The I hate Israel crowd is truly irrational

Really? What a thread, that's all I can say. "The 'I Hate Israel' crowd"... I see how you think right there and feel that maybe you are the irrational one.

For starters, because you don't appreciate the way the Israeli government treats everyone around them **cough**Palestine**cough** doesn't mean anyone hates Israel. Leading me to believe you yourself have an irrational hatred towards those who have a different point of view then yourself.

And on the flip side, isn't it a bit irrational to defend Israel despite all the, for the lack of a better word, "bad" things they do? They could nuke an innocent country killing millions yet you'd defend them saying they were "justified" in doing so and anyone who criticised them would be irrational.

Get a grip OP.

Irrational in the sense that very few "anti-Israeli" people actually .. understand the Middle East, or especially any given story they comment on ..

Take the blockade issue.

It's been there, untested and unbothered since early 2007! .. It's not new!

ALL aid, and there has so far this year been several hundred thousand tons of it, comes through Israeli ports, because terrorist can smuggle weapons in with aid supplies if left unchecked..

This flotilla decided they were to good for the Israeli ports (or dumb) and broke the blockade..

Most people also don't know, or don't want to know, that Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon ALL have blockades on Palestine.. Palestinians are the most hated people in the World, except by outsiders who live nowhere near them..

I looked objectively at this scenario when it first broke, and at first I sided with the aid people, then after sifting through the facts, I can determine Israel did nothing wrong. Now whether or not they should even have a blockade, or be in control of Palestine, is an entirely different subject.. but when a nation is at war and has a blockade, you don't try and ram your way through with a cargo boat. And when their marines come aboard with paintball guns, hitting them with bats will probably result in live fire.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
You say they are preventing aid, but they tried to hand it over to Palestine today and they wouldn't accept it, Is it or is it not true huge amounts of aid get through, yet they still live in poverty.
Hamas refuses to accept cargo seized by Israel during botched flotilla raid
www.nydailynews.com...

Aha...it was answered by another user in a different thread

Originally posted by lee anoma
reply to post by Portugoal

 

Why didn't that CNN article mention these official statements from Hammas?

Sorry, but I just realized it was missing from the articles I read earlier:

But the following day, Hamas Social Affairs Minister Ahmad al-Kurd told reporters that it would accept the aid only if it entered "without anything being stolen from the activists, and without any exceptions."

"This includes the prefabricated homes, the cement, the iron and the electric generators," he said.
Jewish Telegraphic Agency

*my Bolds

Hamas rejects flotilla goods while activists remain in jail

"We will refuse the aid as long as the victims of Israel's attack remain in prison. Without exception we demand their release," Al-Kurd said during a Gaza City press conference. Palestinenote.com

Those statements seem very important to the story.
I wonder why they left this out?

Very strange.

- Lee

One has to wonder why your source did not mention that...isn't it?

Originally posted by Legion2112

Originally posted by LDragonFire
So attempting to compare modern Israel to Nazi Germany based on the facts today is hate?

No, it's just stupid. Second line

Agreed, Nazi were better than ZionistIsrael.

[edit on 3-6-2010 by Anonymoux]

Originally posted by Anonymoux
Agreed, Nazi were better than ZionistIsrael.

Perhaps one of the most ignorant lines every written on ATS.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Heres an idea of the deaths of Palestinains to the deaths of Isrealis. This is a chart from 2008.


Now, here's a map of what the land Palestine has from 1947-2000.


Now, you could say they have a right to this land, or whatever, I honestly do not know because it is hard to follow how far back this land really goes, past the Romans. Regardless, that was a LONG TIME ago. By that logic, any Native American alive today would be justified in the mass murder of Americas because it "used" to be their land.

The people of Palestine TODAY, are not the same people who where there THOUSANDS of years ago. And the Isrealis, are not the same Isreals from thousands of years ago either. Which makes the whole thing completely irrelevant, because nobody alive today owned any of the land way back in time. The people of Palestine, or Isreal today, have nothing to do with the way the land was handled in the past.

All it is is an excuse to take land, claiming that their ancestors had it. You know what, the spanish used to own Florida back in time, so therefore every spaniard today who has no relation to them has the right to murder all those families now living in Florida, because it "used" to be their land.

