JFK Not Killed by a Bullet?

reply to post by 8311-XHT


**Warning, the below image is quite gruesome but it's needed to prove my point**

When looking at the Zapruder film I had always thought the way JFK's head EXPLODED when shot just never seemed natural. Then you add to that the unliklihood of hitting that kind of shot with JFK moving so quickly as well.

In regards to the head shot.. and the "odd movement" of JFK, please have a look at this image below. It's an image of both frame 312 and 313, it's particularly important as it shows a rather odd anomaly:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8aba2ea4b4fb.gif[/atsimg]

Notice how in frame 312 and frame 313 JFK's head moves forwards, then backwards? Also notice what appears to be the malformed back of the head in frame 313? Again, also notice the movement of his shoulders compared to his head. This is, IMO, an indication of 2 shots at roughly the same time. Let's not forget as well that the majority of witnesses have the shots spaced out like so: Shot.......... Shot..Shot. In other words they reported a shot, then a pause, then 2 shots in quick succession. The majority of witnesses seemingly back up my claim of 2 shots at the same time.

It's worth noting that the warren commission is the only source which has the shots completely spaced out.

Witness Lee Bowers for example was one of those witnesses also and he and I quote claimed they were "almost on top of each other". He claims this in an interview with Mark Lane before his unfortunate death as shown here.

In regards to how fast the car was moving.. well, it wasn't fast at all. Many of the witnesses report the car slowed down to an almost stop. Mary Moorman for example, in her recent and very rare interview in fact, confirms this for us.

The speed of the car could be described as slow at best therefore it certainly does not make things tougher for a sniper from any position.

Then consider that if this was a government operation.. do you really think they would risk the job being botched and relying on such a risky attempt to kill the president by using ONLY a rifle?

Forgive me here, but why not? They tried to sell us the Lone Gunman theory, remember? If they used another type of weapon, and that was what was eventually found, then they would really have something to worry about, would they not?

For that reason, I'd assume, if anything, they would use nothing BUT rifles.

does this look like damage caused by a bullet at long range?

I'm really not trying to be difficult here but yes, to me it does look like the wound from a bullet, close and or from possibly far away. (let's not forget Dealey Plaza is a surprisingly small location as well).

Personally though, I believe that particular shot came from the Knoll which was not far away at all. Please see the story of witness Gordon Arnold at this point, you might find it particularly interesting.

a high energy beam is locked on to JFK's head.. and fired a super high intensity pulse at his head.

Ok, well, where was it fired from? And how did they manage to re-create the sound of a fun being fired? How did they manage to make it seem as though it came from the Knoll as well. The majority of witnesses, did claim the shot came from the knoll afterall....

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fdc595b42dea.jpg[/atsimg]
(Please Ignore the arrow and look at the amount of witnesses running to the knoll. )

EDIT to add another image of another angle immediately after the assassination showing people running up the knoll:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c1f13cafdbc7.jpg[/atsimg]

Witnesses did report hearing a gun at the moment the fatal shot made impact also. Again, Gordon Arnold for one should be cited at this point.

MKultra.. which was also used in these assassination attempts.

Where is there any shred of evidence which suggests MKultra was used in the JFK assassination? The RFK one I'd be more inclined to believe but certainly not JFK. Again, can you please show for us where it was?

I know this will likely be considered a looney theory.. and maybe it is..

I don't believe this theory at all, and there really is an absolute ton of questions that can be asked, or things to be considered which would make it fall apart quite easily, but all theories should at least be considered. And this is a nice thread still and I thank you for posting it. I really did have to comment on a few things you brought up still.

Thanks.

EDIT TO ADD ONCE AGAIN:

Let's also not forget that shots were heard coming from both the Grassy Knoll and somewhere behind JFK (The TSDB and the Dal-Tex building was suspected), both of these at different times of the assassination. If you're theory is indeed correct, how is at least 2 shooting positions possible?

Originally posted by 8311-XHT
For the record.. I'm not saying this was HAARP at all. There are a number of ways they could implement a direct energy weapon. I don't think 9-11 used HAARP either. It is possible the HAARP array is the large scale delivery system for the same kind of technology though.

edit on 26-6-2011 by 8311-XHT because: (no reason given)

It is. Its just a giant microwave after all.

Also, if we are getting on the subject of 9-11 then I will put my side of the story on the table. This is not about whether it was outside or inside powers.
It was a test perpetrated by TPTB to test how far they could take things before we revolted. If we took it laying down the next stage of their plan would unfold. If we called it out right away and the majority took our side then they would divert to a new plan. Every major crisis has a plan and a back up.
Another example would be fukushima. If japanese citizens stayed the plan would move forward. If they would as a majority leave the country china would let them fill their ghost cities that are built in the north and that would change the plan from its current course to its back up one (I myself dont know what that would be whether its one step closer to NWO or so chins would be making a new ally so the next world war is that much bloodier). TPTB now know people will stay in the radiated areas so the plan went ahead, which I believe is the midwest nuclear reactors.

reply to post by ParanoidAmerican


Thanks for posting that PA. I wonder what range that was? I don't really know if that matters though? I agree that it is plausible it could be a gun too but I just think it is less likely. This is based off the autopsy photos I saw of JFK as well and the way the flap was oriented on JFK and where the bullet was supposed to come from.

reply to post by Rising Against


RA, thank you for the detailed response. I know there are people here like yourself that have researched this much more than myself. I certianly don't claim to be an expert on the JFK assassination or the elemtns involved in this evidence such as weapons etc. It very well could just be a rifle.. This thoery is just based off the info I have seen and read over the years and the seeming unasnwered questions of the events.

