Can someone name one thing an American can look up to and be proud?

reply to post by BornPatriot


Being proud in anything someone else did is pathetically pointless. The only things you can be proud of are things you have done personally. Nationalism is akin to racism. Anyone who is proud to be from their country is a fool, no matter what the country.

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by BornPatriot

 

Being proud in anything someone else did is pathetically pointless. The only things you can be proud of are things you have done personally. Nationalism is akin to racism. Anyone who is proud to be from their country is a fool, no matter what the country.

Utter nonsense! Its fine to be proud of your country and it's achievements. It only gets a bit hairy when your national pride takes over your life or provokes a reaction you are unable to control. For instance;
Go into Times Square and start chanting , "USA, USA " and within seconds you'll be surrounded by scores of other people doing likewise! Similar, go outside Buckingham Palace and start singing God Save The Queen and you'll soon be joined by hundreds of patriotic Brits shouting their lungs out.
Show an American flag in Afghanistan and it wont be long before some loon wants to burn it. And the strange thing is that these people who do this kind of thing don't realise they're doing it! They are reactionary. They have no more pride in their country, monarchy, religion than you or I, they are just following the herd. . .

Originally posted by ItsTheQuestion
While I would never suggest repealing the Second Amendment, I ask what it is about that Right that you are proud of? What does it mean to you?

To me, the 2nd Amendment (& other Rights enumerated by the Supreme Court that originally were not specifically listed in the Bill of Rights, such as the Right to Travel Freely) means that the People have the Natural Right to do any damn thing they please...Not just Americans, but all human beings.

The only restriction is one's own sense of responsibility: Meaning, as long as nobody violates the equal Rights of others, that's self responsibility: When Rights are violated, that's where "due process of Law" comes in.

That's exactly what all Natural Rights mean. In the case of the 2nd Amendment, firearms are to be used for hunting (getting food) & defense of self & property (from crime/criminals)...Even defense from the government if necessary. When you consider the 2nd Amendment a little more deeply, it can be seen that it's also the last defense for all other Rights.

The Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land, second only to the Laws of Nature as Set Forth by the Creator...Certainly something for an American to be proud of, because no other nation throughout the whole history of human civilization had ever established their government quite this way.

Originally posted by ItsTheQuestion
I have no problem with guns, per se, but to celebrate their effect on men? Have you ever been the victim of a random shooting? Have you ever shot someone? Has anyone ever pointed a gun at your head? Yeah, that does make everyone "equal." But, surely there's things about our great nation that you love more than this?

But when you consider all of the Unconstitutional restrictions on gun ownership enforced by the government, you also have to ask another question: If all of the people in the situations you described were armed right from the start, would any of them be more or less likely to have been put into the position of "victim" at all?

History shows that, the more governments restrict weapon ownership among the population, crime goes up & the government is more likely to commit massacres on the people.

There are also numerous examples in cities all across America where, when gun ownership is restricted only to the extent of personal responsibility, violent crime statistics drop...When an armed criminal has to guess whether his next "victim" is armed or not, he'll tend to have second thoughts about committing the crime at all: Because he knows that he could be facing the equal risk as his victim would of sustaining serious injury or death.

Originally posted by Zerbst
we are not our government! as much as we like to believe we have control, or at least a say, in what our government can and cannot do, WE DO NOT HAVE! i personally believe that the one power we did have, in our ability to vote, is now gone too.

As I've stated in my very first post in this thread, we still have that power...We merely need to realize that the only power government has is what power we consent to give them. That's the key...They cannot govern us without our consent, because we outnumber them millions-to-one. The problem is that most people have either forgotten (or been tricked into forgetting) the truth that the power has always originated with the people.
The Preamble in the Declaration of Independence shows us that the power resides in the People & the Preamble of the Constitution shows us that the People establish the government & the People can take command of it at any time they choose...That's the Supreme Law of the Land & it must also remain in force even after the People otherwise make the government re-conform to it.

"Can someone name one thing an American can look up to and be proud?"

