Hi ATSers,
whilst travelling to Cambodia last year, I was confronted with the realities of a nation that had been to Hell and yet, somehow managed to bounce back.
Pol Pot and his Khmer Rouge had managed to exterminate much of Cambodia's inhabitants under the guise of revolution.
Mass Extermination/Graves. Atrocities. Dislocation and elimination of families. Torture.
The Camdodians are rather relunctant to talk about these things (apart from tour guides). the country is bustling and its occupants are polite, proud and admirable.
They have all the evidence needed to convince one of these past attrocities.
They have no laws for punishment of those whom still respect or indeed follow PolPot.
Not like Hitler.
Any mention of Hitler in a favorable light can bring a barrage of insult, insecurity and accusation of Anti-semitism.

Anti-Semitism??

With the great genocide 'Apparently' commited by Nazi's, why are there so many, if indeed not millions of Jewish peoples crying in the world every day.
Does not genocide mean systematic destruction; and if not fully accomplished wouldn't that infact be 'Attempted Genocide'- if we can even call it that.

As Shakespear wrote: 'He dost pretest too much'!

Most of the worlds Jews are converts anyway, unless they got away from genocide en-mass!
Interesting how even converts claim that they are of the Semitic Race!!!???

How convenient; I think I might convert next week.

But dont deny the Holocaust.
You may just get thrown in Gaol, or have your career all but ruined- like Mel Gibson.

Sickening. Learn from the Cambodians. The rest of us whom had families involved and deceased within the great wars want to move on.
Why on Earth cant the Jewish community?
Oh I forgot- empathy is your tool.

Well, Pol Pot definitely earned his place in hell beside Hitler and co. And?
Do you call it "apparent" extermination? Apparent atrocities/dislocation and ctr? Nope, you have no problem with this even if numbers of killed by Pol Pot are not known. Even if only few (relatively to number that was killed) mass graves are found. Even if you have witness testimonies as only real prove to scale of atrocities.
But it is not OK with you once it is about Holocaust. Then - it is "apparent", empathy your weapon ,attempted??? genocide - let me tell you, if someone , God forbid, would try to kill you and only cuts off limb or two - i bet you would not let this guy be free again.
Barf!

I honestly cant see this thread lasting too long, or it going too long without you getting a lot of abuse

I also come from a country that suffered centuries of religious cleansing in order to wipe out Catholicism. The figures add anywhere up to 3.5 million depending on how you view certain incidents.

While it left a certain legacy that has almost completely died out at this stage, we never looked for any major recognition of the fact, or any retribution for the deeds and this is one of the reasons I sort of agree with what you are saying.

I don't agree with the "Attempted Genocide" thing, I think that will cause serious insult to the legacy of many.

One of the points I would like to add is that while over the past few centuries, possible hundreds of millions of people have been killed as a result of ethnic cleansing.. even during WW2, the Jewish deaths contributed to a large amount but nowhere near a majority of those that were murdered by the Nazi's.

One of the main reasons IMO for the PR campaign that exploded around the west after the holocaust was to aid in public acceptance for the creation of Israel. Since then it has completely blown past the point of all fairness in relation to freedom of expression and is IMO blatantly disrespectful to the countless others who have died in similar circumstances.. possibly even worse circumstances.

The thing is, its not the average Jewish person that created this stigma, (even though many will be the first to point the anti semitic finger.. which I also find unfair because everyone is stereotyped and subject to criticism) - It is the pro Israel 'Zionists' that have pushed this to where it is.

The deed was still absolutely horrible and shocking but I am totally critical of the use of it in order to push an agenda.. I find that disgusting.

[edit on 27/6/09 by Dermo]

there are a lot of jews that feel they need to have the unquestioning sympathy of the world in order to support the state of isreal. this may well be true.

the establishment of a jewish state in that area once the british pulled out was planed before the 1930's and the treatment of jews under the nazi regime, however, after the war was over, because of the sympathy and guilt felt after the discovery of concentration camps, support was received that otherwise wouldn't have been.

you see, hitler had originally tried to deport the jewish population, it would have been far easier, but no other country would take them. anti-semitism was rife at the time and, after the war, this hadn't really changed. a lot of politicians, and even ordinary people, still didn't like jews. the only difference was that now they felt bad, because, although they didn't like jews, they didn't think they deserved to be wiped out just like that. this sentiment was very astutely used by jews in the area of palestine, whom had never encountered nazism.

because of the fact that the jews in the third reich might have been saved had they had a place to go, these people set up a state of which any jew anywhere was a citizen. this suited the politicians on the allied side, because it solved "the jewish question" for them to. the palistinian jews, zionists, then used a combination of emotional balckmail and political goodwill and manipulation in order to gain the support required to hold this area.

most of the jews of europe had indeed been wiped out, the holocaust and holocaust denial is not important to many for any but the most cynical political reasons.

i believe that although close examination will always reveal a holocaust, the scream of anti-semite at any mention of the holocaust examination is because many people and countries would not like their part in it, which is whitewashed in official histories, to be widely understood.

I have a question? Is it immoral to say that anyone under the age of 60 did not suffer through the holocaust? I mean what is the age range?

To be a holocaust survivor today wouldn't a person of German Jewish descent have to of been Born In A Camp?

