US Torture (warning, graphic)

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


Oh and just so you know Saddam invaded Kuwait because the US and his Arab neighbors left him out to dry after egging him on to start a war with Iran and allowing Iraq to rack up huge amounts of debts that the US provide through a farm subsidy bill(Read the book Spider's Web). Very detailed account how Bush Sr, Rummy and all the good old boys secretly armed Saddam with weapons, satellite imagery, intelligence, chemical weapons and were even helping his nuclear program by getting him high tech US milling machines and all equipment necessary(and also illegal to export to Iraq). They were labelled as being used for something else of course. Britain, and Jordan were heavily involved also. They even kept quiet when he used chemical weapons.

When things started to get dicey the US cut him off after supporting him for over a decade. He retaliated by invading Kuwait who loaned him billions to arm himself on the promise that most would be forgiven if he had their back against Iran.

You might want to do a little reading about history before you use something as an example to justify your beliefs. Your country has had two faces for a long time. The truth always comes out eventually. That's the beauty of the truth.

Oh and one other thing, about the Iran-Iraq war. We are being led to believe that Iran and the Mullahs are just itching to use WMD's if given the chance to posess nuclear weapons. Iraq used chemical weapons against Iran on their soil and when using their own as a response was proposed the mullahs were against it as it was viewed as an act of barbarism and they were above that.

[edit on 25-4-2009 by DEEZNUTZ]

The worst part is, you won't see this stuff end. These things will ALWAYS go on somewhere in the world. I'm not trying to justify any of it by any means, but these things go on everywhere in the world. As long as humans disagree and have the ability to think for themselves and form their opinions, I honestly don't see this problem going away. (With the exception of some kind of Divine Intervention of course.)

Originally posted by Divinorumus
If these creeps had murdered your son or daughter in cold blood, would you still weep for these sacks of scum? Torture not only can extract information, it serves as a deterrent to those that are thinking about committing cold blooded murder in the future. Let those pictures serve as a warning to others that think they have nothing to fear or loose when they murder the innocent in the name of whatever b.s. they believe and feel justifies their acts and actions.

More pictures to be release, eh? GOOD!

[edit on 24-4-2009 by Divinorumus]

So you're 100% certain they're all murderers that deserve whatever they get?

Torture is unreliable because people will say whatever they have to to make it stop.

And your attitude is more appropriate for a 3rd world despot... not an American.

Originally posted by Seekerof
reply to post by Nammu

 

Spare me the democratic notion and value of "innocent till proven guilty" garbage, kkthx. They are not entitled to our democratic constitutional notions and values being they are not U.S. citizens. They are however entitled to International provisions and protections.

I have few questions for you though: Does a militant extremist and/or terrorist consider you innocent till proven guilty before he/she pulls their vest cord and blow themselves up or has he/she already deemed you guilty by affiliation and thus are nothing to him but an infidel? Which is more humane, those who commit waterboarding or those who cut folks heads off because one is a Jew or because one is an infidel? If your child could be saved by the use of waterboarding, would you allow its use?

Here come the 'and', 'if', or 'buts'....

Expose more pictures, please, because quite frankly, despite the flaming that will ensue, they simply will reinforce my stance on the use of waterboarding, etc. Let it serve as a warning that there are those who will nullify your existence at any expense and care nothing for your democratic notions and values. Any means necessary to prevent the loss of life is my motto and opinion. Don't like it, keep spewing.

"We hold these truths to be self evident... that all men are created equal."
Or was it "We hold these truths to be self evident... that innocent until proven guilty is Democratic garbage?" I always got those mixed up in high school civics.

If Jefferson were alive he'd throw up on your shoes and then tell you to get out of our country.

What ever happened to compassion?.

What ever happened to a republic,which was ruled by,LAWS?

Like a trial,without being held for an indefinite period of time against International Law?.

Torture is not investigation,it is someone confessing to crimes they did not commit to save their very lives,for the sake of staying alive.

A lot of you people really scare me.

A lot of you are so incredibly ignorant.

You seem to be at a loss to put yourself in the others shoes,to try to understand what it would be like to be treated the way these people were/are treated.

And then you wonder who the real terrorists are,and better yet,where they come from........

You are a young country,you need guidance,where are your parents?.

Study!.

Originally posted by heliosprime
The real torture here is reading all the garbage about something that is far, far, from the definition of torture.

