Originally posted by Occy Anonymous
This is an infringement on religious freedom.

except the burka is cultural, not religous

Originally posted by rapunzel222
Good. burkas are used in the oppression of women and are a BAD symbol against womens rights. they SHOULD be banned, until all women have a genuine CHOICE as to whether they want to wear it or not.

if there's no choice, its oppression and needs to stop.

WTF? You make no sense. You say that we should give them a CHOICE, but say that they should be banned? How is that giving somebody a choice to wear them? Oh wait, they should only have the choice if it happens to agree with your fascist viewpoint.

You said that forcing them to wear it is oppression, but forcing them NOT to wear them ISN'T oppression?

Your logic fails on many counts.

Originally posted by rapunzel222

Originally posted by heyo
I smell the feminist movement. They've also recently made insults illegal in marriage. It irks them no end to see women subjugated, and are adamant in their solipsism.
That being said, it's no one's business what the french do except the french. Take Quebec for example. They are aggressive in maintaing their culture and have succeeded in doing so because of it.

the reason for the feminist movement is that generations of women finally got sick of being abused by men. Learn some history before posting ignorant comments..

This burka situation being caused by the feminist movement has nothing to do with the reasons that the feminist movement came to be. That's like saying because something was started as a noble cause it doesn't matter what they do after that. I was born innocent, so it doesn't matter what I do. I think you need to either learn or relearn english, or perhaps brush up on your comprehension.

A question needs to be asked here

are burkas ever forced on to individuals any where in the world?

If so France as a country has the right to review their "use" within it's own borders. As a democracy it has to legislate for the majority of the population and if there is a danger of some of its citizens in certain areas to be coerced or pressured into this situation, whether for cultural or for religious reasons, then they are quite correct in their actions

If someone can prove and assure me that there are no women anywhere in the world that have been forced or pressurised into wearing a burka, I will of course rescind the above statement

[edit on 8/1/10 by osc121]

[edit on 8/1/10 by osc121]

Just to clarify, I am simply stating that forcing someone to not wear a burkah is just as bad as forcing someone to wear a burkah.

The government is being hypocritical in stating that women who wear burkahs should be fined, it doesn't make sense to say we promote freedom, so long as we control it. The laws should be for the protection of women who CHOOSE to not wear burkahs not forcing them all to take it off.

I'm all for multiculturalism, and I don't care if people wear burkas or run around naked.
The people I know in Australia who would like an anti-burka law are not Aussies trying to deprive women of their right to choose, they are Muslim women who want to live as Muslims here without their menfolk being able to force them to cover up.

Howard, who I always despised, has been bagged here for his speech to Muslims. However many women in Australia were glad to hear it, as they were sick of being leered at, groped and treated as sluts by the Muslim males here. We have had Muslim clerics here preaching that Australian women in normal summer clothes are "meat left out for dogs," just asking to be raped. And many terrible rapes have been carried out here by Muslims who have proceeded to accuse the women in court of deserving it.

I can no longer catch a taxi as most taxis in this area, (Bayswater,) are driven by Muslim men. They treat you like crap from the moment they see you are travelling alone, delighting in trying to frighten you. One tried to force himself on me, pushing his way into the back seat, grabbed my handbag and drove me down to Dandenong with the doors set so I couldn't open them. He told me to get out in the middle of the intersection and threw my bag out into the traffic when I wouldn't.

Dandenong was about 40k from where I was wanting to go.

I rang the taxi company and complained, and they said if I made the complaint official they'd prosecute me for not paying my fare. I contacted the ombudsman and he said I could do nothing, as it was my word against the driver's. - Well of course it was, those cowards are not going to go that far in front of witnesses. Sadly that was not the first or last time I had Muslim drivers try to make me have sex.

BTW, I'm in my 50s and dress like a lady, not like a slut, so god knows how skimpily dressed young women are being treated.

This is the background of women wearing the burka. On the one hand they are pressured by their men into wearing it because these men believe women are sluts if they don't. On the other hand the women are indoctrinated into believing any show of skin is shameful, and that it's always a woman's fault if a man rapes her or treats her badly.

One of the saddest things I've seen is a lovely Muslim boy, caring and intelligent, grow up to be a violent leering brute like his father. That has finally convinced me. We should not let Muslim men emigrate here at all. They don't come here looking to freely practice their beliefs. They come here looking to impose their way of thinking on the rest of the world, treating us with hatred and contempt, and feeling justified in raping and abusing any woman who, by their standards, is uncovered.

Things were not always like that with Muslims here. I knew some 30 years back, who had lives here 20 years already, who were content to mind their own business and just be like any other migrant family with their own beliefs. Actually I worked with them for a few years in a home business. I was the only non-Muslim there, and really enjoyed the warm-hearted family environment.

Multiculturalism means different cultures living side by side, in harmony. The Muslim men coming out here now are not interested in that, they want to impose their ways onto us.

On the other hand most of the women do want to integrate and make friends with all types of Australians, but if their men can force the burka on them they don't have much chance to.


There are also health issues at stake. Australia is hot enough without having to wear a thick black tent, and humans all need sun on their skin to make vitamin D. Wearing a burka means vitamin D deficiency with all the ills that go along with it.

Although I can definately see why the French are doing this and there are very good reasons behind it, I can't help being concerned as to where this may lead. Whats next I wonder? I remember being asked to leave places because of how I was dressed in my younger years as I was a punk then a goth. Shouldn't we be able to wear whatever we like? I guess that same argument could be applied to offensive slogan tshirts and kkk robes tho.....
Its a tough one and Im totally conflicted. Not sure i'm happy with the state infringing on another freedom regardless of what it is.
Great subject and discussion OP. thanks

Edit to add: S&F OP, I like threads that provoke a good debate and make me think!

[edit on 8-1-2010 by xtr3m3paranoia]

Are you saying Christian doctrine doesn't do the same to women? Name me one religion that does promote homosexuality.

good to know.lol.

Both sides in Israel are at fault, they are both ignorant of each other and stuck in a loop.

NO! it is not the majority at all, people only take notice of the bad ones, the media only reports on the bad ones so people assume that is the majority. The majority are good people who you wouldn't even notice in everyday life. They just want to live their lives free of prejudice and give their children a chance they never had.

Yes actually all those definitions matched it: 1. by supporting Frances law, you are stating that one race is superior and has power over the other. 2. Not you personally, but the bulk of western countries governments are discriminatory of middle easterns even if they don't admit it: when was the last time you saw a pro-muslim story on the news? 3. By not giving the women a chance to decide whether or not to wear a burka you are being intolerant to their beliefs.

It is easy to pull the race card, however when one makes such strong statements as you own it's alot easier.

Originally posted by purplemonkey

wait let me get this straight, they shouldn't have to give up their culture... but we have to give up ours... ooookkkkk

[edit on 8-1-2010 by purplemonkey]

Where does it mean that you lose your culture? I don't get the point. This is bit idiotic for 'free' western societies.