe cause its one of the most horrific AND RECENT atrocities commited on this planet.

Just an off topic question why was wcitizen banned

Israel is an established country now, so I don't like all of the "no right to exist" stuff that people say about them. But I find it totally laughable to read comments that try to portray them as an innocent party. Their hands are just as filthy as ours, and they use lobbyists to bribe this government.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

It is also my subjective opinion that arabs/muslims have plenty of land in the middle east and beyond, THUS they do not deserve an enclave called palestine within the current borders of Israel. I prefer a nation called Israel to honor the oldest known religion, father of both christians and muslims, run in a secular fashion. Anyone who does not like that can leave at their own expense, while those that agree should be granted Israeli citizenship and have equal rights under a new constitution.

Palestine has been there since the 5th BCE. If Israel was so important to the Jews then why didn't they stay there?

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I'm not straying off your topic but i'll just say this one thing and leave it at that. Israel's isolation has been prophecied in the book of zecharia in the bible. Whats happening to them now is a part of the End Times. They are doing it to themselves and its only going to get worse. We need to go ahead and cut ties with them because they do not need our help. All those billions of dollars worth of technology, we've made them a super power in the middle east they can take care of themselves.

Originally posted by buster2010
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

It is also my subjective opinion that arabs/muslims have plenty of land in the middle east and beyond, THUS they do not deserve an enclave called palestine within the current borders of Israel. I prefer a nation called Israel to honor the oldest known religion, father of both christians and muslims, run in a secular fashion. Anyone who does not like that can leave at their own expense, while those that agree should be granted Israeli citizenship and have equal rights under a new constitution.

Palestine has been there since the 5th BCE. If Israel was so important to the Jews then why didn't they stay there?

Lol? Really? You don't know? The jews were carried off far across the Roman Empire in 71 A.D. after some radical jews rebelled and retook the Temple of Herod, and then the Romans destroyed the Temple and the city and carted off many jews to slavery. They returned in 135 A.D. for a second round and finished destroying the city of jerusalem and took the rest of the jews that escaped them in the first purge into slavery. They were scattered across the far reaches of the roman empire and many didn't even know where they were so how do you go home when you have no idea where home is and you can't tell your decendants which direction if you didn't know either?

Maybe thats why they never returned before 1948? I'm speaking of the ashkenazi jews not the sephardim, the few jews who escaped the romans are the sephardim and they have lived in that area the whole time in peace with the muslim.

reply to post by wcitizen


No it's not hate filled BS, it actually happened if you know anything about these historical events that took place between 1945 and 1946 ! Maybe you'll learn something. The world Jewish congress will never forget how our nations turned them away! Israel can not afford to trust anyone except themselves; I agree with them.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


All those billions of dollars in technology? You mean Israeli technology!!!

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


No but me thinks you don't know much about the French control over Lebanon and Algeria Best you go back to your history books! All did'nt end well for the French in Algeria!

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Correct.

Israel started buying up hoards of land in Israel from the Arabs and paid a fair dollar for the land. The Palestinian Arabs today have selective memories.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


You are quite right.....the Jews are not even at the top of the pyramid of the "powers to be" that's running the show; in fact, they are Anglo Saxon.....all of them !

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by proteus33

 

You and the UN did'nt push the European Jews in to Israel; they were already immigrating there during and after WW2 because your forefathers sat on your arses and did nothing while Nazi Germany was rounding up the Jews and forcing them at gunpoint in to Nazi Concentration Camps.

Actually they were immigrating there long before WW2 - immigration and land purchases in the 1920's and 1930's caused a lot of strife - even though they weer perfectly legal and the pand was paid for.

The right thing was to invite them in to your nations? Ship loads of starving Jewish refugees were turned back from your nations, your country REFUSED to allow them to dock! So tell me, where else where they expected to go? Would you prefered they all drowned out at sea? Many of them did thanks to your lot!

Yep - not that he zionists did themselves many favours of course - and of course when the Arab League unilaterally decided to wipe the new Israel off the map in 1948 that wasn't exactly polite.

What gets me tho, is that Israel has absorbed about the same number of Jewish refugees from around the Arab world as there were Palestinians who left or were expelled from Israel - somethign in the order of 750,000 or more.

The Arab states expropriated ex-Jewish property, and deliberateley kept the Palestinians in camps rather than use the property to compensate the refugees - purely for political purposes - Palestinian refugee problem was deliberately created as a political weapon by Arabs against Israel.

IMO the Arab role in creating the "Palestinian question" somehow gets lost in all the arguments!

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I will tell you now that i am a supporter of Israel. But do agree regarding its ungratefulness. My support is waning. There is nothing i dislike more (at the moment) than the lack of humility

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
Actually they were immigrating there long before WW2 - immigration and land purchases in the 1920's and 1930's caused a lot of strife - even though they weer perfectly legal and the pand was paid for.

