An Attempt to Debunk Chemtrails For Good

reply to post by weedwhacker


Welcome back Weedwhacker old fruit.
I posted a link above to a site whose methods people can use to detect and observe the effect of ions on cloudcover. Thus once and for all revealing wether or not trails are water vapour(contrails) or something else (chemtrails), by studying their behaviour. Exciting isn't it?

If the "contrails" do not behave like normal water vapour based contrails we have proof that they are not normal water-based contrails.

You may need to look into the way ions hold clouds together, so I'll repost the link for you to save you scrolling up. I am just that benevolant.

Clouds and ions

Looks like this issue is going to be put-to-bed very soon.

Best Wishes.

reply to post by TrueLight


Good!! TL, I wish to acknowledge your post, without running afoul of the one-line post rules. Just to say, I am going to read with pleasure.

Thanks.

edit, every time I hit the 'submit' button, I second-guess myself....maybe a bit of compulsive behavior, since communication is paramount in a Forum such as this.

TL, I want to make cleart I will read what you linked with a very open mind.

Thanks.

[edit on 8/9/0808 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by TruthTellist


I was a member long before I was asked, and volunteered, to become an unpaid moderator on ATS.

I have been researching conspiracy related and unusual subjects for many many years.

Would my opinions have been different if I had used another name, or was not a moderator? No.

Would my posting style be different if I was using a different name, or was not a moderator? No.

Would my knowledge on aspects of the subject matter, and my desire to research it thoroughly be different if I was using a different name, or was not a moderator? No.

The only difference between me posting with the word moderator above my avatar and not, that most certainly would not have been bought to this conversation, is the shockingly crass piece of ad-hominem insult to peoples intelligence you decided to write above, and that I'm responding to here.

reply to post by neformore


So why then didn't you just post under another name?

It is a matter of perception, and how you are perceived when you invoke authority or appear to invoke authority.

Your opinions may not be influenced by your name or moderator status - however one can't help but feel that we are not on an equal playing field when you chose to post as thus.

Perhaps it is just a matter of timing - more than anything. I can't help but notice that the debate has certainly been stifled, precisely as the debunkists were starting to lose the debate. Perhaps it is just a coincidence, but this is a conspiracy site....

There were no ad hominem attacks - you made that up.

Please don't put words in my mouth. You are a moderator.

Why not just post under another name? Are you trying to invoke authority or increase your credibility or what?

No one is attacking you, we are just trying to help you. There is no need to get angry.

reply to post by neformore

Air transport movements (landings and take-offs of commercial aircraft) at UK airports grew by 6 per cent from 2004 to a total of 2.3 million.

www.caa.co.uk...

That's 6,300 per day. And does not include any direct flights from the N America to/from Europe which also fly over the UK. I daresay it's even more now.

Here in the SW Midlands I typically see up to a dozen aircraft flying over at any one time, especially early morning and evening which is the busiest time for trans-atlantic flights.

My nearest airport would be Birmingham International, about 30 miles away but based on flightpaths I think almost all the aircraft I see are heading to/from either Gatwick, Heathrow or Europe.

We don't get many military aircraft around here but those I do see tend to be flying at lower altitudes - heading to places like Fairford and Brize Norton and thus tend not to produce the persistent contrails that I see coming from commerical air traffic.

reply to post by TruthTellist


TT if you don't like the system, complain to the site owners.

Obviously Nef' cannot post under another name because it's against forum rules to have 2 identities! There is however no rule that says moderators are not allowed to express their own opinions, nor that they have to agree with TruthTellist.

Instead of resorting to constant ad hominem attacks why not try and put together a reasoned and properly supported argument? As it stands, anyone might think you don't actually have any evidence or rationale to support your views and your only reason for being here it to attack those who do.

reply to post by Essan


If only I knew how to post pictures, I'd bring in a graphic to show everyone how the NAT (North Atlantic Track) system is designed, every day. Look at a Globe and you'll see, that the over-water portions are 'anchored' at points just off the Canadian coast, and points in the UK. Thereafter, flights are routed within the European Air Traffic system, similar to the system in North America.

The NATs are shifted every day, twice a day, to take advantage of the prevailing winds. Also, depending on route, some flights over the Atlantic will be called 'Random'...just Lat/Long co-ordinates.

