An Attempt to Debunk Chemtrails For Good

Originally posted by GenRadek
reply to post by Zepherian

 

And in addition to that, an explanation for what people are seeing and which they claim to be contrails has been around since before any of us were born (if any of you are nonogenarians I apologise

) - and no-one has even attempted to disprove that explanation! William of Ockham might be inclined to ask why?

Originally posted by projectvxn
silver iodide is a silver salt that helps in artificial cloud seeding. Its been happening for quite sometime now. Those are your chemtrails and yes seeding clouds is weather modification.

So why seed when there are no clouds about? This makes no sense, people arent viewing the seeding of clouds... they see perfect blue skies, unmarked planes not only flying in formations, but also making 180 degrees u-turns, creating grid-like patterns overhead, sometimes outside permitted airspace, leaving behind "Contrails" dispersing into clouds lingering about for hours creating a haze that lasts for days.

Now coming from South Africa, I know that contrails never formed there back when I was a kid... Was the air to hot/cold/humid/Dry, I dunno?. What I do know, is what I saw since the age of 4! I loved lying on the grass looking up at the clouds and planes passing overhead since the late 70's.

There are only a handfull of airports in Southern Africa, & no direct routes Over SA from South America to India or Australia, and suddenly these so called grid like contrails start popping up in the early 2000's criss-crossing the skies. But more weirdly from east to west and visa versa?

If I'm not mistaken, thats quite a few years after most reports started in the Northen hemisphere. So these same jet engines (so-called Contrail culprits) that came into use left contrails in the UK and States' skies in the 90's to arrive in South Africa and leave nothing.

But a few years later (7 yrs to be exact) these same jet engines decide South africa's skies can now also get some contrails....huh?

Now I'm not saying I believe or that I don't.... but time difference anomolies in their appearances in the 1st world and 3rd world countries skies, strikes me as peculiarly odd!! These are the same airbuses and same jet-engines after-all!!

Also the white webbing debris phenomenon only started appearing in South Africa in the early 2000's.

If there is any truth in it, it sure aint for our protection or our good. If the government can cripple us with taxes, they sure as hell will boast protecting us at a huge cost!

I, for one know:
- The skies arn't the same
- The clouds arn't the same
- That contrail definitions have conveniently evolved to explain this new phenomenon
- Even the contrail emitting planes are flying ever higher (To escape proper identification I suppose)

As for debunking "Chemtrails" for good, ....I don't think so.

My eye's don't lie.... and thats without asking an explanation on the years time difference in occurrence in africa and the rest of the globe.

That actually made me wonder, when last has anyone seen proper grid-like contrails??

If they were natural occurences, why have they recently dissappeared?

Or have the "Chemtrail" culprits caught on and decided in making them less obvious?

reply to post by corvin77


A couple of normal logical reasons for that.

1. Air travel has grown significantly in the last three decades. Which also means more aircraft flying to South Africa or over South Africa.
2. I believe it was Boeing that said it has new GE engines which are far more efficient than the older model of engines, which in turn burns fuel more thoroughly and creates more H2O in its exhaust, creating more contrails.
3. New airlines that take new routes may also be a reason.
4. Military air traffic.

files.abovetopsecret.com...[1].jpg
So here is a photo of what is actually two jet aircraft over the city of Boise.
The odd thing is that one of the jets was a very large military aircraft and the other(which did not show up on the cellphone camera photo) is a much smaller one. This was unusual because the jets were flying in a fairly close formation, the smaller one was just behind and below the larger of the two. The smaller one produced no visible exhaust signature but the large one produced a massive cloud as it passed by.
Any thought or opinions would be appreciated.
Keep in mind that I am the one that said just a few days ago that there was no such thing as chemtrails.
I cant seem to get the picture to upload HELP!!

[edit on 13-9-2008 by spookjr]

[edit on 13-9-2008 by spookjr]

reply to post by spookjr


You are seeing a "controlled study" - a test of a Lidar defense system.

This is a part of the NATO Aerosolized Defense Grid. This grid utilizes Lidar and high powered radar in order to detect and eliminate threats. HAARP is used to 'move' by attraction the heavy metal particulate that has been deployed into the atmosphere.

