Abrahamic religions! Holy Land! Of God? Rant!

Originally posted by teapot

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by Mykahel

 

Everything that holds life holds the Holy Spirit. Nothing of life can exists without the Holy Spirit within it. This was the true offering of self of God for this experience and existence.

Its understanding that without the Holy Spirit...no life would exists.

God never required a sacrifice....God made this world here with a purpose...that purpose is us to Seek the life force within us.

The Life Force and the Holy Spirit are not the same thing.

In this life and on this Earth, fauna and flora are both embued with the life force but only humanity can choose to invite the Holy Spirit into the heart and thereby enter into a personal relationship with God.

Hello teapot!

I dont believe what I said refers to them being the same thing (life force and Holy Spirit) but showed they are connected. It is the Spirit offering itself to emanation, this is the very energy through out all of our created/emanated Universe. The Holy Spirit is infinite...the life force is offering of the Holy Spirit. My point being, without the Holy Spirit's offering of itself, there would be no fauna and flora, there would be no life force. You cant exist without the life force, hence without the Holy Spirit.

One can clearly live more for the Earthly body and not give awareness that there must be something higher then he/she. But this doesnt change the fact that the Holy Spirit is the breath they breath. Delusion is allowed, races, differences, egos, earthly attributes like pride, greed, lust, desires...we have the choice but the cycles and orders will lead all back to Thee. The parables of sifting and measuring will work, reaping what one sows, the whole universe goes through cycles, processes, sifting, measuring. Its so perfect in every way.

Will get back more soon....and would love more feedback as always.

LV

reply to post by Dr Conspire


Ahhhh....yes, love for no reward...yes.

LV,

I looked up Kabbalistic story of "the breaking of the vessels. Haven't read the real thing yet, but how other people use it. A numerologist healer:
The Forgotten Language of Creation, Kathy Bernstein www.numbersandkabbalah.org...
Day 1 and 2 explanations resonate with me, dualities; male/female, void as space for shattering and bringing forth of the new. Stuff I would agree with. Then I looked at general works on Kabbala. There's a school in New York that teaches it. But the traditionalist Kabbalists don't approve because people are supposed to only learn it after 40.

Crying out loud! All this keeping of information secret is nuts. Wouldn't it have been good for the 10 year old Dr Conspire to hear that all that exclusiveness wasn't literal? There's no way I can approve of this secrecy. What am I to conclude? Some people 'in the know' are keeping secrets? Secrets that if shared could remove for many people an excuse to hate and hurt? Have they no shame? Have they no decency?

Ignorance perpetuated for what? Control? This is an outrage!

-end rant- actually a bit contrived.

I remember seeing Kabbalah for sale in one form or other as long as I remember browsing book stores. Some body even showed me one he owned back in early 70s.

thank you



[edit on 20-3-2010 by pthena]

reply to post by teapot


Im not sure how to raise my head after reading what you wrote.

I feel the sorrow that man has sent to the heavens and it weighs heavy on things of Spirit.

That belief brings seeds to reap that I dont even want to think about for one moment in time ever again.

But God is so perfect....Thee understands why you believe what you do. Im just thankful to of been shown why its not so.

Like I said before, ask a child things of Spirit and they would have understanding about simple things more so then the adult that has given books the status of 'holy wisdom'.

Your belief is the same belief God finally made me see through....Im not sure why I was shown in such a way but all I can do is share with others. When I was shown how shameful it was....I thought I would never stand again on my two feet. Only by the strength of the Spirit of God was I able to face the fact once again...Im human and not perfect. Embrace what I learn, even the wrong and the bad. Cherish both paths...for both have formed me and molded me.

reply to post by pthena


We are in interesting times that people have at their fingertips a way to search many things.

It does seem like a convergence going on in the minds of the people.

I take the breaking of the vessels very generally. Do I know for sure that there were 10 forms of beings after the breaking? I do not. But the shattering of the vessels does resonate with me. I can then look at how some other writings talk about the emanations of God....and parts of that deeply resonate with me also.

It all just allows me to keep a open mind....considering all possibilities. With always keeping in mind...I cant understand the totality of it all.

reply to post by LeoVirgo

Dan12:4 But you, Daniel, close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge."