Compare to most Pacific Routes, where winds are generally not as strong, and the Routes are defined.....they don't shift daily. The CHOICE of a route from, say, Los Angeles to Honolulu will depend on the wind forecast, of course. AND time of day, and traffic conflicts, etc, etc, etc.....

Compare to the static routes over the Pacific....they
edit here...he he....see, I write, get interrupted, and this is the result!!!

Welcome to my brain


[edit on 8/9/0808 by weedwhacker]

"Instead of resorting to constant ad hominem attacks why not try and put together a reasoned and properly supported argument?"

Are you guys using the same slander template? Because there are two people using that same excuse to make derrogatory and demeaning remarks about myself and those who believe that the chemtrail phenomenon is real and dangerous. Not once have I made an "ad hominem" attack on anyone - else you would have posted the offending quote.

You will dismiss this argument no doubt; You will demand impossible proofs even though the truth will be self-evident. I predict scornful and derisive comments will ensue along with the prefunctory unfounded & unproven accusations that accompany them:


Chemtrails are likely a result of the NATO Aerosolized Defense Grid That was implemented in the late 1990's.

Countries who have recently joined NATO are also being subjected to this grid and are not happy about it; Bulgaria, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. As the others just before (Hungary, Poland and Czech Republic in 1999, East-Germany in 1990) are all obligated to follow certain policies and allowing the defense grid to be applied in their aerospace. The citizenry is not consulted and does not have a say in these type of operations.

Whenever a country joins NATO - you will see that their citizenry quickly becomes aware of the chemtrail phenomenon and will begin to form groups to inform others and protest the spraying. These groups often lobby politicians aswell as create websites and leaflets to inform others.

It is likely that the planes spraying the chemicals that facilitate the operation of the NATO Aerosolized Defense Grid are from other NATO countries. The planes that create chemtrails are likely not piloted by members belonging to the military of the country over which they are applying the Grid. This ensures a certain level of detachment from the crime being committed.

The operations appear to be highly classified, and pilots told their actions are benevolent - it is likely they are told they are "Saving the environment" or something to that effect. I have no doubt they would face immediate court martial if they were to leak any data pertaining to this man-made phenomenon.

here are some interesting patents that will indicate some of the military uses for chemtrails.

www.freepatentsonline.com...

-This technology is used to amplify and increase the effectiveness of this technology:

www.patentstorm.us...

-this weapons system's ability to detect and destroy an object is vastly increased with heavy metal particulate in the air, effectively converting a laser into a particle beam weapon.




"btw why do people think morgellons is connected with contrails several miles above their heads?"

Maybe it is because of the means in which the US deployed it's modified creeping nematodes.

The Americans modified a strain of nematode and sprayed them onto urban and military areas during the Vietnam war. These nematodes were engineered to eat concrete and erode infrastructure - an excellent force multiplier.

The nematodes were mixed in with Flax Seed Oil as a storage medium and food source before being sprayed onto target zones.

The altitude could be changed depending on the medium in which the nematodes were contained. This would allow them to survive prolonged exposure to UV radiation and reduce freezing of the organisms. Creeping nematodes CAN be frozen and thawed out alive.

Just imagine what the weaponised variants of these things are like three to five generations of development later.


I regard Morgellons as an actual disease.

I have encountered it only once (in practice) and it took several months for my patient to recover.

It appears to be a variation of the creeping nematodes found in southeast Asia. The Americans also modified a strain of nematode and sprayed them onto urban and military areas during the Vietnam war. These nematodes were engineered to eat concrete and erode infrastructure - an excellent force multiplier.

Fortunately, I was able to find a treatment for the variation I was witnessing. Unfortunately the treatment involved ingesting high levels of toxins commonly found in pesticides and herbicides. The side-effects resemble those of many chemotherapy regimes and are completely and totally debilitating - even more so than the disease depending on the severity of the infestation and the treatment used.

One psychological benefit to these extreme treatments is that patient begins to feel immediate relief both psychologically and psychically - I do not attribute this to the placebo effect. I attribute it to Hope being rediscovered by someone who was once not only hopeless but utterly helpless. Such positive emotions have documented healing properties, the state of mind is most important. The chemicals also have an immediate effect in the infestation.