The dispersed particulate acts as a medium in which airborne objects are more readily detectable (even a stealth aircraft will end up coated in this radar reflective metal and thus will lose it's primary means of defense...stealth). Threats can then be more easily destroyed/disabled by the offensive capabilities inherent within the system.

As it is a defense system, and an expensive one at that, the operations occur over the areas most vulnerable to soviet attack - the ones populated by Humans and their vital industry.

It really is for our own good
Just enjoy inhaling those toxic metals and know that you are making a sacrifice for the greater good

[edit on 13-9-2008 by TruthTellist]

reply to post by TruthTellist


Do you have any proof of this? Or is this just "I heard from a guy, who heard from another guy, who heard from his cousin's half-brother, twice removed, girlfriend's father."?

Frankly, if something like this is going on, it would be common knowledge. but if its "secret" then why are you talking about it?

reply to post by GenRadek


"Frankly, if something like this is going on, it would be common knowledge"

hahaha, you are joking right?

reply to post by TruthTellist


Common knowledge in the military that is.

But then again, you cannot even explain to what extent this is going on. After all, we have asked you how many tanker aircraft would be required to do so, and how many we actually have and how can they do all this without anyone noticing? Plus you cant even explain the logistical and traffic nightmare this would cause in the air, for both the AF and the FAA trying to track everything.
Here is one for you:
Is the FAA also in on this completely? Are all radar controllers in the US and world all in on it as well?

reply to post by GenRadek


Obviously the flight controllers are, because in the event which I witnessed and tried to get info on the local personnel, while admitting two airframes were indeed in the area where the trails where laid down, did not release any details as to aircraft ID. I remind you this was in portuguese airspace with portuguese personnel, which makes me think this is, at the least, something at the NATO or UN level.

reply to post by argentus


First of all sorry for my bad English
Now that u mentioned this thing with sunset I got a bit more curious about that phenomenal.
I didn’t saw the connection with chemtrails and lack of sunsets till u brought this up
I remember a few months ago I witnessed some strange thing happened to a sun. It had no glow at all and it was still few hours till sunset. I remember that sun looked more like moon and I could look directly at it without sun glasses or anything. I mean the sun was just like some big peal ball at the sky with no glow at all. Then me and my friends noticed that all city is covered with something like fog in the sky. Of course there was no sunset at the end the sun just despaired from the sky. Guess what, today was a bright sunny day and than we got sprayed again. I was looking at the chemtrails few hours ago and the same thing is happening all over again the city is cowered with some kind of smoke in the air and sun light is completely blocked. Do I need to mention that I live in city with population less than a million so there is no way that is smog. I will call that at least a strange phenomen. Anyway conspiracy or not I m keeping my windows closed

reply to post by OzWeatherman


Exactly, why do you think that air traffic controller's jobs are one of the most stressful in the world. There is aerial spraying, but as an earlier post mentioned it is at lower altitude for weather modifications. Also there has been environmental applications at low level. There were plans to use chemical and biological weapons at low levels to actually able to apply the substances to their targeted areas. High level contrails just don't equate to chemtrails as contrails had lined the skies since world war II era during missions. Bombers lined the skies, let alone battle of Britain had lines all criss crossed during dog fights. Many who believe in chemtrails believe the put the substance in aviation fuel which isn't a logical solution because I believe it would have a chemical reaction or kill the bio agent, then afterwards it would be burnt off in the engines during the combustion within the turbines. If a semi truck driving by at 80 kilometers an hour can blow a paper down the street, imagine the jet stream blowing the mist away. It is impractical. There are many methods used for poisoning people and the most famous one throughout history has been the water supply. Concerned people aren't stupid or crazy, but just do research. I understand the times aren't the best in the world and governments do a lot of misdeeds, but those misdeeds have a cost and effect ratio that makes them sensible for the evil doer. This is just the modern era with traffic jams in the sky and modern aircraft that can fly higher and faster.

