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Women who wear burkas on the street in France face fines of £700

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posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 06:35 AM
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Originally posted by rapunzel222
Good. burkas are used in the oppression of women and are a BAD symbol against womens rights. they SHOULD be banned, until all women have a genuine CHOICE as to whether they want to wear it or not.

if there's no choice, its oppression and needs to stop.


Lol, you say that it's good to make them illegal and then say in the same post that they should have choice. You even type it in all caps, you're hilarious




posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 06:41 AM
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I don't have a problem with how anyone dresses, growing up in Brighton kinda does that to you..

But as with anything it does rather have to be a free will choice.. apart from that I have no problems with how anyone dresses.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 06:42 AM
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Originally posted by Occy Anonymous . . .
But yeah the law should be against the forceful wearing of one, ah well it's a crazy world.

And what a useful law that would be . . .

You don't understand the Muslim culture too well if you think a Muslim girl/woman can take her father/husband/male relatives to court for pushing her into wearing a burka.

If they can pressure her into wearing a burka they can pressure her out of taking them to court. If they can't force her to wear a burka she has no case.
Besides, it's not a case of a man holding a woman down and clothing her in this. What they do is indoctrinate the little girls from childhood into being ashamed of their bodies and their femininity, and believing they must cover up or be ogled and risk rape.

They claim it's for the girl's own good, and that they are only showing they care about their safety.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 07:08 AM
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Originally posted by Occy Anonymous
This is an infringement on religious freedom. Nothing more nothing less, it's wrong.



Then you do not understand the concept of laïcité in France. It means state and Church are seperated, the public domain should be a neutral environment so people have all the freedom to choose their religion[or not] or ideologies without being subject to these religious harassments.[and then explicitly due to the husband of the burka women]This is especially important to public schools where in France it is also forbidden to wear burka's or scarfs as a teacher[or as a child].France also deported an imam back to Egypt, these people incite small civil wars in the outer cities of Paris.The French have no other choice then to protect their own heritage, it should be an example for the rest of Europe.

[edit on 8-1-2010 by Foppezao]



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 07:14 AM
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Originally posted by Kailassa

Originally posted by Occy Anonymous . . .
But yeah the law should be against the forceful wearing of one, ah well it's a crazy world.

And what a useful law that would be . . .

You don't understand the Muslim culture too well if you think a Muslim girl/woman can take her father/husband/male relatives to court for pushing her into wearing a burka.

If they can pressure her into wearing a burka they can pressure her out of taking them to court. If they can't force her to wear a burka she has no case.
Besides, it's not a case of a man holding a woman down and clothing her in this. What they do is indoctrinate the little girls from childhood into being ashamed of their bodies and their femininity, and believing they must cover up or be ogled and risk rape.

They claim it's for the girl's own good, and that they are only showing they care about their safety.


I wouldn't say that is true of all Muslim... I know a number of Egyptian and Iranian ladies that would kick the ass of any man that tried that.. of the ones I know the Egyptian ladies tend to be pretty fiesty and independently minded.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 07:30 AM
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reply to post by PsykoOps
 


Let me paint a picture for you.
Where I used to work, all the little bakers and butchers etc were replaced by halal shops, sari shops etc. Mosques appeared on every other street. There were calls to prayer and religious processions took over the main road some Fridays. There were frequent fireworks celebrating family events.
The pavements/sidewalks outside shops were full of sacks of this and sacks of that because the culture is to buy in bulk. Sunday seemed to be the most popular shopping day and customers couldn't give a damn where they parked. In fact driving rules were generally ignored and the police made no attempt to enforce them.
Practices were different too. The gardens became rubbish strewn, some even used to chuck out used diapers. The pattern of crime changed too and the area became known for drug dealing. In fact the local 'Mr Big' was well known to have made his money through drugs. His car dealership should have been renamed 'Dodgy Motors'

