‘Variability’ % proves God is the SPECIAL CAUSE, skeptics, why are you ignoring?

Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by hippomchippo

 

You have 4k posts from me and 11K replies on ATS, its all there my good adversary

Due to circumstances beyond my control, I have had to rejoin these forums more than once. I will however under this moniker once again reiterate

Say more, post less.

You have failed to prove your "argument" once again OT, you obfuscate , ridicule, type gibberish, quote the Bible amongst other things.
The one thing you do not do however is answer a straight question. You're mildly amusing but far from the enlightenment you claim.

[edit on 1-9-2010 by Noncompatible]

Originally posted by Noncompatible

Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by hippomchippo

 

You have 4k posts from me and 11K replies on ATS, its all there my good adversary

Due to circumstances beyond my control, I have had to rejoin these forums more than once. I will however under this moniker once again reiterate

Say more, post less.

You have failed to prove your "argument" once again OT, you obfuscate , ridicule, type gibberish, quote the Bible amongst other things.
The one thing you do not do however is answer a straight question. You're mildly amusing but far from the enlightenment you claim.

There is a specific reason for that...

"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him." Proverbs 26:4

gonna try this one again...

[edit on 2-9-2010 by OldThinker]

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Noncompatible

Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by hippomchippo

 

You have 4k posts from me and 11K replies on ATS, its all there my good adversary

....You have failed to prove your "argument" once again OT, you obfuscate , ridicule, type gibberish, quote the Bible amongst other things.
The one thing you do not do however is answer a straight question. You're mildly amusing but far from the enlightenment you claim.

There is a specific reason for that...

"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him." Proverbs 26:4

Wow that was a great summary there NOT!

At least he said I was mildly amusing

Not sure about the gibberish and ridicule parts tho

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by OldThinker

 

Are you actually able to respond to someone with a reasoned argument? Are you able to rebut with data and evidence? Maybe even a source?

........

Maybe if you listen to some of the user's arguments you might be able to open your mind and realise that you could be wrong. If you really don't believe you wrong, show us why you think that, with facts, with data or at least with a cogent theory or rebut.....

Answer one: Yes, please ask.

Answer two: I'm listening

Nice questions btw, I notice you are not playing as others have/do/are...

reply to post by OldThinker


Well then, please take a stand and CLEARLY state why you believe the following FACTS are wrong. I expect you to show scientific facts as to why they're wrong and not quote the bible which isn't scientific proof of anything:

- Speciation has been observed in nature and in the lab. Hell, we even have a transitional species still alive, the Platipus!!

- We can trace back human DNA to specific races and gene analysis confirms that we had common ancestors with monkeys.

- There is NO scientific proof for the whole Genesis story. Snakes can't talk, and we know that's not what happened.

- There is NO way Jonah lived in a whale for 30 days! Don't believe me? Go live in a whale for 30 days.

- Given that we know how about the vast amount of different species around the time where Noah apparently took "2 of each" into his ship...the whole story is hogwash. There's no way he would have been fit 2 of each in any type of ship.

My main question is this: Why do you bother criticizing a scientific theory that hasn't been debunked in over 150 years, yet continue to believe in something that has NO PROOF whatsoever. You're applying a double standard, and why? Simply because you are so brainwashed by religion, you want to believe so much, you'd do anything to deceive yourself into believing.

What does ANY of that rant have to do with this thread?????

However when you examine the percent of people using the 94/6 law you find that 96% of the population of earth believe in a God, Gods, Creator, Light Beings, Extraterrestrial Origins, and other unseen entities who are at the origin of life on earth.

That leaves the 6% who are set in their thinking due to a "SPECIAL CAUSE", and I leave it to the reader to postulate on the special cause or causes, who divide into roughly two groups. Agnostic and atheist.

Everyone, in their spiritual, mental, emotional and willful growth and development comes to an epiphany of decision. That decison point for the agnostic is to choose to not decide, and they then perpetuate that indecision with waffeling and vascillation. For the remainder of their struggle.
3% of human populatin choose to postpone the decision waiting for more facts. They are agnostic, and often get tired of vascillations and waffeling.

Of the remaining 97% the next decision is whether there is a divine being(S) who created life and matter. And guess what, the re are 3% who are overwhelmed by the difference between what they can see and what they cannot see. That three percent decide to become atheist, or as the new politically correct term, anti theist. This decision to deny divinity results in them being able to close their mind to any and all explainations. They become at times fanatic in denouncing theism in its many facets. The atheist, being a personality type of primairly narcissism, search the world to support their paradigm, using their God given intelligence to deny any divine reality.

