Questions the Skeptics, Media and Government(s) Can’t Answer.

reply to post by Astyanax


Awww .... you so sweet!

Having worked with nuclear power while in the navy, I can assure you that you can't have the dose rates that I've heard reported > 100 REM /Hr. without some type of breach to the containment vessel. What has been glaringly omitted are the dose rates at various distances from the reactor site. This would be an indication of the radiation levels at the source. Perhaps this is the reason for the blackouts regarding this info.

If the radiation levels are indeed in excess of 100 REM/Hr. then, by the new lifetime exposure limit set by Japan, each worker will only be allowed 15 minutes of work before they must leave the area and not come back. If these workers are there for several hours, then mortality rates can be anywhere from 5 to 50% and survivors have a very high chance of having cancer.

Originally posted by Freenrgy2
Having worked with nuclear power while in the navy, I can assure you that you can't have the dose rates that I've heard reported > 100 REM /Hr. without some type of breach to the containment vessel. What has been glaringly omitted are the dose rates at various distances from the reactor site. This would be an indication of the radiation levels at the source. Perhaps this is the reason for the blackouts regarding this info.

If the radiation levels are indeed in excess of 100 REM/Hr. then, by the new lifetime exposure limit set by Japan, each worker will only be allowed 15 minutes of work before they must leave the area and not come back. If these workers are there for several hours, then mortality rates can be anywhere from 5 to 50% and survivors have a very high chance of having cancer.

I wonder how much of the 20 kilometer evacuation zone around the site is designed to protect people and how much it is designed to keep independent readings of the radiatoion in the immediate area from being taken?

It sure becomes convenient to the government and the corporation when no one else is around but them to check up on things.

When the cat's away...

Thanks for sharing that.

Radiation Spread Seen; Frantic Repairs Go On

WASHINGTON — The first readings from American data-collection flights over the stricken Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant in northeastern Japan show that the worst contamination has not spread beyond the 19-mile range of highest concern established by Japanese authorities.

www.nytimes.com... tml?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha2

This is what the New York Times has to say this morning, in a nut shell that Radiation levels are high at the plant and that they won't back off the 50 mile exclusion zone that they are advising Americans to observe, and that most of the arial water drops yesterday missed their targets.

They are openly questioning why efforts to restore power are just now beginning to get underway as well as what good it might do in the heavily damaged plant.

The US is now flying planes normally for use over North Korea to monitor the Radiation and stating that the Japanese Corporation has been understating things and slow in it's response to the disaster, where everything being done just seems to be a series of desperate measures.

I guess the good news is that it doesn't appear to have gotten worse, based on what we are being told, but that of course is relying on what we are being told.

This too likely is a game where the Japanese represent the best case rosey picture and the Americans represent the worst case rosey picture framing goal posts for the rest of us to contain our arguments within those boundaries.

Haha, sorry everyone but can anyone tell me what S&F means? I'm so confused lool Anyhow, yeah I completely agree with this post, does it really take rocket science to figure out what the truth is? This is just a very sad situation, they better hope that nothing bad will occur, this is terrible! :/

reply to post by Leemo


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Originally posted by derfreebie

Where they put these things is truly amazing. Here in South Florida the Turkey Point Plant at the northern most portion of the Florida Keys is right on top of some very sensitive habitat for wildlife and right next to a major population center, not to mention in a HURRICANE and STORM SURGE ZONE.

Funny that you mention this. Many a summer afternoon I would bask in the beauty of B. Everette Jordan Lake and surrounding area while the jet skiers, party boaters and swimmers played as the towers of the Shearon Harris Nuclear power plant jutted over the tree line.

reply to post by kismet815


I used to live in a tiny Hamlet called Sherrils Ford North Carolina on the North West tip of Lake Norman, which was one of a series of three man made lakes all to cool three different Nuclear Power Plants Duke Power owns and operates.

Recreational boaters, fishermen, jet skiers, and swimmers use the lakes, with nice homes around the shore line throughout the system.

All in the face of what at any time could turn into a tragedy of unparalleled proportion.

Lots of people lost their homes and property through imminent domain to create and flood the lakes.

Duke Power owns the lakes and the Shoreline including any and all private docks built on the shoreline and out onto the water.

Which could be annoying at times as fishermen who want to anchor at your dock at 3:00 AM in the morning to drink beer, play music, talk loudly and fish have an absolute legal right to do so.

We live in a strange world.

reply to post by SirMike


That would make you more knowledgeable than I about the subject.

I imagine you are right the MCCs and the pumps are all probably in a very soldid room on the ground floor, and probably had little or no exposure to the blasts. I imagine all the wiring is in explosion proof conduit. I might have originally been thinking about the flooding for my conclusion that the MCCs and possibly the pumps would no longer be functioning. I imagine the pumps were running when the tsunami hit, and the wave knocked out the pumps. Maybe they just knocked down the power lines, but I had assumed that the pump rooms would have been flooded, and most likely everything was shorted out. If all the conduit and connection boxes had been properly caulked, I guess there is a good chance that all the gear survived the deluge. That 12 kv is some pretty tricky stuff, but who knows. I read that they do have generators on site, but are still trying to hook up the power, so it is more than reasonable to believe that they think they can get plant equipment up and running, coolant pumps and all that.

I suspected that you meant kv and not kva.

From what little I read on meltdown, it was mentioned that it isn't really a technical term, but no additional information was given. I don't think they know how bad the situation is.

They are talking about entombing the reactors now.

news.yahoo.com...