Now it starts with a small neighbourhood and it gradually expands till it takes over a whole city. There is no attempt at integration. Quite the opposite. An Asian colleague of mine explained to me how Asian property buying rings work. Basically the purpose is to get the whites out and keep them out.
If you were airlifted into one of these areas blindfolded and then had the blindfold removed, you might think you were in Pakistan. Different dress, sights, sounds... You would certainly feel alienated if you were white.
A friend who understands Urdu and Punjabi tells me that some shop assistants swear at him under their breath while serving him with a smile because they don't realise he speaks the language. Racism is not a one way street.
Now it wasn't all bad. There were individual acts of kindness towards my elderly scheme tenants. And in some respects there was less trouble than in the deprived 'white area' a couple of miles away.
But what I am trying to show is how the whole feel of a place is altered. Now imagine this applied to a whole city.
Our housing scheme had a smattering of Italian and Polish tenants who had immigrated to the UK after the war. Ironically it was them who got the most upset over this whole-scale take over.




[edit on 8-1-2010 by unicorn1]



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 07:35 AM
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Completely ridiculous!
France have a new fashion police it seems. Instead of this knee jerk response that strips away peoples rights why not actually try and solve the problem in muslim communities? It is true that many muslim girls and woman are forced by family/communities to wear burkas and this should be addressed. But a great many more are very happy to do so. Heavy handed and inappropriate approach to the problem imo.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 07:42 AM
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Here's an older article with an interesting angle:


A Canadian Muslim group is calling on Ottawa to ban the wearing of the burka in public, saying the argument that the right to wear it is protected by the Charter’s guarantee of freedom of religion is false.

“The burka has absolutely no place in Canada,” said Farzana Hassan, of the Muslim Canadian Congress. “In Canada we recognize the equality of men and women. We want to recognize gender equality as an absolute. The burka marginalizes women.”


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Source

Interesting take, considering it is being spoken by a Muslim. I found the following from the article, much more interesting though.


“The Koran exhorts Muslims toward modesty, which can be expressed in a number of different ways and it doesn’t have to be that you have to cover your face or you have to wear a virtual tent wherever you go. This is not a requirement of Islam or the Koran. We are saying this practice has become a political issue promoted by extremists and to counter this trend we are asking for a ban on the burka.


I'm still unclear as to whether it is actually a religious or cultural issue and whether or not it is compulsory in Muslim states, and not just by the extreme right wing elements within these governments.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 07:49 AM
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Originally posted by Kailassa
I'm all for multiculturalism, and I don't care if people wear burkas or run around naked.
The people I know in Australia who would like an anti-burka law are not Aussies trying to deprive women of their right to choose, they are Muslim women who want to live as Muslims here without their menfolk being able to force them to cover up.

Howard, who I always despised, has been bagged here for his speech to Muslims. However many women in Australia were glad to hear it, as they were sick of being leered at, groped and treated as sluts by the Muslim males here. We have had Muslim clerics here preaching that Australian women in normal summer clothes are "meat left out for dogs," just asking to be raped. And many terrible rapes have been carried out here by Muslims who have proceeded to accuse the women in court of deserving it.

I can no longer catch a taxi as most taxis in this area, (Bayswater,) are driven by Muslim men. They treat you like crap from the moment they see you are travelling alone, delighting in trying to frighten you. One tried to force himself on me, pushing his way into the back seat, grabbed my handbag and drove me down to Dandenong with the doors set so I couldn't open them. He told me to get out in the middle of the intersection and threw my bag out into the traffic when I wouldn't.

Dandenong was about 40k from where I was wanting to go.

I rang the taxi company and complained, and they said if I made the complaint official they'd prosecute me for not paying my fare. I contacted the ombudsman and he said I could do nothing, as it was my word against the driver's. - Well of course it was, those cowards are not going to go that far in front of witnesses. Sadly that was not the first or last time I had Muslim drivers try to make me have sex.

BTW, I'm in my 50s and dress like a lady, not like a slut, so god knows how skimpily dressed young women are being treated.

