Women who wear burkas on the street in France face fines of £700

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by marg6043
Anybody that leaves their nation of birth because oppression and looking for a better life should assimilate the traditions and values of the nation the seek as their new home.

If people did do that how much corporatism would be in the united states on a social level?

this sounds like isolationism to me

we've never been united... i don't think I understand your point. Are you saying your for burkas or against?

Originally posted by anoymous7
we've never been united... i don't think I understand your point. Are you saying your for burkas or against?

I'm against what marg said, that assimilation is necessary
United States would be the worst place to live if assimilation was always necessary for immigration purposes.

Similar things can be said for UK and France, perhaps not as much as the U.S. because U.S. is still too green to really have a culture(don't take it the wrong way), but I am just against the idea of assimilation.

Seriously, why are we sounding like the borg?
That's just lame!

If you are against the Burqa I want my question answered about prostitution then.

For the record I am against the Burqa, nobody should wear it however there should be no legal sanctions behind it.

I don't care if women prostitute themselves out(personal choice)... # half the women in this wold might as well be prostitutes... lol, that was quite a misogynist comment , but that's what it really seems like from my perspective... probably not 1/2 seems like 1/4 sounds more reasonable.

It's still one of the most lucrative professions worldwide isn't it?

Conclusion: I don't condone prostitution.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


That is a word of the corporate agenda that is been used to promote what is killing nations around the world with free trade, including the US, while many countries does practice isolationism everyday to protect their assets America is falling apart because because corporate agendas in the pursue of cheap labor and profits has made the meaning of that word obscene.

And people have fallen for it.

A nation that doesn't protect their heritage and their culture will fall for the vultures.





[edit on 8-1-2010 by marg6043]

reply to post by marg6043


what does globalism have to do with assimilation?

you are talking about two completely unrelated topics

reply to post by ModernAcademia


No is not, they go hand on hand, cheap labor, immigration and global agendas and corporatism, you brought the term isolationism, and don't even realized that is linked to assimilation and immigration within corporate agendas.



Interesting.

BTW I still applaud France for imposing their own laws on those invited into their nation, assimilate or move on to the US where everybody has lost their identity, while trying to please each other.

Brilliant by France (though I fear they are doomed anyway as their Islamic population is huge)

Most people in Europe had no desire to flood their countries with islamic people, many of whom observe their religion in a manner not seen in Europe for centuries


What a day it will be for Europe when the Islamic numbers decline

reply to post by blueorder


The problems is that flooding nations in Europe and increasing their numbers by births is an agenda all on its own.

See as the numbers increase their gain power, through government, corporatism and voting rights, this in turn open the door to policy changes that will benefit their own culture and heritage then the nation targeted starts to lose its own identity.

This no new, it happens through history during war invasion and conquer, modern days is a different type of warfare.

But a warfare indeed.

Just look the failed attempts of the US to influence Iraq and Afghanistan culture and heritage.

A fiasco because US has lost its own identity a long time ago that can not longer influence those it invades.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


On your prostitution question; it's a personal choice. As long as nobody is forcing them into that life then go right ahead. There are plenty of hookers out there who make very good money and don't get mistreated doing so.

First, the burka is not a requirement of Islam. The requirement in Islam is that a woman must cover everything except for her face, hands, and feet. Some cultures impose extra restrictions, or some men impose these restrictions upon their wives, but it is not the mandate. This law would not be against the faith, but perhaps cultures or overly possessive men.

Second, a Muslim woman could assimilate into any culture they choose to move to while maintaining the religious requirement (which according to the Quran is her decision to wear it or not), including France, because the face needn't be covered.

Personally, at this day in age I am uncomfortable with anyone, man, woman, or child covering their faces unless they are outside in a blizzard. People need to be identified, as simple as that. I know many Muslim American women and other than their conservative fashion choice they are just as American as me.

Originally posted by Mr Headshot
There are plenty of hookers out there who make very good money and don't get mistreated doing so.

Is this also true for women who wear burqa's or do you think all every single one of them are forced to wear it?

About "personal choice". In accepting to wear a burkha; even if by personal "choice", a woman is basically saying the men are correct in assuming that those who don't do so are immoral or have loose morals.

That is absolute hogwash. To suggest that a woman who reveals some or any part of her skin is "asking for it" is total baloney. It is insulting the dignity of every decent woman who does so.

About completely covering up. For someone to completely hide their identity by covering up from head to toe does present as a potential risk to society. What if men did this; especially if they all wore the same black gettup? Would that be considered OK? I think not. Even if all someone does is cover their face with a mask or bandana like in the old cowboy movies, it would be considered inappropriate. So how is it OK for a woman to do it?

It is not. The very idea of having rules or codes that differ for men and for women is discriminatory and unacceptable in any modern society.