Back in the old days, people talked about how fast trains were, how fast air mail was, how fast some one from New York city could get to a monastery in Tibet. That was then. Now people can sit at home and access almost every 'sacred scripture' still extant, and tons of other stuff; right at our finger tips. The verse says 'many', as long as 'information overload' doesn't cripple us, we should be able to advance somewhat. I wish the text said wisdom would increase. But there are some wise.

3 Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever.

reply to post by pthena


pthena, have you ever read parts of proverbs where it talks about wisdom being a 'she'?

Was just re reading some of it last night...parts of it seem like a song for the soul or a song of the soul.

reply to post by LeoVirgo

pthena, have you ever read parts of proverbs where it talks about wisdom being a 'she'?

Was just re reading some of it last night...parts of it seem like a song for the soul or a song of the soul.

Yes, not recently. The soul with Wisdom is a she. Complete soul/dual soul=a she suitable for marriage. The seed from above joined with seed of below brings new birth. Complete soul is the womb. Must expand for new birth of spiritual body. Expansion through void. Shattering occurs. 'Unless a grain seed dies, no growth will happen.'

It's all in the Kabbalah based healer's paper I linked to. Funny how it agrees with what I already believed, before I even read it.

'You must loose your life to gain it' isn't just a clever saying. It's true and frightening. Frightening precisely because if you enter in holding some preconceived notion of immortality or even future continuation of recognizable 'self' there is no submission to death. What is required is the willingness to end forever. That's what Jesus did.

My nom de plume is pthena, Thena is my little Athena(sprung full grown from the head of Zeus). I don't care about Zeus, but the imagery is instructive as to the nature of wisdom.

The Proverbs are a multi sourced document as you have noticed. The bulk of the second part is merely cleverly constructed sayings regarding earthly wisdom which aren't even particularly wise. Rubbish mostly. Some of the earlier is much better, 7 - 9 maybe, which actually seems to be the basis of much of the later Wisdom Literature.

Have you noticed the irony that people without 'book religion' seem to do an awful lot of reading?

PS
Somewhere, if I can find it, I've got a poem that Thena wrote. If I find it, I'll share it with you. It's kind of her side of the story I told once about seeing my soul leave. It is Saturday, baby sitting day, so may take some time.

[edit on 20-3-2010 by pthena]

reply to post by pthena


Hello pthena!

Just wanted to point out something you said that is very true...

Have you noticed the irony that people without 'book religion' seem to do an awful lot of reading?

I would think I would get sick of reading at some point in my life...but if I had to leave my home and all my things....one of the things I would truly miss is my books.

Growing up, I was taught to place 100% faith in the Bible. As an adult, after having some strange experiences that always made me ponder things in the back of my mind...I decided to really search the origins of the book I was taught to place faith in. This search had to involve all other beliefs from that part of the world. I realized I had to read up on many different scriptures, texts, practices, traditions, importance of dates, ect....to have a better understanding of man and man's past.

Note I said....'to have a better understanding of man and man's past'.

Add a couple more strange experiences to the back of my pondering mind, add a time of cleansing I felt the Spirit led me thorugh, add the forgiving I had to go through to man kind and all of our past ways, at the same time, gaining understanding of why they believed what they did and why they acted in such ways....the whole time I felt the Spirit guiding me showing me why forgiving is needed....forgive them for what they do not know or understand. Its not obvious to most that there is a higher power....and it should not be punishable to them that they prefer to use their bodily senses to 'see and hear' truth. I then understood....ITS NOT ABOUT BELIEF....but understanding of the belief.

God does not punish those who do not believe in things beyond the seen.

This was one of my first revelations through spirit....that those that do not seek a belief are not going to be punished. They are needed on their path just as much as all the different believers are need on their path.

After a couple years of my head twisting out of the knot it once had in it....I then began to again read the book that I was raised in as 'truth' of God. This time....I did see God....but few and far between the lives of man and mans ways of learning through the darkness and the light.

It was actually more beautiful to me now...it had parts that sang to my spirit within me. It made perfect sense to have the book hold two different natures that would bring a true seeker to discern things....and it would cause the followers to not see.

Even though we read many books....I think its important to let others know...there is a tool that can be used to understand what is of Spirit. This is your vessel, your body, it can be an instrument that weighs, sifts, and measures....it can be a filter of discerning between things of man and our Earthly ways that we all had to walk before understanding things of heaven and of Spirit.