Before the bandits, the British, occupied Palestine, it was not legal for land "owners" to prohibit traditional tenants from lease. Which is exactly what the European Jews who "bought" lands were doing and which is what caused the strife. Their paln was to make life unlivable for all those dependent on the land they "bought" so that they would migrate for livelihood and they can claim the territory including lands they didn't "buy" as their own. Any government of Palestine which even remotely had the interests of the natives would have refused to register such "sales". But then who can accuse the British of being anything but the most disgusting bandit scum the earth has seen?

Yeah sure, when "laws" are written by bandits for other bandits anything can be "legal".

I believe European migrants to North America also "bought" land from the natives and for a "fair price" too.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
It seems all the hate is focused on Israel for no good reason and it also PISSES ME OFF that are so many muslim sympathisers after 3,000 americans got killed on 9-11, which this year is the 10 year anniversary.

You would expect more anti-muslim threads and more muslim hatred imo!

Must be very disapponting to see that things didn't go as planned. I understand.

I mean more than a million Muslims' lives have been obliterated with 9/11 as an excuse, but I guess that is not enough. People should be hating Muslims until the last Muslim is killed or until perhaps the agenda, whatever it is, is served.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

It is also my subjective opinion that arabs/muslims have plenty of land in the middle east and beyond, THUS they do not deserve an enclave called palestine within the current borders of Israel.

.
wow . ok...

So ...having plenty of land is an excuse then Im guessing you must be ok with arabs/muslim immigrants settling in North America and Europe .... because as you know, caucasians have plenty of land in Europe and North America anyway, so thus they dont deserve to keep all the land to themselves, right?
Or does it apply only when European jews need a homeland at the expense of Arabs.


Joking aside, If arabs have plenty of land in the M.E, its only because they have been living there for generations while the jews were living in Europe in large numbers... Someone having a lot of land doesn't mean you just can just walk in and claim a piece to build your house... even if you hold the opinion that its ok.

I prefer a nation called Israel to honor the oldest known religion, father of both christians and muslims, run in a secular fashion.

Sounds noble....to want to see Jews, christians and muslims live together.
Except what you think is the father of both christians and muslims hates and mocks a certain religious figure very, very important to and honored by both the christians and muslims.

It seems all the hate is focused on Israel for no good reason and it also PISSES ME OFF that are so many muslim sympathisers after 3,000 americans got killed on 9-11, which this year is the 10 year anniversary.

The hate is focussed on the state of Israel for a good reason....
Its the same reason why a lot of hate is focussed on the Nazi regime as well.
You see, most normal people have a natural repulsion towards oppresive regimes. Israel is no exception.

You would expect more anti-muslim threads and more muslim hatred imo!

Oh, trust me.... there is a lot of hatred towards muslims... in the real world, outside of ATS and internet forums...


(sk0rpi0n- "So why make such an issue about the holocaust suffered by jews? What about everybody else
who suffered genocide? What is so special about the jews?" )

Maybe cause its one of the most horrific AND RECENT atrocities commited on this planet.

So you are basically choosing to sympathize with the suffering of one people over another. Fair enough.

You earlier said "what is so special about the palestinians that I have to lose sleep over?

So I guess one can also ask what is so special about the jews.

But I'll stick to what I said earlier...
I sympathize with the palestinian population living under Israels boots, the same way as I sympathize with the jewish population who lived under German boots.
And also I condemn the Israeli regime for the same reasons that I condemn the Nazi regime.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
We still live in the dark ages with great evil in the works, except its underground and thus difficult to detect. Someone is pulling the strings and its not the jews. Look harder and you may find!

The puppeteers are most certainly the Jews. This fact is as plain as day.

reply to post by TDawgRex


I am from Scotland mate so dont really care for anything you have mentioned, regarding being a racist, this is a typical response regarding the issue of Israel. Change the rhetoric and think about the way they have treated their neighbours and the distain they show to the west. They truly sicken me, as does most religions and imperialistic states.

Some of you people are really weird......

Are any of you even aware of how Iraqis, Afghanis and Libyans the US & NATO have killed? They make the IDF look like the good guys!

It's not ok for Israel to protect it's borders but it's ok to invade another nation and strip it of all it's wealth (oil, cash and gold reserves) regardless of how many people get killed. Israel has never done that!

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

Everyone knows the Americans are friends with you one minute then turns on you quicker than a blink of an eye. The Americans can't be trusted as an ally and everyone knows it. The American Govt are nothing more than thieves and thugs.....but Israel's thugs are bigger, more wealthier and far more powerful than Obozo and his ilk.

Netanyhau's policies are endangering Israel? How so? Israel is no more isolated today than they were back in 1948 when they became a re-established nation.

This is a prime example of lack of humility. I hope that your sentiment toward Americans aren't as rampant in Israel as your disdain is. I encourage you to humble down because America is the last country you want to add as an enemy. My fellow brothers in arm do not care how big or rich any thug is, 5.56 NATO rounds go for roughly ¢3 each. My country put you on the pedestal in which you now sit. The danger you put yourself in is that of losing our support. Oh how soon they forget. I lost family liberating you! Show some respect to the ones who have given you that which you hold dear, because it can be taken away believe it or not