‘Variability’ % proves God is the SPECIAL CAUSE, skeptics, why are you ignoring?

Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by MrXYZ
Just like you said you don't WANT to deny your faith. And if someone asks for proof of your beliefs, we always get the "you have to open your heart" style answers...which basically means you have to believe to have proof. Which is obviously complete nonsense when it comes to proving anything.

Yes it is about the heart.....but proof or logic aren't thrown out...it is not discrete...either/or...as you characterize.

Do you know any Christians?

A lot of them...none are so brainwashed that they don't believe in evolution though because they know you can't take scripture literally

Originally posted by OldThinker
Vid2-so some people are evil? and do stupid things?

Guess who started that trend?

Certainly not God

You are not really listening to what the guy says if that's what you got from the video! The video is about how creationists believe scripture is the word of god rather than something written by MAN. We have ZERO proof that it is gods word, only proof that it was written by men like you and me. Well, not me...I am not a fiction writer

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by OldThinker
Vid2-so some people are evil? and do stupid things?

Guess who started that trend?

Certainly not God

You are not really listening to what the guy says if that's what you got from the video! The video is about how creationists believe scripture is the word of god rather than something written by MAN. We have ZERO proof that it is gods word, only proof that it was written by men like you and me. Well, not me...I am not a fiction writer

No i got that...didn't think a point worthy of responding to....there is sooooo much evidence that the Bible is god's word I didn't even think that point was relevant.

Look into "breathed" in the original

Look into "carried along" in the original

Look into prophesies fulfilled

Look into the killed followers (voluntarily btw)

Look into the way non-believers talk about Jesus


1) Islam……
Holds Jesus to be a prophet, or messenger of God, along with Muhammad, Moses, Abraham, Noah, and others.
Source: en.wikipedia.org...

2) Jewish…….
American rabbi and author Milton Steinberg (1903 – 1949) wrote that Jews saw the historical Jesus as a “noble and loving Jewish teacher."
Source: M. Steinberg, 1975 Basic Judaism pp. 106-107, New York: Harcourt, Brace Jovanovich

3) Baha’i……
Founded in 19th-century Persia, considers Jesus, along with Muhammad, the Buddha, Krishna, and Zoroaster, and other messengers of the great religions of the world to be Manifestations of God (or prophets), with both human and divine stations.
Source: Stockman, Robert (1992). "Jesus Christ in the Baha'i Writings". Bahá'í Studies Review

4) Krishna......
-The International Society for Krishna Consciousness considers Jesus to be a shaktyavesha, the beloved son of Krishna who came down to Earth to preach God consciousness.
-Contemporary Sant Mat movements regard Jesus as a Satguru.
-Ramakrishna believed that Jesus was an Incarnation of God Swami Vivekananda has praised Jesus and cited him as a source of strength and the epitome of perfection.
-Paramahansa Yogananda taught that Jesus was the reincarnation of Elisha.
Source: en.wikipedia.org...

5) Buddists……
Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th Dalai Lama regard Jesus as a ‘bodhisattva’ who dedicated his life to the welfare of human beings.
Source: Beverley, James A. "Jesus Christ also lived previous lives", he said. "So, you see, he reached a high state, either as a Bodhisattva, or an enlightened person, through Buddhist practice or something like that".

6) Sikh......
See Jesus as a wonderful parallel with the person of Nanak, the first Sikh Guru....as with Allah and the Buddha.
Source: www.bbc.co.uk...

7) Manichaeism......
Accepted Jesus as a prophet, along with Gautama Buddha and Zoroaster.
Source: Bevan, A. A. (1930). "Manichaeism". Encyclopaedia of Religion and Ethics, Volume VIII Ed. James Hastings. Londo

8) New Agers......
Generally teach that Christhood is something that all may attain. Alice A. Bailey, who, invented the term ‘New Age’, refers to him as ‘Master Jesus’ and believe he had previous incarnations.
Source: en.wikipedia.org...

9) Jesus Seminars......
Portrays him as an itinerant Hellenistic Jewish sage who did not die as a substitute for sinners nor rise from the dead, but preached a "social gospel" of goodness.
Source: en.wikipedia.org...

10) Deists......
Thomas Jefferson, Founding Fathers of the United States, created the Jefferson Bible entitled "The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth" that included only Jesus' ethical teachings because he did not believe in his divinity
Source: en.wikipedia.org...



EVEN today’s famous atheists Richard Dawkins recognizes, “What was interesting and remarkable about Jesus was not the obvious fact that he believed in the God of his Jewish religion, but that he rebelled against many aspects of Yahweh's vengeful nastiness. At least in the teachings that are attributed to him, he publicly advocated niceness and was one of the first to do so!”

