The people of my country(Germany) already admitted that we committed these crimes. And most of us are really still shocked that these crimes were possible. Nothing for the rest of the world to deny. That is like Germany denying Hiroshima and Nagasaki happened.
But after all it is not "only" about Germans killing Jews, it is about people killing minorities on a horrible large scale in a disgusting brutal way.
Instead of waisting your time denying things your country is not guilty of make sure it doesn`t happen to your country. Keep in mind that you could easily belong to the next minority identified as the biggest enemy.

[edit on 30-6-2009 by derpif]

The people of my country(Germany) already admitted that we committed these crimes.

During which WW?

Originally posted by Dermo
I honestly cant see this thread lasting too long, or it going too long without you getting a lot of abuse

I also come from a country that suffered centuries of religious cleansing in order to wipe out Catholicism. The figures add anywhere up to 3.5 million depending on how you view certain incidents.

[edit on 27/6/09 by Dermo]

Yeah, my ancestors were in the Potato Famine ... I've heard that was an intentional holocaust of sorts by the English.

Originally posted by KRISKALI777
Hi ATSers,
whilst travelling to Cambodia last year, I was confronted with the realities of a nation that had been to Hell and yet, somehow managed to bounce back.
Pol Pot and his Khmer Rouge had managed to exterminate much of Cambodia's inhabitants under the guise of revolution.
Mass Extermination/Graves. Atrocities. Dislocation and elimination of families. Torture.
The Camdodians are rather relunctant to talk about these things (apart from tour guides). the country is bustling and its occupants are polite, proud and admirable.
They have all the evidence needed to convince one of these past attrocities.
They have no laws for punishment of those whom still respect or indeed follow PolPot.

Camodia happened to Cambodia. They were all in it together. No one group or groups were specifically identified and had their civil rights removed, everyone did. This is an important distinction.

Originally posted by KRISKALI777
Not like Hitler.
Any mention of Hitler in a favorable light can bring a barrage of insult, insecurity and accusation of Anti-semitism.

Not true. I have been, on these boards accused of being, or words to the effect, a Hitler sympathiser, but never an anti-semite. I often speak favourably or at least sympathetically of Hitler and other members of the Nazi heirarchy.

Originally posted by KRISKALI777
Anti-Semitism??

With the great genocide 'Apparently' commited by Nazi's, why are there so many, if indeed not millions of Jewish peoples crying in the world every day.
Does not genocide mean systematic destruction; and if not fully accomplished wouldn't that infact be 'Attempted Genocide'- if we can even call it that.

Are you criticising the Nazis for being ineffective? Genocide is one word that is used to describe those events, it is not the only word. Simply put, you make a ridiculous point.

There is much misunderstanding about what does and does not constitute the 'holocaust' most of it, these days, derived from those who use the internet as an exclusive source, that and the 'occasional Jew' that you work with. Many, many, many academic studies have investigated and extrapolated on the 'traditional' and out-dated view of the holocaust and of the atrocities committed throughout the period spanning the two wars. Much of it is related and paints a much wider picture than that which is widely perceived.

Due to this gap in knowledge, the mass denial propagandists, are able to gain sympathy by playing to the lowest common denominator.

No one has been imprisoned for investigating the details of the holocaust. Hundreds of studies have been conducted, countless books. No one imprisoned. Zundel and his ilk have been imprisoned because they make unfounded allegations. They defame the holocaust. You can argue that an event should not be accorded the same rights as you, the individual, human being, and it should not be able to defend it's existence in a court of law, just as you are able to. I agree, but that is how the law stands. No one gets imprisoned for questioning whatever it is you think is 'The Holocaust'. No one whatsoever. They get imprisoned for, usually repeatedly, disseminating offensive literature which has absolutely no academic standing, it is therefore a fabrication. A fabrication intended to incite racial hatred. That is why they have been imprisoned or in any way penalised.

Originally posted by KRISKALI777
Most of the worlds Jews are converts anyway, unless they got away from genocide en-mass!
How convenient; I think I might convert next week.

Another completely ridiculous argument. What on earth do you base your reasoning on?

Originally posted by KRISKALI777
But dont deny the Holocaust.
You may just get thrown in Gaol, or have your career all but ruined- like Mel Gibson.

Mel Gibson hasn't ruined his career by claiming the holocaust didn't happen. Mel Gibson has made shed loads of money (of which his wife is about to get half) and can say just about what the frig he likes. Fair play to the man. I don't agree with him, but it's his life. Is he in prison? Did he get into trouble for saying the holocaust didn't happen or did he get into trouble for getting off his face and saying something a bit on the racist side?