96% then progress a little farther and decide between two choices. One deity or multiple deities.

I will stop here.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Everything.

Lets just get this straight:-

Theory 1: "There is a God" - Unfalsifiable hypothesis - cannot be proved wrong or right, Another example of an unfalsifiable hypothesis would be: "Someone can fly, only when no-one is looking" - Humans using the tool of science cannot validate this hypothesis, this does not nessasarily prove that it ISN'T true.

Theory 2: The Christian God is the true God and he/she/it exists, our religion knows everything about the "true" God, and what it desires, these are the rituals you must perform, here are the stories God wants you to believe, this is the book that consists of truth, because it was written by God, not man.

Theory 2 can be easily falsified simply due to Theory 1 which is the Deist belief and shows we cannot prove God. How do these religious folk know what God is like if no one can prove God, not even scientists?!

To summarise
Deism - Unable to disprove or prove.
Theism (Allah, Yahweh, Zeus, Thor, Amen Ra etc.) - easily proved to be false, written by man, not God. i.e. Man's interpretation of the very thing we can't prove exists.

Also, no scientist, mathematician, philosopher, theologian has never ultimately concluded the existence of God, why would we take religions word for what God is, and how he/she/it works.

I'd even go as far as to say that the majority of scientists are doubtful of any religion, or even God (see Stephen Hawking's thoughts). I can get surveys to back this up, if you require evidence or data. See, I don't just say things without knowing there is sufficient evidence or reason to back up my claim or statement.

Now please, keep the civil veneer and the smug comments to yourself and kindly rebut my argument with reason, logic and possibly some evidence of God, although we all know this is impossible.

Looking foward to your reasoned and well thought-out response.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by OldThinker

 

Well then, please take a stand and CLEARLY state why you believe the following FACTS are wrong. I expect you to show scientific facts as to why they're wrong and not quote the bible which isn't scientific proof of anything:

- Speciation has been observed in nature and in the lab. Hell, we even have a transitional species still alive, the Platipus!!

Why such narrow thinking?

Let me see you prove/test WIND in a test tube? without it be ORCHESTRATED

Or for that matter LOVE...

Watch this: www.amazon.com...

CONTACT

A reader's comment:

This was a very intriguing movie! I thought Jodie Foster and Matthew McConaughey had great chemistry on screen as Ellie Arroway and Palmer Joss. Some of their conversations brought age-old debates to the forefront. I was particularly interested in the disagreement they had on religion and God. Ellie made the point that as a scientist, she could only believe in what she could see and equate facts with.

Palmer then asked her if she loved her father that had passed away when she was a child, to which she replied yes. Palmer looks directly at Ellie, and said, "prove it".

To Readers: Can someone find that clip please, I couldn't...thank you

Originally posted by MrXYZ

- We can trace back human DNA to specific races and gene analysis confirms that we had common ancestors with monkeys.

Relevancy?

Point?

What does that PROVE?

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by OldThinker

 

Well then, please take a stand and CLEARLY state....

I was actually talking with A%A then, but I'll still answer you

OT

Originally posted by slugger9787
However when you examine the percent of people using the 94/6 law you find that 96% of the population of earth believe in a God, Gods, Creator, Light Beings, Extraterrestrial Origins, and other unseen entities who are at the origin of life on earth.

That leaves the 6% who are set in their thinking due to a "SPECIAL CAUSE", and I leave it to the reader to postulate on the special cause or causes, who divide into roughly two groups. Agnostic and atheist.

Interesting theory my friend....

I'm going to have to think hard on this one...I'll get back with more later...

OT

PS: One quick thought, could there be more to it than 'believing' cause Satan believes in Jesus, they've met

hm?

Glad you came by my thread, you are always welcome

reply to post by OldThinker


It's not interesting at all. Appeal to majority is not a reason for believing in something. It's a fail argument.

The Agnostic and the Atheist have no evidence at which to base a belief in any God, that is the reason they do not believe. Provide evidence, and we will believe in God.

If science ever discovers "GOD" do you really think the Atheist or the Agnostic would still refuse to believe in God? If science does discover God, i can safely assume it would be nothing like an angry/tyranous God that any man has thought of, or written about. Science probably won't try to give it emotions either.

We would accept it, we would say "Sorry, we were wrong" That is science.

Don't ever be fooled by someone who states "Well loads of people believe it so" unless there is conviction of evidence, water-tight, irrefutable, undeniable evidence.