Morgellons is a menace - but it is not yet so prevalent that it is fully recognized by the Medical or Scientific Community. I have no doubts that their ignorance will only worsen matters - especially as it has been identified in several cases to be a variation of creeping nematode - albeit genetically modified. I have no doubt the infestation that I treated was composed of organisms not indigenous to North or South America - I believe it was a variant of what was used during the Vietnam War, or related to it.

Morgellons is an enigma. I hope the US Gov responds to our Freedom of information Act requests on the subject. It is with them that the weaponized strain was created. As of 2000, It is primarily this weaponized strain that is discovered. We know this because it is FAR more resilient than the natural strain and contains more viral DNA and has bacterial colonies living within it. It is believe the bacteria produce the fibres which often protrude through the dermal layers.

High Strangeness.

Tropical Parasitic Organisms


Walter Reed - Dermatology Section

Go ahead and dismiss my opinion - call it and ad hominem attack if it makes you feel any better.


[edit on 9-8-2008 by TruthTellist]

Originally posted by TruthTellist
Why not just post under another name? Are you trying to invoke authority or increase your credibility or what?

I was a normal ATS member for 18 months before becoming a moderator. Now I'm a normal ATS member who happens to also be a moderator.

ALL ATS moderators use the same names that they had as members.

None of us ceased to be the same person we were the day before we accepted to moderate. Why should we have to change?

I don't need to invoke authority, because ATS has Terms and Conditions of Use and they ARE the authority, and I am as subject to them as anyone else is.

I also don't need to "increase my credibility" either. My posts speak for themselves and people take from them what they want to.

And your post most clearly is ad-hominem. You have admitted that, had I not been a moderator, you wouldn't have posted it or seen a need for it.

I'm sorry if you have issues and can't look beyond a badge, but thats your problem to sort out, and not mine.

This thread is entitled "An attempt to Debunk Contrails for Good". Up until having to deal with your drama bomb people were discussing it. Some people still are trying to. I intend to carry on expressing myself as I always do.

reply to post by TruthTellist


Great post you just made.

I hope it doesn't get lost among all the bickering and such.

There is also a very good link about ions and clouds in the first post of this page that I also hope isn't overlooked among all the drama.

reply to post by TruthTellist


TT....may I ask, about your comment RE: Morgellons.....you said you've encountered it ONCE while practicing. Yet, you served in Korea. Now, I can do the math....my Father served in Korea. AND I'm 51 years old.

I have yet to read your links.....but another comment caught my attention, the one about Flax Seed oil. Yes, oil is lighter than water, but not by much.

Water weighs about 7.5 pounds/gallon. Kerosene (jet fuel) is about 6.7 pounds/gallon.

See, here's the logical dilemma....IF you wish to use a medium to suspend these alleged toxins, for 'spraying', then it entails weight.

Some have surmised that bacteriolical toxins are light in weight....true. BUT how would they then be 'pumped' out into any alleged spray mechanism? There must be a liquid medium, of some sort....and that entails weight, and that is the problem.

Airplanes are not magical creations, they are machines. They can carry only so much fuel, to give a certain endurance, and then can only carry so much 'payload'....which, by this theory, would be what is 'sprayed'.

Wouldn't last long, a few thousand pounds of a liquid medium, containing whatever is imagined it contains. AND, we have people claiming there is Aluminum and Barium!!! Very heavy, comparatively, to pathogens.

A simple examiniation, a logical examination, seems to refute these notions.

People see trails going up for no reason.
Making a trail requires chemicals.
Being afraid of chemicals, people have caused all this controversy.
UFOs have been videoed spraying chemicals, that is making a trail.
Normally people see a high flying plane making a trail its fine.
They do not see UFO.

Some trails are spotty and show its just for show.

reply to post by weedwhacker


I'm 74 - really old.

"I have yet to read your links.....but another comment caught my attention, the one about Flax Seed oil. Yes, oil is lighter than water, but not by much."

Get back to me when you actually decide to read the links. I said nothing about water. You are refuting imaginary nothings. It is not about how much the plane can carry so much as about what it is carrying (and spraying). Viscosity is negligible (ie. spray-on concret), almost anythihng can be forced through an atomizer with enough pressure.