In regards to the head shot.. and the "odd movement" of JFK, please have a look at this image below. It's an image of both frame 312 and 313, it's particularly important as it shows a rather odd anomaly:

This was the image I was originally trying to link to.. hopefully it works now..

i292.photobucket.com...

To me it looked like a beam... and heating the water in the air and ejected form his head. Or maybe even just a microwave beam?

Notice how in frame 312 and frame 313 JFK's head moves forwards, then backwards? Also notice what appears to be the malformed back of the head in frame 313? This is, IMO, an indication of 2 shots at roughly the same time. Let's not forget as well that the majority of witnesses have the shots spaced out like so: Shot.......... Shot..Shot. In other words they reported a shot, then a pause, then 2 shots in quick succession. The majority of witnesses seemingly back up my claim of 2 shots at the same time.

It's definitely plausible considering the info there that that is what happened. But the problem is there seem to be so many conflicting reports and eye witness testimony can be so inaccurate it is difficult to say anything with certainty. But as I said.. I do think a gunman or gunmen were involved.. but it was just for effect. I see a direct energy weapon as an insurance policy in an event like this. Not unlike 9-11 where I feel multiple effects were used to ensure that the buildings went down and in a controlled fashion. This is what is so interesting too.. both events use a conventional excuse for the buildings going down and JFK being assasinated.. JFK used the lone guman. 9-11 uses the terroist planes.. but in reality both events rely on the super technologies to really get the job done.. maybe I am projecting though?

It's worth noting that the warren commission is the only source which has the shots completely spaced out.

Weird.. so they are trying to promote the lone gunman theory.

In regards to how fast the car was moving.. well, it wasn't fast at all. Many of the witnesses report the car slowed down to an almost stop. Mary Moorman for example, in her recent and very rare interview in fact, confirms this for us.

If that is the case I agree... but all I have is the video footage.. and the argument has always been that one person couldn't get shots off quickly enough to do the job.

The speed of the car could be described as slow at best therefore it certainly does not make things tougher for a sniper from any position.

If that was the case I definitely agree... but would the conspirators have known the car would move that slow with no protection on the back of the car? Possible.. but risky in my opinion. But again.. I really can't say what happened. This was just my theory based on what I had heard of the event and setting it up in my mind. And if our govermment did this I would think they would use methods as sophisticated and untraceable as possible.

Then consider that if this was a government operation.. do you really think they would risk the job being botched and relying on such a risky attempt to kill the president by using ONLY a rifle?

Forgive me here, but why not? They tried to sell us the Lone Gunman theory, remember? If they used another type of weapon, and that was what was eventually found, then they would really have something to worry about, would they not?

For that reason, I'd assume, if anything, they would use nothing BUT rifles.

I see what you are saying.. but this gets into the delivery system... I don't know enough about the location to know all the different methods they could use.. but consider with this type of weapon you could have someone at an unlimited range.. and you have to really use your imagination to consider the limits of this. You could even consider an aerial platform......... this would ensure getting your target in a topless car and anywhere on the route..

I'm really not trying to be difficult here but yes, to me it does look like the wound from a bullet, close and or from possibly far away. (let's not forget Dealey Plaza is a surprisingly small location as well).

But if shot from the grassy knoll would the flap move in the direstion it did? Look at frame 313 and where the "object" is projecting from the wound. Again.. hard to say.with such limited information.. this is just my interpretation. From all the footage, reports and info I have seen and read the presented theories just don't match up. This idea I came up with seemed most plausible to me.. but i guess it just depends which info you accept or find most plausible? I could see how many different people could accept totally different theories or reasoning.

Personally though, I believe that particular shot came from the Knoll which was not far away at all. Please see the story of witness Gordon Arnold at this point, you might find it particularly interesting.

What if another shooter is caught though.. again.. this really puts the conspirators in jeopardy.

Ok, well, where was it fired from? And how did they manage to re-create the sound of a fun being fired? How did they manage to make it seem as though it came from the Knoll as well. The majority of witnesses, did claim the shot came from the knoll afterall....

If this info is accurate I agree.. and I don't blame you for accepting it. I just think any witness testimony is unreliable. But maybe this is because I feel this was govenment related. I just think the government would use more sophisticated means. I believe this because the president was likely protected so well because of the climate of the cold war. Otherwise they could just use more simple means.. like with the attempted Reagan assassination attempt and other Kennedy family members... also possibly MKultra.

(Please Ignore the arrow and look at the amount of witnesses running to the knoll. )

EDIT to add another image of another angle immediately after the assassination showing people running up the knoll:

Thanks for this I hadn't seen this info I hadn't seen these pics. I will try to ponder this new info.

[quote[Witnesses did report hearing a gun at the moment the fatal shot made impact also. Again, Gordon Arnold for one should be cited at this point.

For the head wound in particular? Or the neck wound? Echos?

Where is there any shred of evidence which suggests MKultra was used in the JFK assassination? The RFK one I'd be more inclined to believe but certainly not JFK. Again, can you please show for us where it was?

I will have to dig around.. but I thought it was pretty commonly accepted that Oswald could have been a MKultra agent.. as could Ruby.. but that is what is so effective about MKultra.. you can't prove it.. it's not tracaeable. I do remember one thread on here that said many of the assassins involved in these assassination attempts all lived in some building or area at one time. Maybe this is where I made this assumption. I will try to find the thread.