Dont take mans word for anything...test everything through your inner spirit if you are sure you have humbled yourself and you know your thoughts are honest and sincere.

But we do need to learn about man...and for this...the books are needed. As we read about man learning things of Earth and Spirit...we can discern between the two. Just because it has the word 'God' or 'Lord' attached to a action does not make it of spirit.

Find actions of love, compassion, offering, humbleness, patients, mercy, ect....you will find the Spirit in the past of man....and this reaches far beyond one single book. Its within many books and it was here before any books.

I love to learn...so I LOVE LOVE LOVE to read. Funny what age has done to me. And ya know...I think age does have a part in all of this...I really do. We have to have experiences of different feelings like remorse, guilt, love, hate, because we must use such things while in discernment.

Still though, a child most likely can point us in the way of truth concerning Spirit more so then any adult. Ironically, things of Spirit, are quite simple. Its man that has made it all so difficult. But, I understand why man has made it difficult now. And I know, these paths of man were and are needed. More so for today then long ago.

A verse that always stuck me was a verse in Isiah (I think, going on memory)...it said God created both good and evil, God made both of these things, bringing darkness and light.

The emanation of Spirit into flesh and mater...created the delusions. But its not made in a way that we cant see path the delusions. They have purpose, for us, and God knew this. It is perfect.



[edit on 21-3-2010 by LeoVirgo]

[edit on 21-3-2010 by LeoVirgo]

reply to post by LeoVirgo

The emanation of Spirit into flesh and mater...created the delusions. But its not made in a way that we cant see path the delusions. They have purpose, for us, and God knew this. It is perfect.

I agree with all you wrote the emanation into matter created a fog. The fog is not delusion, but a mist that provides the opportunity to sharpen the vision. An opportunity to know that we don't see everything as clear as we would like.

The only harmful delusion is self imposed when we say, "some one else saw for me and wrote it down, therefore, I will follow the words of that one. I do not have to look beyond the book. In fact I better not!"

I agree with the assessment made by Jesus, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains." JN 9:41

I posted here:www.abovetopsecret.com...
Concerning one aspect of Old Testament use. I agree with you, even if something is written for one purpose, does not mean it is empty of value. It's a paradox we live with.

Plus, there is reason to my madness in choosing a religion that is lost. It is so lost that the name of it is forgotten. So it would be impossible for me ever to say, "That's it, I've got it all down!" The ultimate mystery religion is the one completely unknown, the path is all there is, which winds and switches back, and dead-ends from time to time.

Even though we read many books....I think its important to let others know...there is a tool that can be used to understand what is of Spirit. This is your vessel, your body, it can be an instrument that weighs, sifts, and measures....it can be a filter of discerning between things of man and our Earthly ways that we all had to walk before understanding things of heaven and of Spirit

I'm still walking those earthly ways. Heaven is still what I look up to. It's easier to express the dichotomy as earthly and heavenly. What understanding would people gain if I spoke of the earthly and earthly dichotomy? "Say what?" Yes, exactly, not easily expressed. But yes, the visceral feeling of things, the plunging under the surface and finding what feels right and what causes nausea, or sadness, or joy.

Find actions of love, compassion, offering, humbleness, patients, mercy, ect....you will find the Spirit in the past of man....and this reaches far beyond one single book. Its within many books and it was here before any books.

My lost religion used drama to not only tell the stories but also remember the stories. Almost, can I see the masks, the dance like movements, hear the wide octave range of voice, the note signifying part of the story. Almost, not quite. I think the Dionysians carried some of our traditions on, but they are mostly forgotten. The Elysians became the national mystery religion. See how far back it goes! No one will find it, least of all me. (can you feel the pathos, the melodrama? we invented that you know)

But seriously, I've found that some historical fiction writers have a touch of recapturing the feel of a time, and the feel of the people of a time than straight historians do. They do the research from the heart and soul, they then tell it more humanly accurate, therefore more true from the human sense.



[edit on 22-3-2010 by pthena]

reply to post by pthena


Its a joy talking with you pthena...

And dont ever get me wrong in that I am still walking the path of Earthly ways very much so. I learned that it is ok we dont transform over night....if we did, where would understnading take place, how would it form?