When and if obamassiah captures OBL perhaps we can question him during his "time-out".......for being a bad person.......

This entire torture issue is yet another diversion while obamasatan steals more freedoms and rights.

OMG that is so true! He got rid of Habeus Corpus, illegally spied on us, only allows pre-screened party members into his public appearances, he invented "signing statements" claiming the right to ignore laws on his own whim, rounds protesters into "designated free speech zones" and... and... oh... wait... that was the last guy.

Nevermind.

reply to post by Divinorumus


Anyone will admit guilt under torture. There is no proof it extracts truth from those tortured. It sadism, pure and simple.

Originally posted by Verd_Vhett
you all wan't to see just how far the seperation is between what we do to captivives and what these islamic nuts do watch this video of Nick Burg being beheaded and tell me you wouldnt rather have water poored on your head!

Wow

That really qualifies rape as not being a torture...

I guess separation in that case would be was KY used or not

Those images where not very graphic at all. but its not like the gov't would allow the Really bad pictures of get out. Otherwise the issue of whether or not they torture would be obvious to everyone.

Originally posted by goat=man
reply to post by Divinorumus

 

Anyone will admit guilt under torture. There is no proof it extracts truth from those tortured. It sadism, pure and simple.

Haven't you heard the news lately? There is proof that it works.

Secondly, you are not trying to get a person to admit guilt, you are getting them to tell you some valuable information. We already know they are guilty. Lastly, you don't let them go after an interrogation. If the info is no good, you start over again and again until he gives you some valuable info or you believe he does not know any further info.

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by goat=man
reply to post by Divinorumus

 

Anyone will admit guilt under torture. There is no proof it extracts truth from those tortured. It sadism, pure and simple.

Haven't you heard the news lately? There is proof that it works.

Secondly, you are not trying to get a person to admit guilt, you are getting them to tell you some valuable information. We already know they are guilty. Lastly, you don't let them go after an interrogation. If the info is no good, you start over again and again until he gives you some valuable info or you believe he does not know any further info.

You "already know they're guilty."
And you start over and over until you believe he's told you everything he knows.
And you don't let them go. How long do you keep them?

The founding fathers spinning in their graves.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by jaamaan
Do you realy try to say these people are 'not" in the stress position here?
If so than i realy doubt you where ever in the army, let alone that you flew these transports.

Actually it is the Air Force that flew the C-130s, and the guards were Army. The flights were 45 mins tops, and they were/are led from a bus to the plane and strapped down for the flight, and I normally saw 20 to 30 at a time. From the plane they were led to a bus again...no scream, yelling, pushing, shoving, hitting etc at all.


BTW test it yourself...sit down on the floor with both feet out in front of you for 45 mins...

I was put in stress positions for an hour at a time during my PoW training, so ya I know what they are and that they are no fun....



[edit on 24-4-2009 by Xtrozero]

Well i seriously doubt that you know what the stress position involves.
But i will spell it out more clearly for you.

Look at the pictures posted again please and see that these people are NOT just sitting on the floor "with both feet out in front".
I think you failed to notice that their arms are tied pretty far behind them and that their backs are bended backwards so it causes a lot of
"stress" on their arms and back in that "position".
Thats what you call a stress position.

And i realy do not think that the flight from Kabul to Guantanamo bay takes only "45 mins tops".

Again, with the information you present i seriously doubt that you where ever in the army or airforce, or what ever you like to call it.

Originally posted by hiluxxulih
Whats so graphic about it ? where are the pics of those US soldiers in Iraq that had there genitals cut off and stuffed in there mouths and then slaughtered alive then beheaded ? torture to one person is not torture to another , I am sure those US soldiers that got slaughtered in Iraq would have loved to been tortured US style .

Well this is a thread about the torture the US commits.
You can start thread about the torture that other governments in the world get theirselves into.

And i am realy sure that no US soldier would like to be tortured at all by any one, that is just a silly argument.

Originally posted by Malcram
reply to post by hiluxxulih

 

Do we acquit violent criminals if they can prove that some other criminal was more violent that them? No. They are both violent criminals. Pointing at others and saying "But they are worse than us!" does nothing to excuse our crimes.

A violent criminal is a violent criminal.

Torture is torture.

