The Chemtrail Myth

reply to post by LORDMETAL


Good footage on that video. Very consistant with what others are filming outside thier own homes in all parts of the country and even the world.

I loved the narration, Classic!!!

Originally posted by jondular
I don't see a plane leaving that round skinny hoop. Several shots and no plane in any of them. Here is the main sight with movies and photos.
www.carnicom.com...

There is already a thread for those pictures.....do not bring it here, debate it on its own thread

www.the7thfire.com...






Mod Note: One Line Post – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 21-4-2008 by asala]

reply to post by dAlen


Ok, you seem to have missed the several posts about cirrostratus cloud. Its a cloud that is formed by the spreading out of cirrus clouds. Despite what you think you saw ten years ago, cirrostratus has been around since th first formation of clouds billion of years ago.

In meteorological terms, contrails are reported as cirrus clouds during surface observations, if they spread out (like many do, due to the high wind speeds aloft......ie the jetstream) they are then reported as cirrostratus

That is why it is not unusual for them to form a layer over the sky

reply to post by LORDMETAL


No, I don't work for the government. Do you?

Imagine someone in California, North of LAX, Long Beach and San Diego, South East of San Jose, San Francisco and Sacremento, with Las Vegas to the East, Pheonix and Tuscon to the South East, Hawaii away across the Pacific to the South West and the major air routes to Japan and Australia heading out over the pacific seeing contrails. Who'd have thunk it huh?

Just because the woman narrating the video seems blissfully unaware that shes sitting roughly in the middle of one of the most populated areas of the US and people actually use air travel these days is her concern, but every city I've listed above has an airport, and each of those airports handles considerable traffic, with LAX being one of the worlds busiest.

Now can someone please tell me why people living in Bakersfield wouldn't be seeing alot of air traffic? Anyone? I live in the UK and I just pulled all that information off Google maps in 5 minutes.

The video you posted proves nothing, other than people look up into the sky and assume something because they don't know any better.

reply to post by _Del_


Actually, I have nothing to fear about anything appearing in the form of these trail clouds and I should not, nay, will not, just pack up and move to yet another place where these alleged ‘chemtrails’ seem to ‘follow’ me wherever I go. I’m not kidding; for they just show up for whatever unexplainable reason. I’m sure there has to be ways to make these anomalies disappear altogether.

And quite frankly it’s getting rather annoying, just like the unending debate of whether or not ‘chemtrails’ exist to harm the climate, our health or encourage the appearances of ‘aliens’ flying around in their ‘UFO’s. Maybe we are dealing with something beyond our current understanding that mainstream science has failed to share with the general public regarding these ‘chemtrails’.

Perhaps, like so many other unaware people, I too should just go back to sleep and hope that all this conspiracy surrounding ‘chemtrails’ is all but a dream and work itself out in the end. Please wake me up when we figure out if this ‘chemtrail myth’ could come to a decided conclusion beyond all reasonable doubt.

I would really like to believe anything in the skies is merely natural formations of clouds. [Yawn].



[edit on 2008-4-21 by pikypiky]

You know what amazes me, after reading everything here, I still can not get an answer to my question (and posted it on other threads):

Why, after living in South Africa for 30 years, and been aware of chemtrails for 8 years I have NEVER EVER seen chemtrails in SA??

Yes, yes, I have heard about weather conditions, engine models, traffic volumes etc etc. Yet, I still have not got an answer from anyone. SA has a very similar weather pattern (temps etc) to Australia for example, yet never seen or heard of chemtrails in SA. I have seen pics of Chemtrails in Auz though.

I also lived in Johannesburg, and OR Tambo international is the busiest airport in Africa. I also had (now live in Canada) a 4.5" Orion telescope, and used to track planes with it and never saw anything like chemtrails. How'd I do that? Well, the orion comes with a laser dot viewer you use to calibrate it. I used to let my old man look through the scopes lense whilst I tracked planes looking through the laser dot viewer - Gave him a kick.

I loosened the axis on the scope, so I could move it freely. He then returned the favor after learning how to do it, and we often used to check out SAA as well as other airlines.

Question remains - Why no chemtrails in SA??

reply to post by TortoiseKweek



That is a good question about why they aren't seen in South Africa.

We have lots of weather experts and sky consultants here that I am sure would be willing to give a very rational explanation!


Meanwhile I wanted to share this basic observation.

[edit on 21-4-2008 by interestedalways]

reply to post by TortoiseKweek


Having a similar climate does not have any bearing in your case. The reason being is the upper air region around South Africa is a lot drier and warmer for a couple of reasons.