Again.. I did not mean to imply I am some expert.. this was just based on the info I had seen and my own interpretation of events and the bigger picture of all this. Please bear with my specualtion or even ignorance on the matter/s.

Originally posted by itisortofthetruth
STAR AND FLAG.

I really, REALLY do not doubt this at all. As soon as a true power was established within the american government the world has been in a sort of age that i like to call, the dark golden age. The technology we have available for our use and to a much greater extent, viewing pleasure, pales in comparison and is quite laughable to what has truly been created. People get all the hand me downs to keep their minds and thoughts occupied. Your new ipad 2 with its multi-touch screen is probably 50+ years behind the tech they have now. The new sound and microwave guns they have? you guessed it 50+ years old. It could of easily of been a newer secret tech back then. The public is just laying eyes upon this tech now a days and its probably far past the 50 year mark since it has been perfected.
The reason this happens is because the slow trickle of discoveries that are made both privately and publicly are to fuel the need to spend money. If TPTB dumped everything on us at once we would probably be in shock as if we had been teleported to the future. It would also collapse their whole system.

I just wish sooner than later they let some a small stream of tech that revolutionizes the world and lets us make a small jump into the future instead of this slow monotonous period we are stuck in currently, but, alas, greed

Nicely said! And having that said, this entire Reality is here to keep us occupied, entranced and trapped also. Once we all truly see the non value of this place it will dissipate.

reply to post by 8311-XHT


Oh, I certainly don't consider myself an expert either. Very far from it in fact, lol. I'm just fascinated by the case really and I try to research it whenever possible. Reason being, I finally just want to see some truth to it, It's as simple as that.

It's for this reason why I'm grateful for this opportunity to further debate this topic with you as well.

Anyway..

Weird.. so they are trying to promote the lone gunman theory.

Yes, in fact, here's a quick list of the claims coming from the Warren Commission:

(1) The shots which killed President Kennedy and wounded Governor Connally were fired from the sixth floor window at the southeast corner of the Texas School Book Depository.

(2) The weight of the evidence indicates that there were three shots fired.

(3) Although it is not necessary to any essential findings of the Commission to determine just which shot hit Governor Connally, there is very persuasive evidence from the experts to indicate that the same bullet which pierced the President's throat also caused Governor Connally's wounds. However, Governor Connally's testimony and certain other factors have given rise to some difference of opinion as to this probability but there is no question in the mind of any member of the Commission that all the shots which caused the President's and Governor Connally's wounds were fired from the sixth floor window of the Texas School Book Depository.

(4) The shots which killed President Kennedy and wounded Governor Connally were fired by Lee Harvey Oswald.

(5) Oswald killed Dallas Police Patrolman J. D. Tippit approximately 45 minutes after the assassination.

(6) Within 80 minutes of the assassination and 35 minutes of the Tippit killing Oswald resisted arrest at the theater by attempting to shoot another Dallas police officer.

(7) The Commission has found no evidence that either Lee Harvey Oswald or Jack Ruby was part of any conspiracy, domestic or foreign, to assassinate President Kennedy.

(8) In its entire investigation the Commission has found no evidence of conspiracy, subversion, or disloyalty to the U.S. Government by any Federal, State, or local official.

(9) On the basis of the evidence before the Commission it concludes that, Oswald acted alone.

(Source)

The final outcome was Oswald acted completely alone - thus we have the "Lone Gunman Theory". But as witnesses have repeatedly claimed, the final 2 shots were incredibly close to each other thus debunking the theory (as Oswald could not have fired as quickly as they claim).

Again let me revert back to the point I made in my previous post and that was the Warren Commission were, as far as I'm aware, the one and only source whom had all 3 shots completely spaced out. I believe they did this because if was there only choice to make the theory work.

but in reality both events rely on the super technologies to really get the kjob done

The thing is, the grassy knoll shooting position is actually a very plausible theory. There is no need for any "super technology" at all. In fact, if you or I was to go to Dealey Plaza today, the one position we'd ever want to consider - assuming we was on the ground - would be this position, IMO.

It has an escape route, and it's hidden from view... well, almost from view. Here's where witness Lee Bowers was situated:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/72beb497c2c8.jpg[/atsimg]

The red circle is where lee Bowers was placed.

The white crosses indicate the positions of potential Grassy Knoll shooters. (the one to the right is where I believe the shot came from)

The black circle indicates the approximate position of Kennedy.

The blue circle is not important now.

Here's what he claimed he saw (bear in mind people on the triple overpass claimed to have seen this also):

On 22nd November, 1963, Bowers was working in a high tower overlooking the Dealey Plaza in Dallas. He had a good view of the presidential motorcade and was able to tell the Warren Commission about the three cars that entered the forbidden area just before the assassination of John F. Kennedy.

Bowers also reported seeing two men standing near the picket fence on the Grassy Knoll. He added: "These men were the only two strangers in the area. The others were workers whom I knew." Bowers said the two men were there while the shots were fired.

Mark Lane interviewed Bowers for his book Rush to Judgment (1966): "At the time of the shooting, in the vicinity of where the two men I have described were, there was a flash of light or, as far as I am concerned, something I could not identify, but there was something which occurred which caught my eye in this immediate area on the embankment. Now, what this was, I could not state at that time and at this time I could not identify it, other than there was some unusual occurrence - a flash of light or smoke or something which caused me to feel like something out of the ordinary had occurred there."

