Oliver Stone: Jewish control of the media is preventing free Holocaust debate

reply to post by Gorman91


fliiby.com...
Shows the scan of a hebrew or jewish magazine of the day which would be biased I would think....

the authenticty of the magazine is not questioned because there are too may copies kicking around.

also

the six million prophesy is not from the bible it is talmudic

next


PS the links to these things have been posted many times and one wonders why they must be posted again and again to people who won't even check, and dismiss them with no proof.
Oh i get it...Tacit agreement Oliver stone was right..wink wink nudge nudge.

reply to post by Danbones


Funny. Never says that 6 million died.

Also, I'd like to see the specific part in the Talmud on the 6 million in words.

[edit on 26-7-2010 by Gorman91]

reply to post by Son of Will


Enough of your stereotypical, volatile, emotional responses of 'Jew hater' to anyone who voices an informed criticism of the dominance of Jews in US politics.

Your puerile attempts at emotional blackmail no longer wash with many thinking people.

These vile knee-jerk attacks of 'anti-semite', 'jew hater' have worked in the past, but no longer.

Do you think I care a jot whether you think reasonable people having a reasoned discussion are 'jew haters' simply because they don't see you as the 'poor victims' any longee? An increasing number of people are seeing through the pathetic Jewish pantomime and your psyhotic need to always present yourselves as the victims.

Time to ditch that particular tactic....it ain't workin any more.

The Jews have milked the holocaust for all it is worth, and more. It has literally made them billions and billions of dollars, and has enabled them, through emotional blackmail and playing the victim, to get away with things which no other country or people would ever have got away with.
US alone has given Israel literally hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars, and continues to subsidise Israel even today, when the country is broke and American people are facing dire economic hardship.

See: US Aid: The Facts
windowintopalestine.blogspot.com...

The holocaust has also been a hugely successful commercial enterprise, and has brought in further billions through hundreds of holocaust films, novels, holocaust tourism, etc, etc.

But the worst thing of all is that there is NO evidence to support the claim that 6 million jews died in the holocaust. In fact, there is NO evidence to support the claim that there was a holocaust at all.

Through the emotional blackmail which has been wielded by the Jewish community worldwide against ANYONE who dare question their version of events (just like your own earlier post)this subject has NOT been adequately or publicly scrutinised.

See: 'Facts to Consider About the Holocaust'
www.jewwatch.com...

In this collection of articles and data you will see REAL evidence, from official and unbiased sources, which seriously contradicts and disproves the Jewish version of events.

How come the Jews never say a word about the fact that in WWII there were 307 dead Christians for every dead Jew.

How come the numbers of the holocaust victims continue to decrease on the MEMORIAL PLAQUE OUTSIDE AUSCHWITZ? Even Jewish historians dispute the widely pedalled 6 million dead, so much so that the plaque outside Auschwitz has been changed. From the initial plaque which stated that 4 million had been killed at Auschwitz, it has now been downsized and today it gives a figure of 'about 1.5 million. Even this figure is unsupported by any evidence.

For pictures of the plaques, showing the change in numbers, see:
www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com...

And for the farcical decrease in the accepted number of actual deaths, see:
www.rense.com...

So, call me Jew hater if you want. Your crocodile tears are of no importance to me. You want to exempt yourselves from all criticism, and you wield inaccurate, possibly fabricated historical events to do so. Why don't you stop cowering behind this threadbare excuse and actually look at the facts.

I have substantiated my point of view with information from objective and some official sources. Now, what evidence can you produce to support your ridiculous claim of hatred?

Here is the facts as i see them,

After Nuremberg the consensus was that 6 million Jews died in WW2. Of this number 4 million were credited to dying at Auschwitz, As seen in the plaque displayed at Auschwitz and posted below.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f2fab6f3325b.gif[/atsimg]

Then after a revision, the total number of all peoples who died at Auschwitz was reduced to 1.5 million, as seen in the new plaque displayed there, and posted below.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/40899421db1b.gif[/atsimg]


So simple maths says only 3.5 million Jews died in WW2.....No ?