Originally posted by KRISKALI777
Sickening. Learn from the Cambodians. The rest of us whom had families involved and deceased within the great wars want to move on.
Why on Earth cant the Jewish community?
Oh I forgot- empathy is your tool.

More importantly, why can't you? Where are the threads entitled 'Hey I'm Jewish, feel sorry for me, there was a holocaust'? I don't see any.

Originally posted by citizen smith

Originally posted by fritz I have the BNP's Manifesto booklet in colour.

Forgive the slght OT detour...but that has got to be the funniest freudian slip I've heard in a long while

I may be guilty of many things and may be found wanting in other things but my friend, one thing I can honestly say, is that I have never been guilty of slips.

Freudian or otherwise!

Originally posted by Studenofhistory

Borman used the Nazi defeat at Stalingrad as an excuse to begin the extermination of Jews, the second Illuminati goal. In the words of the Nuremberg prosecutor, Bormann was a "prime mover in the program of starvation, degradation, spoliation and extermination." He shielded Hitler from the grisly details, forbidding Himmler from discussing the subject with Hitler and filing Himmler's reports. (261)

Henry Makow PhD (in English Literature I believe), takes a few quotes and sources and ignores other great swathes of information to get the round peg to fit into a square hole. But that is not to say that there isn't some truth in what he says, just that you should apply a little discernment.

The truth here is that it is possible that Bormann worked for British or Soviet or some other intelligence network and that there is some, though mostly heresay, evidence to suggest that. The rest though is pretty much baloney or taken drastically out of context.

The Battle of Stalingrad took place between 17 July 1942 and 2 February 1943. The meeting at Wannsee to discuss the Final Solution to the Jewish Question took place on 20 January 1942, though the meeting had been rescheduled from October, and planning began as early as late August 1941 with orders distributed in the second week of October. When the planning for both Barbarrossa and the Final Solution was taking place Rudolf Hess held the positions of Deputy Leader and Private Secretary to Hitler that Bormann would fill when Hess flew to Scotland on 10 May 1941.

It was Churchill's policy to encourage Hitler to engage Russia in war, however, according to most accounts written by those who surrounded Hitler in those days he was not on close terms with Bormann and did not spend time with him. When Barbarrossa was launched on 22 June 1941, Hitler was soon ensconced in the Wolf's Lair in East Prussia and he handed over the running of all domestic matters to a Council of Three comprised of Bormann, Lammers and Keitel. As the removal of the Reich Jews was a domestic matter it is likely that Bormann acted on Hitler's behalf in those matters. However, he would not have done so in the occupied territories and the war zone. The mass killings and atrocities committed in Russia by the Waffen-SS and the Wehrmacht would have been reported directly to Hitler at the Wolf's Lair by those military commanders. Hitler had requested detailed reports of the Einsatzgruppen to be transmitted directly to Berlin. It can be presumed that in Hitler's absence that these would have been seen by Bormann. It is as likely though that the reports were also sent in duplicate to the Lair.

What Bormann and Himmler appear to have conspired to do is conceal the murder of the German Jews from Hitler. Up until October 1941 the Jews of Germany,though suffering as a result of the removal of their rights under law had not been forced into ghettos, most had been able to continue to live in their own homes, abliet without rights of ownership.

By spring 1941 there was an increase in complaints as to why the Jews were still there, hadn't the Nazis promised that the Jews would be removed from the Reich? Every effort was exerted to make the Jews go away, those that could afford to went, those that felt the trouble would pass stayed a little longer, those with no means to escape were stuck. No one could or would take the Jews off the Germans hands. With all means exhausted and a new war to fund, the Jews had to go. Hitler constantly procrastinated, he hated to make decisions, and he worried about the morale of the people if the Jews were 'removed'. At Wannsee most of the hour and half of the meeting was taken up discussing whether the halbejuden and mischling should be included in the deportations. This was Hitler's greatest concern. His mentor, Professor Karl Haushofer was married to a half-Jew. How would people like her feel when half of her family was deported to the East? This is what Hitler procrastinated about. It is probably that Hitler thought that the deportation were just deportations, just like most of Germany preferred to believe that, and most of the western world for that matter.

So, Hitler may not have known about Aktion Reinhard and the Death Camps, but he certainly knew about the action of the Einsatzgruppen, and he definately knew about the genocide of the Polish Slavs.