I believe my time of cleansing did bring me to a closer path of Spirit, and during that time I was drifting further and further from my Earth ways. I was ready to run to the forests and caves and just learn through her till my dying day. I had to catch myself....for I had ties to remember...I had children...these were my Earthly duties. I believe that a monkish life is the final life for me....mabey it will happen in my elder years...mabey it will happen in another life. But I know that to keep walking in the Spirit as I did....I cared less and less for anything of Earth around me.

I realized we dont learn in a day....and we have time and age for a reason. I learned its OK....as long as I keep honest in my mind and heart of my actions and thoughts of why I do what I do. But with saying that....I think we can be aware of which is which and speak up for them both. Both are needed.

In order to survive in a Earthly body, we have to fulfill certain Earthly things. I still have desires of certain foods, certain entertainment that excites my Earthly senses...ect....it is a careful balancing act for now.

society is the demon and earth is heaven. lets rid the world of its demons so we can once again claim our place in heaven.

we only have one life, the purpose of that life is to live it.

we live in a difficut time, but like every life there is happiness sadness despair anger love and every other human emotion.

our time is no different to any other. we must go through these motions and make informed tactical decisions for change so that in the future we reach our personal and collective nirvanas.

what are we all doing for actual change?

i think every time you think of making a post, before so make one informed tactical decision for your change and your cause. then mabey we will have an actual chance of beating the nwo. my decision with this post is to organise my new protests of spybases in australasia. whats yours??

although these sites are great tools they alone wont protect. get out there!

to the person who posted the first post, have you actually done anything in order to stop this that annoys u so? not to be rude but u did mention that whoever tries to take over such holy lands should be stopped. stopped by whom? me? governments? the general public? although i did enjoy your rant and belive in the majority of what you said, your rant really does nothing. what can you do?

reply to post by antinwochick


Sometimes people need to hold a certain vibration of love and light to others. Its not a easy path telling others a belief or idea that you know they will take offense in. Its not easy offering my life as an offering for others to possibly find a light they had forgotten. Its not always about doing physical things.

Finding the light within the darkest of souls is not a light task either. Especially when there are very few here on Earth to do such a thing. Standing against the majority is doing nothing in your eyes?

I see where you are coming from though....what to do about it? I dont hold those answers. I cant bring myself to say war is a answer to anything. Even though recently I have seen why taking control over certain things going on in the planet could be beneficial. But for how long....> ?

It starts in the hearts and the minds. It starts in the children that we teach. Should we continue to teach children there is only one right way to God? Should we continue to allow some to teach their children that they will grow up only to strap a bomb to themselves for God?

Truly, it takes a village to raise a child. Truly, if the entire world agreed on raising the child...the outcome may be greater.

We must come together on our own instead of through force. This is what I try to get others to see. The hours of breathless typing on such a idea is not wasted time in my eyes. The words I speak dont seem meaningless to me.

Before there can be actions...our thinking and values on a whole must unite. Without the values and thinking uniting first....the only way we can bring change is by force....and we all know, this doesnt seem to work.

As much as I want to see Israel not go down in blood shed....I know it must happen. The cycle that has been started must work itself through. Only after it burns and many die and humans still stand here saying....'well where is God'....can we move on from such a thing.

Not saying God wont be here...but if they dont already see Thee here now....they wont see Thee here later.

I wish I had better answers. The processing of us as a whole unit takes a lot of time. Look back and see how one persons thoughts being expressed sometimes moved a mountain eventually.

The point is though....my will and offering of myself is there. If I ever get placed in a position to where they want to take my life for my words...I wont fight for this life here. This is a will that many cant fathom right now, for the true faith of this life not being 'it' is not really there even though they say it is.

So mabey the work in store for me will lay itself before me one day. Until then, my heart is all I can express.

I like what you have brought to the thread....for we must think about what we are willing to do if the point ever comes for us to act. Know what side of the line you will stand.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by antinwochick

 

Sometimes people need to hold a certain vibration of love and light to others. Its not a easy path telling others a belief or idea that you know they will take offense in. Its not easy offering my life as an offering for others to possibly find a light they had forgotten. Its not always about doing physical things.

Offering your life?

The point is though....my will and offering of myself is there. If I ever get placed in a position to where they want to take my life for my words...I wont fight for this life here. This is a will that many cant fathom right now, for the true faith of this life not being 'it' is not really there even though they say it is.