Although had i publicly stated this in, say Austria, I could be prosecuted.




[edit on 26-7-2010 by ken10]

reply to post by SpectreDC


This may not be the article you were thinking of, but what you said reminded me of this pragraph from:
www.jewwatch.com...

"Jews complained about a holocaust in 1919! "Six million men and women are dying ... eight hundred thousand children cry for bread. And this fate is upon them through no fault of their own, ... but through the awful tyranny of war and a bigoted lust for Jewish blood. In this threatened holocaust of human life ..." --The American Hebrew (New York, issue 582 of October 31, 1919) The Talmud also has atrocity claims which demonstrate the Jewish mentality: Gittin 57b claims that four billion Jews were killed by the Romans in the city of Bethar. Gittin 58a claims that 16 million Jewish children were wrapped in scrolls and burned alive by the Romans."

Looks as though they have been running this '6 million killed in a holocaust' story for centuries!

[edit on 26-7-2010 by wcitizen]

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
reply to post by filosophia

 

(50-70 million soldiers as opposed to 6 million Jews, which is an inflated number when you look at the evidence).

I do not know if i a, to be happy or sad. Happy because person that is arguing for deniers allows himself to claim that there were 50-70 millions soldiers killed. Or sad that people do not care about history at all, they just want to prove that Jews lied.
If you respect yourself, at least check some numbers that do not concern evil lying Jews.. 50-70 million soldiers........ At least you find Holocaust funny.

can you rephrase your post, I couldn't understand any of it. Are you saying the 50-70 million number is not accurate? I'm not saying it is hard and fast doctrine (like 6 million :@@, but yeah, I couldn't understand much of what you were trying to say.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by filosophia

 

Don't for a minute go so totally the other way as to forget the actual atrocities that were committed during this war and in these camps. My grandmother, aunt, and mother, none of them any of the stereotypical target groups, starved for a year in three different concentration camps and were separated from my grandfather for what turned out to be 10 years. My aunt and mother played on a pile of dead bodies when word came that the liberators were approaching and the nazis fled in mid-killing.

They did execute people...but all people, of all religions and all nationalities and beliefs. Entire villages were rounded up and sent to camps. Millions upon millions lost their homes. My own family lost their farm and the ruby mine on it. It was not a horror perpetrated on one religion. That is a flat out lie.

That the Jews cast aside their nationalities and separated themselves out (Russians, Germans, Austrians, Ukrainians, Poles, and Jews of many, many other nationalities) and made this their cause was a brilliant stroke of PR. It is also probably where half these myths came from. It is however not a real reflection of history and it is an injustice to all the others who suffered and died to not only continually thrust this into the forefront as the prevailing issue and history, but also to silence those who have disagreed and still do.

[edit on 7/26/2010 by ~Lucidity]

as I said, most people will never understand the truth of the holocaust because they assume you are either 100 percent for the official story or 100 percent against it. If someone were to call you a 9/11 denier for not believing the official story, does that mean you deny that towers fell that day?

I never said no one was hurt. That is you going so totally the other way that you misconstrue what I am trying to say.

reply to post by filosophia

 

I'd imagine more people died in the war because they had guns. But maybe I'm just being silly.

Oh yes, look at those evil prisoners at war. Who knows what they might do? They might THROUGH their babies at us!

if more of those prisoners had guns, maybe they wouldn't have been sent to the prison camps in the first place. And no, babies aren't terrorists, so please try telling Israel and the Israeli defenders that one. They routinely claim that Palestinians are terrorists, even the little ones.

[edit on 26-7-2010 by filosophia]

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Danbones

 

Funny. Never says that 6 million died.

strawman arguement
no one said it did it shows the attenpt to utilize the prophesy.