Seriously. The country it self. No one from another country says they want to be a Russian,or I think I'll move to China that place looks like fun.
Not to many people setting out on inter tubes for Cuba's shores.
Last time you heard of a cargo container of desperate Canadians being smuggled in to the states?
I know Americans go and live in those places and some think they're happy there(basically because they're making money).

You have the attitude you have, because you were probably born here a child of privilege.

Ask that young man who carried the U.S. flag into the stadium in Beijing that same question. He is originally from Africa.Ask the kid who won the gold medal in wrestling whose mother is from Mexico that same question.

Stop a young person on any city street in any third world country where would they like to live someday and probably to a person they'll say the U.S.A.

What can an American look up to and be proud of? That we are still the great hope of millions of repressed people. And they too can some day hopefully come to this land and one day say, "I am an American".

50% of the worlds population have never seen or used a telephone.
That same amount has no fresh water or indoor toilets. Or electricity or a permanent shelter. Or ever will in their lifetime.

"Can someone name one thing an American can look up to and be proud?"

Do you see how stupid your question sounds now?

reply to post by dave420


I concur, Dave 420. I've always been annoyed by the phrase "Proud to be American", like when people have it on bumper stickers and stuff.

A lot of the things people seem proud about are things shared by other countries, too. And some things just seem baffling to me (proud of the USA's role in WWI? Proud of soldiers being drafted into a stupid war that shouldn't've happened at all? Why?). Proud that McDonald's is an American invention? Seriously? Proud that America has such a large (and expensive) military? How is that something to be proud about, especially when it's at the expense of so many altruistic alternatives?

And learning of the breaking conspiracy by would-be assassins to murder Obama, jeez Louise, just another thing to be ashamed of as an American.

So, can I, as an American, name one thing to look up to and be proud of about my country...something uniquely American...well, I feel no pride for it (I've had nothing to do with its creation), but I guess the genre of music called "blues" is pretty cool, although I'm not a huge fan of it.

F





[edit on 25/8/08 by Fuggle]

reply to post by dave420 AND reply to post by Fuggle


You are both correct. Hopefully it is obvious that some people do not see it the way you do. Some think positively and some negatively. Then you have categories of benevolence and malevolence.

Great thread-

It points out the ridiculous assumptions of Americans that they INVENTED free speech, human rights, freedom of religion etc. Its an absolute farce. These are ideas which have been borrowed from Europe - not invented by Americans.

To say that "coke" is a great invention is laughable - it is a scourge - and I personally can find nothing of any pride in a product ?

Your constitution and declaration of independence / bill of rights are admirable and truly were something to be proud of - this has been thoroughly destroyed as you country has utterly failed to respect these ideas beyond their own borders - worse - to trammel the worlds people in a greed fuelled stampede, they only serve now as a humiliating reminder of how dark your once proud nation has become.

There are obvious great contributions to the world in the Arena of science, and Jazz - but on the whole music and science are well and truly the domain of Europe and Asia.

reply to post by BornPatriot





The sheer cunningness of our media to trick us into thinking our opinions matter.

The American Pitbull Terrier (True, in the nineteenth century they came from England) But ever since their Americanization, they’ve evolved into masses of fast-twitch-muscle-fibers and strong teeth, and the right specimens could easily defeat the biggest UFC champ.

The ‘Doors’

The actor Christopher Walken, the movie ‘Boogie Nights’ & Marylyn Monroe

Alright, I’m running out of ideas - Bob O?

[edit on 26-8-2008 by sexysadie]

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


You didn't do it. You had NOTHING to do with what other people in your country did. How on earth can you be proud of it? Why not be proud of things other folks in different countries did? Pride in one's nation is intrinsically dangerous. I know Americans get all proud about stuff, but blind patriotism is repugnant. It serves no purpose.

We were the first to establish a government of the people, for the people and by the people...it still works...though there are bumps and hurdles we have to overcome.

We GIVE...our monies and our lives. Our brave men and women have given and continue to give their lives for our country and for the freedom of others around the world. We also give our time and money to organizations, Peace Corp, etc, that help millions around the world. We are generally the first to assist a county facing disaster with money and aid.

