The I hate Israel crowd is truly irrational

reply to post by Anonymoux


Well mine is not a nation. It is a picture. I don't represent nations with pictures. Nice fallacy though.

Also, nice backing out of your own logic. Because if you do now support international treaties, then you have to support Israel too.

[edit on 3-6-2010 by Gorman91]

reply to post by Anonymoux


Unfortunately I have to agree with what you're saying because it sadly make sense!

But I don't actually know if this will help to draw attention to the "problem" the right way?

It's of course your call to do what you want!

I understand exactly what you mean! It's sad it has to come to this and these extremes though!

Stay frosty mate!

[edit on 4-6-2010 by Chevalerous]

reply to post by Gorman91


Nope I never backed out on anything. I never said I dont support creation of Israel. I said if internationtal treaties UN, Geneva dont mean anything to YOU then creation of Israel also dont mean anything by same logic (which is yours).

I dont care actually why was Israel created, what happened 60 yrs ago, it's a tad old story now and has been overused now zillions of times...yeh I understood Jews were persecuted and Nazi were evil now lets move forward in time lol.....and in NOW I care about what is happening at the time I am living which is Holocaust of 21st century at the hands of Israel.

So as the old story goes Jews were persecuted by Nazi and well. Does that mean all German people were evil then? No...similarly does it mean all Israeli people are evil now?...No! BUT there are a tad lot of similarities between then Nazi action and now Israel actions which as the saying goes NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN!!.

reply to post by Chevalerous


I'm not blind at all.

Let me just tell you about history. For the last 60 years, whenever one side had the advantage, they attacked. No matter who.

You cannot chose a side based on how they act at this point in the game. By the end of WW2, the US was a tyrannical state that killed civilians regardlessly. Horrors beyond words. Nuclear bombs at the end. Yet would you chose to support Nazi Germany over that?

Really you have two options. Chose the more modern, or chose none at all and let them all burn.

reply to post by Anonymoux


Well you there is where you fall. I don't support any nation really. None have shown themselves to be good. I support whichever of the satans that act in such a way that allow more advancements. Thus I support the US IDEA. Not the US today. They've become a disaster. I believe in the creation of a World Union with traits from the Magna Carta, Roman law, and Constitution used as its own laws.


However, there is a difference between the ideal and the actual. And the actual is that Israel is still better by means of how they act at peace time. In war, no one is clean. War is evil, war is barbaric. In peace is what matters. And the fact is that in peace, Israel would be free. In peace, Palestine would support primitive laws and ways. Id support Dubai running the region before Palestine.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Anonymoux

 

And the actual is that Israel is still better by means of how they act at peace time.

When has there been peace in that region since Israel has been created? Since its creating it has been hoarding and stealing land, taking aids, funds from foreign countries and then spying on its own same allies like USA, UK...assassinating foreign nationals on foreign land...secretly creating nuclear weapons...engaging in propaganda on its own ally countries...provoking wars between countries to benefit itself? **forgot to include operating the worlds biggest concentration camp Gaza.

In war, no one is clean. War is evil, war is barbaric. In peace is what matters. And the fact is that in peace, Israel would be free.

By your logic the Nazi's and gestapo wouldnt have been created as evil image, afterall whatever they did was during the war period. During peace time they would have been great.

In peace, Palestine would support primitive laws and ways. Id support Dubai running the region before Palestine.

I think Hitler would have said the same with the difference of using the term Jews (as Israel did not existed then) instead of Palestinians.

[edit on 3-6-2010 by Anonymoux]

reply to post by Anonymoux


Peace is a relative term. When the fighting in wars has not been occurring, it's been good.

Also the Germans were bad before the war started. Maybe you don't recall, but Hitler wrote Mien Kampf before the war. And carried out persecution of impure races before the war too. Their actions speak perfectly clear as to what they did in peace time. Even burning down their own government buildings.

Also what you just listed as bad things.... every nation on Earth has done. Thus again, relative to the better nations, it is indifferent yet again.

Tell me again. Why is it bad when Israel does it, but you ignore the +10X the US, UK, and Chinese do the same? Why not go after them just as much?

The fact still remains. In peace time, Civilians were more free under Israel than under Palestine. Thus Israel is the better of two evils.

reply to post by Matrix Rising
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Matrix, it is rare that you and I ever find ourselves in agreement. This happens to be one of those occasions.