Islamic extremists and the US administration are both torturers and murders. What is being done in America's name should shame and anger every American. Those who are not ashamed, but defend the use of torture, brutality and inhumanity don't deserve to call themselves Americans, because, in their fear and their rage, they have forgotten and betrayed what America is supposed to stand for.

Thank you for posting this.
I agree totaly with this.
And i think the US and the rest of the western coalition "can" be better than those typical torturing regimes.

Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
I have plenty of close friends and acquaintances who hail from the regions where these terror suspects emanate from, and you obviously, and utterly lack even the most basic of knowledge behind the culture and society which harbors such evil.

Maybe bring them on to this board.
I realy like to hear from their own mouth if they like to fight torture regimes with a torture regime.

[edit on 25-4-2009 by jaamaan]

Originally posted by WhatTheory
Umm....where is the torture?
Most of the pictures are of people who are blindfolded and tied up for transportation or just sitting on the ground.

Oh, the humanity.

The other pictures show some of the terrorists naked!

Oh, the humanity.

There are a few other pictures where you don't even know who is in the picture or who is holding them. It could be any picture from anyone.

Other pictures look like fraternity pranks.

Oh, the humanity.

Give me a break with all this torture crap!!
Real torture is actually hurting someone permanently like breaking of bones, chopping off heads, sticking bamboo under the fingernails, burning people and hanging them from bridges, etc.

This entire subject and thread is nothing but propaganda.

[edit on 4/24/2009 by WhatTheory]

Hmm i think you forgot the assaults by attack dogs.
The beaten and bleeding people.
And the man with the hood connected to some kind of electrical wires.

I did not want to post the pictures of the disfigured corpses that are availible only in large numbers.
This post is alleady graphic enough.

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by PullThePin
Anyone trying to defend torture or condone it's use is a sick, twisted #.

Nobody here is defending torture.
Some people have a different opinion of what torture actually is and waterboarding is NOT one of them. Neither are most of the pictures.

Waterboarding IS torture, maybe not in the US but in most of the rest of the world.
Dragging a body behind an armoured verhicle is torture.
Assaulting a naked man with attack dogs is torture.
The man with the hood is being tortured for sure.
Do i need to go on ?

Originally posted by Dark Jester

Originally posted by Malcram

Originally posted by Dark Jester
reply to post by PullThePin

 

Tell me now how would you get info out of terrorist??

Did you even read this comment above?

Do you know how many of the Abu Ghraib prisoners were released without charges? Do you know how many of the Guantanamo prisoners were released without charges? Many, if not most, were innocent civilians who were subjected to horrible things.

Innocents are being tortured.

Who says there innocent? Obama?

The Law in the US say's they are innocent, untill proven guilty!!

[edit on 25-4-2009 by jaamaan]

Of course,those who support torture,hide behind patriotism and claim that the ends justify the means.In the end though the people who spout all this do so in relative safety the very definition of a chicken hawk.

Originally posted by mike dangerously
Of course,those who support torture,hide behind patriotism and claim that the ends justify the means.

Well, that wouldn't be me, I'm the most unpatriotic person I know, I despise patriots, it's borderline racism, just more of that get to the back of the bus (or where we think you belong) b.s. I'm for a ONE World Order, without border and fences and all these nationalist gangs and gangsters (a.k.a. flag waving bigoted patriots), but that's an entirely different issue for another thread.

Listen, to all those that keep saying "How do you know they are guilty," all I can say is when a soldier pulls the trigger and KILLS someone on the battle field, was THAT PERSON they slaughtered tried and convicted in a court of law, found guilty, and sentenced to DEATH? Murder is a lot worse than just torturing a bad guy for a while. I'd rather have water poured over my head for a while than to be MURDERED. Those people that do that torture business might be somewhat sadistic, but they aren't murderers like your soldiers are, soldiers that also drop bombs on the heads of the innocent TOO. Murderous soldiers are a lot worst monsters than those interrogators are, they don't even give the enemy a chance to speak before slaughtering them.

Heck, about a year ago I came down with a horrible lung infection and ended up with lungs filled with a green stinky slime and spent 4 days suffocating until they operated and performed a thoracotomy operation on me, and while that was a very unpleasant experience, comparable to waterboarding (except it was constant for 4 days without relief for even a moment), it wasn't THAT bad, it wasn't nearly as bad if I had ended up DEAD instead. A migraine headache, now that's torture.

And besides, isn't torture voluntary? Confess, OR ELSE, the choice is yours to make!