We are far from perfect but in general Americans give of themselves and that indeed is something to be very proud of.

reply to post by Kai Winters


Bollocks. Representative governments existed loooong before the US was even a notion. Please read some books on European history, and I'm pretty sure you'll learn something.

Every country in the western world gives money and lives to help others. In fact, the US gives the smallest amount per GDP of any developed nation. The target is 0.7% of its GDP, but the US only gives 0.14%.

So, what you are proud of is being a human being, not being an American. Your patriotism has blinded you to the fact that other countries do just as much, and sometimes a lot more, than your beloved USA.

Sorry - the truth hurts some times.

America has made some great movies.

reply to post by earthman4


And some awful ones. But unless you were personally involved in the movies, what reason do you have to be proud of them? You had nothing to do with them. If you were never born, those movies would still exist.

Be proud of your own work. Otherwise you are taking credit for the hard work of others, and using that to aggrandize yourself.

I'm not attacking you personally, just the thought that it's somehow perfectly OK to be proud of other people's work. It's like me being proud of the last sandwich you made. How on earth does that make any sense?

reply to post by dave420


As a German I can understand your point of view. Having caused a couple of world wars etc, I suppose having pride in your country would be a little hard. But dont think of the bad things, think of the good things. . .
I believe it's okay to be proud of what your country has achieved as long as you keep it in perspective.

Freedom to .....
you name it!!!

In a lot of other countries this forum would not be allowed to exist.

reply to post by dave420


Check your #'s first, as of 1Q 2008;
GDP (PPP) 2007 estimate
- Total $13.543 trillion[4] (1st)
- Per capita $43,444 (4th)
GDP (nominal) 2007 estimate
- Total $13.794 trillion[4] (1st)
- Per capita $43,594
According to the International Monetary Fund, the United States GDP of more than $13 trillion constitutes over 25.5% of the gross world product at market exchange rates and over 19% of the gross world product at purchasing power parity (PPP).
We are also one of the largest contributors to the world food bank. FYI, Saudi Arabia gives none and is one of the wealthiest countries in the world.

reply to post by sickofitall2012


That doesn't change the fact that the US has pledged to give 0.7% of its GDP, but only manages 0.14%. Absolute values has little bearing, considering each country's GDP is significantly different.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


Hint: I'm not German.

reply to post by sickofitall2012


And in even more, it would thrive, and you'd be able to swear and speak your mind, without having forum moderators warn you for calling someone out.

reply to post by BornPatriot


Well the problem is that you're going to get a lot of opinions. Everyone has their own definition of what America is and should be (which makes America what it is).

It's always easier to remember the bad things in life.

I'm a pessimist so I'm having a hard time thinking of too many good things. Just remember, there's always something good and you can choose to focus on that or let the bad things overshadow your mind.

Peace be with you
-brad

reply to post by dave420


reply to post by Mintwithahole.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hint: I'm not German.

Well, whatever you are, I think you get my drift. National pride is fine as long as it doesn't become an obsession. I have to admit though, personally, I'm more proud of my home city than I am of my country, although I still am proud of what my country has achieved.

Originally posted by BornPatriot
I mean, every thing we have done as a nation seems to turn out to be more sinister that as reported.. you name it... Operation Galdio, JFK, USS Liberty, 911, WWII, Ok City, Ruby Ridge, Waco, WTC'93, IRAQ, Afghanistan, Gulf War, Vietnam, war on drugs, NASA etc. etc...
I guess Life Is A Conspiracy, after all we are all here but none of us can tell another why, we just are.

[edit on 23-8-2008 by BornPatriot]

[edit on 23-8-2008 by BornPatriot]

NASA? NASA?


You include NASA because what?
Some peole believe NASA fakes images?

The same people who believe in holographic planes colliding with buildings, the same people who believe any shadow they see is evidence of aliens on the moon? The same people who believe in coverups because they can't fathom real life without them?

Please, it's sad enough that you are so jaded that you don't think there is anything American to be proud of.. but you add in conspircasy theories?

I am proud that you have the right to promote this slop when ever you feel like it.


Afghanistan.. WWII?
WTF??