I ask all this mainly because I have seen folks promoting books about being holocaust survivors but they were in their late 50s.... And I know that math does not add up. (And yes those same folks did get exposed as frauds)

My take on the holocaust is that it probably happened, perhaps with lower numbers than claimed by the Zionist mass media. But when we investigate the source it's increasingly clear that, like 911, it was done by infiltrated elements of the establishment to further goals of population reductions and control, through war. So, it was not just a genocide, it was a psyop. And it is this psyop aspect of it that forces one of two roads to the awaken mind: Either you realise that it's a manipulative meme and just ignore it, or you realise it's a manipulative meme and go to the source of it and find out who was really behind the holocaust and who has the largest vested interest in it becoming such a relevant and contemporary discussion when, considering the recent history of the world, it's not that significant, from a numerical, statistical, point of view. And this points us to Zionism, the city of London, Financeers and, possibly at the very top satanists and/or elitist powerbrokers.

My respect to the victims of the holocaust, however many they were. However the eye at the top of the pyramid should know that a human being has two eyes per default, so it's outnumbered...

Want to talk about a genocide that matters? Talk vaccines. Talk flouride. Talk Aspartame. Talk GMO and Monsanto. Talk big oil and the military industrial complex. Talk big pharma and their catalogue of toxicity. Talk food processing and the destruction of the human diet. Why look back? Want genocide? It's all around you... and so are the usual suspects.

The Jews that died in concentration camps died because of malnourishment and diseases. There was no mass extermination.


The Holocaust is an excuse to loot Germany, scientific and financially and killing their identity like in most other globalised nations. Germany was aware that we are on the verge of the new age, Hitler started to live up to it and tried to prepare the Aryan Race to unite so they would leap all together as one into the age of Aquarius.

Your comparison with Cambodia stinks. Pol Pot wasn't trying to commit genocide on a specific race or religion, he was trying to get rid of any genetic imperfections in the gene pool. And I happen to know quite a few Cambodians and what they have told me about Cambodia is a different picture, they describe it as a nasty, dirty, third world country that is hardly flourishing like you have said, it's a place where it is common practice for someone to randomly drive up on a scooter and chop off your arm just to steal your bracelet.

I believe you have a dark soul and are speaking nonsense out of your pooper. What the Nazi's and Muslims have done and attempted to do to the Jews over the centuries and still ongoing is no little thing. Sicko.



[edit on 27-6-2009 by Sheeper]

EDIT:never mind. sorry, changed my mind about posting.

[edit on 27/6/09 by pieman]

Dude, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You've been to Cambodia, so you can speak of the Cambodian genocide...but have you ever been to Poland, Austria, or Germany and seen a concentration camp? I've been to Auschwitz, and it's a real as everything Pol Pot did to the Cambodians. I understand that there is something funny about the fact that the Jews were given Israel after it all, but do NOT blame the innocent Jewish people. This was NOT a hoax. School's definitely need to learn more about other genocides like in Rwanda, Soviet Russia, Cambodia, East Timor, and China instead of just being barraged by info about the holocaust. I'm with you 100% on other genocides needing to be brought to light, but do not think for one second that the holocaust didn't happen. I stood in the last remaining gas chamber there, and looked up to where they put in the Zyklon-B and killed tens of thousands. That is some real # right there.

I think that stifling honest debate and investigation of the Holocaust only adds to the problems. Such a horrific event should be shown, even in its most distasteful aspects, to the world, how else are we to avoid the same mistakes ? And the truth can bear the light of investigation, only lies have something to fear. The figure of six million was used after the First World War too, does this figure have ritual significance, as Holocaust means "a burnt offering" ? The figure for those murdered at Auschwitz has been changed on a plaque situated there from 4 million to 1.5 million, why ? And because of a lack of explanation, naturally people will question the official series of events. I believe Hitler was a patsy, a drug addled puppet for genuinely evil, darker figures who we will probably never know about. I believe that too many PEOPLE Jews, Christians and other faiths died as a result of this page in history, we should forget about arbitrary divisions and remember these were all human beings who died needlessly. There have been other incidences of genocide in recent history such as with Stalin in the Soviet Union ( Jews killing christians !) and China under Mao, which were in greater numbers which are not as well publicized and do not provke such revulsion, why is this ?
And why does n't the plight of the Palestinians elicit a stronger reaction in people ? The Jewish people suffer indescribable horrors and then feel entitled to inflict similar horrors onto others ? Not to mention the Jewish role in the murder of possibly a hundred million Black Africans during the slave trade ? I think this shows that an element within the Jewish community are very elitist and are effectively saying that hundres of millions of non-Jewish lives are not worth as much as six million Jews, where have we heard this before ? Babylonian Talmud anyone ?

Whilst its one matter to mourn that event as a culture. It's totally another to demand legal statute be made to have opposition to the fact an offence whilst carrying out the same treatment to another people based on their ethnicity



[edit on 27-6-2009 by citizen smith]

I think the dispute is mostly with the body count rather than with the event itself.

Oddly, census records from the period in fact show that the populations of certain ethnic groups where in fact much lower than the seven figure number used.

Oddly as well, the only source for the massive number in the death toll is by an author of a certain religious persuasion which was not backed up with any numerical proof, just a figure tossed into the wind.

Interestingly, IBM was in charge of the prisoner tracking system used during the war. Would they not have accurate figures stored somewhere? Or did they destroy them in order to hide their sales and maintenance support contracts to the regime?

Lots of questions, few answers.

Personally I'm on the fence and am neither for or against any of this. I just find it highly suspect that questioning the official line can result in a prison term.

my 2c

[edit on 27-6-2009 by warrenb]