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JFK Not Killed by a Bullet?

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posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 12:06 PM
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Im sorry I just dont buy this theory!

A second gunmen on the grassy knoll sure...

The illumanati responsible for his assassination sure...

JFK killed by a microwave weapon... needs to be in skunk works at the very least!




posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 12:48 PM
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was trained as a microw-wave tech in the eary 70's..for what you propose,the technology didnt exist in 1963 to build anything small enough to hide....sorry....what happened to his head was the result of a high velocity projectile encountering bone and wet flesh matter(brain)...good thinking though



posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by 8311-XHT
 


Probably not but I don't disagree that is still very debatable! The only thing for certain when the details of the report are released in the next few years there will be thick black lines over the important details as too many people involved or who could know something will be still alive e.g Bush senior. We will not know the real truth for many years to come that is why theories like this will make the rounds for some time yet!



posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 06:47 PM
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www.ghosttheory.com...


See...my firm belief is that all this alien flying saucer stuff was an intentional cover for our super technologies. In WWII the Germans developed this antigrav tech and made the first saucers because saucers are the ideal shape for radar stealth. The Germans had to develop this to defeat the newly invented ally radar. When the ally pilots saw the saucers over Germany they seemed so advanced their immediate reaction was to assume they were alien.. when the US intelligence found out this was German tech after the war and acquired it their self it gave them the perfect cover for this technology.

Watch this documentary and you see they even told aircraft designers to design our stealth conventional aircraft like UFOs for 3 reasons.. 1 because they too would be confused for UFOs.. and 2 becuase if someone saw our actual saucers we could say they were mistaken conventional stealth aircraft.. and 3 because this shape has actual stealth characteristics even on conventional aircraft.

video.google.com...#

Now not only would confusing our stelth tech with saucers help hide the tech from our own citizens and even others in our own military.. but it would also allow us to spy on countries like Russia and see what they were doing militarily and we would just claim it wasn't us but aliens. Tieing these saucers with aliens would likely also prevent the general population in places like Russia from even reporting sightings... even people in the military

We may have even staged Roswell for this purpose.. as a way of trying to convince Russia that aliens were real.

But again.. not only did we use the alien cover to hide this tech from the general population.. us.. but they also used this alien excuse to hide this tech from people within our own government.. I think even presidents. Tha is how dangerous our own government viewed this tech and how much they were trying to keep it secret... for military reasons and financial reason. If this tech got out it would change all of society and to the military let the genie out of the bottle.

So imagine that the military has Kennedy and others convinced this tech is alien.. and Kennedy takes it seriously.. and believes it's real and wants to tell the american people and Russia about it.. the military can't allow this.. because if they do then eventually the truth will come out about this tech being ours. So imagine that our military realizes they have to sacrifice our own president to save what they feel is mankind.. and as proof of WHY they need to do it.. they use the tech they view as so danerous in the very way that they are afraid the tech will be used against them or anyone if it gets out. I believe this is why they did 9-11 as well. And why they justified all the people killed then, too.

For the people that don't belive our government would sacrifice innocent lives in this way.. just consider all the people that are killed in wars. I think they view these events as horrible but necessary sacrifices.. this is best case scenario of course.. hopefully it isn't really just evil people doing evil greedy acts.


edit on 26-6-2011 by 8311-XHT because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by Homedawg
was trained as a microw-wave tech in the eary 70's..for what you propose,the technology didnt exist in 1963 to build anything small enough to hide....sorry....what happened to his head was the result of a high velocity projectile encountering bone and wet flesh matter(brain)...good thinking though


What if it was from an aerial platform.. I am totally convinced antigrav is real and was very advanced in Kennedy's era.. and with the power levels involved in antigrav tech it would be child's play to make a weapon using that power in a beam system.

Also consider that most of the time these crafts appear invisible because the gravity field warps the view of the craft... you only see them from certain angles and when the field is not intense. And if the field is intense the people in the craft can possibly be operating at a different rate of time. This would also make an assasination incredibly simple because the event would be in slow motion to the perpetrators in the craft targeting the president.

video.google.com...#



posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 08:24 PM
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Get over it man, the TRUTH IS OUT THERE !

Marilyn Monroe was the shooter on the grass knoll


She wanted John for herself soo badly she could not control herself !! She went to the grass knoll and tried to assassinate Jacky, BUT SHE MISSED !!!


I can just see Bobby going to Marilyn, "WHY DID YOU KILL MY BROTHER !", and all she could say with a sob was, "I was trying to hit Jacky."

