Denial Of The Holocaust

reply to post by Gorman91


The point I have been trying to make all along; getting the message across, which as I've discovered, pisses many people off in the process.
Please refer to the OP.

reply to post by KRISKALI777


Well I explained why your point is wrong. The holocaust is brought up a lot because it is a very important piece of detail in WW2. And WW2 is more interesting then Cambodia and the rest. There were clear divisions between sides and who was fighting for what.

The reason why it's so wrong to voice questions on the holocaust is because there are limitless visual proofs to it, and the events surrounding it's occurrence are tied into the general hatred of oppressive regimes in western Europe. Asia has a history of oppressive regimes. It's almost the norm. Europe is mainly a democracy, and any attempt to limit the liberal beliefs of this democracy are demonized.

Because Hitler is tied into this demonization, and the holocaust is tied into Hitler, any support for any part of the domestic part of the chain is viewed as supporting it all.

That's why. Very simple indeed. It's no conspiracy. it's simple fact. If you question the holocaust, you are daring to go into areas of belief that simply should not be allowed.

I'm quite the liberal, but any voicing of support for what occurred in the 30 and 40s in Germany must be killed the second it begins popping up. Europe must not and cannot risk allowing one strand of the pillar of civil decay and destruction which comes from supporting such things.

I can't believe that people are arguing how many people were killed in the holocaust! Even if it was just one person it was one person too many! Men , Women and children were taken from their homes and moved like cattle to different camps without knowing what happened to one another. They were raped, starved, worked, and killed. Those that survived, lived to see their family members, friends and neighbours die in the most horrific way and not being able to stop it. And yet people are still denying this? The excuses disgust me!

Any genocide should be stopped. But we shouldn't downplay what has happened to anyone that has been through it.

reply to post by Gorman91


Any mass extermination is not good. For you or anyone else to claim that the Holocaust has any more precedent over another scenario of a different name, yet the same outcome or function, is deluded.
I honestly don't care if anyone thinks that Hitler is worse than Polpot or Stalin etc.
And it just proves that there are many people willing to jump on the Holocaust band-wagon, because they have been conditioned into what they must and must not have empathy for.
It simply shows that this fictional brainwashed precedent is hype used in psychological conditioning, for a desired effect; political autonomy whilst committing human rights abuse.
Ridicule my opinion; that OK by me! That just strenghtens my resolve.

reply to post by KRISKALI777


Words and viewpoints, but no proof.

Your petty words and viewpoints do not invalidate the faces of the dead in thousands of pictures and films.

How is it brainwashing?

Do tell?

how does it invalidate the proof in faces and body all dead and skinny? Not one fat Jew dead. Not one without a tattoo number. Not one without stress marks around their eyes.

Scientific proof to an oppressed people.

How does anything of what you say invalidate this?

sherryx.files.wordpress.com...

Where's the bountiful happy fat and well fed Jews?

www.travel-germany-tourism.com...

Can you show me one shred of evidence to prove your point?

Because the fact remains that there are thousands of survivors who said it happened to them, have the tattoos and scares to prove it.

Thousands of proud Nazis who say it happened.

Thousands of citizens who say it happened, but they were to afraid to do anything.

Thousands of soldiers.

Thousands of films

Thousands of pictures.



What's your proof to throw away all this.

What's your proof that this is all propaganda?


People bull# saying 'Oh but Germany couldn't feed them for reason X" or "oh but there was malaria there"

This does not remove the fact that people were stuffed away into separate facilities and left to die.

The black holocaust in America is no different.

The Armenian holocaust in Turkey is no different.


But the fact is that WW2 is simply more interesting than all of that. And so long people talk of the greatest war of the 20th century, the holocaust will be brought up.

It happened, we're here, there's proof. Get use to it.

[edit on 9-7-2009 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by jeasahtheseer
I thought most people on this site where open minded good people, I see a lot of PURE EVIL VILE people on here though, its disgusting.

Thats not hypocritical at all...
if you'd open your mind you would realise there is no such thing as a human of pure good or evil

reply to post by Ridhya


I think there are, but rarely. You look at Buddha, Jesus, and Gandhi, you see perfection. You look at Hitler, Stalin, and others, and you see pure evil.

[edit on 9-7-2009 by Gorman91]

reply to post by Gorman91

Words and viewpoints, but no proof.

