Abrahamic religions! Holy Land! Of God? Rant!

I am so sick and tired of these boring tired dreid up dead threads that
I had to respond. Your how old? God chose the Jews to keep his commandments and laws from antiquity. They have done that with ZEAL! I'm sorry you werent chosen...Neither was I. We both know history has been rewrittenj by the conquerors.. So what is truth? Just because YOU cant get your simple mind around it makes it false? Dont feel like the lone stranger.. I cant ethier.. We take sides.. Fact is there can be only ONE truth.. Truth is truth is thruth weather you and I agree, accept, or can even fathom it. God himself said my ways are foolish unto men. Because we have been cut off from the source since the fall. We are a penial colony headed to our final desitination... Now if you could get your HUMAN mind around the womders of the universe... Could explain the unexplainable then I would agree qand jump o0n board with you... I know for a fact you cannnot simplily by your stupid unenlightened humaniistic post.. How Can fallen mqan even begin to understand God? We can not! He chose one people, not you not me but the Jews.. Thats why you are so pissed off... Man up and admit up!

reply to post by HooHaa


Your entire premise hangs on this:

God chose the Jews to keep his commandments and laws from antiquity. They have done that with ZEAL!

No they haven't. How many times did YHWH/HASHEM kick them out of the land for worshipping idols and not keeping commandments? Hint: More than once.

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

Seems you do not have a Bible on hand and therefore would not understand why there is such a debate over this land.

Nor have you delved into the history of the land after God broke up the nation of Israel and gave prophecy that it would come back together in the future and never to be destroyed again.

I know that this is falling upon deaf ears as the Bible says there would be scoffers that are willingly ignorant of

we are ignorant when we refuse to learn or simply do not know and understand,
to rant against something it is best if one learns about it so they can give educated arguments of the subject weather the except the information they learned or not at least they can speak on the matter with some creedance.

It should be enough that the Bible prophecy of Israel becoming a nation again would be enough to understand why there is such terrible fighting in that region.

I was a Christian for well over 20 years. I have a total of about 10 Bibles in my home along with many comentaries, I have a bookshelf full of books that all are related to the Bible and what it says. I have studied it plenty.

I only truly saw what the Spirit had within it when I began to let the Spirit lead me through it instead of trusting that man had it all correct.

So try me...and my uneducated arguments. All I can tell you is what I have been shown. I can tell you before I was shown I had to spend over a year purifying myself in many ways. This taught me the respect of what Holy things are.

I know the History of the land...and if you like...go seek within your heart and not the book and find out for yourself.

God had nothing to do with fighting over that land.

God has no chosen ones.

You really thing God would make a plan that would keep the children separated and concerned over Earthly things.

Just ask Thee yourself.

When man says...I am chosen and God gave me rights to this land....what do you think is going to happen?

How hard would it of been to prophecies such things for the future with such a stage being set?

Stick with the simple things first. Learn what is of spirit is not of flesh. Learn that the Spirit only dwells in life itself....not in a ARK....not in a Temple built with hands.

You might want to research the history before the Hebrews...to see where many of their traditions and ideas of belief came from.

It is not a 'fault' of man for things he does not know.

[edit on 16-3-2010 by LeoVirgo]

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Thank you for keeping a light shining here....

Originally posted by Mykahel
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

Many of us do want the 3rd Temple for purposes of worshiping there or even because we think God's presence we return specifically to that temple. Scripture prophesies that a third temple will be built before the return of our savior and king. this is why so many of us are excited to see the construction of the third temple close at hand.

God Himself designated areas of land as being Holy, the only problem with that comes if you do not believe in that faith and think that all faiths are viable ways to God. If there is one true God and he has designated a place as being holy, it is holy. Just because everyone else feels offended that they can't build a taco stand on top of a site proclaimed to be holy by God does not mean that everybody should have equal access to do whatever they want on that holy ground.

Can't a religious body of people own property just like any other group of people?

Just some thoughts, not trying to be disrespectful or rude.

Do you not know where Gods presense has been and still is now.....within you!

Did Jesus seem concerned about fighting for a land?

What is Holy can only dwell within life.

Cut the tree, I am there....lift a rock you will find me.