According to W. Penn Jones Jr, the editor of the Texas Midlothian Mirror, Bowers received death threats after giving evidence to the Warren Commission and Mark Lane.

On 9th August, 1966, Lee Bowers was killed when his car left the road and crashed into a concrete abutment in Midlothian, Texas. Robert J. Groden later reported "Lee Bowers was heading west here on highway sixty-seven heading from Midlothian down to Cleburne and according to an eyewitness he was driven off the road by a black car. Drove him into this bridge abutment. He didn't die immediately, he held on for four hours and during that time he was talking to the ambulance people and told them that he felt he had been drugged when he stopped for coffee back there a few miles in Midlothian."

(Source)

Here is his interview once again:



And finally, here's a thread I made discussing, in more detail, what he may have seen: Lee Bowers - A Murdered Witness

What if another shooter is caught though.. again.. this really puts the conspirators in jeopardy.

Please watch this video from Gordon Arnold. He, if he is telling the truth, almost certainly encountered the shooter(s).

Please see what Lee Bowers above claimed once again as well.

And finally, here's a zoomed in, as well as enhanced image coming from photographic experts such as Jack White for example, of the Mary Moorman photo, specifically the location near the corner of the fence on the knoll overlooking the road JFK was murdered on.

The above image coming from this exact position here.

The gentleman to the far left is possibly Witness Gordon Arnold situated in front of the fence by a few meters, and the other 2 men are possibly involved in the assassination. Badgeman (the man dressed as a police officer) appears to be in a firing position also. Arnold claimed to have his camera taken away from him by a man dressed as a policeman - possibly the man in the above image - immediately after the assassination.

Let's not forget as well, we don't know when the "patsy" was made. It could have been planned long in advance, or it could have been a last minute thing they put together as it worked with the arrest if Oswald.

To me it looked like a beam... and heating the water in the air and ejected form his head. Or maybe even just a microwave beam?

I really don't know myself, but I've always assumed this spray was simply nothing but evidence the shot came from the front and or side. I doubt it was caused by anything other than a rifle also according to what other "evidence" we have. But, I can only comment on what my opinion is and nothing more here.

I don't believe any super technology is needed to create this effect though. I believe It's even been re-created many times.

For the head wound in particular? Or the neck wound? Echos?

The head wound. And I don't believe any echoes were really heard tbh.

but woudl the conpirators have know the cvar would move that slow with no protection on the back of the car?

The car was just going around a corner therefore it was inevitably going to slow down.

But if shot from the grassy knoll would the flap move in the direstion is did?

I think so, yeah. This part of his head literally exploded wide open after all. I would expect what we see.

I just think any witness testimony is unreliable.

I couldn't agree more. But when they start to fit together with each other, and from different angles and positions, then we should certainly start to take them very seriously, and in the JFK case, this appears to occur.

I will have to dig around.. but I thought it was pretty commonly accepted that Oswald could have been a MKultra agent.. as could Ruby.. but that is what is so effective about MKultra.. you can't prove it.. it's not tracaeable. I do remember one thread on here that said many of the assassins involved in these assassiantion attempts all lived in some building or area. Maybe this is were I made this assumption. I will try to find the thread.

IMO, Oswald was nothing more than a patsy really. In fact we know for certain he was in the building at the time of the assassination, hell, he admits this himself claiming after being asked: "naturally I would be in that building" so there really isn't any dispute about him at the very least being here. Witnesses who he worked with even place him here.

But It seems as though Oswald was in no position to shoot anybody still...

When one of the police officors stormed the building immediately after the assassination, they even saw Oswald on the second floor "standing around calmly and drinking a coke". And what did that one police Officers do at this time? Yup, he pointed a gun at Oswald.

Motorcycle officer Marrion L. Baker was the one who went in and is said to have shouted at him (Oswald) and then pointed his gun. One of the other men with him (I believe he was called Roy S. Truly - the TSBD Inspector and was actually Oswalds own boss who previously ran into Baker) noticed who It was and It was only this which had seemingly caused the men to bypass the obviously shaken Oswald to proceed forward up the building only to resurface around 5-10 minutes later.

It was then upon their return, Baker immediately claimed Oswald had disappeared and called it in. Quite suspicious behaviour towards Oswald It would seem as he was a complete unknown to Baker and didn't seem to be acting suspiciously himself at this time. Around 15 others who worked here are said to have been missing at this time also I believe.

What's particularly interesting though is the timing of the events during the assassination itself. You see, a women called Carolyn Arnold is reported to have seen Oswald in the Lunch room at approximately 12:15 - 12:25. This would leave Oswald around 5 minutes (as the president was shot at approximately 12:30) for Oswald to make his way to the sixth floor, find and assemble his rifle, shoot the president of the United States 3 times, hide his weapon and then return to the second floor, have time to get his breath back, pour himself a coke and then look totally relaxed... all without anybody noticing.

Call me crazy.. but I don't buy it.

The presidential motorcade was even running slightly late as well, something Oswald could not have anticipated.

Carolyn Arnold was conveniently, along with others, left out of the Warren Commition's investigations also might I add.

Here's one of my threads showing some of my own research and personal theories (I tried to back up everything I claimed) of Lee Harvey Oswald - the innocent patsy, IMO: An Analysis Into the Mind of a Suspected Killer

In regards to Jack Ruby, well, I'm convinced he was ordered to murder Lee Harvey Oswald.