Yet the comments stated above, although they agree…defies intellectual logic in my mind…

A short illustration…Remember Back to the Future and the DeLorean (sp?) Imagine if you were Michael J Fox and someone asked you to go to five (only 5) different time zones/geographical areas and meet one person in each time zone/area and ask them, "please write a book about God, I'll be back in 5 years to collect it."

Five years later you went and picked up the five books. Logically speaking what are the chances those five books would agree? What are the chances those five books would build upon one another? What are the chances you could make any semblance out of them...to live by or the like? Snowballs in your know where, right?

Different people! Different cultures! Difference Time frames! Different Premises! Different World view! etc...

Logically speaking you would have five unconnected books with five different perspectives, right?

Well, the Bible (torah, prophets, gospels, epistles, revelation) are not 5 books by five authors, but 66 books by 40 authors...who did not know one another, did not live in the same town, did not live in the same time line...authors were of every occupation and financial status........yet......the Bible is a one-themed, continuing story.

Doesn't prove it God's Word yet though...just something that might warrant another look.

Point 2 ---- Here's an undisputable fact (I believe at least after examining) Jesus of Nazareth claimed to be God, his followers claimed He claimed to be God...and...non Christian journalist (such as Josephus) claimed He claimed he was God. Doesn't appear here to be different agendas going on. He said it, His followers said He said it, third parties said He said it and even his enemies said He said it (Sanhedrin, Pharisees, etc)

SO...with all that said...we have only two LOGICAL outcomes. No religious double-talk here) Either you BELIEVE or you REJECT. Really no other options right? If you believe, then to you HE IS LORD. If you REJECT there are really only two options for you.

1) JC knew he wasn't telling the truth, therefore he would be A LIAR

2) JC didn't know he wasn't telling the truth, therefore he would be A LUNATIC.

That's the only three logical outcomes...LIAR, LUNATIC or LORD. There is no room for him being a good guy and all, no room for him being a prophet as every other religion on the face of the earth calls him.

Because prophets don't lie and they are not usually in psych wards.

Point 3 ---- Most direct followers were killed for believing in JC. If they had stole his body and the Romans excused, at least one of them would have squilled just before their execution right? I would have...

but NO-All these ordinary folks were willing to die for what they saw… ???

To sum up, Chronicles of Narnia author, CS Lewis said, “I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept His claim to be God." That is the one thing we must not say. A man who said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic--on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg--or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”

reply to post by OldThinker


I hope you realize that not a single point you just mentioned can be defined as proof, right? It's exactly why you really should watch the whole series. It's why no evolution vs creationism discussion will ever lead to anything. If you can't accept the definition of proof, evidence, facts, and scientific theory, there's no common ground to discuss.

Proof: The evidence or argument that compels the mind to accept an assertion as true.

Scientific Evidence: Scientific evidence is evidence which serves to either support or counter a scientific theory or hypothesis. Such evidence is expected to be empirical and properly documented in accordance with scientific method such as is applicable to the particular field of inquiry.

Scientific theory: A theory that explains scientific observations; "scientific theories must be falsifiable".

Facts: An observation that has been confirmed repeatedly and is accepted as true

There is no point in debating OldThinker, as any points you will make will be ignored, and he will continue to try to pound in the same tired old points he tries to make in all of his threads.

reply to post by hippomchippo


Hey hc, so you have read my work?

Sweet!

For once could you and MrX respond to the content of my post? its me who ignores?

Come on now!

Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by hippomchippo

 

Hey hc, so you have read my work?

Sweet!

For once could you and MrX respond to the content of my post? its me who ignores?

Come on now!

Copy and pasting creationist claims isn't work

Half of your post is simply saying that Jesus was a nice guy and a moral teacher.

How does that prove the bible is the word of God?

You openly said it's 44 books by a variety of writers, yet somehow claim that it is still the word of God?

Your thread title is supposed to be proving God, yet now it's just a variety of creationist claims.

So I'll ask you once and for all, where's your proof of God?

[edit on 31-8-2010 by hippomchippo]

Originally posted by hippomchippo

Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by hippomchippo

 

Hey hc, so you have read my work?

Sweet!

For once could you and MrX respond to the content of my post? its me who ignores?

Come on now!

Copy and pasting creationist claims isn't work

Half of your post is simply saying that Jesus was a nice guy and a moral teacher.

How does that prove the bible is the word of God?

You openly said it's 44 books by a variety of writers, yet somehow claim that it is still the word of God?

Your thread title is supposed to be proving God, yet now it's just a variety of creationist claims.

So I'll ask you once and for all, where's your proof of God?

