Oliver Stone: Jewish control of the media is preventing free Holocaust debate

reply to post by undo


stalin was an ally at the time, wasn't he? that makes all the difference in the world, dontcha know? It's okay if allies kill people in the name of what we believe in, I guess.

reply to post by BigfootNZ


Well I'll agree on the fact that Hitler wanted Stalin out of his hair. Stalin on the other hand was also eying Eastern Europe. Poland was to be split between the two.

Stalin was no saint by any stretch of the imagination.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Stone makes a good point for the most part.

You really cannot argue against the fact that the media is controlled by Jewish owners, and the the Israeli lobbyists in the United States are quite powerful.

Yes, Hitler DID have support from various businessmen around the world, including those in the United States (Prescott Bush) although that really shouldn't come as too much of a surprise.

As far as keeping honest discussion about the Holocaust from the public, I think there seems to certainly be a control on how it is handled in Hollywood. Certainly those in the media want to maintain how it is viewed and what is acceptable in terms of adding or removing certain historical aspects that Israel/Jews have always maintained as fact.

Originally posted by skajkingdom
Why does tellin the truth make him a jew hater?

I think this was explained quite well to Amy Goodman by former Israeli Minister Shulamit Aloni when asked why people who criticize Israels' actions in general are accused of being Anti-Semitic.



I am sure though that everyone I mentioned in this post will be accused of being antisemitic, alongside myself.

Oh well.

- Lee

reply to post by ~Lucidity


to me i don't think there was ally and axis powers. i think it was massive, violent social engineering, made to look like war.

reply to post by undo

I agree there are some suspicious circumstances, including this whole holocaust debate, that that point to these very things. And America is a failing experiment too.

Just remember..... He who wins the war, Writes the History books... Enough said.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


bad thoughts cross my mind when i read what stalin did in the shadows of hitler's fame. i keep thinking that hitler probably had troops he didn't want around anymore, so sent them to the russian front. let them be responsible for the german genocide in russia, and then right on queue, stalin finally snaps out of it, and kills them all, turns back the advance and most of them die.

this is how most wars look to me. a way to get rid of people in your own lands that you don't want around anymore. the leaders make deals with each other behind the scenes and when the dust clears, they're all bound to each other by mutual agreement to genocide each other's irritants. saddam, for example, is probably on some tropical island living out the rest of his life in comfort.

a world order is, afterall, a "world" order.

I can see this thread disintegrating into a contest over believers and non-believers of the Holocaust and how many millions were really killed, as if 3 million is better than 6 million or 12 million total victims.

Chances are, I'm the only one within this thread that has actually spoken to camp survivors and asked some hard questions. That withstanding go ahead and bicker.

The real question is about Oliver Stone. So now he's making a documentary putting himself "in context" with Hitler and Stalin. It's hard to put him "in context" with his comments without evoking several derogatory adjectives, but that's okay. We'll treat him seriously and let him present a paranoid dictator and a delusional paranoid dictator. It doesn't seem to matter to him that there are two completely different political aspects involved with countries that had an 18th century economy and a country with an early 20th century economy.

Since he's using these fine outstanding leaders as examples, and is tying in WW1, he shouldn't be using the Treaty of Versailles as that dealt with Western powers. Russia and Germany had their own treaty, but we knew that.

Here's the problem with his concept. He is using Hitler and Stalin because these are two truly reprehensible people that history has already determined their standing. He is now trying to place their values onto the Western powers from WW1 without knowing history except for his warped, perceived revisionist theories. Using Hitler and Stalin is just a shock value for the younger kids who don't know crap about history

Go ahead and share some insight Oliver.

It just seems he's more concerned about the Jewish conspiracy within the USA and getting his words out on this than his documentary.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Gorman91
The rest died from the camp's missions. Like the illegal aliens in America, it is impossible to officially mark how many.

I would strongly disagree with that analogy.
I've met a few Holocaust Survivors. They all had their "Members Only" Tattoos.

The Nazi's were fanatical about accurate counts.
This is why I question those non believers who doubt the figure of 6 million Jews dying. For the record I also believe Millions of Poles, Russians etc also died. So why is it so hard to believe that 6 millions Jews also perished.

