Atheism is a fraud.

Chris here reminding you that Buddhism is an atheistic religion.
Deny ignorance

reply to post by maria_stardust


Then you do not know how to define yourselves. And this just proves my point.
It seems more like your doctrine is incapable of having a "belief" or something to pursue.
Ok some 'atheists' believe in spiritually others don't? How does exactly that work?


It is a bogey-man problem.
'Atheists' all write lots of books and get them distributed in mainstream bookstores. 'Huge' scientists.
But your all stuck in one place. It's called (non-existent) DOGMA. You seem to be afraid to move on.

[edit on 20-7-2010 by _SilentAssassin_]

Originally posted by _SilentAssassin_
Then you do not know how to define yourselves. And this just proves my point.
It seems more like your doctrine is incapable of having a "belief" or something to pursue.
Ok some 'atheists' believe in spiritually others don't? How does exactly that work?

You were given the definition of atheism -- the non-belief in deities. There is no ideology beyond this concept.

Now, many atheists may be agnostic and will acknowledge that there may be some spiritual force or cosmic energy that is beyond human comprehension. However, that is more of a philosophical stance and not necessarily an ideological one.

reply to post by maria_stardust


Is that the message of your ideas?
Ok so you have some ideas but your not quite sure.
Personally, I think you use bad judgment.
This it enables me to begin to establish and defend my own boundaries.
In the real science a the basic of the whole thing is the falsification of a theory. It is the fundamental teaching of research and science since the Enlightment movement in the 16th and 17th century. Suppressing every other, alternative point of view is called dogmatic.
What strikes me about your perspective the emphasis to confuse and turn upside down the natural sense of morality, and possibility of exploring new realms in consciousness, by suppressing spiritual nature of human beings, I'm not talking about you, Im saying collectively. Because you lack understanding to define yourselves up.


[edit on 20-7-2010 by _SilentAssassin_]

reply to post by _SilentAssassin_

God or the Cosmic Organism is just another name for our Universe in general.

No. I know for a fact that when most people think of God they think of an actual living anthropomorphic being (usually with a white beard on a cloud). Your definition of God is just moving the goal posts a bit.

That is self evidence

No its not. We recently imaged the entire Universe with a special telescope but we didn't see any evidence that it was actually an organism. To my knowledge no such evidence has ever been found. Saying that it's self-evident is a bit absurd. In what way does the Universe convey that it is alive? By sending meteorites at the Earth? Or is it through barren lifeless rocks like Venus?

Though humans exist as individuals with identities we are all connected by energy that cannot be destroyed, only transformed

Please stop with the new age nonsense or I might, I think, yep I'm gonna



The energy in the human body comes from biological processes, we eat foot and take in oxygen and energy is produced. When we die most of that energy is used up, what remains then dissipates into the surrounding dead tissue. Unless you are talking about SOUL energy or some other nonsense...

Makes them think that reality is nothing rather than anything

Hi, I'm an atheist. I think the Universe is EVERYTHING there is. I've never met an atheist, or any individual aside from some solipsists, that though reality might be nothing. Sorry but its true.

Atheists only keep repeating that consciousness is simply a product of neural activity, but that's only an interpretation of the mental processes on their part, to accept that interpretation of yours we would still need to commit our sheer faith to accept it as a fact.

You can accept it on faith OR you can research brain sciences and learn about the studies that have been done on how the brain works. The more we look at the brain the more we realize that it controls it all and the less we have use for spiritual concepts like the soul. Until evidence of the soul emerges in the scientific community I will continue to accept the research and understanding of scientists in these matters over the mumblings of new agers.

Forcing everybody to cease following their own belief systems

Are you sure you aren't a troll? Atheists want to force our "belief system" on the world. And what belief system is that? You are aware that atheism is the LACK of belief in gods right, that's it. In order to be an atheist all you must do is lack belief in gods, after that the remainder of your beliefs on any number of subjects are YOURS. There are atheists who believe aliens created mankind and there are ones who are conservative, others who are liberal, etc. Its not a cohesive group. Every atheist I've ever spoken to has been 100% for letting people exercise their first amendment right to freedom of religion.

