So... Who's Going to Join the Zeitgeist Movement??

This illustration reminds me of Peter Josseph's "New" System;



This is what Happens when Nations adopt the ZeitGeist System;



Money or a system of credits is necessary for commerce.

If all I have is corn and no one wants to trade me... I'm screwed.

"The workplace carnage in the US is of course only the tip of the iceberg. Worldwide more than 60,000 deaths occur in the construction industry annually, about one death every ten minutes. According to official United Nations statistics, job-related accidents and illnesses claimed the lives of 2 million workers in 2005, with more that 300,000 of those deaths caused by accidents. By contrast, in three years of combat during World War II (1942-1945), the United States suffered an estimated 407,000 military deaths. Asbestos alone claims the lives of 70,000 workers throughout the world annually. Globally there are an additional 268 million non-fatal accidents that require workers to lose three days of work and 160 million new cases of job-related illnesses each year. According to the International Labor Organization job related accidents and illnesses waste 4% of the world Gross Domestic Product each year"[2] Global fatality, accident and illness data based on UN News press release, Apr. 28, 2005

I dont think you can apply the concepts of socialism and communism to this idea because they are based on the monetary system.

I view communism as a failed transitionary model because it tried to dictate how a person should think. This is fundementally different because its not about brainwashing people as some have accused us but instead about showing and developing a better example.

To label this socialist or communist just provides you with a foothold to frame the debate as us vs them, when its really them vs them, we just happen to be there minding our own business.

No one is saying that this needs to come in the way of armed revolution, no one is going to take your money, we are just going to make it obsolete.

You are Joe, you live in a small town, you have a happy life you have little complaints. You like your SUV, you like big steaks you like spending money on flashy things to show your neighbour.

One day your neighbour is driving an electric car, you say geez thats weird, I thought you liked your mustang bob? He says "Sure but this guy came by and gave me this one in exchange for the mustang, its faster, its free to run with these solar panels he gave me, and if a part ever fails they replace it free!"

Joe may still not be interested, but then one day he goes to the grocery store and notices its practically empty no one is there. He goes to his neighbour sues place and says 'sue havnt seen you at the grocer are you shopping elsewhere?' and sue replies 'well beleive it or not this group offered to deliver all the food I need, they provided me with a refrigerator that uses the menus I plan and the ingredients I require to make shopping lists and then the fresh food is automatically delivered!' 'must cost alot' 'NO ITS ABSOLUTELY FREE!'

Is Joe going to sit on his ideals and refuse free everything? Demand to slave for his share?

Again its not about conversion or even convincing, you cant convince someone to pay for something thats is free. If you can then youd make a killing on air.

The goal is simply and only to create this abundance while carefully managing the earths resources in the process.

Why keep using these old axioms to refute this idea, what is so wrong about wanting to progress? And what could possibly be wrong with wanting to raise standard of living while cherishing the symbiosis between planet and species? How can focusing on freeing man from labour be compared to the direction of labour that communism brings? Labeling something like this as communism or socialism is no different than labeleing someone a terrorist to justify your ignorance to their beleifs. And provide a foundation for unjustified hatred.

What would your ideal world look like? What do you want from it? Contribute!

[edit on 18-10-2008 by Vitorious]

reply to post by Vitorious


What do you intend you use for commerce?

Credits?

None of the ZeitGeist morons have been able to explain how their Fantasyland system will manage to function.

*They just say "You don't get it, everything will free. You've been conditioned to think you need money"

Of course, they don't offer a replacement for commerce, they just repeat
"You don't get it... Everything will be free. You have been conditioned..."

-If it wasn't so sad, I'd laugh.



[edit on 18-10-2008 by TruthTellist]

Ok then if everything is free, as in you can have all the food you want, housing, anything. What would you need money for?

What in your opinion is the vital importance of currency? What essential function does it serve that can not be replaced or not needed due to technological advancement.

Dont ask us to replace every facet of the current society, tell us why its necessary and lets talk about what parts need to stay what can be improved.

Can we not move from a philisophical discussion to a practical one? If it 'cant/wont/will never ever ever' work then we will find that out eventually.

Whats the harm in trying? Answer me that. Cause there's plenty harm in not trying.