I just don't understand why people want to argue against that fact.
This isn't a pissing contest or argument over of who had more killed. It's an acceptance that tens of millions died. Which includes 6 million Jews as well.

Remember that joke in Pirates of the Caribbean, where they say the pirate ship kills everyone in the city it pillages, and Jack Spirow asks, then how could the story get out if there were no survivors? If this was a holocaust, how are there survivors? And if you were going to a gas chamber in order to be killed, so quickly that camps seem to compete with each other on how fast each prisoner was killed, as some posters are saying, or that some generals brag about how many they kill, why would you take the time to tattoo each prisoner? Also, why would you take the time to cut each prisoners hair? There are quotes of hair cutters in the camps saying they had to do it quickly because there was a long line, imagine the equally long line of waiting to get tattooed. Plus, certain aspects of the holocaust story say that the prisoners didn't know what was going on, which is why they thought they were getting a shower but instead were gassed. This of course contradicts the often quoted saying where a holocaust survivor recounts a tale of someone pointing to smoke and saying 'there's your parents, you'll join them soon.' So, did the prisoners know they were going to get killed, or not? Was it done quickly, or did they have enough time to get a hair cut and tattooed? Also, how is it that if this is a death camp, prisoners were allowed to stay alive so long they atrophied from starvation?

I'm not denying there are survivors who have tattoos on their arms, all I'm saying is the fact that they survived means it wasn't a holocaust. In Africa there are massacres, during the bombings in Europe and the bombs dropped on Japan, those were massacres. None surviving. Not so many that they could make movies about them. I'm just saying, not to be insensitive to anyone that survived that, I see it as no real different than modern day fema camps, everyone's denying those too, I guess they'll deny them until they wind up in one.

reply to post by Molan27

Just remember..... He who wins the war, Writes the History books... Enough said.

His Story = History

Funny thing that huh.

reply to post by undo

My grandfather told some stories of exactly that. How they were sent purposely by their commanders to be ambushed...thousands of them. I wish I had had more context in which to place these stories when he was still around. Every generation loses a little bit more of the real, eyewitness history, doesn't it?

reply to post by hinky

Um...wow...I was BORN to camp survivors. And I was going to stop reading there, but I thought that would be beyond ignorant, so I read the rest. It had nothing really to do with camp survivors or how they might feel about what Oliver is doing. The ones I know and listened to all my life would totally agree with him.

reply to post by c g henderson


In layman's terms:

upload.wikimedia.org...

reply to post by SLAYER69


Because their Jews, simply. Kill +35 million Native Americans, no one cares. Kill 6 million Jews? OMG Get me the sources, I challenge that! durka du, de hurp durp.

So yea, pretty much it is safe to call is racism.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


A person has to wonder why the "evidence" 'for' is always so suspicious.
and it may explain why questioners are always faced with hateful opinionated invective but never quality proof.

A bunch of camp survivors are saying Ely Weisel is not the Weisel they knew in the camp and have asked him to show his tatoo because they have his number...
www.henrymakow.com...

So far he has refused this simple honest request.

Makes a body wonder why

It was a miracle. According to The New York Times of Sunday, January 4, 1987, celebrated survivor Elie Wiesel recalled "the day the Soviets arrived at Auschwitz." Then, in a speech to the National Press Club in Washington D.C., reported by the Jewish Telegraph Agency on April 11, 1983, he had a different recollection. He noted that he was "one of the survivors liberated at Dachau by the U.S. Army" on April 15, 1945—and thus became the only prisoner of war to hold the distinction of being liberated from two different camps in World War II!

www.arguewitheveryone.com...

Go to the link where the links to his different stories are contained.




[edit on 26-7-2010 by Danbones]

reply to post by Gorman91


reply to post by Gorman91


Thank you for your reply. However, in his article, Brian Levin, JD,Director, gives only his opinions, but provides no evidence whatsoever to back up his statements.