I agree with your general argument, however Ii want to help some of you understand question #1's invalid point...It's not the reactor they are pouring water on as much as its the spent fuel pools that sit directly above the reactors that they are pouring water on...Then spent fuel sits in a pool cooling until it can be moved to the outside common pool then eventually moved to a reprocessing plant or long term storage...Things in the nuclear power field work on time lines of years and decades not weeks and months generally speaking...the fuel is so hot from decay heat that it literally will boil water for months after being taken out of the reactor....

reply to post by JustJoe


Thanks for sharing that. It would seem in retrospect this is just not a very safe power source for the people of Japan.

We can downplay and mitigate that all we want but is any one life cut short or ended for cheap energy worth it?

Sadly I think many people feel that it is, and I find that troubling as to ultimately those who end up with the short straws don't have any real say in it.

Bottom line is when people play with fire, someone is bound to get burnt.

reply to post by JustJoe


Nice to hear from someone who seems to understand the nuclear part of the equation more.

From what I have read and remember, to shut down the nuclear reaction, graphite rods are put in place to slow the fission process down, and the water cooling aids in the process.

The problem here is that without the cooling water, the graphite rods aren't enough to shut down the process, and so without the cooling water, the fission process starts to run away to the point where the graphite rods melts, and then the fuel melts, which is why they call it a meltdown, and once it gets to that point, the fission process can't be shut down until the fuel is spent, which is a very, very long time.

Does that sound right?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Do you have a learning disability?
The spraying and dropping of water is for the holding pools...for spent fuel rods not for the fuel in the reactors....the sea water was being pumped into the reactors...
This is a multifaceted situation...there are 6 reactors in varying states of repair....and the cooling pools for the spent fuel rods....which are the only ones that could be reached ,because there is no real containment around them....# 4's containment may be breached..they have said that....If you're going to have a thread...you really should have 'facts'....
Finally...all of the big businesses in Japan have some level of government ownership...so all that's going on too.....

I'm agreeing 100% with you all. We all live in a f***ed up world. And of course we can say it's all the fault of the government and the corporation and everybody else. We can say that we cannot do anything. But that's not true we can always do something maybe not alone but everything is not lost...

Not yet!

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by JustJoe

 

Thanks for sharing that. It would seem in retrospect this is just not a very safe power source for the people of Japan.

It's not just Japan. Are you aware how many nuclear power plants are operated in the US? It's over 100!!!
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by AllIsOne


Oh I know and believe me if it were up to me they would all be shut down and we would be moving towards wind and solar technology at a rapid clip.

Unfortunately it's hard for the Powers that Be to monopolize things like the Sun and the Wind or declare ownership of them.

So we seem to be missing the boat on truly clean and affordable energy.

Go figure???

Originally posted by nivekronnoco
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Do you have a learning disability?
The spraying and dropping of water is for the holding pools...for spent fuel rods not for the fuel in the reactors....the sea water was being pumped into the reactors...
This is a multifaceted situation...there are 6 reactors in varying states of repair....and the cooling pools for the spent fuel rods....which are the only ones that could be reached ,because there is no real containment around them....# 4's containment may be breached..they have said that....If you're going to have a thread...you really should have 'facts'....
Finally...all of the big businesses in Japan have some level of government ownership...so all that's going on too.....

Yes I do have a learning disability, they only give me 24 hours a day to work on it and the course of this lifetime. So it's a real challenge, so I tend to ask a lot of questions, and while I thank you for your very general assessment, and your concern for my further education, I don't see it being as simple as that, and it certainly is not excusable either.

Thanks for posting.

Originally posted by monkeyman03
I'm agreeing 100% with you all. We all live in a f***ed up world. And of course we can say it's all the fault of the government and the corporation and everybody else. We can say that we cannot do anything. But that's not true we can always do something maybe not alone but everything is not lost...

Not yet!

Yes we actually can do some things and truly ought to be. Of course most will be content just to sit back for the next round of entertainment, I hear our illustrious leader is giving a news conference at 2:00 PM to address the nation on the much graver threat that Libya presents to our peace, happiness, prosperity and security here in the U.S. and soon with another season of Shock and Awe on the air, people won't have time for the tragedy in Japan anymore.

As people we have no say sadly in what issues are really going to be properly handled, ignorned, put off, or taken up.

We just sit back and watch the show unfold.

Pity really.

I appreciate the positive note and thought though.

Thanks.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Human beings (can, should) learn from their mistakes. Tokyo's buildings did so well because buildings in the past failed and we learned from that failure.

The next generation of nuclear power plants will be even safer because of this scenario unfolding as it has. We need to really weigh the costs before we determine whether or not this disaster means the cost of nuclear energy is too high. With the death toll because of this disaster be greater than the death toll for our wars for oil? We need to remember the human cost of an energy source is more than just "deaths caused by oil or radiation." It includes costs like human lives destroyed or taken in economic wars to secure those resources.

Cost benefit analysis done properly is not for the flippant or faint of heart.

But even after this disaster, I can still see a future for nuclear energy, even nuclear energy in Japan. They just need to focus on water proof as well as earthquake proof, and while we are at it, perhaps now would be the time to consider scenarios where solar flares fry electronics too.

Hi there i finnaly contacted my friend who is living in Japan and he told me that today they rased INES from 5 to 7, so I guess it is nearly over with the attempts to save the plant. also from the firemen that were today there to spray water above the reactors, 5 lost their lives and 21 of them have severe radioactive poisoning. sorry im reading the site for a long time, but i made a reg now but need 20 post to post into other forums, so spread the word

so i guess it pretty #d up, I hope they will start making the sarcophagus soon!!!