There is spiritual wisdom waiting on you....dont ever think you arent worthy to receive it.

If it is a Earthly Temple you await for God to dwell....then please take a look at the master you have chosen.

[edit on 16-3-2010 by LeoVirgo]

reply to post by Dasher


Are we in agreement if I say Jesus was the first fruit that opened the womb?

Does that make sense to you?

A first fruit causes an opening in the womb.

Originally posted by HooHaa
I am so sick and tired of these boring tired dreid up dead threads that
I had to respond. Your how old? God chose the Jews to keep his commandments and laws from antiquity. They have done that with ZEAL! I'm sorry you werent chosen...Neither was I. We both know history has been rewrittenj by the conquerors.. So what is truth? Just because YOU cant get your simple mind around it makes it false? Dont feel like the lone stranger.. I cant ethier.. We take sides.. Fact is there can be only ONE truth.. Truth is truth is thruth weather you and I agree, accept, or can even fathom it. God himself said my ways are foolish unto men. Because we have been cut off from the source since the fall. We are a penial colony headed to our final desitination... Now if you could get your HUMAN mind around the womders of the universe... Could explain the unexplainable then I would agree qand jump o0n board with you... I know for a fact you cannnot simplily by your stupid unenlightened humaniistic post.. How Can fallen mqan even begin to understand God? We can not! He chose one people, not you not me but the Jews.. Thats why you are so pissed off... Man up and admit up!

Im not pissed...and Im 34...was a Christian for a long time. Studied it plenty.

And no....I can tell you God has no chosen people...all people are Gods. If you think God would knowing cause seperation here....you do not understand the nature of God and the purpose of man to do the will of God...the will reflects the nature.

There is no fallen...we are not a mistake...this world is meant to be just the way it is...mabey you are having ha hard time accepting that. We are not paying for the price of Eve or Adam....your spiritual birth right has been taken from you by man.

I assure you...there is one truth that CAN be found...and that is the truth to the nature of God.

Seek God honest and humbly...you will find it. It is all more glorious then any man can tell another man.

BTW....you are no more special then anyone...and there is no body more special then you....in Gods eyes.

We all are chosen....if the unseen life runs through you...you are a child of God.

[edit on 16-3-2010 by LeoVirgo]

To all....


What do you think seek and you will find means?

Do you really really think deep in your heart that this means to go seek a book?

Yes it was very disappointing for me when I learned God didnt leave all the answers in a book. There are spiritual wisdom's in the book...but you have to use the Holy Spirit to find them and gain understanding of them.

The key is to know what is of flesh is of flesh (Earth)....know what is of spirit is of spirit (God).

God and Jesus both never gave their pearls to the ones that would call them foolish.

Jesus taught things of spirit and those that sought things of Earth did not understand him.

You all must carry your own cross...there is no scapegoat....God does not need nor ever needed a blood sacrifice.

How many cultures practiced blood sacrifices? Like I said in another post....the Hebrews used practices and traditions that already existed elsewhere. Study the lands they dwelled in...see where their ideas were birthed from.

To seek God....is a personal path. Answers cant not be just given because there would be no understanding of the nature of God.

Be true seekers...not followers. God is waiting...the Holy Spirit will guide you....even Jesus will guide you. Not because he is a 'savior' but because he walked the path and became the first fruit.

Only each of us can save ourselves from our deeds and words and thoughts...if you cast them onto another...are you then truly claiming them?

All God ever needed was a seeker with a humbled heart and honest mind.

Originally posted by Abbby
reply to post by LeoVirgo

 

Oooooo! I like what you say here! No flame, but I will give you a S&F!!

I always wondered why Israel was claimed as the "promised" land....there's nothing great about it, no paradise....has pros and cons just like anywhere else.
And what kind of God would encourage man to worship land anyway? Or be a "jealous" God? Or let it be known that he choses favorites amoung his children?! Sounds like that God has some serious issues he needs to deal with...I thought God was supposed to be "perfect", not have a problem with his self esteem.

Hi Abbby:

Just a couple of things to respond to this post. In my understanding of the God you speak of -who I love very much, for good reason - He is not jealous the way we are jealous. This word conveys, in context, the fact that He is not simply neutral over our feelings for Him, or the lack thereof.