Hello gorman!
Your arguement and veiwpoint is just as insignificant as mine, yet the difference is: you parrot the 'safe' views of written history and not your own. Do you have your own? I doubt it!
I'm sorry to let yu in on a well know fact: No documented history is objective.
You seem to take the stance that nothing else in genocidal occurance ever 'measures-up' to the suffering that took place in the Jewish Holocaust; and again we get back to objectivity.
Question: Which Jewish holocaust are we talking about; as I've heard, there have been many!
Unlike you, I don't expect that every comment that one makes on this forum should be backed-up with a gambit of quotes. I guess you would think a comment or opinion unworthy unless it is an aliteration of someone elses work; therefore: Plagiarism. Some of us do like to eventuate our own thoughts on things!
What views that you staunchly up-hold do you have any proof of?
History books? Bah
Empathy over a few photos? Bah
How do you sleep at night? You probably have a huge picture icon of Jesus above your cot, so you feel right about things
But on a more serious note: There are others that are not sucked into every word gushed, by commissioned scholars.
So if you would like to tell me that you were actually a prisoner of the Nazi's, in a 'death-camp', I may sympathise.
But that will not make me forget that: You have not been the only race/creed/religion in supposed recorded history to cop a raw deal, and wont be the last. And that there are winners/looses and those that fall by the way-side, in all wars.
You will also not make me forget how despicable and hypocritical it is to scoff at another social group (such as Cambodia), simply because you don't think they were as important; or more to the fact YOU HAD NO BRAINWASHED EMPATHY FOR THEM!!!
Hypocrites make me sick.
Get a clue, and don't bother saying you have evidence. Your evidence is what you have poorly interpreted in your armchair, in your safe home.
You have obviously not got the gist of this thread; I suggest that you should take the time to actually read it, (not in part, but whole); and then contribute to the discussion.

reply to post by KRISKALI777


Oh, so you take the creationist-like viewpoint?

Well let me welcome you to reality, it's safer here.

In reality, your words with no proof are useless.

If you cannot back up your words, then please conclude this discussion by admitting defeat.

Also, you are wrong, because there is no brain washing. I know damn well Germany got it's civilians slaughtered by the US. But that was bombing and war, not taking people out of their homes and forcing them to go to places where they knew they would die.

And yes, like it or not, but you are on a website occupied primarily by people in the western world, mainly England, Canada, and the US. SO I'm sorry to say this, but Cambodia isn't exactly in the neighborhood. It isn't exactly a "trip across the pond" to see it. So it is not that important.

Tell me, do you really think China could give a crap about the genocide Rome did? No. Because they barely had any relationship with Rome other then one small battle. China was in its place, Rome in its So they had no care for the actions of each other.

This is no different.


Until you can get solid proof, you're no more than a troll.


I shall continue to have my proof. And the luger my Grandfather took from a dead German in the camps he liberated.


Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I have, you don't

What did they do, ask Hollywood to ship 10,000 plastic bodies to film? Where's your poof? Did they round of 10,000 Civilians and kill them, where's your proof. In a world where random individuals manage to walk out of places like Area 51 with "proof" of what goes on there, do you honestly expect me to believe that not one of the 16 million US soldiers carried away proof of lies?

Stop trolling and get lost. You're just another kiddie trying to spam.

[edit on 10-7-2009 by Gorman91]

[edit on 10-7-2009 by Gorman91]

reply to post by Gorman91

Oh, so you take the creationist-like viewpoint?

Again making assumptions showing you are frustrated.

Well let me welcome you to reality, it's safer here.

Why don't you converse into a dicta-phone, and delight hearing your own drivel during play-back (you won't get any difference of opinion then!)
You see you reality is certainly not mine. I don't think and have never professed to; about anyone subject, particularly not this.
But unlike you I form my own opinions and take scholarly statistics witha large grain of salt.

If you cannot back up your words, then please conclude this discussion by admitting defeat.

I have backed my words and opinions-up during this whole thread. If I couldn't get the point across without causing explosive anger, I changed my tact, but not my opinion.
Admitt defeat? To you? LMFAO
You may roll on your back like the cringing dog, waiting to be kicked; I do not.
How smug! Do not think difference of opinion means I am defeated; you just don't get it!

SO I'm sorry to say this, but Cambodia isn't exactly in the neighborhood. It isn't exactly a "trip across the pond" to see it.

So it is not that important.

And there is the smoking gun! Not that important!????
You sir are nothing but a hypocrite; you just can't get the concept that Genocide has just as much gravity; no matter what minority it happens to.
You expect people to have heart-wrenching sorrow for the 'Jews' of WWII; yet you are happy to poo-poo others in a similar situation.
SHAME ON YOU

reply to post by KRISKALI777


Hi Kris/

Well, I agree with your original post!
I don't see anywhere in your Original post where you say that 'You deny' that the Holocaust had ever happened, so why is it that some of the people here, seem so adamant to attack you personally?
It does seem a little out of place that the Holocaust is considered to be the one thing that stands out in all of Histories catastrophes,yet it's a fact there are more horrific unimaginable tragedies that have occurred!