And after he left she took the pills ...

edit on 26-6-2011 by MACchine because: gettin OUT THERE



posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 10:21 PM
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Originally posted by 8311-XHT
This is going to probably sound crazy... (even on this board).. but I am very much an "out of the box" thinker, so bear with me. When looking at the Zapruder film I had always thought the way JFK's head EXPLODED when shot just never seemed natural. Then you add to that the unliklihood of hitting that kind of shot with JFK moving so quickly as well. The whole thing just doesn't seem right. Then consider that if this was a government operation.. do you really think they would risk the job being botched and relying on such a risky attempt to kill the president by using ONLY a rifle? What happens then if they fail? Doesn't that put the conspirators in more jeopardy considering JFK would likely know who was conspiring against him? Then on top of that consider all the technology the US government has at their disposal.

When I look at the JFK assassination it reminds me of 9-11. To me these are both orchestrated events with the purpose of moving society in the direction the powers that be want us to move. I also believe that super technologies are the reason for much of all these conspiracies. As I see it after WWII America's biggest fear and enemy was tehnology itself.. not just other countries getting this tech but even average Joes like us. These technologies presented a risk to national security and our economic system. As I see it our government is using these weapons they fear going mainstream in these events to shock us into creating the totalitarian system they feel is necessary to control this technology without us knowing it. The JFK assassination, 9-11, hurricane Katrina, Japan quake and tornadoes all represent this.

Look at this image.. does this look like damage caused by a bullet at long range? It's the same with 9-11. Is this really how it would look when a building structurally fails? To me the answer is no in both events..

www.awesomestories.com...

What I propose is that like the microwave energy weapon used to basically disintegrate the WTC:

www.youtube.com...

they also used some kind of microwave direct energy weapon on JFK to ENSURE the mission was completed.. What happens when you microwave something with water in it.. it can explode... imagine you had an advanced targeting system that could lock onto a moving target... a high energy beam is locked on to JFK's head.. and fired a super high intensity pulse at his head. Where the beam is targeted instantly causes that area of his fluid filled brain to heat up and explode.

In this frame you can see what is either a bullet or bone coming out of the top of his head.. OR it could be the beam super heating moisture in the air and moisture that exploded out of JFK's head. This is frame 313 of the Zapruder film

www.jfk-fr.com...

Now.. I know what you are all thinking... this fits in perfectly with the stereotype of conspiracy theorists.. "tin foil hat wearers". But why do you think that is? From what I have seen this is what the government does. They intentionally spread disinformation to discredit the theories that are actually real. For example.. I believe the US has had antigravity technolgy since WWII.. and to discredit this info from being accepted in the mainstream they have tied the whole "alien coverup" to antigravity to dsicredit antigravity in general. We see the same thing happening with 9-11. A huge amount of disinfo has been tied to this event to discredit all 9-11 conspiracy theories from being accepted or even considered,. So maybe this is WHY conspiracy theorists have been painted as tin foil hat wearers... to prevent us from even considering how the JFK conpsiracy was actually pulled off.. things like the shooter on the grassy knoll and gunman in the car with Kennedy could all be misdirection..

Also.. one of these super technologies I think terrifies the government is MKultra.. which was also used in these assassination attempts. This is another example of a technology I think the US government fears going mainstream in the future and even use the fear of these technolgies within the government to get others in the government to do what they want.

The other beauty of this technology is that it can't be traced.. if an actual gunman were captured it would likely be easy to trace them back to the conspirators. By using these super technologies like MKultra and something like an energy weapon not only can't they be traced but they are so unbelievable to the general population we wouldn't even believe they are possible. And when you think about it that is probably why they think we NEED the wool pulled over our eyes because we are such simpletons we can't even conceive of this kind of stuff.

I know this will likely be considered a looney theory.. and maybe it is.. but it's something to think about. Keep it in mind as you go through not ony the evidence of this event but also others in US history.




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edit on 26-6-2011 by 8311-XHT because: (no reason given)

Um he got shot by a Sniper Rifle, They used the exact rifle exact car, going at the exact speed, even the precise wind speeds that were recorded on that day. They let a sharpshooter shoot the dummy wich beared a compsite skull made to represent bone, blood, tissue, and brain matter as closely as possible. they compared the same results to the original fottage and the results were very similar. so in my opinion he got shot.
edit on 26-6-2011 by MrKelly because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 11:00 PM
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Originally posted by MrKelly

Um he got shot by a Sniper Rifle, They used the exact rifle exact car, going at the exact speed, even the precise wind speeds that were recorded on that day. They let a sharpshooter shoot the dummy wich beared a compsite skull made to represent bone, blood, tissue, and brain matter as closely as possible. they compared the same results to the original fottage and the results were very similar. so in my opinion he got shot.
edit on 26-6-2011 by MrKelly because: (no reason given)


From the book despository? Could they get 3 shots off in the same time using the bolt rifle?