[edit on 31-8-2010 by hippomchippo]

oh OK,

hc, you are young my friend, sorry for being so direct with you...

OT's praying for you friend....

JC isn't what you have experienced so far as Christianity....sorry, you really missed the point of the post....

OT wishes you all the best, keep searching my good young man

others, NEXT!

Originally posted by OldThinker
oh OK,

hc, you are young my friend, sorry for being so direct with you...

OT's praying for you friend....

JC isn't what you have experienced so far as Christianity....sorry, you really missed the point of the post....

OT wishes you all the best, keep searching my good young man

others, NEXT!

And just like that you ignore my post and try to insult me by calling me young and inexperienced.

Please, present your evidence for God, instead of running away when asked for it.

reply to post by hippomchippo



I am not running, nor insulting you....I am so glad you joined.

Let's leave it at that.....you are free to believe as you will

OT
Phil 1:3

Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by hippomchippo

 

I am not running, nor insulting you....I am so glad you joined.

Let's leave it at that.....you are free to believe as you will

OT
Phil 1:3

I know I'm free to believe as I will, as are you.
But you're saying you have proof of God, please, present it.

reply to post by hippomchippo



You have 4k posts from me and 11K replies on ATS, its all there my good adversary

Please know I'm your ally, unless you know it or not

Thx!
OT
2 Corinthians 4:4

Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by hippomchippo

 

You have 4k posts from me and 11K replies on ATS, its all there my good adversary

Please know I'm your ally, unless you know it or not

Thx!
OT
2 Corinthians 4:4

No, I've seen several of your posts, and they've all been debunked, I'm not going to read through over 10 thousand replies to find your evidence of God.

Why can't you recap your proof of God?

See MrXYZ, this is why you can't debate OldThinker.

[edit on 31-8-2010 by hippomchippo]

Was just making a last effort to get OT to understand the definition of proof/evidence/theory/facts. If those videos didn't make it clear, all future discussions are 100% pointless. GL OT...sad that you can't live up to the mantra of this site by denying ignorance.

Originally posted by hippomchippo

Originally posted by OldThinker
oh OK,

hc, you are young my friend, sorry for being so direct with you...

OT's praying for you friend....

JC isn't what you have experienced so far as Christianity....sorry, you really missed the point of the post....

OT wishes you all the best, keep searching my good young man

others, NEXT!

And just like that you ignore my post and try to insult me by calling me young and inexperienced.

Please, present your evidence for God, instead of running away when asked for it.

Thats how all the Bible Thumpers are Hippomchippo!!

When you ask them a VALID question of their faith and beliefs, all you get is the same nonsense response from them all.

No answers from them only pure grade-A 100% B*LLSH*T every single time.

Never changes.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
Was just making a last effort to get OT to understand the definition of proof/evidence/theory/facts. If those videos didn't make it clear, all future discussions are 100% pointless. GL OT...sad that you can't live up to the mantra of this site by denying ignorance.

"last effort?" hmm...

definitions?

I have a dictionary...why are you using a kid to support your claim?

You may go hide, but my post/points are a record...that other skeptics who fought me back in the day, have recanted, and have come to the truth...

if this is the last time we talk I'll respectfully say, "thank you" and wish you nothing but the best

but remember the HOUNDS of Heaven know who ur now....I'll be watching

warm regards, OT

reply to post by Messiah_Tooth_Fairy







It is really hard to take a MTF seriously....

Too late to the game poser....

Good night

OT

reply to post by OldThinker


Are you actually able to respond to someone with a reasoned argument? Are you able to rebut with data and evidence? Maybe even a source?

Instead of replying to users with a civil veneer and a smug and smarmy attitude that your original post is correct and factual maybe you should attempt to argue their case, use empirical evidence to rebut the users who doubt you.

Maybe if you listen to some of the user's arguments you might be able to open your mind and realise that you could be wrong. If you really don't believe you wrong, show us why you think that, with facts, with data or at least with a cogent theory or rebut.

Until you do that, further discussions are in light of your ignorance.

A&A

Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by Messiah_Tooth_Fairy

 

It is really hard to take a MTF seriously....

Too late to the game poser....

Good night

OT

Posts like this one explain why you have 11k posts...not such a great achievement if most posts lack rationality and logic...or content.

Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Are saying God is responsible for fluctuations? That's one garbage pile of an argument.

Yes i am.....

Are you saying FLUCTUATIONS are responsible for fluctuations?

And are you saying that it has to be a mystical power?

Two good questions, two simple answers friend.

1) Yes it has to be a "POWER"

Equating features in a random distribution to "POWER" is to willingly live in superstition.