Edit to add: Now heres a comparision of the size of Isreal to the size of NJ. Now look at the picture I posted of Palestinian terroritory, and look at where gaza is. Do you see how small Gaza is compared to Isreal, and how small Israel is compared to NJ? Now do you see the box that they live in?



[edit on 3-6-2010 by Good Intentions]

reply to post by Skellon


Skellon, many times on forums I have asked people just to meet me half way, but they are so unyielding.

They are now playing a role in the drama, they have become that which they hate, they cry peace, yet, prepare for and encourage war,

I never was one to go along with the crowd.

reply to post by Matrix Rising


Hmm...I wonder why Palestinians don't get much of the aid that is given to them. Maybe it's because of this damn blockade that you seem to be ignoring????

haahaha, i know it happens a lot but i just love it when the first two or three posts in a thread COMPLETELY shut down the OP with cold hard logic, and have as many and more stars than the TS anticipated themselves getting.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by Anonymoux
Agreed, Nazi were better than ZionistIsrael.

Perhaps one of the most ignorant lines every written on ATS.

Depends ignorants to whom! To the Zionazi's or the regular people. If criticising Israeli Government policies makes one Nazi as has been said on 5 of similar threads like this one, then hell yes Nazi were innocent and nothing compared to the genocide being committed by Israel.

[edit on 3-6-2010 by Anonymoux]

Originally posted by Good Intentions
Edit to add: Now heres a comparision of the size of Isreal to the size of NJ. Now look at the picture I posted of Palestinian terroritory, and look at where gaza is. Do you see how small Gaza is compared to Isreal, and how small Israel is compared to NJ? Now do you see the box that they live in?



[edit on 3-6-2010 by Good Intentions]

I see it and I question why don't they go to Jordan and settle or Syria or Lebanon? Surely anyone of those nations would take care of their own, don't you think?

Ahhh, but they don't. Why?

Again, I post this for your consideration:

Way back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here's what he said:


The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.

For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.

reply to post by DomhainGràdh


For all intensive purposes I do not believe in international law. I believe in US constitutional law. And I know how imperialistic that sounds. But quite frankly, looking at how well international law has made the world (emphasis heavy sarcasm here), I feel compelled to abandon that failure in favor of what lasted longer. Hell, the bloody Magna Carta has done the world better.

And as far as that goes with this operation, I believe that I really don't believe this boat was all that innocent. Pictures show them with knives and swords and with religious flags. Flotilla has implied other ships. And I've heard there were others that compelled and left. I am not certain. I am more than happy to say I am still learning about this. That is why I take no sides and really don't care. But on a practicality, I favor Israel simply because they are no primitives. And that is exactly what Palestine is. As far as I can tell, from judging of their friends, they are not good people. Now their punishment by Israel IS hurting innocent people. But personally I do not look at it as if laws and treaties can do anything.

I really fail to see how international law, Geneva conventions, or anything at all here is practical. Both sides have dedicated themselves to total war. And ultimately. , any given conflict, given enough time, reduces down to just that. Thus I must look at the before and after pictures. Before this there was relative peace (cough cough, laugh laugh) in the region. Both sides had blood on their hands however from little side missions. In this before picture, I see Palestine as a religious group that are primitive. For all purposes, they are more interested in religion and culture over Advancement and fairness. Thus they are primitive. Then I see racist settlers from Israel and Palestine. This incriminates the Civilians, fore the governments were not doing much at all. I see A sudden rise in hatred from civilian supported groups on both sides. Then the rockets. The first shots fired. This would be from Philistine. Israel waits, than finally attacks. And just as Palestine took out civilians, Israel returns the favor. I than see a continuation of hatred and death eating away everywhere, concluding with Israel giving the middle finger to all decency, and going all out into total war.

Because this war has gone on for so long, both governmental leaders have been exchanged, re elected, and changed. I therefore simply do not see neither civilian no government, nor military as innocent. I see no innocent faces amongst them all, for they all voted on and chose their leaders over the course of this war. With every assault, another returned. continuing to grow until total war.

It is therefore simple. Total war is the creation of the civilian population on both sides. I cannot say many innocent suffer for there are none. It truly hurts my gut to say this, for I hate war, but in all honestly, these people got exactly what they chose.