We have the genocide of the Armenians that no one seems to ever have heard of...
Christopher J.Bjerknes On the Armenian Genoside,Part III
and another,
Armenian Genocide Resource Centre~
more,
President Obamas Genocide Dilemma~Armenians

We also have the slaughtered Greeks,Armenians, of the Ottomon Empire

Hellenic Antidote 'The unexamined life is not worth living'
Socrates

American Chronicle~


Quotes by United States Officials~

The Treatment of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire, 1915-1916 ... Genocide Greek Genocide 1914-1923 ... Story of the slaughter of two million Greeks ...
Agia Sophia~

Many, many more of this type of ''Ethnic Cleansing''!
But nobody talks and nobody listens!
I wonder WHY?


A genocide is a genocide!
True?
No one can deny and no one HAS denied that the Holocaust ever happened!
But, it seems that people tend to focus on some things that have happened, and all the rest go on UN-noticed?
Why?
This is the question many should be asking and in doing so, not be afraid to voice an OPINION.


The Radical Press~

THE JEWISH QUESTION IN THE RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH
Gregory Benevitch
Chapter 1

If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously commiting evil deeds and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the dividing line between good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being, and who is willing to destroy his own heart?
~Alexandr Solzhenitsyn~
The Gulag Achipelago.

The Jewish question in the Orthodox Church~

Like Italy, Germany signed a concordat with the Vatican in Rome, 1933.
The Godfathers, by Chick Publications, pg. 20
Signing the concordat is Cardinal Pacelli (later to become Pope Pius XII). By 1933 he was the Vatican Secretary of State. Second from left is Franz von Papen, a sinister Nazi and devout Roman Catholic who was Hitler's ace diplomat and the Vatican's agent in helping to bring Hitler to power. Standing at the far right can be seen the little-known Vatican prelate, Montini, later to become Pope Paul VI.
Hitler with Reich Bishop Muller and Abbot Schachleiter
"The Nazi Persecution of the Churches" by J.S. Conway, Pgs. 25, 26 & 162.
Hitler with Reich Bishop Muller and Abbot Schachleiter, surrounded by party bosses; September 1934.

The Holocaust~a 20th Century Inquiry



“I will make them who say they are Jews but are not,
but do lie,
to come and worship before thy feet.” (Revelations 3).
Jesus Christ said...said, “Behold your house is left unto you desolate. Therefore,
you shall not see Me until you say,
Blessed is He Who cometh in the name of the Lord.” (St Matthew 23)
St Paul wrote, God has broken down the middle wall of partition between Jews and Gentiles to make in Himself one new man,
so making peace. (Ephesians 2)
So, when shall we see Peace?

A final Warning~History of the New World Order~back in print after 10 years.


ICXC NIKA
helen

For those that believe in the official numbers of the holocaust, take a good look at who helped it. IBM helped create the human trafficking mechanism, coca-cola sponsored the nazis, America's dynasties (the bushes, the rockefellers, etc) also played its part in funding hitler while giving a deaf ear to the atrocities being committed. To simply cry against the holocaust while ignoring those who played a part in it is simply hypocritical.

I also find it hypocritical that we all cry against the "jewish holocaust" but give a blind eye when the israelis commit their own holocaust on the palestinians. Apparently, it's okay if the Israelis do it.


It's all a disgusting joke, like Christmas or memorials to 911. It's one big circle jerk of fake emotions for the weak-minded. Christmas has become more business than about Christ. 911 is more about killing than justice.


I don't think we've learned anything from the atrocities committed. The Bush family still run America. American corporations still commit eugenics. Israelis still commit their war crimes. All those crying and meme-isms about the "jewish holocaust" are simply a pathetic victimization to satiate their egos. "Oh, look at us, we're victims of a holocaust, now give us favors and some money, and if you don't, you're an anti-semite. Woe is us!" Get real.

reply to post by Archon_Adept


Hi Achon,
pinch me am I dreaming?
You just spoke volumes with one crushing post!


And now; what say the champions of re-written history???

I can't believe the life of this thread!

The Jews are going to have a lot of trouble in the future with the internet spreading information around to everybody. They simply cannot keep up this charade for much longer.

I mean who yells about stuff so much?

What is it now? You don't believe I have a glass of water next to my keyboard?!! You must be an anti-glass-of-waterist!!!!

Stop talking about my glass of water next to my keyboard!!!!!!

Do NOT even discuss my glass of water next to my keyboard.

Do NOT make a t-shirt with a picture of my glass of water next to my keyboard and wear it to your school.

Do NOT deny my glass of water next to my keyboard!!!!!

reply to post by helen670


Hi helen,
thanks for being able to read a thought provoking OP, and your ability to discuss it without accusational rhetoric; but logical integrity.
As I have maintained all along; this thread has never, an was never inteneded as a personal denial of the WWII Holocaust.
It was simply to raise the question of: Why is there so much political and empathetically gained mileage, by the Jewish community, over the holocaust; when the fact is, they are not the only minority to face the attempt of Genocide throughout history.
And furthermore; if there were no attempt at gaining political mileage;
Why then does the Jewish community use the victimization of the Holocaust as proved autonomy; exaggerate the figures of the WWII holocaust; then commit Human rights abuse of their own doing (via the state of Israel)??? They then expect to get away with no questions asked?
Please tell me someone!!!! without BS.