What about the bullet wound? From JFK's later autospy reports there is no bullet hole in the back of the head.. and the "flap" of skin on his skull is blown out as if the shot came from behind but there is no bullet wound from behind according to many.
edit on 26-6-2011 by 8311-XHT because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by 8311-XHT
 


Aything is possible,of course...I cant say a positive answer to a "what if" theory...I just know what we worked with in the early 70's and how far that had advancd from the 60's......with micro-waves anything big enough to fry omebodys ehad in a microsecond would be as big as a house trailer....think the radar sets you see from the movies of that time...thats the same microwave generating tuners.....if you throw in alen technology the whole scheme seems lame since they could do it anytime and anyplace...still agood thread though...shows outside the box thinking



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 05:38 AM
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Originally posted by Homedawg
reply to post by 8311-XHT
 



if you throw in alen technology the whole scheme seems lame since they could do it anytime and anyplace...still agood thread though...shows outside the box thinking


I don't think it was alien technology though. I think it originated from Viktor Schauberger who was forced to work for the Nazis. He either discovered cold fusion or zero point energy. I am totally convinced of this.. but why is a long long story. If anyone is interested you can read my post history to get an idea.

As I see it the reason they couldn't do it anywhere and anytime is because they had to also use a gunman. They had to have a patsy. This is why I think they used these super tehcnologies - MKUltra and and energy weapon - because they are untraceable. Oswald was there to just fire his gun and likely did hit Kennedy in the back.. but look at it from the governments perspective.. they could NOT risk blowing their opportunity. If they botched the hit then Kennedy likely takes control of the situation and prevents it from being covered up and they don't get another opportunity to take him down so easily again. He would likely figure out who wanted him dead and why.

Also if you have multiple gunmen then you increase your chances of getting caught and traced back to the conspirators exponentially.
edit on 28-6-2011 by 8311-XHT because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 05:51 AM
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reply to post by 8311-XHT
 


Oswald was there to just fire his gun and likely did hit Kennedy in the back


Considering that the presidential motorcade was running slightly late, Oswald was seen by witness Carolyn Arnold at Approx. 12:25 on the second floor lunchroom and Kennedy was struck, we've been told from the sixth floor, at exactly 12:30... I'd say if anything, Oswald was unlikely to be in a position to shoot Kennedy. But hey, that's just me.


And there seems to be absolutely no hint at any MK ULTRA or any "super weapons" being used here at all. Even after almost 50 years. Instead, everything points to guns being used by multiple witnesses and absolutely no need for the use of MK ULTRA.

Let's not forget the HSCA investigation after all. This being probably the most in-depth investigation ever done on the JFK Assassination case in which they concluded a probably conspiracy had taken place. If some sort of super weapon was used, or MK ULTRA of course, they simply would have known about it. Instead, no, because rifles were the only possible, as well as being the only plausible conclusion.

Just because you may believe super technology was available then, that's no reason to believe it was used.


Oh, and this really isn't the only in-depth investigation done on this case. And again, no one has ever even been suspicious anything other than rifles were used. That certainly tell's us something..


Out of pure curiosity, what makes you think MK ULTRA was used in the JFK case?
edit on 28-6-2011 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 06:02 AM
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Interesting theory OP, i think it definetly has some credence to it, but its hard to contemplate as you say, its so unbelieveable that the general public would instantly denie, most people who discover something so dangerous that it scares them and shocks all there beliefs, they simply denie, pretty convenient mind cycle there for any would be 'whistleblowers' Just a thought OP, like this thread


This link may interest you as you mentioned tin foil hats etc.

www.itsaboutthattime.net... Be sure to read the small print on the bottom of the card.
edit on 28-6-2011 by Vanishr because: spelling



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 06:48 AM
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reply to post by Rising Against
 


Hi RA. Don't know if you got it but I wanted to let you know I replied to your PM. thanks again.

Please keep in mind when I make comments it is with the disclaimer that this is just a theory and an evolving one and I don't mean to claim I am certain of everyhting or that I am an authority or totally knowledgable about all aspects I talk about. The crux of my claim is just that from what I have learned about this event none of the info that I have seen makes sense to me.


Considering that the presidential motorcade was running slightly late, Oswald was seen by witness Carolyn Arnold at Approx. 12:25 on the second floor lunchroom and Kennedy was struck, we've been told from the sixth floor, at exactly 12:30... I'd say if anything, Oswald was unlikely to be in a position to shoot Kennedy. But hey, that's just me


This theory doesn't hinge on Oswald being the gunman.. but the point remains that the more gunmen you have you increase your chances of being caught. The fewer you have the more likely you are to potentally fail in the mission. So I think it is just as plausible that they had some gunmen posing as Oswald. But it does make you wonder.. how a gunman could be up there and not be seen.