Please watch this video where he practically outs the conspiracy and places Lyndon B. Johnson as the main figure responsible:



He requested a prison move to Washington and away from Dallas at around this time. He claimed he would reveal all he knew but guess what? This move was stopped. Do you want to know who stopped this prison move? It was none other than Earl Warren - the man spearheading the warren commission.

You want to know what I found out on how he managed to obtain such a position, please read this:

After the death of John F. Kennedy in 1963 his deputy, Lyndon B. Johnson, was appointed president. He immediately set up a commission to "ascertain, evaluate and report upon the facts relating to the assassination of the late President John F. Kennedy." Johnson asked Warren if he would be willing to head the commission. Warren refused but it was later revealled that Johnson blackmailed him into accepting the post. In a telephone conversation with Richard B. Russell Johnson claimed: " Warren told me he wouldn't do it under any circumstances... I called him and ordered him down here and told me no twice and I just pulled out what Hoover told me about a little incident in Mexico City... And he started crying and said, well I won't turn you down... I'll do whatever you say."

(Source)

Now, don't you think It's the least bit suspect that the very person whom is said to have stopped Ruby from his prison move to Washington from Dallas was none other than Earl Warren himself - the man bribed by Johnson - Johnson being the man whom Ruby was hinting at outing in the first place?

I find it odd, personally.

reply to post by Rising Against


RA, you claim to not be an expert but you sure know your stuff! A ton of info there to absorb let me process it and I will respond to individual points in more detail. Let me just respond with what I am thinking now though.. I agree with you on many points you raise. I agree Oswald was patsy.. but I do have the strong feeling that Oswald could have been involved with MKultra. His behavior is just too strange. This isn't much of a source but I was watching Jesse Ventura's show on conspiracies and he claims Oswald's wife says she thought he was associated with the CIA... if he was why not make that known if he was being railrodaded? If he was taking the fall for the government why not confess and why say he is a patsy?

The other huge issue I have is with the video of the bullet hitting Kennedy's head. This is what made me come up with this theory. The grassy knoll and gunmen being there does not fit with the wound IMO. Correct me if I am wrong because I don't have this mapped out and am unsure of the info presented.. but if he was shot from there wouldn't Jackie have his brains all over her much more than she did? Wouldn't she likey have been hit by the bullet?

To me it looks like the bullet comes from the back of the car and really low. But this doesn't seem plausible. I think this is why so many are convinced someone in the car shot Kennedy. That makes more sense than the knoll or where Oswald or the shooter posing as Oswald was supposed to be, Also.. wasn't the bullet missing? If it was from the knoll shouldn't it have been in his head because ti didn't go through the other side? If it was in the back of his head shouldn't have been in the car in front of him or gone through the car?

Now I want to mention something else I had thought of before.. and this could even tie into the knoll theory and may fit perfectly with the testimony... though it may sound very ridiculous and scifi at first.

What do we always see in spy movies and even in actual spy technology>? We see everyday devices that have a secret device hidden in them.. Let's pretend you are the government devising ways of assassinating opposing governement leaders. Imagine a film or video camera that is actually a drected energy weapon in disguise. I would find this more plausible from that angle. This could even explain the flash that was mentioned by the witness in the video..the pule of energy being fired.

And to get even weirder.. what if they got even more creative.. what if you didn't use one camera in disguise... but many? What if you had several agents all targeting the same location and all of them working together had that explosive effect? I know it sounds wild and impossible.. but again.. we are talking about a government that is possibly 50 to a 100 years ahead of the general population. These things sound wild and ridiculous.. but that is why they work so well.. because no one would ever suspect them in the general poulation. And people in the military who aren't on a need to know basis don't even know what is possible. And remember what they say.. absolute power corrupts absolutely.

reply to post by 8311-XHT


According to Richard C. Hoagland, President Kennedy was murdered by Space Nazis that live on the Moon. I am assuming this was done with Hoagland's mentioned hyperdimensional torsion physics. Not trollin, true claim.

reply to post by 8311-XHT

I agree Oswald was patsy.. but I do have the strong feeling that Oswald could have been involved with MKultra. His behavior is just too strange.

Can you please point out which part of his life and behavior was just too "strange"? I'm fascinated by Oswald you see and I like to think I know more about his life than probably any other part of this case as It's a favorite research point for me. Anyway, personally, I think he was a patsy and he was working with the US government prior to 196, even prior to life in the Soviet Union, and was recruited while stationed in Atsuki, Japan. I tried to show why I believe this in my thread discussing him. Here's the link once again: An Analysis Into the Mind of a Suspected Killer

Btw, his own Wife claimed she thought he was working with the US government, and not just her either, his own mother right up until the day she died had always claimed he was an "agent".

If he was taking the fall for the government why not confess and why say he is a patsy?

This is where Jack Ruby comes in it would seem. Oswald knew he had become a patsy and he knew to much about what was really going on, IMO. Keeping him alive is simply too dangerous for those in a position to be concerned about being "outed".

but if he was shot from there wouldn't Jackie have his brains all over her much more than she did? Wouldn't she likey have been hit by the bullet?

Well, let's take a look at frame 312, a single frame before the fatal shot had struck to find out:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/bf4e71336af0.jpg[/atsimg]

To me, Jackie looks to be relatively safe as she isn't directly in any firing line. She's even in line with Adrian Zapruder at this point and the firing position is further to the right than where he's situated pushing Jackie into a much safer position away from any inconvenient shooting angle.

She was covered in blood as well btw, not so much from the impact but more so after the assassination it would seem. Reason being, the shot struck Kennedy to the right side of his head. Jackie was to his left thus being slightly shielded from the majority of it I believe.