It's funny though, if the evidence of the Christian God came about, i would still resent the God if what is said in the bible about him/her/it is true. You only have to do some reading to hate that God.


[edit on 2/9/10 by awake_and_aware]

[edit on 2/9/10 by awake_and_aware]

Originally posted by OldThinker

This was a very intriguing movie! I thought Jodie Foster and Matthew McConaughey had great chemistry on screen as Ellie Arroway and Palmer Joss. Some of their conversations brought age-old debates to the forefront. I was particularly interested in the disagreement they had on religion and God. Ellie made the point that as a scientist, she could only believe in what she could see and equate facts with.

Palmer then asked her if she loved her father that had passed away when she was a child, to which she replied yes. Palmer looks directly at Ellie, and said, "prove it".

To Readers: Can someone find that clip please, I couldn't...thank you

There is nothing easier to observe than ones own emotions. I feel them, I can observe their effect on myself. Belief is not required.

I do not "believe" I am unhappy when I am unhappy, I know, due to the obvious effect.Again observable to the tester (ones self).

Though, frankly, at best that is a spurious argument on your part.

100 % of all people who live, have lived and will live will have an epiphany of decisionmaking. A decision about divinity.

At that point 3% will decide to make no decision, they are of the school of NATURALISM, more spcifically AGNOSTIC. This leaves 97%.

97% make the decision.

3% decide there is no deity, they are of the school NATURALISM, and more specifically ATHEIST. This leaves 94%.

Of the 94% the deity decision is beween two points.
Point one is there are multiple deities.
Point two is there is only one deiy.

Those who choose multiple deities are of the school POLYTHEISM, and more specifically HINDUISM, MORMONISM, NEO-PAGANISM, WICCA, SPIRITISM, MYSTICISM.

Those who choose only one deity are of the school MOMOTHEISM, and more specifically, PANTHEISM, PANENTHEISM, FINITE THEISM, DEISM AND THEISM.

The next decison is whether the deity FINITE OR INFINITE AND PERSONAL OR IMPERSONAL.

Those who choose a finite deity are of the school PANENTHEISM (IMPERSONAL) AND FINITE GODISM (PERSONAL).

Those who choose an infinite deity are of the school PANTHEISM (IMPERSONAL), THEISM, DEISM AND UNITARIANISM (PERSONAL).

Those who choose a personal deity then must decide about miracles.

Those who choose no miracles are of the school DEISM.
Those who choose miracles are of the school THEISM.

The next decision is the nature of the deity.
The nature is defined between two points, TRIUNE VERSUS UNIPERSONAL.

Those who choose unipersonal diety are of the school UNITARIANISM. Those who choose TRIUNE are of the school CHRISTIAN THEISM.





[edit on 2-9-2010 by slugger9787]

reply to post by slugger9787


"I do have a test today, that wasn't bs. It's on European socialism. I mean, really, what's the point? I'm not European. I don't plan on being European. So who gives a crap if they're socialists? They could be fascist anarchists, it still doesn't change the fact that I don't own a car. Not that I condone fascism, or any -ism for that matter. -Ism's in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism, he should believe in himself. I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me." Good point there. After all, he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people. " -Ferris Bueller

Epic Post BTW. So many options to pick from. Like choosing doughnuts at Krispy Kreme (or Dunkin Donuts if you prefer).

Ill take the chocolate sprinkles with the Scientology Creme filling. Om Nom Nom.

Originally posted by MrXYZ


- There is NO scientific proof for the whole Genesis story. Snakes can't talk, and we know that's not what happened.

MrXYZ, Ah, you are not really looking…kinda likes their thieves aren’t lookin for the police…doesn’t mean that ain’t there :O

Here’s some things to think about:

Scientific Truth , Bible Verse , Date ‘scientists’ discovered.