This is the background of women wearing the burka. On the one hand they are pressured by their men into wearing it because these men believe women are sluts if they don't. On the other hand the women are indoctrinated into believing any show of skin is shameful, and that it's always a woman's fault if a man rapes her or treats her badly.

One of the saddest things I've seen is a lovely Muslim boy, caring and intelligent, grow up to be a violent leering brute like his father. That has finally convinced me. We should not let Muslim men emigrate here at all. They don't come here looking to freely practice their beliefs. They come here looking to impose their way of thinking on the rest of the world, treating us with hatred and contempt, and feeling justified in raping and abusing any woman who, by their standards, is uncovered.

Things were not always like that with Muslims here. I knew some 30 years back, who had lives here 20 years already, who were content to mind their own business and just be like any other migrant family with their own beliefs. Actually I worked with them for a few years in a home business. I was the only non-Muslim there, and really enjoyed the warm-hearted family environment.

Multiculturalism means different cultures living side by side, in harmony. The Muslim men coming out here now are not interested in that, they want to impose their ways onto us.

On the other hand most of the women do want to integrate and make friends with all types of Australians, but if their men can force the burka on them they don't have much chance to.


There are also health issues at stake. Australia is hot enough without having to wear a thick black tent, and humans all need sun on their skin to make vitamin D. Wearing a burka means vitamin D deficiency with all the ills that go along with it.





amen to that. About the bold text.
Our law in the constitution about religious freedom has a certain part [second part like in most European/Anglosaxon countries]about exceptions of expressing freedom of religion, health is one thing a normal participation in "traffic " is another. I mean i cant walk into a shop or fuel station any public building with my bike helmet, mask or stocking on my head can i? Its not practical nor healthy nor stimulating integration and should therby be forbidden.plain and simple.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by thoughtsfull
I know a number of Egyptian and Iranian ladies that would kick the ass of any man that tried that.. of the ones I know the Egyptian ladies tend to be pretty fiesty and independently minded.

That's good to hear. (It's feisty, btw, a great word.)

Women who become strong can teach their daughters to be strong.
However it's difficult for the girls who grow up with timid, "good" mothers and are under the thumb of a reactionary Islamic father.

And, in a western society, it can have the opposite effect to what the fathers want. My daughter, brought up with a pretty free rein but well supervised, taught to be responsible and caring, and always able to talk to me, did fine. But her Muslim friend, M, who had to stay in her little bedroom alone every evening with the window nailed shut, and still unable to wear sleeveless dresses or show any leg out of shame, has had multiple pregnancies, abortions, stds and been raped.

When she could escape M had no idea of proper behaviour or keeping herself safe, and to her men were chocolate, so she behaved in a way that now she is very ashamed of. This despite being a good, caring girl at heart.

Now M is wondering if she should nail her daughter's window shut to keep her safe, or if she should take the terrifying risk of bringing her up with the freedom and trust my daughter, who she has a lot of respect for, was brought up with.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 08:25 AM
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I am against islam,BUT...I will fight for their right to observe their beliefs.The women have to wear those burkas and I don't think it is
right to fine them for wearing them!



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by Mr Headshot
Good.

It's called assimilation, something we should try over here in the states.

Keeping a national identity when you're being taken over by other cultures (intentional or not) is a hard thing to do and if you want to stay the same country, it's essential.

Also, France seems to be trying to make it well known they respect women lately; bully for them.


[edit on 8-1-2010 by Mr Headshot]



I couldn't are less about assimilation, cultural diversity is great. But Burka's a crime against women and humanity an there is no chance I ever want a child of mine, boy or girl, to see women treated like that. Would rather we were all living in a nudist camp. That is child abuse to expose your child to any form of sexism, or witness these ugly forms of suppression of women.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by mamabeth
I am against islam,BUT...I will fight for their right to observe their beliefs.The women have to wear those burkas and I don't think it is
right to fine them for wearing them!