Planes normal crusing altitude is just over thirty thousand feet. Which in mid latitudes is just below the location of the tropopause (the barrier in which the temp stops decreasing with height and starts increasing again, as the atmopshere changes from the troposphere to the stratosphere). The tropopause also has very little mositure in it compared to the troposphere, where all clouds occur. Towards the equator the tropopause can occur as high as 60,000ft while at the poles it can be as low as 20,000ft.

So even though South Africa has a similar climate to South Australia, contrails may not develop due to planes travelling too low. What I mean is that, South Australia has a lower tropopause then South Africa, which also means that the air over South Australia is warmer. So the temperature at 30,000ft in Adelaide will be a lot colder then the temperature at 30,00ft where you are. For contrail persistance, you need a minimum temp of - 37 degrees celsius with adequate humidity. In adelaide the temp at 30,000ft may be around -40 degrees celsius while in South Africa it may only be - 30 degrees celsius.

The high tropopause is why contrails are not frequently seen in the tropics and more frequently seen over the mid latitudes places like the US

Edited for Scientific Stupidity

[edit on 21/4/2008 by OzWeatherman]

reply to post by OzWeatherman


Oz, my Man!

I fear your incredible knwoledge may continue to fall on deaf ears (or eyes...is that a valid analogy...'deaf eyes?)

Anyway, keep it up, because denying ignorance is the same as teaching....

Best, WW!!

Oz, you made some good points, but explain this:

"The tropopause also has very little mositure in it compared to the stratosphere, where all clouds occur."

I've seen clouds well below the stratosphere. So, what's the take on that?

Also, I posted a reply on this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Any comments / explanations on my observations there would be appreciated.

Thanks

Originally posted by TortoiseKweek
Oz, you made some good points, but explain this:

"The tropopause also has very little mositure in it compared to the stratosphere, where all clouds occur."

I've seen clouds well below the stratosphere. So, what's the take on that?

Also, I posted a reply on this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Any comments / explanations on my observations there would be appreciated.

Thanks

My mistake i got troposphere and stratosphere mixed up, that was incredibly stupid of me .

Hold on let me edit it

reply to post by TortoiseKweek


Dude, Tortoise....

The tropopause is where the Adiabatic Lapse Rate ends.....does not mean that clouds stop forming!

Look, Tortoise....go learn a little bit about Meteorology.

AND, Oz, sorry if I'm screwing it up, because I have only basic Meteorology knowledge compared to yours, mine is Aviation-based...I can read the Aviation Prog Charts, the High-Level and and Low-Level....heck, I see the Prog charts, and forget which is which...sometimes we look at winds, or Prognosis, or Satellite pictures.....and have to put it all together....But that's why you let loose the balloons!!

WW

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by TortoiseKweek

 

Dude, Tortoise....

The tropopause is where the Adiabatic Lapse Rate ends.....does not mean that clouds stop forming!

Look, Tortoise....go learn a little bit about Meteorology.

AND, Oz, sorry if I'm screwing it up, because I have only basic Meteorology knowledge compared to yours, mine is Aviation-based...I can read the Aviation Prog Charts, the High-Level and and Low-Level....heck, I see the Prog charts, and forget which is which...sometimes we look at winds, or Prognosis, or Satellite pictures.....and have to put it all together....But that's why you let loose the balloons!!

WW

It is very rare for clouds to form above the tropopause. The humidity is just too little. On the other hand if you are talking about nacreous and noctilucent clouds which only occur above the tropopause, then you are correct

Tortoise is correct though, I made an error. I inteneded to say 99.9 percent of clouds occur below the tropopause in the TROPOSPHERE....not stratosphere like i said. Too many big words at once

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

If you want to ignore the changes in fuel make-up, engine design, plane design, aerodynamics, etc. that have occured since you were a nipper, then yeah - why not go the whole hog and attribute these "chemtrails" to aliens or maybe Elvis :-P

Noooo... I'm not talking about "nipper" here, and fuel makeup has not changed significantly I am lead to believe, the jet engine is still basically the same and why would it affect the duration of the contrails anyway, aerodynamics are fundamentally the same... It almost seems as if you are pulling a grab bag of things out, like you're invested in shredding my observations. And your hyperbolic conclusion is clearly geared to diminish others' perceptions of what I offer.

Seriously, there's sooo much speculation, seemingly based on (innocent) ignorance, that this thread is getting out of control. As long as people can throw in their own opinions as a basis for discussion, we can't get anywhere. We won't learn anything. Our collective ignorance will still persist.

Now the only speculation I gave is WHY they might be spraying us. And yes, I do think they are. It falls well within the behavior of the Elite. It would surprise me to discover that they WEREN'T spraying.