You are attacking a non-existent strawman of atheism. Atheism is a default skepticism in a claim made by theists the world over (that a God or gods exist).

So when you have sensation of lets say, a chair, why do you identify the chair, based on what?

Way to go Morpheus, you've really woken me up from the Matrix

Originally posted by _SilentAssassin_
reply to post by maria_stardust

 

Then you do not know how to define yourselves. And this just proves my point.
It seems more like your doctrine is incapable of having a "belief" or something to pursue.
Ok some 'atheists' believe in spiritually others don't? How does exactly that work?

Erm... a tiny tiny thing called individuality. You may have heard of it?

'Atheists' all write lots of books and get them distributed in mainstream bookstores. 'Huge' scientists.

Yes because i've NEVER seen any religious book in a mainstream bookstore.

But your all stuck in one place. It's called (non-existent) DOGMA. You seem to be afraid to move on.

Nope *checks location * - Nope... same planet Amigo. Same oxygen we are breathing... etc.

Or another way to put it...

Atheists believe in EVERYTHING from the life of an insect to the collapse of a black hole on the very very reaches of our universe.

An Atheist can perhaps marvel more at the intricities of a flower, because otherwise the answer is 'Oh... er yeah erm... God made that'.

reply to post by mr-lizard


So what? I already told you. Pantheists do not believe in a extra-Universal deity. So you will need to come up with a better argument than the ones you use on Christians or Muslims.
What makes you think you own monopolity of science and philosophy?
According to your perspective you say that atheism is the lack of 'belief in GOD'. Then how do you trace back the source of your morality?

questions questions..

[edit on 20-7-2010 by _SilentAssassin_]

Yet another bigoted hit piece on people with no beliefs, full of misconceptions and fallacious thinking and proposing an alternative understanding of a "god" they have invented themselves. How original.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
We recently imaged the entire Universe with a special telescope but we didn't see any evidence that it was actually an organism.

Sorry for my sidelining this non-atheism is a fraud point, but huh? How did we image an infinite space? And what do you mean, "imaged"? Can I get a link to something about this?

Oh, and from a non-atheist perspective, no, the Universe gives no evidence that it is an organism, so highly unlikely.

reply to post by adjensen


The Universe is an organism. It's made out of beings constellations and stars.
We are all individual 'cells' of this infinite cosmos.


[edit on 20-7-2010 by _SilentAssassin_]

Originally posted by _SilentAssassin_
Is that the message of your ideas?
Ok so you have some ideas but your not quite sure.

Ah, so quick to make assumptions. Tsk. Tsk. Tsk.

I have made no claim as to what my personal beliefs are, nor will I, as that is no one's business but my own. What I'm engaging in is nothing more than an exchange of viewpoints.

Originally posted by _SilentAssassin_
Personally, I think you use bad judgment.
This it enables me to begin to establish and defend my own boundaries.

Personally, I don't give a rat's patootie what you think. It doesn't bother me one whit.

As far as establishing and defending your own boundaries, well that's your business. It just comes across as rather hypocritical when you attempt to define others -- in this case, atheism -- especially when you don't understand or refuse to acknowledge the underlying concept. In doing so you only look foolish.

Originally posted by _SilentAssassin_
In the real science a the basic of the whole thing is the falsification of a theory. It is the fundamental teaching of research and science since the Enlightment movement in the 16th and 17th century. Suppressing every other, alternative point of view is called dogmatic.

What theory would that be? You haven't been very forthcoming as to your theory and it's relation to atheism.

Also, atheism has absolutely zip to do with research and science whether it's related to the Age of Enlightenment or currently or any time in between.

You do understand the meaning of the word dogmatic, don't you? Because it really, really seems like you don't. Well, allow me to inform you. Simply put, dogmatic means the presentation of strong opinions as if they were facts.