I am all for personal discretion and modesty. But what level suits a person should be their own business and not imposed by anyone.

Well the immigrants in my city may not speak Engrish

But the also don't come to my city trying to force religious law into the system...

Sorry for all of you who experience such, hard call

I guess if they want to wear face things thats their deal, but once it gets off the individuals
body onto others biz, thats where my firm line is drawn.

Lucky I am not French

Originally posted by unicorn1
Well done to France.
Ultimately it's good for women too. Let's not kid ourselves that all of them want it. And in some cases it is no more than an 'Up yours, I am different' gesture. It's a 'statement' that we are seeing more and more on the streets of Britain.
Plus it is such a bar to effective communication imo.
This is the UK. It is not and never will be an Islamic nation. The backlash has started and I hope we follow the lead.
Vive la France!

[edit on 8-1-2010 by unicorn1]

when in rome do as the romans.

would my wife be permitted to walk the streets of islamic states in her jeans and strapy tops?
would i be alowed to become intoxicated through alcohol?
would we be able to erect a place of christian worship in a islamic state?

we live in a culture that uses face to face communication, eye contact and facial gestures body language.

i for one have no issue with anyone of another creed,culture,race or religion coming to my country of birth so long as they abide by our rules and regulations and cultural norms and give back to the system that allows them to live here.
i have no issue if they use their native tounge, practice their religion or wear their cultural attire in the privacy of their own homes. but while out in public fit in and act in a way that is culturaly accepted by the native population of the said country.

there are areas in towns and cites across the uk that are predominantly made up of non british born people, immagration should also mean integration.

those who come to our country do so of their own accord no one forces them to come, so they should out of the respect for the said culture embrace it at least publicly as i would if i were to go live in a country with different ways and values to my home land it's just a matter of respect.

reply to post by serbsta


I believe it should be the women who decide if they want to wear these burkas (excuse me if I spell it wrong), without any intruders "pupeting" her decision.

reply to post by joedoe1982


What's a better country?
Your country or Saudi Arabia?

reply to post by Mr Headshot

It's called assimilation, something we should try over here in the states.

Sorry but my friend, Jim Crow, told me that you don't want assimilation. What? You expect things to be different 50 years later? Elephants have a long memory and so do we. It's crazy to suddenly believe that a group of people are going to ignore hundreds of years of treatment. There is no assimilation in America, the majority wants you to be white like them.

Keeping a national identity when you're being taken over by other cultures (intentional or not) is a hard thing to do and if you want to stay the same country, it's essential.

This country has no national identity. We are Americans and that includes those that are black, white, chinese, native american, and hispanic. This isn't your country but our country.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


neither is better than the other, both countrys have their plus and minus.

if you are asking which i prefer more my answer is england as this is my country of birth.

but i would like to have the climate of saudi arabia

Originally posted by Occy Anonymous
reply to post by DEEZNUTZ

 

No, I completely there should be more protection for women, but a burka is not abusive. While it should be the womans choice to wear one, she shouldn't be forced to not wear one. For some people their faith is more important then anything else.

Why is it that if westerners were to go to live in some of these countries the SAME treatment is acceptable in the reverse? IE: they MUST cover their heads, they MUST conform, but when a person chooses to leave that country to live in another the new countries culture should take a backseat?

I applaud France for this step in remaining FRANCE. It's quite simple, if your religion or such is so important to you, then don't move to France. Since being topless in France is acceptable in some areas and has been acceptable for a long time, one should not visit if this offends. The whole PC thing is really getting out of hand.

..Ex

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by blueorder

 

Just look the failed attempts of the US to influence Iraq and Afghanistan culture and heritage.

A fiasco because US has lost its own identity a long time ago that can not longer influence those it invades.

Did you really just say that?? Are you really that much of a fascist?

You believe that not only do countries have the right to make everyone "assimilate" when they immigrate to said country.. But that imperialistic nations like the U.S. have the right to imposed OUR culture onto other nations that we invade!???!

Your argument falls into crumbles.

Shouldn't, by your standards, the U.S. have to assimilate to THEIR culture, considering that we literally invaded their country by FORCE?

You are the definition of a fascist. However, most fascists here atleast make logical sense, arguing for the culture of any country. You however, just believe that the west is morally superior, and we should also impose our culture on every other nation. If they don't like it, tough.

But if you don't like them LIVING THEIR OWN LIVES, not forcing their culture on YOU, unless you just don't feel comfortable even LOOKING at them, then they have to change to fit what you want.

Like I said, you are the definition of FASCIST.

You will probably only realize how stupid and brainwashed you are on your death bed, which will be sad for you, but good for the rest of the world that doesn't want to conform to your imperialism.

People like you are literally the reason Islamic terrorism exists. Blame yourself.