"A simple examiniation, a logical examination, seems to refute these notions."

You haven't refuted anything. Just more silly facts to divert attention from the chemtrail problem - good job.

You have just been derailing the thread and dismiss all pertinent facts, whilst giving an us abundance of your own refutations to statements never made and words never said. Wow.

Edit: How old is your father weedwacker? American?


[edit on 9-8-2008 by TruthTellist]

reply to post by TeslaandLyne


Tesla....lots of supposition, no meat.

Your last sentence. Some trails are 'spotty'....your word.

If you meant, that contrails appear to start and stop, then Bravo!! You've just seen how atmospere works!!

If you pay real close attention, you will see a jet fly overhead, and a trail appears behind, then magically disappears! Never to re-appear again, until the next jet flies by. Second Bravo, you are seeing another atmosperic phenom!!

If you are really, really good, get binoculars, watch jets fly overhead all day, and leave NO TRAILS whatsoever!! Guess what? it's because there isn't enough moisture in the air, on those days, to produce contrails.

Great! Now you understand the dynamics of contrails.....go to the head of the class.

reply to post by TruthTellist


Yes, TT....my dad died in 2004. He was 29 when I was born.

I hope I didn't insult you....I mentioned your mention of flax seed oil as a possible medium to disperse something into the air....it is oil, and thusly slightly lighter in weight than water....of course, more viscous, so not sure it would be a good medium for pumping....but in any case, it still has weight.

Everything in an airplane has weight. EVERY airplane has a maximum Take-Off weight, Max Landing weight. Bigger jets have wider variations between the two, hence the wide-bodies can dump fuel.

In the case of B737 or B757, if an emergency means an early landing, above 'MAX' landing weight, and we don't have time to burn off the fuel (as in my case when I shut down an engine, and had to land at the nearest suitable airport) then it is written up, in the logbook, as an 'Overweight Landing'. But, paperwork aside, an Emergency is an Emercency, and Captains have absolute authority in such cases.

Just so all will know....the weight of the airframe, and the fuel required for the duration of the flight far exceeds the payload! That's why they call it the "PAY"load!! LOL!

reply to post by TrueLight


We would first need to demonstrate via scientific process that the assertions made about ions and clouds are correct, before they can be used for any other purpose.

After all, using an unproven hypothesis to prove an unproven hypothesis is, well, not very logical is it, and unlikely to garner much support.

reply to post by TrueLight


OMG, TL....

Alright, I will not debunk what your linked in, because it is pseudoscience, in my opinion. THAT is MY opinion!!

If there is anything of merit, in that presentation, then I leave it to others to look into.

TL....just suppose, you came to me to learn how to fly, and I explained to you, avid aviator and enthusiast as you were, and you would hang on my every word....that the only way to start a reciprocating airplane engine was to sprinkle 'fairy dust' into the oil spout (because, if you pay attention during the preflight, we ALWAYS check the oil quantity, before EVERY take-off).

It's not much different than a spoof played on almost every naive newbie to aviation....sending him/her out for 'propwash'.

Personally, I didn't play those silly games. I believed in teaching, not spoofing, a student. BUT, I saw it happen. AND then I explained, if my student was present, why he/she shouldn't get caught in such games.

Of course, we always cut off the tie, or the shirt, of the first solo....THAT was one game I agreed with!!!

Where's 'Defcon5' when I need him NOW!!!!!!



!!!!KHAN!!!!

ok, sorry a little over the top, maybe. Defcon5 is also an ex airline employee....I was pilot, he was ramp/operations....but we speak the same language. We worked together, down in Florida....he has since moved, to an undisclosed location (I'm kidding....just trying to protect his idendity)

I'm still here, in KDCA.

(look it up).....

reply to post by TruthTellist


TT....search the Boards. How many THREADS have you see lately STARTED by a Mod??

OK, I'll wait (tapping foot).....(tapping some more)....

getting it yet??

OK...I'll admit...Board Buiness....there, you FOUND them out!!!!

Better now?

Originally posted by GoldenFleece

Just like Ozzie Weather Dewd starting threads that vociferously object to the notion that government disinformation agents even exist.

Do you have a problem with my objection to that?

Anyway this isnt the thread to talk about that, precisely why I started that thread