As someone that has studied this a lot what is your take on this? Do you feel that some shots were definitely fired from the location Oswald was supposed to be? How did they escape notice?


And there seems to be absolutely no hint at any MK ULTRA or any "super weapons" being used here at all. Even after almost 50 years. Instead, everything points to guns being used by multiple witnesses and absolutely no need for the use of MK ULTRA.


www.abovetopsecret.com...


It appears that Sirhan Sirhan, James Earl Ray, and Lee Harvey Oswald. at one point were living in Dallas housing project within a block of each other!.And this had the earmarks of being much more than coincidence....
This was brought forward by James B Hulet who interviewed Jim garrison at length over a period of time.


Plus, as I said before.. Oswald seemed like the classic MKUltra sleeper because of his bizarre behavior before and after the assassination. But again.. this is the reason why our government is so terrified of these "super technologies" getting out.. I think this is WHY Kennedy was assassinated.. becuase unlike the military and CIA who are control freaks trying to ensure the US safety, and therefore incredibly paranoid, Kennedy was idealistic, like probably many of us here. I believe everything the government has done since the end of WWII is based on this scenario. and we may not even understand the full implications of these kinds of technologies. There may be things that actually justify their crazed paranoia.


Let's not forget the HSCA investigation after all. This being probably the most in-depth investigation ever done on the JFK Assassination case in which they concluded a probable conspiracy had taken place. If some sort of super weapon was used, or MK ULTRA of course, they simply would have known about it. Instead, no, because rifles were the only possible, as well as being the only plausible conclusion.


But this is WHY they used these methods.. because they couldn't be traced. Just look at it like this.. what do you think our military has in their bag of tricks to assassinate some other country's leaders if they wanted to.. and not get caught? These are the technologies and methods and this is why.. because they can't be traced. They wouldn't even have been suspected then because at that time they didn't even have knowledge of them.. which is WHY you would want to use them. Not only that but people even now don't even understand WHY our government would WANT to do this to their own president..it's BECAUSE Kennedy was such a straight shooter and so idealistic... and this is why they used these tehcnologies.. because they in fact prove to people like the CIA WHY he had to be killed and why they were justified and why Kenedy was wrong to want to make this info mainstream.

I also think it is very probable that many of these reports from the scene were generated by people within the CIA as misdirection. The whole thing is about misdirection so nothing can be pinpointed. And you could say.. "why hasn't all of this leaked?" Because the people involved have been brainwashed about twhy they did it.. They could manipulate the people involved just like they have manipulated us.. with just as sophisticated methods. I think this whole "alien coverup" is based on that.. fooling people within the government that aliens are real to hide these real super technolgies.. the people involved in the coverup could even be under the effects of MKultra themselves. All this sonds far fetched.. but from what I have learned nothing is too far fetched. Truth is truly stranger than fiction.


Just because you may believe super technology was available then, that's no reason to believe it was used.


True.. but that isn't the only reason. The main reason is that the evidence doesn't add up with conventional reasons and even the wildest conspiracy theores.. and I think I have heard them all.


Oh, and this really isn't the only in-depth investigation done on this case. And again, no one has ever even been suspicious anything other than rifles were used. That certainly tell's us something..


I think ti tells us how effective their methods were and how naive people are (and especially were then) even in the government. I think it also tells how the government was in control of the investigation. Also, I think what this all boils down to is how well the government has kept these super technologies secret.. the way they do this is with disinformation.. disinformation with the JFK assassiantion itself.. disinformation with these super technologies.. making people focus on aliens.. making conspiracy theoriests focus on other aspects - the grassy knoll.. the people in the car... even claiming Jackie was an MKultra sleeper. All these things meant to divert us from the real issue. Plus the whole "tin foil hat" conspiracy theorist thing pushed in the public.

We see the same kind of thing with 9-11. I think the government has done the same thing.. flood the infoverse with every theory imaginable.. distracting us from the real issues and actual theory.



Out of pure curiosity, what makes you think MK ULTRA was used in the JFK case?