But we should be very clear here, while the Palestinians have suffered under their leadership, that suffering is not the fault of their leadership alone. Israel has blood on it's hands as well; their treatment of the Palestinians has been atrocious and deplorable. No cement to rebuild schools and homes destroyed by Israelis? No school-books for children allowed through the blockade? The bulldozing of homes of those related to suicide bombers or suspected terrorists? Each and every one of those ridiculous and despicable.

For those and many other reasons, it is understandable to be angry at Israel. Every moral and sane person should be.

However, every moral, sane and rational person should also understand the situation is far more complicated than the black-and-white morality it is often portrayed in. It is not as simple as "Evil Israelis" and "Victim Palestinians" or vice versa. But many well-meaning people see it only in terms of "oppressed" and "oppressor", viewing the conflict in a vacuum; Israel can do no right in their eyes. Their anger, though understandable, sprouts from a shallow understanding of the conflict. One cannot entirely fault them for their anger or call it irrational.

However, there is very much an undercurrent of anti-Semitism in anti-Israeli anger. That is not to say that every criticism of Israel equates to anti-Semitism; far from it. But one only need to read some of the comments in the Anti-Israeli threads here on ATS to see this Anti-Semitism. These members will use common anti-Semite rhetoric in reference to Israel, often replacing "Jew" with "Israel." These are the members who are celebrating and applauding the MV Mavi Marmara incident, hoping that it means an end for Israel. These are the ones cheerleading the destruction of Israel, even (and especially) if it results in the deaths of thousands or millions.

These anti-Semites will hide behind the guise of being anti-Zionist. It is a distinction without a difference. To be fair, many of those who claim to be anti-Zionist are not anti-Semites, they simply fail to understand the definition of the term Zionism. It is a belief that the Jewish people should have their own homeland, no different than any other self-determination movements, regardless of what other claims anti-Semites may make of its ideologies. Is it nationalist and exceptionalist? Certainly. But every culture, ethnicity, nation and religion believes in it's own exceptionalism; Israel, though, is inordinately, and hypocritically, attacked for these beliefs.

One may doubt that anti-Zionism equates to anti-Semitism, but if one were to apply anti-Zionist rhetoric to any other ethnicity, culture, nation or religion, it would inarguably be condemned as racist and bigoted. Read the anti-Zionist rhetoric here on ATS, replace the term Zionists or Israel with any other religion or ethnicity; it will not be long you see how offensive such rhetoric would be.

To be fair, many of those who claim to be anti-Zionist are not anti-Semites, they simply fail to understand the definition of the term Zionism. And of course, there is an anti-Zionist movement among certain sects of Judaism, for religious reasons; these are hardly the anti-Semites being discussed here.

Those anti-Semites trying to hide behind the false mask of anti-Zionism are easy to spot. Like using Israel in place of Jews in their rhetoric, they will employ the exact same abhorrent anti-Semitic slurs, simply replace Jews with Zionist. Ultimately, the rhetoric is indistinguishable and inseparably from anti-Semitism, despite their insincere protests to the contrary.

Ok I know this will not go over well, but at times I have no self control,


www.youtube.com...

Flotilla Choir presents: We Con the World

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Anonymoux

 

Tell me again. Why is it bad when Israel does it, but you ignore the +10X the US, UK, and Chinese do the same? Why not go after them just as much?

Make a thread about it and if in my opinion there is any merit in it or is recognised by International law I would speak up there too.

The fact still remains. In peace time, Civilians were more free under Israel than under Palestine. Thus Israel is the better of two evils.

Israel has never been in peace, thus your statement is moot. The only time there was peace in the region was when Christians, Jews and Muslims all lived together as they should. Yeh I know sounds like a group orgy but I dont discriminate.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


That obviously ignores the overreaction from the IDF. But I hear there were other ships that did obey their commands and nothing happened to them.

So lulz all the same, it's funny, but sadly ignores crimes on the other side as well.

None the less, I side with the less foolish and civilized. So yea, thanks I guess.

reply to post by Anonymoux


Yea. know why there was peace? Cause the Europeans killed you regardless of who you were. Get out of line of the British, you're dead. They were the worst of the barbarians. I WOULD rather Palestine over British colonial rule.