Also, I'd like to see the specific part in the Talmud on the 6 million in words.

straw man arguement
"talmudic"
go look then
it has been posted many time from jewish sources


[edit on 26-7-2010 by Danbones]

reply to post by Gorman91


Instead of just repeating that 6 million Jews died - go get some evidence to support your statement, because even the Auschwitz memorial plaque disagrees with you.

The emotional hysteria which this topic elicits in the Jewish quarter has made people even afraid to discuss it for years and years.

Now that taboo is being broken, the facts and the discrepancies are becoming much more widely known, and I applaud Oliver Stone for his efforts to support and further our much needed liberation from Jewish oppression.

In the meantime, why don't you go and fine some evidence to back up your unfounded and inaccurate claim.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


personally, i think it was an attempt by ashkenazi jews, particularly atheistic jews, to wipe out sephardic jews, knowing that the end of the war would usher in a return to israel, and not wanting to have the place repopulated with practicing sephardis.

it wasn't long after the holocaust began in germany, that a similar one started in russia. so they were working hard to wipe out an entire religious faction of the jewish faith. at least, that's what my research seems to suggest. of course, it could be totally wrong, but kinda fits in with the reports from israel about religious segregation.

reply to post by Danbones


You posted it from a previous discussion. The topic was if 6 million had claimed to have died before and as we can see, the answer is no. They were dying, not dead. I fail to see the strawman in the other statement.



reply to post by wcitizen


officially 1.1 million people are estimated to have died at Auschwitz. Rudolf Höss loved to talk about it and flat out said the camp had limits to how many people it could kill. SO half a million died naturally, whatever that means. The rest died from the camp's missions. Like the illegal aliens in America, it is impossible to officially mark how many. But you can estimate it pretty damn close. And besides, once you've killed a million, does it matter? You still committed genocide. 1.1 is the official mark though. This comes from Rudolf Höss and what little documents remain. The fact that these people who build and designed it there say this proved it was a death camp designed to kill, and proves that that was their mission.

However, that camp was not alone. the total number of people killed was well over 10 million and of those 6 million were Jews definably.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

www1.yadvashem.org...

From available records, it is officially 5,933,900 Jews killed. If more papers are found, they will be added. The dropped number is from the estimates to factual data.

We see this happen all the time , like how we thought there were only a few million Illegal aliens, but once we got some actual data, it turned out to be 20 million.

Current data is no longer all estimates. Much of it is solid documentation from those whom hated the Jews themselves who would probably raise the number, and others who would probably lower it. The fact that they match up proves biases did not come through.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


You are making some huge assumptions in your interpretation of those figures, specifically:

- That the 1.3 million Jews who disappeared from Poland all ended up in concentration camps.
(We know that hundreds of thousands of Jews left Poland and went to live in other countries)

- That those Polish Jews who did end up in concentration camps all died in the concentration camps, and none escaped alive.
(Available evidence doesn't support this interpretation),

- That all those who did die in the concentration camps were murdered by the Nazis (as opposed to dying of disease and other causes)
(Red Cross data from WWII does not support this interpretation).

reply to post by filosophia


I didn't and haven't gone totally the other way at all. You're the one who laughed and said they had swimming pools. I am by NO means "totally one way" and by evidence please read my other posts in this thread.

I was agreeing with you in part, but also reminding you it was no freaking picnic. Your 9/11 comparisons are way off base in the context of this discussion between you and me here in this thread.

[edit on 7/26/2010 by ~Lucidity]

hitler and stalin had a non-aggression pact, and then for some reason, hitler decided to invade. as his troops made their way to moscow, they burnt and pillaged jewish villages, killed a bunch and took prisoners. they were supposedly stopped just short of moscow due to weather conditions. the story was that hitler's troops couldn't navigate the snow. my question is, how is it soldiers from a country with mountains and snow, didn't know how to fight in snow? it makes zero sense.

to me that suggests hitler and stalin were in on it, together, and stalin was not even remotely surprised by the invasion, even though they say he was so taken aback by it, he didn't respond for quite some time. riiiight.