Detailed above.. but also because so many of these assassinations have used possible MKultra sleepers. And again.. the irony is that the very reason they USE these methods is BECAUSe they are so dangerous. In the conspirators minds they may feel they HAVE to use these super technologies BECAUSE they are so dangerous and powerful and untraceable. And they can't tell the presidents etc because they are so idealisic they would let it slip and never condone the methods used.. and again.. this may just be the tip of the iceberg of the super technologies... not to mention the effects on the financial world... basically they may believe they are protecting civilization as we know it because if everything they knew got out society could completely collapse..

edit on 28-6-2011 by 8311-XHT because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 07:49 AM
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Originally posted by Vanishr
Interesting theory OP, i think it definetly has some credence to it, but its hard to contemplate as you say, its so unbelieveable that the general public would instantly denie, most people who discover something so dangerous that it scares them and shocks all there beliefs, they simply denie, pretty convenient mind cycle there for any would be 'whistleblowers' Just a thought OP, like this thread


This link may interest you as you mentioned tin foil hats etc.

www.itsaboutthattime.net... Be sure to read the small print on the bottom of the card.
edit on 28-6-2011 by Vanishr because: spelling


haha That's true. It's scary how easy it is to manipulate and deceive the masses.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 08:54 AM
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reply to post by 8311-XHT
 




Please keep in mind when I make comments it is with the disclaimer that this is just a theory and an evolving one and I don't mean to claim I am certain of everyhting or that I am an authority or totally knowledgable about all aspects I talk about. The crux of my claim is just that from what I have learned about this event none of the info that I have seen makes sense to me.


The same applies to me.


I'm just very interested in this case and I want to find some truth in it. So, If I disagree with your theory, I want to try and show why I disagree with it as more can be learnt that way. That being so, I'm really enjoying this thread. It's becoming something of a rarity that we get to discuss a great conspiracy theory all the while keeping it civil and keeping the arguments to actual debate.


This theory doesn't hinge on Oswald being the gunmen.. but the point remains that the more gunman you have you increase your chances of being caught. The fewer you have the more likely you are to potentally fail in the mission. So I think it is just as plausible that they had some gunmen posing as Oswald. But it does make you wonder.. how a guman could be up there and not be seen.

As someone that has studied this a lot what is your take on this? Do you feel that some shots were definitely fired from the location Oswald was supposed to be? How did they escape notice?


Oh, I agree there was more than one gunman. I was disagreeing that Oswald was a shooter. That's why I quoted when you said he was.


This analysis from you unfortunately doesn't give us reason to disagree with the Lopne Gunman theory though. Reason being, this theory states a lone assassin hated the president (I'll note at this time that that Marina Oswald claimed she heard everything great she knew about Kennedy from Oswald), and he then decided to murder him.

A Lone Nut if you will.

So, from a "Lone Nut's" Point of view, multiple shooters aren't needed. He has himself, he has a gun and he has a target. And he's going to try and hit that target. Adding more numbers jeopardises the mission and can do more harm than if he missed.

Anyway, as far as I'm aware, "a figure" certainly was seen on the 6th floor window overlooking dealey plaza. I believe one of those witnesses was a gentleman called Howard Brennan, and here's what he allegedly saw in his own words:


My first instinct was to look back up to that man on the sixth floor. "Was he going to fire again?" I wondered. By now the motorcade was beginning to speed up and in only a couple of seconds the President's car had disappeared under the triple underpass. To my amazement the man still stood there in the window! He didn't appear to be rushed. There was no particular emotion visible on his face except for a slight smirk. It was a look of satisfaction, as if he had accomplished what he had set out to do. He seemed pleased that no one had realized where the shots were coming from. Then he did something that puzzled me. Very slowly and deliberatley he set the rifle on its butt and just stayed there for a moment to savor what he had done, like a hunter who had "bagged his buck." Then, with no sense of haste, he simply moved slowly away from the window until he disappeared from my line of vision.
(Source)

Again, let's not forget that Oswald was seen on the second floor lunchroom by Police officer Marion baker roughly 90 seconds after the assassination. But according to witness Howard Brennan, the gunman was certainly in no such rush. It's not evidence, I know, but it's some great food for thought and it gives us a reason to be more skeptical about the theory placing Oswald as the assasin.

Another witness that jumps to mind is Lillian Moneyham, and she claims a shooter from this position was looking out "minutes after the assassination". Here's a picture from the TSDB literally seconds after the assassination for some skeptical balance though, please note that people DID hear shots coming from this location (Marion Baker for one), thus why we have these images, It's just the majortiy of witnesses however point towards the Knoll:



Unfortunately we can't see a sniper in this image. And this is an image straight from the Warren Commission, so if Oswald was in it, they'd how it without a doubt.

What we can see however, is the gentleman below on the 5th floor. This is interesting because the witness to, I believe, the right was called Harold Norman and he's most famous for claiming to have heard the shells hitting the floor just above him. Whether this was Oswald, well I don't know but I don't believe it could have been.

This does indicate a shooter from this location though. For me, I believe there were 3 locations all in all. The Texas School Book Depository 6th floor (but not by Oswald), the Dal-Tex building third floor, and the Grassy Knoll behind the picket fence.



www.abovetopsecret.com...