Blood splattered everywhere, and including over Jackie, It's just not so much so that it's overly noticable on the Z-Film.

To me it looks like the bullet comes from the back of the car and really low.

Here's a link to frame 313. I won't show it as it's gruesome for some and to me, It looks like the main shot strikes the right, and to the front hand side of JFK's head as opposed to from behind and below (there is no shooting position here also - this is where the rest of the motorcade was situated).

Here's frame 314, again showing the damage centered towards the front and to the right. Subsequent frames continue to show this trend.

I think this is why so many are convinced someone in the car shot Kennedy. That makes more sense than the knoll or where Oswald or the shooter posing as Oswald was supposed to be

I see what you mean, but unfortunately, this theory completely falls down when looking at the witness testimonies - the most plausible thing to look at as not a single witness claims a shot came from inside the car. Witness after witness points to the grassy knoll. I believe even Roy Kellerman thought a shot had come from here. Bill Decker in the car in front of Kennedy certainly did as he ordered men down there immediately after the assassination if memory serves me right.

Oh, and in regards to a shot from inside the car, here's an attempt at debunking the "Greer theory" - a theory which has been a pain to see continually brought forward by many people, lol.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e3ab90b0e048.gif[/atsimg]

No gun present at all like some claim. Just the glare from the sun, glare which is fully consistent with everyone else in the car thus proving once and for all no gun was present.

wasn't the bullet missing?

Sorry, but I don't follow what you mean exactly. Can you clarify? Wait, do you mean the bullet which struck the curb and injured James Tague near the overpass?

And personally, I suspect at least 4-5 shots from at least 2-3 different shooting positions all in all.

In regards to your last 3 paragraphs, all I really have to say is, I get the impression this is being slightly "over-thought" about if that makes sense? What I mean is, this case really doesn't have to be complicated, instead, it can actually be very simple and explainable. And I've always found the solution to the most difficult of issues are almost always the simplest ones.

The theory which states something other than a bullet or a rifle was used is an interesting one, but I just get the impression it's unnecessary when the rifle and the bullet's do seem to fit perfectly with everything already - even witness testimonies from those involved with the autopsy confirm this for us it would seem. (Trust me, if one of them suspected something other than a bullet or the use of a rifle, we'd know about it).

I admire you for bringing this up though, It proves you're one who'll think "outside the box" and that you're someone who isn't afraid to bring up a theory which makes sense to you, knowing it may not to others at the same time, which I admire a lot. But I hope you respect that I don't believe these ideas brought forward still. I feel as though the simplest explanations are the ones which are seemingly correct.

I, too, think it is plausible, as I think about HAARP a lot these days when certain incidents happen, earthquakes, tsunamis (even 9-11) but I also remember reading an account from one of the hired shooters.

(Oswald was NOT one of them) The shooters had JFK covered from various angles and each had a job to do and when he was dead they packed up and left, not really knowing which one's bullet was the final kill shot! So no chances were being taken. The slowed limo would have left room for more shots if needed---overkill I would say!

But see.. the issue for me with your claim is that the only thing that supports it is witness testimony.. which I feel is unreliable. Many people saying something doesn't make it necessarily accurate. There is also the possibility of disnfo.. people within the crowd could have been working for the government and spreading it as well. The solid evidence we have -- the film and the autopsy don't add up to me. It seems that way for many considering there is no definitive answer after all this time and the whole thing still remains a mystery.

Because none of the conventional theories add up to me or have any conclusive evidence it leaves me looking for a new solution. This is what led me to my own theory.. and the more I thought about it the more it made sense in light of what I know about the government developing secret technologies and events like 9-11. The government protecting these secret technologies is also what provides the reason for the conpsiracy in the first place.

But having said all that I can understand why people wouldn't buy it because there isn't enoguh conclusive evidence to support it.. but who knows where that evidence might come from in the future.. Maybe there are other cases where we could see the same technology used. Keep your eyes peeled...

As for Oswald, what I find so strange about him is everything.. all his behavior. He just strikes me as a classic MKUltra sleeper. And especially so on the day of the assassination - after the assasination.

My two cents would say that while I wholeheartedly reject the "lone gunman" hypothesis of the Warren Commission I would have to reject your microwave theory as well.

There is a huge difference between real gunshot wounds and what we've grown up seeing around us on TV. A bullet traveling at speed will build up a pressure wave around it, and when it penetrates bone and soft tissue that pressure wave would have to go somewhere, hitting a skull I suspect would cause exactly the kind of explosion of the skull we witnessed in the Zapruder film.

I am sure there are ballistics experts on here who could give us chapter and verse on the mechanics of how a skull reacts to a bullet, and different types of bullet. This is an area of research I've wondered why there hasn't been more experimental work done. Trying different types of bullets from different angles to recreate the death shot on the President. I am not sure whether you could use pig skulls as a suitable simulacrum, or whether they have artificial skulls that would react in a proper manner. I did see one documentary that was seeking to confirm the lone gunman theory, they got in a top marksman and he was able to hit the target, but the way the skull reacted wasn't convincing.

Another thing that strikes me is the shot that hits the Presidents throat, surely that would have paralysed him instantly, he reaches for the middle of his throat when shot, looking at anyone's neck you would have to go through the spinal column if shooting from the School Book Repository to get an exit wound there. Was that shot done from another location, with the specific aim of not killing the President, but to make him sit up and back to make him a better target for the kill shot?