Both man and woman possess the seed of life , Genesis 3:15 , 17th Century

There is a place void of stars in the North , Job 26:7 , 19th Century

Earth is held in place by invisible forces , Job 26:7 , 1650

Taxonomic classification of matter , Genesis 1 , 1735

The Earth is round , Isaiah 40:22 , 15th Century

Day and night occur simultaneously on Earth , Luke 17:34 , 15th Century

Certain animals carry diseases harmful to man , Leviticus 11 , 16th Century

Early diagnosis of leprosy , Leviticus 13 , 17th Century

Quarantine for disease control , Leviticus 13 , 17th Century

Blood of animals carries diseases , Leviticus 17 , 17th Century

Blood is necessary for life , Leviticus 17:11 , 19th Century

Oceans have natural paths in them , Psalms 8:8 , 1854

Earth was in nebular form initially , Genesis 1:2 , 1911

Most seaworthy ship design ratio is 30:5:3 , Genesis 6 , 1860

Light is a particle and has mass (a photon) , Job 38:19 , 1932

Radio astronomy (stars give off signals) , Job 38:7 , 1945

Oceans contain fresh water springs , Job 38:16 , 1920

Snow has material value , Job 38:22 , 1905, 1966

Infinite number of stars exist , Genesis 15:5 , 1940

Dust is important to survival , Isaiah 40:12 , 1935

Hubert Spencer's scientific principles , Genesis 1 , 1820

Air has weight , Job 28:25 , 16th Century

Light can be split up into component colors , Job 38:24 , 1650

Matter is made up of invisible particles , Romans 1:20 , 20th Century

Plants use sunlight to manufacture food , Job 8:16 , 1920

Arcturus and other stars move through space , Job 38:32 , 19th Century

Water cycle , Ecclesiastes 1:7 , 17th Century

Life originated in the sea , Genesis 1 , 19th Century

Lightning and thunder are related , Job 38:25 , 19th Century

Man was the last animal created , Genesis 1 , 15th Century

A%A, you reading this, too?

Originally posted by idonotcollectstamps
So many options to pick from. Like choosing doughnuts at Krispy Kreme (or Dunkin Donuts if you prefer).

Dude, I love DD's coffee...

You?

reply to post by awake_and_aware


1. God creates the heavens (the universe, stars, sun, moon) and the earth. The universe had a finite beginning. Genesis 1:1

Fact: Scientists also agree that the universe had a finite beginning starting with the Big Bang.



2. The earth was covered in water and darkness was over the water. Genesis 1:2

Fact: Research has confirmed both theoretically and observationally (via studies of Earth’s oldest rocks) that indeed water initially covered most of the earth’s crust. The first atmosphere was also full of volcanic debris and other harmful gases from the initial creation that would have prevented any light from coming through it.




3. God allows light to permeate through the darkness unto the earth. Genesis 1:3

Fact: After a while, the solar winds would have blown away the volcanic debris and gases exposing some light in the first atmosphere. Scientists also agree that light would have been the first thing needed to conduct plant life through photosynthesis and heat up the earth.




4. God creates thick clouds or water vapor in the earth’s atmosphere. Genesis 1: 6-7

Fact: Scientists agree that the earth would require a stable water cycle of condensation and future precipitation for life’s survival. This water vapor cover would be an ideal environment (greenhouse) for growing plants, trapping heat and melting ice. Also known as the second atmosphere, this vapor layer was so thick that the stars, sun and moon were not clearly visible.




5. God separates the dry land from the water in one place. Genesis 1: 9-10

Fact: Most scientists agree that the land was one land mass called Pangaea that formed out of the water then split apart to make the other continents





6. God creates plants on earth. Genesis 1: 11-12

Fact: Scientists agree that plants were the first living organisms to colonize the earth before the complex land animals (deer, fox, bear) and fish. Plant life is crucial for the creation of oxygen, the removal of carbon dioxide, and creating sugars and food for the mammals.



7. God clears the clouds and allows the sun, moon and stars to be discernible in the skies and to mark the days and seasons. Genesis 1: 14-16

Fact: In the first and second atmospheres a water vapor canopy, gases, and other debris surrounded the earth. After the plants started to develop, these dense atmospheres diminished (exposing the stars, sun and moon) as the plants produced enough oxygen to produce our third atmosphere which includes the ozone layer which now protects us from the ultraviolet radiation. The ozone layer is critical for sustaining life and giving us clear skies to see the heavens





8. God creates marine life. Genesis 1: 20-22

Fact: Most scientists agree that marine life did indeed arise before the land animals and man. With light, breathable air, dry land, oceans, plants, water cycles, and an ozone layer to protect them, the world is now ready for sea creatures and animals and eventually humans.





9. God creates animals. Genesis 1: 24-25

Fact: Scientists agree that virtually every animal phyla (including chordates and many phyla now extinct) appeared during a short geological moment.




10. God creates mankind. Genesis 1: 26-27

Fact: According to the geologic time scale, scientists agree that mankind was one of the last mammals created on the earth. Exactly like the Genesis account.

The scientific proof for Genesis
by Gman » Fri May 22, 2009 10:48 am