I'm a little bit confused as to why you sent me to this thread. No hint points to MK ULTRA still. The user who posted the thread is as curious about it as you seem to be and they've yet to add a link backing up any claim they made about anyone.



Plus, as I said before.. Oswald seemed like the classic MKUltra sleeper because of his bizarre behavior before and after the assasination.


The thing is, I can't see any odd behavior from Oswald myself personally. Saying that, I'm a strong believer that Oswald was working with the government prior to the assassination, something which makes a great deal of sense when looking at his entire, albeit short, lifetime. Any odd behavior makes a great deal of sense when taking this into consideration

I've never seen any indication that Oswald was involved in, or would make a good MK ULTRA candidate though. Not once.



But this is WHY they used these methods.. because they couldn't be traced.


Ok, well, how could they make it so the "super" weapon caused the same injuries and reactions as a rifle, as well as sounds which everyone heard, even Harold Norman who heard shells hitting floor as well as gunfire from the 5th floor looking up at the 6th floor, or Gordon Arnold from in front of the Knoll.

How does this weapon account for the first shot striking, the last shots, as well as the shot to James Tague?

Why did not a single witness claim anything other than a rifle was used?

If you could tell me how they managed to do that, I'd believe you.


If not, then I'm going to believe the theory a rifle was used as everything points to it.



I also think it is very probable that many of these reports from the scene were generated by people within the CIA as misdirection.


I hugely disagree. The majority of the witnesses went directly against what the Warren Commission tried to prove. And I've yet to hear a single witness who fully heard/saw the events take place exactly the same way the commission claimed it did.

Sorry, but demonizing the witnesses to make this theory work isn't the way to go. They're the best source of information we have in fact.



True.. but that isn't the only reason. The main reason is that the evidence doesn't add up with conventional reasons and even the wildest conspiracy theores.. and I think I have heard them all.


I agree the evidence doesn't add up, but this is why we have alternative theories. And I've heard many myself which fill in a lot of the blanks myself... all of which are perfectly rational and can be backed up.

Super technology really isn't needed for the assassination to work. It never has been.



I think it also tells how the government was in control of the investigation.


Not a chance. Jim Garrison was a hard core skeptic of the JFK Assassination case and he's probably done more for it than anyone before him or since. And the final conclusion from his investigation was that a conspiracy had taken place. If he could out this whole thing, he would've done it without thinking twice..

The government was not in control of his investigation.

And just because they haven't come to the same conclusion you have, that doesn't mean it's further proove you're right and they are in fact hiding secret technology.


the way they do this is with disinformation.. disinformation with the JFK assassiantion itself.. disinformation with these super technologies.. making people focus on aliens.. making conspiracy theoriests focus on other aspects - the grassy knoll.. the people in the car... even claiming Jackie was an MKultra sleeper. All these things meant to divert us from the real issue.


Again, I disagree, It's not disinformation at all. In fact, you're doing the exact same thing as the people who came up with those theories. You're thinking outside the box and looking at another "out there" theory in the hope it might make sense and it can solve this case.

It's not disinformation, It's truth-seeking.



Detailed above.. but also because so many of these assassinations have used possible MKultra sleepers.


The only other I can think of is the RFK case. The JFK Assassination doesn't have any reason to believe it was influenced in anyway by the use of MK ULTRA.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 10:40 AM
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reply to post by Rising Against
 



The same applies to me.

I'm just very interested in this case and I want to find some truth in it. So, If I disagree with your theory, I want to try and show why I disagree with it as more can be learnt that way. That being so, I'm really enjoying this thread. It's becoming something of a rarity that we get to discuss a great conspiracy theory all the while keeping it civil and keeping the arguments to actual debate.


Me too. I am learning lots of new stuff.



Oh, I agree there was more than one gunman. I was disagreeing that Oswald was a shooter. That's why I quoted when you said he was.


My point was just that it doesn't really matter as far as my theory goes. But the point remains.... the controversy over the autopsy information refutes the shooter being in the knoll or the book deopistory... now maybe some other building is possible.. but I don't think the video and the way his body moves fits that as well.


So, from a "Lone Nut's" Point of view, multiple shooters aren't needed. He has himself, he has a gun and he has a target. And he's going to try and hit that target. Adding more numbers jeopardises the mission and can do more harm than if he missed.


I agree with this. do you know if there were any more suspects fomr the book depository?