My final word on microwave weapons is that they are, and would be in the early 60's, too prone to other effects, and dispersion of the beam over distance.

interesting theory OP, and nice to see someone else on here that is willing to think outside the box , its actually something i considered when i first started looking into jfk. But in all honesty were as i think it could be possible i find it improbable. hell the way i see it everything is possible. There was THREAD HERE A FEW MONTHS BACK ABOUT A SIMILAR THEORY TO YOURS Why didn't the CIA use the heart attack gun on JFK? (Or any other assination method thats quieter)

personally i believe JFK, was assassinated by his own government people i.e orchestrated by Lyndon Baines Johnson. in collaboration with outside people.JFK and his brother,

RFK, attacked organized crime in an effort to expose the Mafia to the public and curtail its power. JFK and Chicago mob boss Sam Giancana shared the same mistress, Judith Campbell Exner. Giancana helped JFK win the election in Illinois and on the east coast.Since 1942, the CIA and the Mafia have worked together in numerous clandestine operations. CIA operatives and former covert agents using CIA planes and vehicles often control the transportation of narcotics from the source. The Mafia controls the global drug distribution network to the consumer. The defunct Nugan-Hand Bank in Australia as well as banks in the Cayman Islands and Switzerland have also participated in CIA/Mafia money laundering of drug profits.(7)
8- The public execution of John F. Kennedy was accomplished by a three man Mafia/CIA "firing squad" in association with a patsy, Lee Harvey Oswald. The CIA was aware of the attempt on JFK's life prior to 11/22/63 and flew in an "abort" team to Dallas on the morning of the "hit."(8)
9- In 1963, John F. Kennedy was preparing to amend the National Labor Relations Board statutes and various Internal Revenue Service statues that would prevent foreign flag shipping from being exempt from American income taxes. These amendments would have seriously affected Liberian shipping magnates and the assets of men such as Aristotle Onassis. Billions of dollars were at stake. President Kennedy was killed three days before he was to make these amendments public

Source

so really the gov, mafia and others had a hell of a lot to loose. another man closely linked to all this was E. Howard Hunt who wanted to "finish the job" by killing Senator Ted Kennedy, greeted news of RFK's assassination with satisfaction

Alot of people have come up with many different theories on this, and tbh the full truth will never be known, and inconsistencies remain thoughout the whole thing which im will never die.

Oswald was accused of firing several shots from his position in the Texas School Book Depository. Two of these struck the president in the back of the head. But a third shot is said to have entered the president's throat, just above his Adam's apple, and emerged through the back of his neck. Did this third shot actually go from the front of his neck to the back? Doctor's at Parkland Hospital in Dallas, where the dying president was taken, and doctors at the Bethesda Naval Hospital, where the dead president was AGAIN examined, disagree. The Parkland groups say there was an entry wound in his throat. The Bethesda group, on the other hand, says there was an EXIT wound in his throat. Many spectators standing on the grassy knoll at the time of the slaying reported hearing at least one rifle shot fired from nearby. They also reported seeing as many as four men hurrying away from the back of the knoll as soon as the shots were fired. The Warren investigators quizzed several of these witnesses but came to no conclusion. Oswald may have indeed fired the shots that killed the president, but there is no clear-cut evidence that he ALONE did so. Nor was he even definitely linked with the sixth-floor window from where the shots were fired. Only minutes after the shooting, he was drinking a Coca-Cola. Could he have left the firing site and composed himself so quickly? Here's another factor to consider: firing a cheap rifle, as Oswald did, should have left a powder burn on his cheek. After Oswald was arrested, his cheek was examined: no such powder burn was found! After Oswald's death, his palm print was found on his rifle butt, indicating that it was he who did the shooting. Some investigators charge, however, that a palm print could have been transferred from his hand to the rifle butt after Oswald's. This could have been one of many illegal efforts to tie Oswald to the crime.

The JFK assassination data can be divided into three groups:

1. The Method, or Means: How was the president killed? Shot by several shooters. Oswald played a part but if you follow his travels, timing and reaction, he was on the move and heading to Jack Ruby's (the man that later shot Oswald) house! - probably a safe-house. Oswald (unlike most involved) wouldn't have realized until just after the shooting (even if he did it and was one of the shooters) that something was not quite right and that he may have been framed as the (only) one involved.

Others coordinated the set of circumstances that led to the assassination. And yes, they were present in the plaza. The infamous umbrella man and his 'Cuban' friend were very suspicious! Several people in the plaza were seen casually strolling away a minute after the last shot, while people were alarmed, shocked and moving in all kinds of directions, trying to get away from the plaza or investigating what might have occurred behind the picket fence etc. How did the casual strollers know that more shots weren't going to ring-out? What about the significance of such an attack? Their reactions are bizarre.

2. The Motives: Why was he killed?

Where does one start? One of the main problems with this is that theorists have thought one group and another are mutually exclusive (it had to be x not y). Not true. What would have occurred is a highly skilled, covert (not the core of the CIA as this could not officially be sanctioned) team from different (technical, motivational and ethnic) backgrounds conspired to kill JFK. Some would have been contracted and others would have done it because of sheer dedication.

Kennedy wanted to pull-out or not have an attacking force in Vietnam. He fired the head of the CIA Allen Dulles and wanted to overhaul the CIA and perhaps other secretive government organizations. Having perhaps a Catholic, liberal President, that believed in an open and transparent government (at perhaps all levels!) did not sit well with the establishment and hidden-ruling force(!) at that time. Cuba is always a possibility but I don't buy it. The assassination was more to do with what certain Americans felt and thought.