Now this is my opinion, based on studying many aspects of the behavior of those we have in charge. I see the strong possibility of 1984 (yes, ala Orwell) heading our way. The Elite are the Inner Party. There are many Outer Party - those who see what they're doing and manage a twinge of guilt, those that don't have enough information to know what they are doing, and those that know full well what they're doing but are so scared they just keep doing what they're doing so that they and theirs will be left alone.

And then, the 60ish% of us (and really, most of the Outer Party) are the Proles.

And if these Better Than's want to be able to drag ANYONE they want to off to the Ministry of Love...then, Buster, that's the way it's headed.

Now again I meet someone who either won't let go of the idea that things are "business as usual" 'round these US of A parts, or I am seeing an agenda.

I again place my probabilities, and again I keep them to myself.

Until anyone can get decent evidence that a majority of clouds are actually formed by aircraft (and by decent I don't mean "I guess" or "I think", but actual evidence for something, then we can take this discussion further. As it is, we haven't even got past that first step yet.

Oh well!

Here's the problem... If we set the government to check on itself, that's just silly. And many of those who struggle to put together honest studies meet with misfortune.

What would you do?

Me, I'm a mere artist, sir. I have always wanted to be a scientist, though...but for the math, wherein, my downfall. I tend to see processes in a kinesthetic fashion, anyway, and it holds me in good stead.

reply to post by Amaterasu


Amaterasu,

I know you didn't respond to me directly, but I have to say....about this spraying idea.

Think about it.

I was chatting online with someone else tonight, and I think I pointed out that when you consider the immense surface area of the Earth...over 520 million square kilometres total...how in the heck can a few 'trails', only a few hundred metres long, and maybe 30 metres wide, have any effect?!?

Common sense implies that if chemicals are going to be specifically distributed, they would be distributed at a low altitude, where they can be targeted.

What kind of moron would 'spray' at altitudes near the tropopause, or in the troposphere? There is NO WAY to control those 'chemicals'....jeez, we have enough time trying to predict how a cold or warm front might move, or where a hurricane or typhoon might move!!!

Use your Frontal Lobes!!

'chemtrails' only exist because snake oil salesmen can make a 'buck' from selling the crap! It is BS, they know it, the ones who sell it....do not, I implore you, fall prey to their tactics. IT IS BS!!!

Plain and simple!

WW

Just today, 15 chemtrails over southern Victoria, Australia. And yesterday. I have lived here over 15 years and NEVER seen this. Can you explain why today I have seen over 15 of these trails? All from jets that had a red underbelly, and did fly in the exact area, then follow up again and again, causing a zig zag or cross over effect. These have formed into clouds and are still there 5 hours after, please explain that one to me.

The plenes flew from north to south towards Tasmania, all jets were huge, then after seeing the 4 planes/jets at 8:30 this morning, another plane seemed to fly between these chemtrails and not emit any its self. The wind is south east today, and these clouds are coming right back into the main population.

I know I will be telling everyone to look up today, and try to get them to figure out why all of a sudden we have had so many. Also I have notice a lot of hawks circling the sky today, again never seen more than 2 in the same day, at least 6 have been seen by me today.

There is something going on, and I'd like to know how to find out what exactly this is.

watchZEITGEISTnow

Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
The wind is south east today, and these clouds are coming right back into the main population.

Actually, our upper wind analysis today for Melbourne is suggesting that there are westerly winds blowing at the height planes are cruising. The surface winds are southerly driven by a high to south west. The uppers indicate that any spray above victoria would end up somewhere in the Tasman sea.

reply to post by Zaphod58


it was alocal airshow for family day. no refueling was needed. once again i asked why they were there and there was no knowledge on boaard of why. they did not refuel the f18's with these aircraft. please read the posts before you tear them up
i was there... you weren't
i know what i saw
i have a daughter on a carrier, and a nephew who is a fighter pilot f18 superhornets

reply to post by OzWeatherman


it was a ddg class ship with a sub. they told us it was potugese. i am not in the navy,never said i was. i was out for the day on the USS MONTEREY a cg class guided missle cruiser hull # 61 at this point i really dont care if you believe me or not. i'm telling the truth and if you dont like it ,i can't help it
i thought this was an information site, but lately all i read is that if you dont agree, you're lying. and to tell the TRUTH,its getting boring. so tear up my posts with these c5's (!?!?!?) you imagined and have a blast. i know what i saw ,and i know what i was told
and no i'm not a little kid with a reason to lie, i'm 53 and quite sane.
but do me one favor, prove they don't exist,if you know so much

didn't you allude to being a meteologist???????

[edit on 22-4-2008 by Spectre0o0]