When we love other things and not Him, nor understand the preeminence He truly holds in reality, He is not unaffected, but He wants our love regardless.
We can glimpse this concept when we consider our own feelings in similar circumstances.

He is not jealous the way human beings are because He is not human. But we are in His image in that we experience reality and respond to it in a more than physical way.

As far as the rest about Israel, I agree with the OP about God's stated intentions for us in the world.
The things of the flesh will pass away, just as we see in the ruins of ancient settlements. I believe the things we do that are less tangible, mercy, justice, selflessness, will certainly last, and are what God truly calls us to care about and value.

reply to post by Dasher


Very,very true.... The whole Middle East, including Israel will be laid to waste. Watch....

Originally posted by Mykahel
Can't a religious body of people own property just like any other group of people?

Just some thoughts, not trying to be disrespectful or rude.

Not to be disrespectful or rude, but not when they are causing turmoil for the rest of the world!! Absolutely not!! Also, we are entering an era where the idea of a group of people or landmass being "special" is going out the proverbial window.

Not to be disrespectful or rude, but times are changing and those who cannot or refuse to change with it will not see the good that is to come.

reply to post by EMPIRE


That is exactly the way I look at it. However, you will never get a bunch of fanatics to see it way. That's ok though, their time is growing short.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
It is not a 'fault' of man for things he does not know.

[edit on 16-3-2010 by LeoVirgo]

Oh, but,Leo, I do believe that it is. I tell you why. Most men do not bother to study. They do not bother to research. They do not bother to allow the Holy Spirit guide them. All of which, I believe you have done.I know I have.

So,in a sense, it is the fault of man for that which he does not know. The truth is there, but it's not in the church, synagogue or mosque.... There will be no excuse for he who does not know.



[edit on 17-3-2010 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
All God ever needed was a seeker with a humbled heart and honest mind.

The key word there is SEEKER.... Those who think that the TRUTH is copied and pasted for them in some text are only fooling themself. Leo, I have to tell you, I am in complete agreement with you in this thread.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
Are we in agreement if I say Jesus was the first fruit that opened the womb?

Does that make sense to you?

A first fruit causes an opening in the womb.

Yes. The firstborn of many brothers (and sisters).

If you understand birth (my first son was born just over 2 weeks ago), you know that in normal circumstances the child pushes itself down into the birth canal. The process of life is much like the increasing awareness of a child.

Consider that we are in the dark, even unaware of what light is. How would we know to push forth into the world, except that our instinct is inborn (gifted). It is not something earned, but it is taught to us in our basic form. Likewise, faith in the provision of God by God (Christ) is the "point of contact" for our spiritual instincts to "kick-in."

Contrast to a miscarriage. My wife and I also experienced one of those early last year. Thankfully the sac was empty and so there was no child present, but consider it as an allegory of those who are alive in this world and yet set their eyes/hopes on temporal things. They truly are empty and will not be born into the next life.

Digressing, how would we know to seek Light, if we are ignorant and blind, except that it is revealed to us? Once the "light is on" and blindness is removed, things are seen. It is not a matter of choosing as when faced with an option, for who would reject "good" if "good" was clearly offered? The selfish would accept for corrupt cause, and this is why the scriptures refer to the idea of certain peoples being blinded for periods of time. Likewise, but contrasting, the chaotic have no clue and remain in darkness. It is the Children of God who receive the gift of God with understanding and understanding expressed. Just as the Word came into the world and also brought the Spirit of the Word (as Comfort). Just as God is Order and Order expressed, Charity and Charity expressed, and these are One.

We must be taught all things by experience or instinct, whether first hand or second. Too often people seem to think that in the process of life, we are all given the same faculties or "chance" to achieve. And what of those who are born without vision? What of those born without full mental capacity? Some are gifted more than others in terms of physical bodies and the same is true for our spiritual bodies. This is not a shame, this is a gift to those who have received more. And it is also still a gift to those who have received little! What creature in this realm deserves a gift? None, except They who entered the very realm They established. More so, by entering with compassion and humility, They sustain what was once temporal and provided that the temporal would become eternal.