You would lay down your life for your beliefs? For the enlightenment of others? A blood sacrifice, perhaps? What of their sin in killing you? How will they become enlightened by your sacrifice?

The irony is too much LV!

reply to post by antinwochick


I guess I could add that I hope to have a retreat place one day where families can come for a vacation and learn how to work together by gathering food together, preparing the food, tending to caring for shelters together ect....and hope to have a giant library where they are welcome to go study what ever it is that interests them. If they want to go to a natural stream to be baptized or give reverence to nature...they could do so. A place to heal in more ways then one.

Course now Im getting into dreams that I dont fully know how to make them happen. What benefit does this do? It offers acceptance of all people. It offers a place for families that are caught up in the life of material things to understand what it is like to really work together and make something happen through each other and not just through a 'self'.

The path of uniting is slow, like I said, I dont think I am a big fan of sudden riddance. Im more a fan of slow reasoning, of humans sifting and measuring together...what works and what doesn't.

This reflects my way of parenting...slow reasoning. I was never a fan of fast punishment but more so of giving repetitive reasoning to my children.

I wish I had a quick fix...but I dont think there is one. Over time I hope the people that speak out today in hope for our world as a whole unite will spark some great event in our future.

Look how long it took us to move away from some of our other past beliefs. It was a slow process. I dont expect this one to be any different, especially since they are awaiting prophecies to be fulfilled. It might be another 500 to 1000 years before some can take God out of that box.

But I do see hope...because I see more people then ever before in our history standing up and speaking their hearts to others.

reply to post by teapot


Its not a sacrifice...its understanding what fighting for this life leads to. I dont care to reap those seeds. Its not about others as much as understanding what such a action would do for my spiritual growth...which is nothing.

reply to post by teapot


teapot...do you have boundaries and limits for God to work through you for spiritual things here?

reply to post by antinwochick

i think every time you think of making a post, before so make one informed tactical decision for your change and your cause. then mabey we will have an actual chance of beating the nwo. my decision with this post is to organise my new protests of spybases in australasia. whats yours??

although these sites are great tools they alone wont protect. get out there!

to the person who posted the first post, have you actually done anything in order to stop this that annoys u so? not to be rude but u did mention that whoever tries to take over such holy lands should be stopped. stopped by whom? me? governments? the general public? although i did enjoy your rant and belive in the majority of what you said, your rant really does nothing. what can you do?

Thank you for organizing protests, I hope you are including advocacy for the Chagos Islands Indigenous Population that was deported so that US could have that Diego Garcia base. Also, some advocacy for Guamanians who would like not to be pushed out for US military expansion. The problems are many. Some people organize, some people write to politicians, some write to offer morale support.

1CO 12:21 The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!" 22 On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24 while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25 so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.

I, for one appreciate your activism, if done intelligently, I also appreciate the moral support offered by LeoVirgo. It is far from nothing.

reply to post by pthena


thanks for your reply and again there was no rudeness intended, i merely wanted to plant the seed of whilst thinking of your post, the thought of some kind of action should be there as well even if it seems somewhat insignificant like a facebook cause page or invites to friends or even your own families emergency kits.

my crusade is only just begun and the initial stages are awareness that places like waihopai, tangimoana and pine gap are still in full use with new spy bases being erected also. i want to try and create mass awareness in order for mass protests that our goverments can no longer ignore.

although i am aware the diego base exists i havent yet researched it yet but because of your post i will as my action that goes to this response. all spy bases are on my agenda and i want them gone. im hoping through mass awareness we will be able to educate not just the people in pacifica but world wide that these bases used in the ECHELON are not myth and the cover ups are not conspiracys but blatant violations of human rights and privacy. if you would like to know more in the future to help or be part of this cause id love to hear from you again.

thanks.

reply to post by antinwochick


Hello again!

I want to thank you...for making me think. I have pondered your words...and your brave footsteps that you yourself are making...and you have made me think about what footsteps and direction I would like to be of.

I still dont have many answers...but you triggered something in me that has made me think of ways to act towards change. I have some ideas...some of them are not things I am ready for just yet...but in time. Thanks for that little 'push' you gave me with your questions.

My best to you and yours
LV