To my amazement the man still stood there in the window! He didn't appear to be rushed. There was no particular emotion visible on his face except for a slight smirk. It was a look of satisfaction, as if he had accomplished what he had set out to do. He seemed pleased that no one had realized where the shots were coming from. Then he did something that puzzled me. Very slowly and deliberatley he set the rifle on its butt and just stayed there for a moment to savor what he had done, like a hunter who had "bagged his buck." Then, with no sense of haste, he simply moved slowly away from the window until he disappeared from my line of vision.
(Source)


Do you think this fits the behavior of a MKUltra subject? It does to me.. or it could be that the agent in place of Oswald stood there to get attention. But what if someone had gotten a photo of the actual gunman? Then where would the conspirators be? Here is ANOTHER example of witness testimony not making sense.. Did this witness say he saw Oswald? To me this makes the eye witness motives suspect because it doesn't make sense that the shooter would do this.. unless Oswald had a twin or a clone or something. haha


Again, let's not forget that Oswald was seen on the second floor lunchroom by Police officer Marion baker roughly 90 seconds after the assassination. But according to witness Howard Brennan, the gunman was certainly in no such rush. It's not evidence, I know, but it's some great food for thought and it gives us a reason to be more skeptical about the theory placing Oswald as the assasin.


I think it just puts the witness testimony in question more. I think this fits with MKUltra as well IF Oswald was the shooter. His behavior is that of a lone nut.. as it was all along. but as I see it he is a MKUltra lone nut.


This does indicate a shooter from this location though. For me, I believe there were 3 locations all in all. The Texas School Book Depository 6th floor (but not by Oswald), the Dal-Tex building third floor, and the Grassy Knoll behind the picket fence.


I believe this is plausible.. but unfortunately the hard evidence doesn't support that Kennedy was actually killed from these locations though.. this is why I just think we have to be missing something.. in fact NO location fits the hard evidence for me. The only conlcusions to me are this super tech one.. OR that the controversy over the bullet wounds is just wrong and there was a hole in the back of the head.




www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm a little bit confused as to why you sent me to this thread. No hint points to MK ULTRA still. The user who posted the thread is as curious about it as you seem to be and they've yet to add a link backing up any claim they made about anyone.


Sorry.. that was kind of unclear on my part. You asked why I thought Oswald was a MKULtra sleeper.. it was because of his behavior, that other assassinations seemed like MKULtra sleepers and this link I posted above.. but this is under the assumption this info linked to above was legit.


The thing is, I can't see any odd behavior from Oswald myself personally. Saying that, I'm a strong believer that Oswald was working with the government prior to the assassination, something which makes a great deal of sense when looking at his entire, albeit short, lifetime. Any odd behavior makes a great deal of sense when taking this into consideration


You don't think his behavior afyer the assasination was odd? Especially sicne his wife said he spoke highly of Kennedy? Maybe we are basing our opinions on different accounts of his behavior. I thought his actions after the assassiantion were beyond bizarre.. but again.. aybe I'm not aware of eevrything.

[quote[I've never seen any indication that Oswald was involved in, or would make a good MK ULTRA candidate though. Not once.

What do you think would make someone a good candidate? I have never heard it put like that before. Again.. maybe I am misisng somehting here. Again.. we know so little aobut MKUltra that people really don't know what is real about it and what isn't. From what I have read it was real and was incredbily effective... but I also know that many don't belive it is real. I don't think that is by accident.. like consoiracy theorist being called tin foil hat wearers isn't by accident.


Ok, well, how could they make it so the "super" weapon caused the same injuries and reactions as a rifle


This is key.. I think this microwave weaponry was something they probably experimented with heavily.. and in the process of that they probably discovered that this tech could be used to kill people in a number of ways. and they may have discovered that you could create an explosive effect.. one that looked just like a bullet impacting a skull and brain and do so in a way that looked exactly like a head shot. And thus was born this entire scenario. I would imagine they have many of these different technologies ready for events that come up in which thye need to kill someone or rescue hostages or over throw a government etc etc.


as well as sounds which everyone heard, even Harold Norman who heard shells hitting floor as well as gunfire from the 5th floor looking up at the 6th floor, or Gordon Arnold from in front of the Knoll.


Again though.. this doesn't affect my theory because they needed a patsy. I think the gunshots from Oswald's supposed position was real.. and shooting Kennedy in the back was for the desired effect. But the microwave headshot was for insurance. and the real assassianion attempt.


How does this weapon account for the first shot striking, the last shots, as well as the shot to James Tague?


Everything is really the same... the bullets were still fired from whichever location.. they were just not necessary to kill the president.. just to hopefully wound him and fill out the illusion of the event.


Why did not a single witness claim anything other than a rifle was used?


I think just because they never would have fathomed anything else could be used... this is why no one else would have thought of it then. Most people wouldn't think it wa sour own government involved.. they would assume "why" would people within our government kill Kennedy? Why would Americans take down the WTC? Same thing.. People just don't understan the bigger issues and technology.