And you can throw up that shock picture and say thats what your idea will cause. But the best part about it is that picture is a direct result of the current system. A better point I could not have made.

[edit on 18-10-2008 by Vitorious]

[edit on 18-10-2008 by Vitorious]

reply to post by Vitorious


Money has 3 main uses. First and most important it is a medium of exchange. Second it serves as a unit of account. Third use of money is as a store of wealth.

When it is printed illegally by an Unconstitutional system, money becomes fiat currency.

Fiat currency (not money) can be manipulated to the advantage of those who spend it first after it is printed.

Communism, Socialism has all been tried before. even they had to resort to a common currency in order to maintain commerce and allow their people to survive - even though shelter and food were free; the shelter was overcrowded and the food was not ever enough.

There was an old saying from the Soviet Union: "We pretend to work, they pretend to pay us"

It has been tried before. It never Works.

Have you read the United States Constitution and Bill of Rights?

Have you read the American Declaration of Independence?

There is your 'more perfect' system. Tell everyone you know.

[edit on 18-10-2008 by TruthTellist]

reply to post by TruthTellist


In a post scarcity world (think after transition)

'Money has 3 main uses.'

'First and most important it is a medium of exchange.' Exhange of what?

'Second it serves as a unit of account.'

Had to look this one up Wikipedia: A unit of account is a standard monetary unit of measurement of the market value/cost of goods, services, or assets. It is one of three well-known functions of money. It lends meaning to profits, losses, liability, or assets.

What meaning do profits, losses, liability and assets have in a post scarcity world?

'Third use of money is as a store of wealth.' Define wealth in a post-scarcity world.

We are not asking you to become a card carrying member, but could you not contribute ideas to this kind of development, reap the rewards? Why not?

What about this is similar to communism? Exept the end goal? (which I think is difficult to deny is the same logical end goal we could all agree on: abundance)

Why is this being lumped in with those ideas, why is this not a different and seperate idea?

reply to post by Vitorious


Post-Scarcity World?

Earth's Population is growing. Your theory won't work. Soon there will be 9 billion of us. There was about 2 billion people when I was born.

The communists were touting the same "post-scarcity" nonsense when I was a child.

Will your new system start killing us off? To decrease scarcity?

Scarcity will increase - Until we start enforcing our laws and regulating corporations and start Enforcing the Constitution and Constitutional Laws.

reply to post by TruthTellist


Can you regulate a shark to stop killing? No, its a killing machine.

Similarily you cannot regulate a corporation to stop creating scarcity, scarcity is its life blood.

As Jaques Fresco said now if we see someone do something we dont like we make a law about it, why not redesign the system so it cant happen?

I liked the jeans analogy I heard earlier you can only a patch a pair of jeans so long eventually you have to change the pair.

Honestly I keep asking whats wrong with thinking about this and I get no response.

You say all you are told is 'you dont get it'

But all you are saying is 'it cant be done'

When has anyone ever said that where there wasnt at least someone who said it can.

We 'couldnt' go to the moon but surprise surprise some people were wrong.

[edit on 18-10-2008 by Vitorious]

Originally posted by Vitorious
[
But all you are saying is 'it cant be done'

When has anyone ever said that where there wasnt at least someone who said it can.

Every single time your Fantasy Utopian system, has been attempted it has resulted in the deaths of millions.

I fought in a War against you people. I'd do it again.

Edit: Are you posting from a communist country? I didn't think they allowed you to visit websites like this one.

[edit on 18-10-2008 by TruthTellist]

reply to post by TruthTellist


Youd be hard pressed to wage that war. Who would be your enemy?

You mistake us for communists again. We are not telling anyone what to do or think.

Not saying you need a reason to go to war anymore but suppose you did what would be your reason in this case? What would you cite as the evil that threatens our very livlihood in front of congress?

Edit: Put a number on the deaths the current system has needlesly caused. And then lets also talk about the deaths that were caused because the current system wouldnt allow another group to think or act differently. IE santiontions and boycotts.



[edit on 18-10-2008 by Vitorious]

reply to post by Vitorious


"IE santiontions and boycotts."

Under a Strictly Constitutional System, sanctions are illegal and would not happen.

Sanctions can be considered an Act of War under Maritime Law.

