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Originally posted by Noncompatible
(oh and NEXT? Really, you must control that ego.)
What are the Chances?But do aliens actually exist? We don’t have any direct evidence one way or the other[36]; but an absence of evidence isn’t necessarily evidence of absence. That depends upon how likely it is that we would find evidence of ETI if they exist.
Whether or not you think aliens exist depends upon what assumptions about the origin of life you bring to the question. The relevant assumptions were organized into an equation by pioneer SETI researcher Frank Drake (as Jill Tarter says, “An equation is nothing more than a lovely way to organize our ignorance”[37]). The Drake Equation, as it has become known, suggests that the number of detectable civilizations (N) is determined by: multiplying the rate of formation of stars suitable for life (R*) by the fraction of those with planets (fp), by the number of those planets that are suitable for life (ne), by the fraction of these planets where life actually evolves (fl), by the fraction of these on which intelligent life evolves (fi), by the fraction of these that develop civilizations that produce detectable signs of their existence (fc), by the length of time such civilizations will produce detectable signs of their existence (L). That is:
N = R* x fp x ne x fl x fi x fc x L
The value of N (number of detectable civilizations) derived from this equation depends more upon the philosophical assumptions underlying the values assigned to its component parts than it does to hard scientific evidence. For atheists the answer mainly depends upon how likely the evolution of sentient life by purely natural processes is (i.e. upon the values of fl x fi). As evolutionary biologist Paul Ewald writes: “if there is life on other planets, natural selection has to be the fundamental organizing principle there, too.”[38] While I think a Christian can accept evolution by natural selection as God’s way of populating creation, there can be no “has to be” about it for anyone who believes in God, and there are a range of other options that Christians should seriously consider.[39]
The more we learn about the structure of life the less likely it seems that life could be the result of purely natural processes (whether or not those processes were designed by God).[40] Stephen C. Meyer calculates that “the probability of constructing a rather short, function protein at random [is] so small as to be effectively zero (no more than 1 chance in 10125), even given our multi-billion-year-old universe.”[41] To put this figure in context, there are only 1065 atoms in our entire galaxy! Such a staggeringly improbable explanation is the only one available given naturalistic assumptions.
Christian astronomer Dr. Hugh Ross argues that there are at least 26 characteristics of the universe and 33 characteristics of our galaxy, solar system, and planet that are finely tuned for life. He estimates that the probability of all 59 factors coming together by natural processes alone are 1053 to 1 (i.e.: 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 to 1)! A liberal estimate of how many planets may exist (though we have only documented about 40, none life-bearing) is 1022, (i.e. 10000000000000000000000 planets). Combining these two probabilities tells us that the odds of there being just one life sustaining planet in the universe, given only the operation of natural causes, is 1031 to 1 against (or 10000000000000000000000000000000 to 1). Therefore, says Ross, by natural processes alone, we shouldn’t even be here – let alone alien life forms on another planet.[42]
While atheists have to argue for or against alien life from assumptions based in naturalistic evolution, Christians are free to argue from other premises. For example, philosopher Alvin Plantinga argues: “It would seem strange if God would have created this entire universe and have creatures in only one small corner who were able to witness it and see what miraculous work he has done. So the natural thing to think from a Christian perspective is that there are lots and lots of intelligent species out there.””
There are about 2 x 10 (to the 44) nitrogen atoms near the surface of the earth or in its atmosphere. A single 600-nucleotide length of DNA contains about 2000 nitrogen atoms. Hence the maximum number of strands of DNA existing on the primitive earth is about 10 (to the 41). Suppose every such strand could split up and recombine with other fragments at the rate of 30 times a second. In 1 year (3 x 10' secs) you would get a maximum of 10 (to the 5) different strands forming. Then in 10 billion years you would get a maximum of 10 (to the 6) strands forming. The problem is that the number of possible arrangements of the four nucleotides into a strand 600 nucleotides long is 4 (to the 600) , i.e. about 10 (to the 360). Therefore, the chance that a particular one would be formed during the lifetime of the galaxy is about 1 in 10 (to the 300) – an extremely small probability (ref 1). Now one can argue about this figure. It increases considerably if you allow that certain permutations on the DNA molecule are equivalent. But then it decreases to a far lower number if you realise that all you have done is produce one gene. Unless other compounds are also present, and indeed many other genes, you will never get even a simple organism. It is absolutely clear that if you put a figure anything like this into Drake's equation it totally swamps all the other numbers.
The probability of getting life anywhere in the universe, let alone our galaxy, is extremely small. The naive but oft repeated argument from the sheer number of stars and planets in the cosmos is defeated.
Originally posted by idonotcollectstamps
I am sure that also being in a coffee shop surrounded by all of the different aromas of coffee, pastries and breakfast sammiches' adds to the experience. Damn I love Funkin Gonuts coffee!
Originally posted by OldThinker
Originally posted by Noncompatible
(oh and NEXT? Really, you must control that ego.)
Yeah, you're probably right....my wife's been telling me that for decades...
My take is: I can be happy or right...
BUT NOT BOTH
Unless other compounds are also present, and indeed many other genes, you will never get even a simple organism.
The probability of getting life anywhere in the universe, let alone our galaxy, is extremely small. The naive but oft repeated argument from the sheer number of stars and planets in the cosmos is defeated."
Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by awake_and_aware
Any comment on all the content I posted?