[edit on 26-7-2010 by undo]

Originally posted by patmac

wiki.answers.com...

Jews- 5.9 million
Soviet POW's- 3.3 million
Non-Jewish Poles- 1.8-2 million
Romanis ('gypsies')- 220,000- 270,000 (but even the higher figure may be too low)
Disabled- 200,000 - 250,000
Homosexuals- 5,000 - 15,000
Jehovahs Witnesses- 2,500 - 5,000

Not really gonna get into this debate, but there is one thing I find NOST unusual that ive noticed over the years of watching WW2 Documentaries... when ever the holocaust is brought up in television, a good 90% of it ONLY mentions the 6 million jewish deaths... very rarely do those other 5+ million deaths ever get mentioned in talk of the Holocaust in televised media... Why?

Its a real annoyance with me, since it basically makes it out and perpetrates the idea the Holocaust was purely a jewish directed endeavor (by that I mean it was directed only towards the jews), when Hitler dispised the Bolsheviks, Chekz etc as much as he did the jews. Hell the first mobile killing vans as a precursor to the camps where tried out on German mental patiences.

Personally I hope they do bring up debate about the involvement of Britain and America in propping up Hitler in the early years... there is blood on the hands of some very powerful people, industry giants and families today, who never payed the piper for their dealings.

Simple fact, that many know nothing about, or dont want to know about... for what ever reason.

Originally posted by undo
hitler and stalin had a non-aggression pact, and then for some reason, hitler decided to invade.

Hitler only did that to keep Russia out of his hair, prior to that time Russia had been asking Britain and others to ally with them, but they refused to get involved or side with Russia... so what was the next best thing?.. start trading with the guy so he wouldnt bother with you, and stopped him moving further east.

Regardless of this, Hitler was and always would attack Russia eventually, the guy hated them, and if I remember my readings he found them even worse than the jews on some levels... he was stupid enough and impatient enough and egotistical enough to do so well before he should have, and thank god for that or things might have been quite different. Only two things helped win the war... Russia and Hitlers overwhelming stupidity.


[edit on 26-7-2010 by BigfootNZ]

Originally posted by Gorman91
The rest died from the camp's missions. Like the illegal aliens in America, it is impossible to officially mark how many.

I would strongly disagree with that analogy.
I've met a few Holocaust Survivors. They all had their "Members Only" Tattoos.

The Nazi's were fanatical about accurate counts.
This is why I question those non believers who doubt the figure of 6 million Jews dying. For the record I also believe Millions of Poles, Russians etc also died. So why is it so hard to believe that 6 millions Jews also perished.

I just don't understand why people want to argue against that fact.
This isn't a pissing contest or argument over of who had more killed. It's an acceptance that tens of millions died. Which includes 6 million Jews as well.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by peck420

 

Well you know how when we look at the Earth, we find more and more fossils the longer we look? Thus raising the biodiversity of the planet?

Same principle. The longer you look, the more accurate you get.

How so? If I may ask.

How is it getting more accurate. Are they finding more corpses? Are they uncovering long buried camps and digging them out to find more dead bodies?

reply to post by BigfootNZ


so you honestly believe hitler's troops couldn't invade moscow cause they didn't know how to fight in snow? you really believe, that the guy (stalin) who made up a new list every day of people to kill, who sent his own to work camps in siberia by the train load, where they died enmasse from lack of nutrition, lack of medical care, who deliberately starved to death the farmers, first by forcing them to give the government all their crops, then by taking all their seed so they could never grow a crop again, who had his troops invade towns in his own country, kill the people and take all their possessions, including family photos and heirlooms.. you think this guy actually was so shocked hitler invaded him that he couldn't make a decision until the guy was almost to moscow?

he was just as bad as hitler, if not worse.