But the biggest mistake to make is that one group exclusively was involved. If you try and classify things too much you might end up skewering your assumptions and conclusions. It's possible that one person involved was Cuban and affiliated with right-wing ideals related to government, wars etc. But another person involved may have been Cuban and affiliated with Castro-like communist propaganda. It's also possible that some mafia type character had ties to the CIA, but went rogue etc etc etc! You can draw a ven diagram to quantify all kinds of characteristics and qualities of people associated with such a daring operation.

3. The Men (and women!) Involved: Who killed him? The shooters may have been professional contractors form France, but it may well have included Oswald. The Warren Commission points the finger at Oswald, but their credibility on several other issues is highly suspect and this may rule out Oswald, as a shooter, too. It technically would in some of the courts today.

Several postings on other sites claim that Ruth Payne, who got Oswald the job at the TSDB the month before, and who helped Oswald and his family with support and accommodation etc, may have been involved somehow. They also claim she had a family background of CIA contractors etc. I don't buy this myself. They also have detailed information on several others that knew Oswald and Ruby. But what I like to focus on is the highly trained 'normal-looking' people at the plaza that would have had some role to play in the whole saga, even if it was for surveillance of others there; who was doing, saying what, who was taking pictures, who looked in a certain direction just after the shootings etc etc.

The impression one gets of a professional contractor (even one that's there for surveillance) or operative especially in the 50s and 60s is a suited-up male with conservative appearance. But why would you never suspect several of the so-called witnesses in the plaza, as having some role to play in the 'assignment'? Having some specific job to do. Just look at some of the photographs taken that day. What are the chances of several men from different backgrounds scoping a small area (for a suspected bullet penetration and fragments) with hands in their pockets! There are several photos of this. An operation of this magnitude would entail real covert action on all fronts. The groups were trained to go beyond the norm. They do and they did fit-in nicely that day. Well to most they did. The number of suspicious deaths is over 100 in the years proceeding the assassination and several deaths were coincidently just prior to testimonies etc. Deaths of Witnesses Connected to the assassination of John F. Kennedy The six degrees of separation in some of those deaths are tragic and mind-boggling!

****Disclaimer*****

Some info here were gathered and collected into word a while back and i cant remember all sources

reply to post by 8311-XHT


Interesting theory.. Some things to take into consideration though.

1 - A bullet impacting the head can result in what we see on the Zapruder film. All contigent upon ammunition, and if I am not mistaken the ammo oswald was using, larger caliber, would fit.

2 - I think you are leaving out the fact that Govenor Connely was also wounded in the assasination. If a microwave could do that much damage to the head, it would do considerable damage. In the case of the Govenor, his wound was from the back going to the front.

While I dont buy into the magic bullet theory (which says the kill shot basically made several mid course corrections after it hit President Kennedy and before it entered Gov. Connely, we shouldnt dismiss that 2nd gunmen on the grassy knoll theory either.

How would you explain the gunshot reports everyone heard? One of the motorcycle officers present had his mic accidentally keyed open and caught the rifle reports.

The police located the rifle used from the book depository.

Anyways... not trying to dismiss your theory or attack it. Just pointing out some other issues that would need to be accounted for if a microwave weapon were used.

reply to post by Rob37n

Was that shot done from another location

Yes, unfortunately though, I don't have much time to go into an in-depth post right now, so instead, I'll link you to one of the best videos on youtube explaining where this shot most likely came from, who fired the shot and more:



It's a very enlightening video from one of my favorite researchers of the case. It's definitely worth a watch.

reply to post by 8311-XHT


I want to disagree with something, they could have risked using a sniper because highly trained soldiers have such a high accuracy percentage that it wouldn't even matter because they are sure he will hit.

For example i saw in a documentary about SWAT teams a trained sniper hitting 6 targets in 4-5 seconds with 2 of them right in the middle and the others were missed with about 1.5 inches from the middle. And think about it, they are SWAT .... imagine a trained military sniper with the best technology at his disposal. I would give him 100% chance of a lethal hit.

This is going to probably sound crazy... (even on this board).. but I am very much an "out of the box" thinker, so bear with me. When looking at the Zapruder film I had always thought the way JFK's head EXPLODED when shot just never seemed natural. Then you add to that the unliklihood of hitting that kind of shot with JFK moving so quickly as well. The whole thing just doesn't seem right. Then consider that if this was a government operation.. do you really think they would risk the job being botched and relying on such a risky attempt to kill the president by using ONLY a rifle? What happens then if they fail? Doesn't that put the conspirators in more jeopardy considering JFK would likely know who was conspiring against him? Then on top of that consider all the technology the US government has at their disposal

What happens if they fail ?
Most likely the same thing that did happen. Ruby shoots crazed lone gunmen who said, "I'm a patsy".

explosion -> Hollow-point bullet

frame 313 -> the whole movie is a hoax!

why they killed kennedy -> he wanted to see the Ford Knox Gold and asked many inconvenient questions about "ufos, secret organisations and stuff"...

S + F op. This was really interesting and really well put together. Mostly it was exciting to finally see something about a believable conspiracy about something real on here. I am not sure I am swayed 100% but at least you got me thinking and I appreciate that.

Originally posted by RickyVelveeta
obvious disinfo agent is obvious.

no but seriously, that's a pretty well thought out theory; but what's your point? doesn't this just qualify as shinfo?

Whats a shinfo?

just wondering.