Bormann was not in a position at the time of the atrocities committed in Poland to be involved in their planning or in sheilding Hitler from those activities. He was not able to prevent Hitler from hearing reports of the activities of the Einsatzgruppen, the Waffen-SS or the Wehrmacht, all of whom participated in mass killings.

Bormann did though supply the Soviets with the German Order of battle during periods of Barbarrossa, ostensibly, as part of a funkspiel operation to find out who else was providing that information to the Soviets. The person who was doing that was a spy called 'Werther', theoretically. Louis Kilzer (pulitzer Prize winning writer no less) claims in his book, 'Hitler's Traitor', that Bormann was Werther. It is unlikely though in my opinion and Kilzer completely ignores not only the possille role of Ultra but it seems it's existence altogether. He makes no mention, which is ludicrous for a journalist of his calibre.

Lmao I can't believe there is some people in this thread who say stuff like "hitler had some good qualities" and all kinda crap. Are you people idiots? That disgusts me. What good qualities did hitler have? lol

And yes the holocaust happened, I have people in my moms side of the family who are survivors of it. And I doudt they are lieing to get peoples sympathy, most of them are like 80 years old and could care less about peoples sympathy.

I saw someone say there are only like 500 holocaust surivors still alive, thats retarded. Just in my family on my moms side there are 5 people who are holocaust survivors and all of them are alive. I'm willing to bet that each of them probably knows about 50 other people personally who are living survivors too.

You freaking idiots, the jews where NOT put into these camps for their own protection and safety. Where the hell do you guys get these ideas? The stories I've heard from people in my family sure as hell do not sound like they were put in camps for their own "safety" thats the stupidest thing I ever heard...

To you people that say this stuff are you saying my grandmother and my aunts and uncles and all of their friends and the THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS of other living survivors are lying? If you are insinuating they are lying, you people SICKEN ME. What reason would they even have to lie, they havent gained anything from this lol.

All you people who say this stuff I'm willing to bet you living a perfect little priveldged life and have had everything given to you and you probably haven't even had to go through ONE SINGLE bad thing in all of life. You people are just the same as the idiots who hate black people and say stuff like "I could live in the ghetto no problem" and idiotic things like that.

But whatever I'm sure you guys know more than people who ACTUALLY WENT THROUGH ALL THAT.

I do think some of the numbers of the people who died are "exagerated" but its pretty much IMPOSSIBLE to figure out exactly how much people died, so they make estimates.

I think what this really boils down too is most of you are conspiracy nuts and you don't like jews because you think they control the media or some crap.

And yes hitler was a hateful man and hated lots of groups of people but he did hate and target the jews the most, thats fact.

I can't believe some people in this day and age still support hitler, a lot you don't say it exactly but I can tell by the stuff you type you don't even have any problem with hitler. You same people who say this stuff complain about the new world order and police states and stuff. idiots.

If all this comes down to you guys just not liking the jews "complaining", well get the hell over it. People of EVERY RELIGION AND RACE in this world are CONSTANTLY complaining about things that happened in the past. Its not just the jews and the blacks.

The holocaust is VERY REAL and did happen.

Edit: I just can't believe some idiot said all jews were put into concentration camps for their own safety, GOD THAT IS SO STUPID! Where do you get your info ? lol I thought most people on this site where open minded good people, I see a lot of PURE EVIL VILE people on here though, its disgusting.



[edit on 4-7-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

Edit:Removed my comments

blah nevermind so much stupidity and ignorance in this thread I don't even want to comment anymore

[edit on 4-7-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

Blah nevermind again... sorry mods! Please delete this if possible... all the misinfo and ignorance in this thread is making me sick and getting me riled up. I don't even wanna get into arguments with these people though you can't argue with these "holocaust deniers", there is just no talking sense to them

They are just full of hate and arent open to hearing other peoples opionons or ideas or the FACTS about what happened.

It just boggles my mind that people can say the holocaust was a "hoax" and most these people get their information from people who WERENT EVEN ALIVE BACK THEN.

Are you people telling me that the 5 survivors in my moms side of the family are lying about what happened? For what reason? Why would they lie to their own family members? lol you people make no sense.

You guys post "proof" and that "proof" is some rediculous youtube video of some guy who wasnt even alive back then saying it didnt happen. Idiots.
[edit on 4-7-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

[edit on 4-7-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

[edit on 4-7-2009 by jeasahtheseer]