And I strongly take issue with his claim that: The facts of the Holocaust are important for us to internalize as a society..." This seems very, very unhealthy to me, no matter how he qualifies this in the next part of his paragraph. I for one, want to free myself from the way we have already been forced to internalise it. Moreover, as a psychological principle, internalising negative events is known to have a very had effect on one's psychological and emotional well being.

As for your second link, surely you don't really expect me to take that seriously. You cannot possibly claim that a lesson plan, drawn up by the International School for Holocaust Studies, is a piece of historical evidence.
And once again, it is an example of the same story being peddled as fact.

The logic seems to be 'Because we say it is true, it is true, and anyone who disputes what we say is a Jew hater and any evidence which proves the story is not accurate will be ignored.'

To simply state something is a fact, does not make it a fact. We can only show something is factually accurate by providing real evidence.

OK, I have done you the courtesy of reading the information on the links you provided. I would like to request that you now do me the same courtesy and read the information provided on the links I posted earlier.

Now, on that issue of hatred, I would like to express my anger that whilst the Jewish people so readily reply to criticism with cries of 'Anti-semitism' and 'Jew-Hater', why is Jewish hatred of Gentiles NEVER EVER discussed or reported????

See some videos below:

How the Jews treat Christians in Israel?
www.youtube.com...

Jewish hatred for non-Jews:
www.youtube.com...

How the Jews treat Christians in Israel:
www.youtube.com...

Feeling the hate in Tel Aviv
www.youtube.com...

If that had happened in reverse, if Christians had reviled Jews and their religion in this abominable way, there would have been an outcry by the Jews, and the prepetrators would have been arrested.

So, I have called on Jewish hatred of non-Jews, specifically Jewish hatred of Christians and Muslims, and I have given you evidence.

In what way is this hatred any different from anti-semitism???

reply to post by wcitizen


You links do not prove the holocaust did not happen. Several million survivors and witnesses do.

I could care less how Israel treats its fellow man. as Far as I'm concerned, Israel and Palestine are war hungry fools in love with hell. They can enjoy the destruction both sides voted for.

Now please stay at topic. Because That has nothing to do with the holocaust numbers.

And I really don't care to debate these things. Because for these issues, it essentially is I say it's right so go away. Because there's millions of people saying it so. If a million people say they saw a sunrise and one person does not, that does not mean we should have debates on weather or not the sun rises.

That is retarded. Like this whole discussion.

reply to post by Danbones


Like I said. One person messes up, so a million people are wrong.
*SNIP*

[edit on 26-7-2010 by Gorman91]

Mod Edit: Please Review the Following Link: Courtesy Is Mandatory

[edit on Mon Aug 23 2010 by DontTreadOnMe]

And if this isn't hatred, I don't know what is:

Exposing the dark side of Zionist Israel:

www.youtube.com...

Now, if I criticise these Jews (in this video and the videos in previous post) for their hatred of Christians and Muslims, are you going to accuse ME of hatred and of anti-semitism??



[edit on 26-7-2010 by wcitizen]

reply to post by Danbones

I've heard about that one before. Kind of disturbing to think of the lengths some people might go to for their cause.

I grew up in the Catskills, and knew plenty of both Jewish and non-Jewish survivors of the camps. To a one, they were happy to be alive, and all had some very interesting stories of survival to tell...some more mundane and some pretty crazy, like stealing skiis and outskiing some Nazis chasing them and shooting at them. They weren't after revenge or vengeance. But some are.

One of my parents' friends is to this day sitting in a detention center in FL because he was hunted down by the Nazi Hunters. No country will have him. In a nutshell, he was not German, he was a kid at the time of the war...16-17 tops, and he had a gun pointed to his head saying guard these people or die. they made the last 20 years of his life a living hell. The pope gets away with being a Nazi Youth but a camp inmate told to guard people gets this. I guess we'll never know the whole story, but we can get enough glimpses into it to know that not everything was at it appears, particularly not from those with agendas beyond the truth.

reply to post by wcitizen


Zionist Israel Is a redundant statement. It literally means "supporting a state for Israel Israel". Try nationalistic Israel. That is correct grammatically.

Also the state of Israel is not related to holocaust debate.