If not, then I'm going to believe the theory a rifle was used as everything points to it.


I just don't see how you can take this stance when none of the knonwn theories add up fully. You seem to be certain that the headshot was from the grassy knoll.. correct? But from what I have seen I don't see how this is possible. The locations I have seen and that you have pointed out as well the wounds don't match that angle to me. The bullet should have gone out the other side of Kennedy's head opposite from the wound. That is the side that should have exploded out.. opposite of where his major wound was.


I hugely disagree. The majority of the witnesses went directly against what the Warren Commission tried to prove. And I've yet to hear a single witness who fully heard/saw the events take place exactly the same way the commission claimed it did.


Why didn't any police go to the grassy knoll after the shots were fired and find the person with a rifle? And agaiin.. the head wounds don't match the witness testimony. This is why I have to assume the testimony is unreliable.


Sorry, but demonizing the witnesses to make this theory work isn't the way to go. They're the best source of information we have in fact.


It's not demonizing.. it's just realizing that we are tlaking about a massive conspiracy here and a all powerful US government on their own turf.. in a scenario they set up.


I agree the evidence doesn't add up, but this is why we have alternative theories. And I've heard many myself which fill in a lot of the blanks myself... all of which are perfectly rational and can be backed up.


This was the only theory that seemed to be fully plausible to me.. that's why I posted it. But having said that.. I can't claim anythign definitively. I think they chose this method for that very reason. The same reason in which we can track down every bullet and find the gunmen involved is why they use Mkultra for assassinations and this super tech IMO. If I could some up with some other more plaubiel theory I would focus on that but I just can't think of anythign else. And this theory is more plausible than the main ones presented IMO.


Super technology really isn't needed for the assassination to work. It never has been.


The Kennedy assassiantion was unique though because of the cold war.. I think security could have been estra tight at the time for this reason which is why they couldn't just do what they did to Oswald with Ruby or like with Reagan.. who I also suspect may have been MkUltra.

[quote[Not a chance. Jim Garrison was a hard core skeptic of the JFK Assassination case and he's probably done more for it than anyone before him or since. And the final conclusion from his investigation was that a conspiracy had taken place. If he could out this whole thing, he would've done it without thinking twice..

I meant the Warren commission. As for Garrison they discredited hi like they have conspiracy theorists. They used disinfo to dicredit Garrison too.. like they have in the actual JFK assassiantion and probably used the same reasons for justifying it.


And just because they haven't come to the same conclusion you have, that doesn't mean it's further proove you're right and they are in fact hiding secret technology.


That is true.. that is why I can't say emphatically that I am right.. bu it is also why their methods are so effective as I see it.. There is just no way to prove this tech was used.. and they did enough to divert people's attention from having to consider it. They gave us all an easy way to ignore the facts.


Again, I disagree, It's not disinformation at all. In fact, you're doing the exact same thing as the people who came up with those theories. You're thinking outside the box and looking at another "out there" theory in the hope it might make sense and it can solve this case.


The problem is thoguh that no one wil ever even know about my theory because all the others have flooded the topic. This is why disinformation is so effective. It takes decades to sort through it.


The only other I can think of is the RFK case. The JFK Assassination doesn't have any reason to believe it was influenced in anyway by the use of MK ULTRA.


Why wouldn't the government use this method if they had it in their aressenal, especially for such an important situation?


edit on 28-6-2011 by 8311-XHT because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 07:08 PM
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reply to post by Vanishr
 
By the time the 60's ended and the glow of camelot had worn off,the fact that the government killed the presdient had worn thin...now we see "the government",in the form of tobama and his minions doing worse almost every day....the UN Small Arms treaty,Agenda 21,illegal immigration and the Dream ACt,and no one seems to care...at least they get away with it...etc...



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 06:15 AM
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I found ANOTHER very strange connection between the JFK assassination and 9-11...





I think 9-11 was planned at the same time as the JFK assassination too.



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 08:29 AM
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Wow! I just ran across something incredible.. in this video this woman who is an engineer says that she heard accounts that led her to believe people who had jumped from the WTC after the planes hit appeared to be EXPLODING in mid air before they hit the ground likely from a microwave directed energy device! At the 9:15 mark www.youtube.com...
edit on 30-6-2011 by 8311-XHT because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2011 @ 12:32 PM
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Has any one on here ever looked in to Woody Harrelson's dads(Charles Voyde Harrelson) involvement in the JFK shooting. He is one of the 3 "bums" in nice cloths arrested right after the shooting. Apparently he was a hit-man around that time and had ties to lots of people involved. I have checked into it a little as it looks like a legit link to LHO, Jack Ruby, and others and was married to an Oswald as well at one point as well.




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