But, mamabeth, wearing burkas is cultural, not religious.
Like female circumcision, the two have become entwined, and may Muslims believe they are a religious duty. However neither were mandated by Mohammed, neither are necessary in order to be a devoted Muslim woman.

It's like Christians I know believing it's a Christian duty to eat fish on Friday, while having no idea where that tradition actually came from.

Like circumcision, burkas are sometimes being used by Muslim communities in the west as a tool to suppress their womenfolk. This is not okay in our society where women have equal rights.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by Kailassa

Originally posted by thoughtsfull
I know a number of Egyptian and Iranian ladies that would kick the ass of any man that tried that.. of the ones I know the Egyptian ladies tend to be pretty fiesty and independently minded.

That's good to hear. (It's feisty, btw, a great word.)

Women who become strong can teach their daughters to be strong.
However it's difficult for the girls who grow up with timid, "good" mothers and are under the thumb of a reactionary Islamic father.

And, in a western society, it can have the opposite effect to what the fathers want. My daughter, brought up with a pretty free rein but well supervised, taught to be responsible and caring, and always able to talk to me, did fine. But her Muslim friend, M, who had to stay in her little bedroom alone every evening with the window nailed shut, and still unable to wear sleeveless dresses or show any leg out of shame, has had multiple pregnancies, abortions, stds and been raped.

When she could escape M had no idea of proper behaviour or keeping herself safe, and to her men were chocolate, so she behaved in a way that now she is very ashamed of. This despite being a good, caring girl at heart.

Now M is wondering if she should nail her daughter's window shut to keep her safe, or if she should take the terrifying risk of bringing her up with the freedom and trust my daughter, who she has a lot of respect for, was brought up with.



Thanks for correcting my spelling
dyslexia has it's downside


I have to admit the Muslim men and Women I know are not the type you mention. The Muslims women I know are generally very respectful, smartly dressed and individualists, and the Muslim men I know like them that way.. the ones I've know who don't have generally moved elsewhere (am generalising now)

I guess that is partly due to the nature of this area and the people it attracts



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 08:53 AM
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reply to post by Unity_99
 


The problem is,these women HAVE to wear those burkas.You will have to
explain to your children why these women are treated the way they are.
Muslim women,who don't dress or behave, the way their faith dictates,
could be killed.
Would you want a muslim woman to face a possible death sentence,just
so your children aren't exposed to their dress or treatment?



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 08:58 AM
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For those who advocate this let me ask you, should prostitution be legal or illegal?

People are sayign women are being oppressed by the wearing of burq'as.

Well, also women are beaten, gang-raped and slapped accross the face hourly as prostitutes.

So...... if you advocate this then you also think prostitution should be illegal too right?



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 09:00 AM
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reply to post by Kailassa
 


The books,articles and videos I have seen and read,strongly state that
these women have to wear the burkas.If you have anything that refutes
what I have posted,then add it to the thread.
I would suggest watching the documentary...Obsession,radical islams war
against the west,it is a real eye opener!



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 09:14 AM
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Originally posted by serbsta

Women who wear burkas on the street in France face fines of £700



www.dailymail.co.uk...
(visit the link for the full news article)


Women who wear Islamic veils in public in France face a £700 fine under strict new laws being proposed. The amount could be doubled for Muslim men who force female members of their family to cover their faces.


[edit on 8/1/2010 by serbsta]



It's needed... Go back to afghanistan if you want to wear your burka.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 09:17 AM
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I applaud France for trying to keep their nations values and principles intact, without having foreigners trying to increase their numbers in order to influence those values.

Anybody that leaves their nation of birth because oppression and looking for a better life should assimilate the traditions and values of the nation the seek as their new home.

No doubt about that.

Plain and simple.



posted on Jan, 8 2010 @ 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Anybody that leaves their nation of birth because oppression and looking for a better life should assimilate the traditions and values of the nation the seek as their new home.


If people did do that how much corporatism would be in the united states on a social level?

this sounds like isolationism to me



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