The Creators are not taught. They are Teachers. They are Judges. They are Order AND Charity. OrderCharity in the Void. OrderCharity are what we can grasp of the Creators who are beyond comprehension, and are truly able and alive. The Creators are not taught, they are understanding and understanding expressed. Creativity and Creativity expressed. Truth and Truth expressed. Truth is truly alive. Good and bad become a more "fluid" matter in this understanding.

Truly, be as God would have you to be; OrderCharity and OrderCharity expressed, or Pride/Chaos and Pride/Chaos expressed. Do not forget that you reap as you sow.

Pride and Chaos are the gates of Void and destruction (hell) is the process of decay/void. I hope in Comfort for my brothers and sisters who are many, but few.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
Only each of us can save ourselves from our deeds and words and thoughts...if you cast them onto another...are you then truly claiming them?

All God ever needed was a seeker with a humbled heart and honest mind.

There is no amount of good in the flesh that one can do to accommodate for the lack of our soul. Christ is not simply about being Savior in terms of an idol or in terms of a master, but rather, in terms of providing what could not be otherwise obtained.

There is nothing we can do to bear the weight of our own burdens except that God provides. This was not done as an optional freebie as most teachings express, but rather, those who are conceived of the spiritual realm have been provided an easy labor as Christ labored where and how we cannot. And as sure as a child growing in the womb is going to come out (please don't argue about health oddities), those who are provided for will go forth into the next realm, even living in this one expectantly and without arrogance.

It is not because we conduct ourselves poorly, but because we are poor and also conduct ourselves poorly that we are unable to ever obtain eternal life. Even if one was to live a perfect life, he would still not have the riches required to be established and sustained eternally.

But you are truly right, a broken and contrite heart, God will not despise. A broken and contrite heart is provided for, but do not be deceived, a broken and contrite heart is not riches itself, it is the beginning of eternal gifts.

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


While I am not sure that I disagree, I also do not wish harm to anyone and I am also sure that no further specific events must take place for the benefit of the Children of God. Anything from the time of Christ and after could more closely be related to the womb prepping for the growing Child. It would be very good for people to study the process of birth and how the womb and child are related. Very specific correlations to the Children of God and the World can be drawn.

The birth pangs in the Revelation, the contractions of spiritual labor are certainly coming closer together and the full birth of the Children of God is nearing, but I assure you, after seeing my son's birth and the labor that my wife went through to bring him to us, and also having kept in mind that the process of this world is as a womb, I am certain that things will be both more terrible and more comforting than what is generally expected and even hoped for. Labor is rough on a child, but it is for the sake of the child.

Lastly, consider, as the placenta is eaten by many creatures after birth for the returning of nutrition and hormones back to the body (and, of course, other reasons), the world will be also consumed in similar fashion. I am not sure how, or in what way it will be expressed, but I am convinced that the images in scripture and in our lives are both more literal and more figurative than most consider.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo

Do you not know where Gods presense has been and still is now.....within you!

God's power is displayed in all creation, but He specifically dwelt within the Tent of Meeting and later in the Temple. His presence left the Temple when Yeshua died on the cross, tearing the curtain separating the Holy of Holies from the rest of the world. God's presence can still be seen in His creation, but His Holy Spirit only dwells in those who have accepted Him.

Exodus 40:34-35
34 Then the cloud covered the Tent of Meeting, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. 35 Moses could not enter the Tent of Meeting because the cloud had settled upon it, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.

Don't forget that God designated plenty of places as being holy, including the ground surrounding the burning bush in Exodus 3:1-5

Did Jesus seem concerned about fighting for a land?

Yes, but it was not his goal during his time on earth so he did not speak of a physical kingdom, but rather the Kingdom of Heaven making its place on Earth. He will slaughter his enemies when He returns to establish his kingdom, as read in Revelation. He gave plenty of warnings about this himself as he spoke of the judgment to come throughout the gospels.

Revelation 19:11-16
11I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. 12His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter."[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

What is Holy can only dwell within life.

Cut the tree, I am there....lift a rock you will find me.

Where are you getting that? God is not some "Earth Spirit" like movies such as AVATAR would have you think.