Also peace, again, is a relative term. Peace is a lack of military actions against another's territories. If behind the scenes actions are considered war, then guess what. Know who else is always at war? Everyone else.

So thus the question is posed again. If Israel is just acting like everyone else. Why are you only going against Israel?

[edit on 3-6-2010 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Chevalerous

 

You cannot chose a side based on how they act at this point in the game. By the end of WW2, the US was a tyrannical state that killed civilians regardlessly. Horrors beyond words. Nuclear bombs at the end. Yet would you chose to support Nazi Germany over that?

Really you have two options. Chose the more modern, or chose none at all and let them all burn.

Yet would you chose to Yet would you chose to support Nazi Germany over that?

What the hell are you talking about? - I know my options! and what I support!

So stop playing childish games!

You cannot chose a side based on how they act at this point in the game.

I don't chose any sides like you Americans are doing with politics - cheering for your favourite guy or political party like brainwashed fotball huligans

I don't support any radical brainwashed crazy islamists nor do I support the rabid and brainwashed nutters of the Israeli regime.

And I don't love all Israelis - exactly in the same way as - I don't love all muslims.

I support humanity and chose humanism - not the dehumanisation process of any of those 4 groups!

I don't chose sides!

Please! don't come with crappy examples of what you assume I would support or not - that my friend! is my option!

Yet would you chose to support Nazi Germany over that?

In the country I'm living in we have a similar manipulative way of asking questions or make a statement or manipulate - and a former girlfriend of mine went to journalist school and told me that they were teaching them all these pesky & tricky questions to use on corrupt politicians or bad people in interviews if you want them to make a fool of themselves on live TV.

Her favourite one was: Have you stopped beating your wife yet?


[edit on 4-6-2010 by Chevalerous]

I dont hate the Israel people or jews. But i hate their zionist agenda. American government and Israel government are like Dr.Evil and mini Me in Austin powers. I dont mean the Americans or Israelis. Their governments.

Originally posted by Chevalerous
Her favourite one was: Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

[edit on 3-6-2010 by Chevalerous]

That made me lol...so have you? hahaha ...srry just kidding.

reply to post by Chevalerous


Perhaps you missed what I said. That's assuming you wish to pick a side. However, you should know the same as I told the other guy. Every nation on earth does what Israel is doing now. People simply chose to listen to Israel more. For some mysterious reason, it's only when Israel does these things that they matter. Funny. I believe the word biased describes this phenomenon.

reply to post by Gorman91



It was kinda dark humor, but ya can't cry everyday, tired to lighten the mood a little.

can I have a star?



[edit on 073030p://bThursday2010 by Stormdancer777]

Thank you. You have a keen understanding of the hypocritical nature of those who make anti-Israeli statements. It really is utterly amazing that these people think the way they do, obviously I.Q. points are recessive traits in those folks' gene pools. As you pointed out, many of these posters are irrationally motivated and their thoughts are disassociated from reality. They support evil, in fact they might as well admit that they are proponents of genocide.

Iran's regime is evil, so is Syria's and North Korea, maybe not evil but definitely retarded; militant Islamo-fascists are evil too. These are people, and I am using the term loosely that plan to kill the relish in the thought of killing innocents. Israel does not, Israelis have to defend themselves but they do not plan to exterminate whole cultures; which they could easily do with their nukes. Israel uses great restraint and should be applauded for that.

I think it is so funny that there are so many evil people on these boards, Satan is sure to be pleased with that.

[edit on 3-6-2010 by irontyrant]

reply to post by chaosinorder


What's your opinion of the Islamo- fascist agenda? You have any support for their actions?

[edit on 3-6-2010 by irontyrant]

www.youtube.com...

This may get me into trouble but I am going to say it anyways, the kind of mentality shown in that youtube clip is a disease and somehow I think historically certain leaders have tried to cull the influence of this mindset by gasing enmasse.

If you were to ask me if the Holocaust was real I would say yes and for the very purpose of removing people who think ( dysfunctionally ) like this from the face of the Planet for the benefit of all humankind.

Wake up Israel you are doing nothing but bringing the World closer to WW3 and you really are no different than the Nazi's who you claimed were responsible for the Holocaust.