The Constitution says that America is to avoid foreign entanglements.

Boycotting is a product of the free-market system. You should not be forced to purchase an inferior quality product and in the free market you can chose to visit the competition. This will encourage the competitor to maintain the quality of their products and the original store to increase the quality of their own - so as to compete.

All of this changed when the U.S congress illegally declared Corporations to have the Rights of a Person.

In your fantasy system, the Government owns all the stores and there is no competition. You get what you get and you have no choice. If you don't like it, you can be re-educated.

*Please don't come back at me with "There won't be a government" -
Just don't.

[edit on 18-10-2008 by TruthTellist]

reply to post by TruthTellist


I agree with almost everything you say in that last post. (except the last little attempt to again compare us to communism)

I'm sure we differ on our concept of what government would be. But that need not be debated now.

So tell you what, you work on getting everyone to realize that they misread the constitution and we will work on a new society.

By your post you would be cool to leave us be right? You still plan to go to war to stop us?

Cause if not then I see no problems here, let us continue to design and discuss you can flash your pictures of malnourished children on a senate reform post and focus on a path you feel has merit instead of devoting energy to telling us ours does not.

[edit on 18-10-2008 by Vitorious]

reply to post by Vitorious


You didn't answer these questions:

-Have you read the United States Constitution and Bill of Rights?

-Have you read the American Declaration of Independence?

If you did read them you wouldn't have made your last post.

I think you should read them. Twice.

Edit: You should go to China and help them improve their System.



[edit on 18-10-2008 by TruthTellist]

I am not american and no I have not read those documents. No particular reason.

I have watched many speaches by Ron Paul and as the champion of the constituion I assume he provides a comprehensive overview. I respect and apprectiate the principals of the constitution. It may be the best solution properly applied.

If you have proposals and ideas to tackle this issue on that level than please do. If you have a way I can contribute let me know. Let all of us know.

Are our goals not the same? If you are a libertarian perhaps than you beleive in my liberty to persue my ideals as long as they dont interfere with your own.

But why the active discouragement. Why can we not discuss these ideas? Why is that the only way?

You are being expansionist in your viewpoint no?

[edit on 18-10-2008 by Vitorious]

reply to post by Vitorious


"But why the active discouragement. Why can we not discuss these ideas? Why is that the only way?

You are being expansionist in your viewpoint no? "

I am discouraging you from wasting your time/life/energy on a system that has failed numerous times at the cost of over 100 million lives.

More importantly, I am informing people that the ZeitGeist system is just Communism/Socialism combined with Futurism ( to make it seem modern)

As for being Expansionist... No. I'm a Constitutionalist. But you don't know what that means. I'm not an American either.

[edit on 18-10-2008 by TruthTellist]

reply to post by TruthTellist


As they say objection noted.

I wait for more to join with ideas for progression.

Thanks for the convo I suspect we will encounter many like you. And your feedback is always welcome.

I just hope your pecimism is seen for what it is while it may serve a purpose I think optimism is much more important at this moment. I hope you havnt prevented anyone from sharing their ideas.

Best of luck.

"Thanks for the convo I suspect We will encounter many like you. And your feedback is always welcome. "

So you are indeed working for a Socialist Group.

If not - who is "We"

...The Proletariat perhaps?

I see the true core of democracy in these debates...


[edit on 18-10-2008 by ThePetrus]

[edit on 18-10-2008 by ThePetrus]

[edit on 18-10-2008 by ThePetrus]

Originally posted by TruthTellist
More importantly, I am informing people that the ZeitGeist system is just Communism/Socialism combined with Futurism ( to make it seem modern)

Thanks for informing us

As a long time passionate proponent of Utopian philosophy I am more then willing to embrace many socialist and communist principles.

Hi,

for people holding capitalism in their hearts.....see this:
video.google.com...

The movement is to outgrow things, not replace; It will rise from people (like me and many others) getting of the grid and being self-sustainable (ok, still having a job (dont be silly)) and showing to others the correct path with minimum struggle.

this is another inspiring video:
video.aol.com...

My take is getting biogas and solar, then hydroponics and molten-salt for energy storage.

Also, the work of tesla and others like stumblefield should be investigated:
www.abovetopsecret.com...'


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