They are using "chem trails" as a way to try and make us think its used for a good purpose for blocking the harmfull rays from the sun. Independant scientest found polymer fibers, aluminun, barium, mixed pathogenes, and micro plasma. Barium is radio active and causes flu like sympoms primarily in the lower respritory track. When people hear the word "plasma" they think its a conpiracy theory. However plasma does indeed exist. Plasma is a state of matter similar to gas in which a certain portion of the particles is ionized. This opperation is in effect in efforts to support electro magnetic waves, ground-based, electromagnetic field oscillators called gyrotrons, and ionospheric heaters. Particulates make directed energy weapons work better. It has to do with "steady state" and particle density for plasma beam propagation. They spray barium powders and let it photo-ionize from the ultraviolet light of the sun. Then, they make an aluminum-plasma generated by a sudden event that imparts energy to the metal cations that are in the spray with electromagnetics from HAARP, which is, as we all know, the gyrotron system on the ground. Most of these chemicals are beeing sprayed during the night time so you dont see them. (They are protecting us from the (SUN))...Right. Chemtrails are filled with deadly pathogens, and are aimed at populations with high frequency. To the human body, the constant battle of fighting off pathogenes such as these, cause cronic debilitating diesease such as infections we no longer can fight off, asthma, lung cancer, arthritus, lymphatic cancer, liver cancer, and many, many more. Our lives are in grave danger.

no scientist has ever found anything that has been shown to be from a contrail - every so called analysis has been at ground level, or from the soil below ground level (!) and completely consistent with known natural proportions - Mt Shasta for example- they gathered SLUDGE from teh bottom of a pond and said it was from contrails!

Barium is not radioactive, and I had a barium meal a couple of decades ago without having any flu at the time! If there's barium in the atmosphere the samples will spot it - I presume you are getting some done to prove your case?

These guys are some of the best contrail debunkers ever because of their useless attempts!

I can't get this image uploaded sorry - so here's a link to it - it is a page from a 2004 report by Boeing on airliner safety that shows how many large (>60,000 lb MCTOW) jet a/c there were flying each year from 1965-2003, and how many hours and takeoffs they flew. Basically there has been a 100-fold increase over those years - 10,000% plus or minus a bit depending on how you read the graphs - I dont' have the tabulated values.



That's why there's so many more contrails now than then - 100 times as many aircraft making them!!

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Rest assured that sunsets are still happening all around hte world, and apparently are pretty because of chemtrails - eg

from chemtrailsnorthnz.wordpress.com...

"Photos Of Geo-engineering Over Kaikoura In January
Posted on 18/01/2011 by Clare Swinney
Thank-you to Rose in Kaikoura for sending the link to these photos she took over January, 2011. They show a wide range of geo-engineering-related formations – including, aerosols, ripples and the bright oranges the aerosols become as the sun sets. chemtrailsoverkaikoura.ning.com...:Album:10615"

And here And here too - from Germany I think

the government lies. look at 9/11. you cannot use government agency data to prove government innocence. of course they will tow the line and lie also. again look at warren commission, 9/11 report. people need to use their sense and their eyes to determine themselves and not be swayed. if it was a well known principal that airplane exhausts alter weather patterns and transform good days into bad, do you think the people would have accepted this. centres of populations would be no-fly areas. there is no doubt for me. i see the sh_it most every day. the government lies...get it and don't trust one word they or their cronnies offer up as proof.

btw, as i saw in another post, how do you explain two or more planes emitting trails flying in very close formation. this surely is not acceptable in the case of passenger flights. i have seen this many times

There are 3 obvious possibilities from the world of natural science that do not require a conspiracy that I would have to be part of:

1/ they are not close together - they just look like it from 5-7 miles away
2/ they have different engines that make contrails under different conditions
3/ the air has different characteristics even tho they are relatively close - clouds exist in one area but not anothe 100 feet above or below, the same can happen to contrails.

As for governments lie - yeah - and this is news how?

Here's nother idea - conspiracy theorists lie too - what's more they almsot aleways go for the "Big Lie" that they say the Govt is doing - quite ironic really.

Saying that it is proved that the UYS govt lied over 9/11 & Warren is quite revealing - the hoaxes cannot stand if people look for facts rathe than quasi-religious beliefs, and your mindset shows why