The unbiased fact is that. Action reaction is proven true once again.

however I follow the constitution and those who wrote it. I do not want to be involved in here. But if you have to chose a side, well, i said it already. If I have to chose between two Satans, I chose the free mind over the dogmatic barbarian. And it is for that reason that I do not blame Israel for its actions.

Again. There is no side right. But if you want to blame somewhat, it would be whoever the mysterious underground leader who ordered the first Hezbollah missile to be fired. But Israel responded.


That's that. Unbiased, simple fact. They got what they deserved. let them enjoy the world they created for themselves. I cannot say anything other than I pray they learn from this and never again do it. And that simply is for both sides.

[edit on 3-6-2010 by Gorman91]

I think there are far too many of these threads on ATS at the moment. Most of the anti-israel threads at least have a bit of relevent current events information to digest. These pro-israel threads seem to be little more than personal opinion and border on being little more than rants. Unless people actually have something of substance to add with these threads other than: "You all need to stop hating on israel!" then they should think twice before they create new threads. Realistically, what has the OP said in this thread that has not already been said in other threads, just this week?

Chrono

reply to post by Freenrgy2


They are not allowed out, what part don't you get? And why should they have to leave anyway? Why doesn't Isreal leave? Where do you live, I would like to bring my people their, so therefore you should just leave so I could live.

And maybe they were called something else before they were called Palestinians, I honestly do not know and I'll look into that, but regardless of what they "where", they are still humans living and they are called Palestinians. The name of their nationality is completely irrelevant, what matters is the wrongs done by a group of people, to another group of people.

Edit to add: This goes back way past 1943, past the times of the Roman Empire. The land of the semites was initially taken by the Romans. The "Palestinians", who are blamed for occupying their land, happen to live there, just as I (Albanian) happen to live in the U.S. where this land used to be of the Native Americans taken by the Pilgrims.

[edit on 3-6-2010 by Good Intentions]

[edit on 3-6-2010 by Good Intentions]

Originally posted by Freenrgy2
I see it and I question why don't they go to Jordan and settle or Syria or Lebanon? Surely anyone of those nations would take care of their own, don't you think?

The Arab treatment of Palestinians has been less than stellar. During the Black September fighting, 3400 Palestinians were killed by Jordanian forces, though Palestinian estimates place the figure at 10 to 20 thousand. After the Gulf War, Kuwait ethnically cleansed their country of Palestinians, expelling Palestinians for PLO support of the Iraqi invasion. Before the war, Palestinians made up 30% of Kuwait's population; after it was less than 3%.

This by no means excuses crimes and atrocities committed by Israel in their treatment of Palestinians. However, it should be noted and acknowledged that the Arab nations are less-than-sincere in their concern about the Palestinian Question.

Originally posted by Chronogoblin
These pro-israel threads seem to be little more than personal opinion and border on being little more than rants.

At brass tacts, that is what all threads are, just people's opinions, though some more supported by facts than others.

reply to post by Gorman91


Sorry to burst your bubble but US constitution is not applicable outside USA thus you're point is moot. If Geneva Conventions and UN and treaties dont mean anything then creation of Israel doesnt mean anything. It should not be a country then or are you nitpicking which treaties, UN actions orr Geneva conventions suit you!! Sure does seem like it,

Originally posted by YaYaYa
reply to post by ah...dehavilland

 

Where do you think 6 million dissapeared? ha?Thats hurting mate..

As Israel denies the genocide and holocaust it commits on Palestine, I will also say there was no Holocaust during WW2. Adolf Hitler was only acting in self defense. Sounds wrong doesn't it? That's the point!

[edit on 3-6-2010 by Anonymoux]

I'm not a fan of short posts, but here we go:

"Can anyone say, MEGAPHONE?"

GIYUS - GET OFF ATS, AND NOW!

Parallex.

Israel lol! they haven't got a clue about international law, they just do whatever the want because they have all the media covered. I wouldn't be surprised if ATS got a real kicking on Monday from the Anti-defamation league and that's why on Tuesday one mod called for an Israeli board and skeptic overlord was asking everyone to calm down.

The jews love them or hate them it doesn't matter to them, they really don't care what the world thinks....

[edit on 3-6-2010 by strangleholder1]

reply to post by Matrix Rising


Israel recieves 3Billion in aide every year from the US by the way.

Just thought id point that out