There is spiritual wisdom waiting on you....dont ever think you arent worthy to receive it.

no of us are worthy of being in the presence of God, we are only made worthy because of the sacrifice of Yeshua on the cross. Though God does give wisdom to those who ask Him for it believing they will receive it.

If it is a Earthly Temple you await for God to dwell....then please take a look at the master you have chosen.

I never said I thought God was going to dwell in the third temple. He has already removed the barriers between himself and us. There will be those that believe that He will, and perhaps His glory will fill the temple, but we all have access to Him now because we have been forgiven.

I simply said that the construction of the third temple is prophesied as being necessary for the second coming of the Christ to be fulfilled.

[edit on 16-3-2010 by LeoVirgo]

reply to post by Mykahel


Everything that holds life holds the Holy Spirit. Nothing of life can exists without the Holy Spirit within it. This was the true offering of self of God for this experience and existence. Yes this stretches its branches to all life, plants, animals ect....no the into does not come from Avatar....such wisdom's have been known for thousands of years. And no...its not paganism either. Its understanding that without the Holy Spirit...no life would exists.

We were never NOT worthy. You have no reason to believe that besides what the book has told you.

God never required a sacrifice....God made this world here with a purpose...that purpose is us to Seek the life force within us.

Man has taught you that your not worthy....that God is this dictator and if you dont obey there will be hell to pay. We do reap what we sow...but only to relearn what we need to....its not a punishment. It is the mercy of God that we are allowed to reap what we sow.

God has always dwelled here...no Temple was needed. God is not mad that man has believed in such ways....for it was all needed so we can then start to see where God is not...such as in things that hold no life.

Earth is not Gods final destination by any means...and Earth is not our final destination by any means.

Any one can learn the same understandings....but if you do not place faith in the idea that the Holy Spirit can lead you through life itself and not just a book which has distortion....then really...where is your faith?

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
It is not a 'fault' of man for things he does not know.

[edit on 16-3-2010 by LeoVirgo]

Oh, but,Leo, I do believe that it is. I tell you why. Most men do not bother to study. They do not bother to research. They do not bother to allow the Holy Spirit guide them. All of which, I believe you have done.I know I have.

So,in a sense, it is the fault of man for that which he does not know. The truth is there, but it's not in the church, synagogue or mosque.... There will be no excuse for he who does not know.



[edit on 17-3-2010 by SpeakerofTruth]

I happen to believe that all will only relearn and be given opportunities in a different light/experience to gain understanding and find the urge to 'seek'.

All paths serve a purpose for the unity of us...even the paths that have separated us. So i a sense, even the Abrahamic faiths are serving the purpose of unity for we must have the polarity of that path that is not in order to find the path that is.

It has been no mistake of mankind's history. All of it offers us something as a whole unit...time will allow it to all fall into place.

But I do very much believe we are in a time of 'choice' and that there may be a spiritual occurrence that will allow those that are ready to move forward from this 3 dimensional experience to do so if willing. The reason I say 'if willing' is because there is always 'choice'. Some may choose to stay with Earth and with 'man'. I believe this has happened before and we have had mind/spirit complexes that have chosen to stay here for a long time.

The ones that are seeking material things for spiritual wisdom's will not be given up on by God by any means. Reaping what we sow is not God given up on anyone.

If God never gives up...then neither shall we. So till my last breath...these words I will speak. Not forcefully, not in a 'or else' kind of tone....but in a tone of hope that man will find God has been waiting all this time....all the while...man thinks they are waiting of God.

I dont seek rest yet and I dont seek self salvation. What I learned was that this experience is not about a 'self' at all....unless you consider all of mankind a 'ONE SELF'. Which would explain the crazy idea of a soul willing to come back here....it would not be for the 'self' but for all the other 'selves. This is a core to the will of God.

In a way....this could be over stepping others free will...for I give things they have not sought for themselves. But....I can offer the idea that they can and must seek it for themselves to understand it...and to not take my word for it. The fact that it does not have to be taken from me as truth helps me be content with the idea of sharing such things. Everyone can test it all for themselves...but you and I both know...if they dont take God out of the box that man has placed Thee in....then the wisdom's we speak of wont be found.

Would love your thoughts back on the idea that all things...even the paths that are not....serve a purpose in the end.