If anything, it is your viewpoint that is dogmatic.

Originally posted by _SilentAssassin_
What strikes me about your perspective the emphasis to confuse and turn upside down the natural sense of morality, and possibility of exploring new realms in consciousness, by suppressing spiritual nature of human beings, I'm not talking about you, I saying collectively. Because you lack understanding to define yourselves up.

Again, atheism has nothing to do with morality, new realms of consciousness or the suppressing of man's spiritual nature.

It is you (and, by the way, I mean you personally) who's personal perspective on the issue of atheism is sadly skewed and misinformed. It is your lack of understanding regarding the subject matter that has turned your thread into an exercise in futility.

You can attempt to redefine atheism any way you like, as long as you realize that it is nothing more than your individual perspective (read: personal opinion), and not a fact (read: indisputable, beyond a doubt).

reply to post by maria_stardust


Who me? I haven't defined anything, except my perspective.
I'm asking you to define yours. If it's not a fraud, what is it then? How do you trace back the source of your morality or individual consciousness?
I'm seeing a lot of stars on your posts. 3 pages and I'm still waiting. Perhaps you can set me straight.



[edit on 20-7-2010 by _SilentAssassin_]

reply to post by _SilentAssassin_


What's there to set straight?

You claim atheism is a fraud and then demand that atheists define their "fake ideology" as you so quaintly put it. Quite simply, it's impossible to define an ideology where none exists.

If you actually bothered to take the time to understand what atheism is about, then you would know that it has absolutely nothing to do with either morality or individual consciousness.

Now, if you would like to discuss your perspective as a pantheist in relation to morality and individual consciousness, I'd be more than happy to oblige as those are philosophical stances. However, as it stands, none of these things are directly related to atheism.

reply to post by _SilentAssassin_


Okay , I said I was through with this thread but , still following it , I must ask you a question .

What category of Pantheism do you position yourself within ? I'm a bit confused , as you claim not to believe in an 'extra-universal' deity , yet you persist in asking from whence others trace their morality .

Are you equating morality with theism ? Do you possess or practice morality ? If so , from whence does your morality come ? The Universe ?

Again , what type/order of pantheism do you fall into ? This might help us to better understand what you are trying to convey .

Also , if we are all a part of God , as you state in the OP , why do you ask where one traces his/her individual conciousness from ?

[edit on 20-7-2010 by okbmd]

reply to post by okbmd


It's like they say,
'The kingdom is within'.

I AM.

Y'all have a nice day.

[edit on 20-7-2010 by _SilentAssassin_]

reply to post by _SilentAssassin_


That answers none of my questions .

You started this thread , looking for an argument , and I have answered your call .

Please answer the questions I posed to you , especially the one concerning what type of Pantheist you consider yourself to be .

Originally posted by _SilentAssassin_
It's like they say,
'The kingdom is within'.

I AM.

You exist, therefore a deity or deities exist? Or we're all part of one ginormous, huge deity? I suppose it all works if you get to make things up.

Y'all have a nice day.

Traditionaldrummer's First Law:

When faced with humiliating defeat, duck out quickly.

This is the weirdest discussion.

Seems to me it should be about a single Omnipotent Being God vs an All Encompassing Universe God.

I don't understand what Atheism has to do with any of this.

I don't believe in any god or even a universe god. I do use the term Creator - because I believe all is energy based and created.

For all I know we are a very advanced - very sophisticated computer game - - and the "Creator" (or Creators) are the engineers of the game.

Some Atheists simply need proof there is a God and are easily mingled with the evolutionist. They encompus a great multitude' that can never be reached, because they obviously can't see, what they say they need. Proof.
While the Satanist seems to reject God out of pure spite. They think it's neat, or in style. Dosn't seem wise to me at all.

Apart from these are the Atheists who at least flat out reject God on their own terms for their own reasons and have come together as a collective.
Not as a religion. I have hope for these, as I understand them the most.