I saw this in somebody's signature here on ATS...

"The louder the opposition protests, the more I know I am on the right track"
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." - Arthur Schopenhauer


That, in a nutshell, explains what I think about this topic. The people who are trying to hide their machinations are the ones that claim to be offended. Eventually, with the internet, we will get to stage 3.

reply to post by KRISKALI777


No. But the creationist uses viewpoints as proof. You are too. There's no assumptions here. You have no proof. You use your viewpoint to back yourself up. You ask a question, I answer it, and you deny it to be true, despite the proof.

There's no assumption. The logic flow is the same.


And to the other one, I mentioned the Armenian holocaust. But again, no one in Europe greatly cares about turkey.

You are all forgetting to differentiate. You are asking why the holocaust, a European event, is so greatly discussed and important to people who talk... about European-US related stuff.

This SHOULD be common sense.

If we were on a Chinese board and people discussed Tibet, it would be extensive and ongoing.

If we were on a South American board and discussing the Church's role in creating dictators, then it would be long and extensive.

But both of the above would not produce a long sustained discussion on a board where most people have no relation to the subject.


So again, the reason why it is so important here is because you are on a board where most people are European or American, and most have direct relationship to the events.

You would not see a very lengthy discussion of the Holocaust on a forum occupied mainly by Mongolians or Japanese.



I'm sorry, but when you back your ideas up with your viewpoints, it is not proof. It is just words.


I see plenty of things that spread now a days on these boards that have virtually no backing.



This ignorance must end.


The most recent examples of your kind of nonsensical, lack of evidence proof would be here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...


You may read the article and believe it, but a quick back track shows that the article is, in fact, a lie.



This must end. And I intend to end it continually. I've yet to see evidence for you to prove me wrong, and until then I shall continue to point out your logical fallacies.

[edit on 11-7-2009 by Gorman91]

[edit on 11-7-2009 by Gorman91]

reply to post by Gorman91

So What!!
I don't care wether its a discussion about the 'Calathumpian' Holocaust.
One example of genocide does not have precedent over another; no matter who makes the most noise.
Wether you don't care about a certain minority is your decision. Everyone that holds different views are not wrong simply because they are different to yours.

reply to post by KRISKALI777


I have not ever seen a thread on this board ever started by a jew or a "Zionist" to complain about the lack of sympathy given to the holicaust. In fact, the only holocaust threads I ever see on ATS are those started by holocaust deniers, and revisonists.

Maybe you need to let it go and think about something else. I don't think anyone has ever denied the suffering of the Cambodians, and I don't see what one thing has to do with the other.

You clearly hate Jews and mask your bigatry with this self serving exercise. You need to get over it. The holocaust happened, millions of Jews died, it wasn't merely a result of war, but the systematic targeting of a distinct group even before the war started.

Adolf Hitler wrote about his intentions to exterminate Jews before he was appointed chancler in Mein Kampf.

Take your own advice and put the holocaust behind you.

reply to post by KRISKALI777


I do not.

Who is assuming now?

All holocausts are evils orchestrated by moraless men of war.

What you are simply not doing is differentiating.

Just because Mongolians don't viciously debate the genocide of the US civil war doesn't mean the see it as unimportant

Just because Mexicans don't have week long debates on Apartheid in S Africa doesn't mean they don't care.

What it simply does mean is that it is irrelevant to the locals. A tribal man in Africa doesn't usually contemplate why Stalin went to war with Japan. A Peruvian farmer doesn't usually wonder why Australia fought the Turks in WW1.

It is all relevant.

You continually fail to differentiate. The fact remains you are not on a Cambodian board, nor are you on an Armenian one. You are on a US-European one. Most of us do care about the genocide of people, but we are not involved, so we don't put it on a pillar.


This

4rwws.blogspot.com...

Equals this

upload.wikimedia.org...


But in terms of how much I'm interested, the Jewish holocaust is far higher because I have physical items from it and first hand tales from relatives. I do not for the Armenian one. So I do not connect to it as much.

In my mind, they are equal in evil. But in my mind, they are not equal in relevance and importance to me.


So again, that answers your question.

And as the above mentioned, the only topics on the holocaust I see are ones trying to question and/or disprove it.

Where's the constant bombardment of it?

Remember when I said so long WW2 is brought up, the holocaust will be brought up?

Guess what.

You're helping create the problem you claim exists.

if you don't want to be bombarded by it, then do not talk about it, move on, and it will no longer be talked about, as you will no longer bring it up.

Welcome to reality, it's safer here.




[edit on 11-7-2009 by Gorman91]