[edit on 26-7-2010 by undo]

Originally posted by SLAYER69
I just don't understand why people want to argue against that fact.
This isn't a pissing contest or argument over of who had more killed. It's an acceptance that tens of millions died. Which includes 6 million Jews as well.

Some are arguing, others just want the 'definitive' number dropped. Given that Hitlers generals and closest men lied to him regularly near the end of the war since they couldnt achieve what the great 'Warlord' demanded, id say the reports that alot of the camp commanders 'padded the books' to impress Hitler might be true... hell it turned into a game between camps as to which one killed the most, which is sick, but also meant they probably added or rounded up alot of the numbers to impress their leader and gain kudos.

Doesnt mean hardly any died, far from it... but it DOES make these numbers suspect, but hardly any less shocking or deplorable. It does make sticking an actual number on it pointless... especially if half the complete total of deaths is going to be ignored most of the time its brought up in the media.

All we can no doubt agree on is untold countless lives, be it 100's of thousands or multiple millions, from many different groups of poor souls who shouldn't have died, did die to the mechanization's of a madman and his regime. May it and another War that actioned it never happen again.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by BigfootNZ

 

so you honestly believe his troops couldn't invade moscow cause they didn't know how to fight in snow? you really believe, that the guy (stalin) who made up a new list every day of people to kill, who sent his own to work camps in siberia by the train load, where they died enmasse from lack of nutrition, lack of medical care, who deliberately starve to death the farmers, first by forcing them to give the government all their crops, then by taking all their seed so they could never grow a crop again, who had his troops invade towns in his own country, kill the people and take all their possessions, including family photos and heirlooms.. you think this guy actually was so shocked hitler invaded him that he couldn't make a decision until the guy was almost to moscow?

he was just as bad as hitler, if not worse.

Hitler didnt want to fight on two fronts, he was smart enough to realise that to begin with, but once he found britain was impossible to take he got real itchy... and he made the worse blunder ever in the war. I cant see what your arguing about really, Stalin wasnt shocked and he sure as hell didnt ONLY act when they reached Moscow... dont be that ignorant please.

And what is it with your obsession with snow?.. Russia has just as many seasons as everyone else... you want to know what Germans couldnt fight in the Russian Winter? you also make it out like Hitler blitzkrieged over Russia, far from it... you do know what Russia is like right?.. flat, huge, expansive... oh did i mention HUGE. Hitler gained most of his ground during the Russian Spring/Summer, which like our own is a nice warm, dry flowers, baby lambs affair.

Any way go live in a German Winter, then go live in a Russian Winter and come and tell me which is worse... hell Napoleon was smashed by the Russian Winter as well... hey my country has Snow and Mountains, but our troops would fare no better in the hellish conditions of a Russian Winter. Im talking about conditions so cold that your pee literally freezes before it hits the ground!

Russia had and still does have a limitless supply of manpower. Yes Stalin as a bastard, but he was on our side... and there was many opportunities where he asked Britain and America before the main War broke out to join and help squash Hitler then and there... but Britain and America refused... why? because he was a socialist. It was the old he's not on my doorstep, and he's keeping you busy.

I recommend reading the book, 'The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich' by William L. Shirer ive mentioned it before in threads like this, its by a guy who was in Germany during Hitlers rise and the guy got to also go through all the captured Nazis documents straight after the war. Its quite an eye opener of how the war played out, and documents some very stupid actions and missed opportunities by every side involved.

Read all of its 1200 pages and read some other books, and watch some in depth WW2 documentaries... and maybe then you might understand a little more about that particular event in our not so distant past.

Like I said though, thats all im gonna say since these end up just in circular arguments and slanging matchs. The ability to debate what the OP's article is indicating IS stifled, the reason is... why? Unfortunately even asking why gets you a ton of verbal abuse.

Ive said my peace and opinion on the OP.

Edit:- Opps forgot about the Russian Autumn rains... try driving a tank through 2 feet of mud.

[edit on 26-7-2010 by BigfootNZ]