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The Chemtrail Myth

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posted on Apr, 22 2008 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by Amaterasu
 


Amat, 'years and years' have accumulated?? No, they have not.

By that logic, years and years of clouds have 'accumulated' for thousands and thousands of years!!

Guess that's what happened to Venus, eh?

WW




posted on Apr, 22 2008 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by musselwhite
reply to post by OzWeatherman
 
www.carnicom.com... chemtrails are real and they are crimes against the global population and covered up by our gov'ment.



Or, alternatively, Cliff Carnicom is wrong and tens of thousands of meteorologists and atmospheric scientists and aviation experts are right.

Well, it's possible


But who has the motive to deceive?

Would you trust Cliff Carnicom to service your car and carry out heart surgery on your father?



posted on Apr, 22 2008 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Amaterasu
 


Amat, 'years and years' have accumulated?? No, they have not.

By that logic, years and years of clouds have 'accumulated' for thousands and thousands of years!!

Guess that's what happened to Venus, eh?

WW


Are you being deliberately dense? I don't mean any disrespect, but obviously I was not talking about the trails themselves but the content within the trails that settles - and has leached into soil, and run into ground water, and been inhaled.

And THAT is what has accumulated for years.



posted on Apr, 22 2008 @ 05:14 PM
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reply to post by Amaterasu
 


Amater.....

NOW you're catching on!

What you're referring to is what has been called 'acid rain'....and it is the pollution that is being produced by industry, here on the ground, that gets swept up into the atmosphere, and subsequently is dropped, via normal rain.

See, there is a lot more chemical pollution going on right under your nose, than is happeneing by a few hundred airplanes!!

An airplane might carry, what? 50 gallons? 100 gallons???

A typical coal-burning power plant pumps out....how much pollution, in one day? Think about it.....

See? The entire 'chemtrail' idea is a made-up 'conspiracy' to divert attention from the real polluters.....THERE is your conspiracy!! Run with that, because it has a lot more meat. And, watch your back, because these bastards can be brutal!!

ps...just think of the movie 'Silkwood'.....

[edit on 4/22/0808 by weedwhacker]



posted on Apr, 22 2008 @ 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Amaterasu
 

What you're referring to is what has been called 'acid rain'....and it is the pollution that is being produced by industry, here on the ground, that gets swept up into the atmosphere, and subsequently is dropped, via normal rain.

See, there is a lot more chemical pollution going on right under your nose, than is happeneing by a few hundred airplanes!!


Again, WW, you are making assumptions here. Sure, there is a lot of pollution going on, but that is beside the point. If the planes were carrying standard pollutants, sure. They would be a drop in the bucket (so to speak), but we don't know what's in there. Just as vinegar and hydrofluoric acid are both acids, it does not follow that one needs the same amount to accomplish the same thing.

Maybe what we are being sprayed with is...oh, how about dioxin? Believe me, a molecule here and a molecule there of dioxin would have a much mightier effect than if they were spraying, say, carbon monoxide.

And I think the numbers on those planes is more like in the thousands.


See? The entire 'chemtrail' idea is a made-up 'conspiracy' to divert attention from the real polluters.....THERE is your conspiracy!! Run with that, because it has a lot more meat. And, watch your back, because these bastards can be brutal!!

ps...just think of the movie 'Silkwood'.....


If you say so. I doubt it greatly, giving it a 3% likelihood.



posted on Apr, 22 2008 @ 08:21 PM
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reply to post by Amaterasu
 


Sorry, Amater....I stopped offline to eat dinner, and watch Ameriacan Idol

As to your idea that 'toxins' are being sprayed by airplanes....by regularly scheduled commercial jets....you are grossly mistaken!!

First of all....there is no way in HELL that the various commercial airliners could be equipped with these alleged 'spray' equipment, and no one would notice!!

Do you have any concept of the number of people that walk around an airplane, day in and day out?!?

Ground crew, including those that load/unload baggage. Fuelers, mechanics, PILOTS!!! SHEESH!! Someone would notice something out of the ordinary, they are ALL TRAINED to see normal airplanes....and are TRAINED to report what looks abnormal!!! Heck, just look out the window from the terminal, for Chrissakes!!

The idea that 'chemtrails' are sprayed from commercial passenger airplanes is total BS!

What disgusts me, and others, is that people make a living off of this nonsense....drop a hint here, or there....get the ball rolling, then write a book! Shazzam!! Money in the bank, based on fake 'science', propped up by a few 'shills' who come around to keep the lie alive.....sells more books!!!

Brilliant!!

(brilliant, if you want to sell books based on a lie, to profit from that same lie.....because, as Barnum T Bailey said, "There's a Sucker Born every Minute!").

'nuf said

WW



posted on Apr, 23 2008 @ 01:33 AM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


I am less inclined to think that ALL "passenger" planes in the sky are civilian than many, I suppose. I notice that some "passenger" planes have contrails like I remember, and then... Some don't.

I'm willing to say you're right. But not because I don't think they're messing about with the air.

Just because I can see neither of us is going to agree, and frankly, with neither side having ALL the military data, black ops or otherwise, we can only conclude at stalemate, and if that's where it's going, I'd just as soon agree now, just to move on.

I mean, it either is or isn't happening, and until our government/military is fully transparent, thereby allowing eternal vigilance, the price, I believe of freedom, it simply will take its course, one way or the other no matter how long we pinged and ponged on the subject.

So hey, dude. You're right.



posted on Apr, 23 2008 @ 01:56 AM
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Originally posted by Amaterasu
Just because I can see neither of us is going to agree, and frankly, with neither side having ALL the military data, black ops or otherwise, we can only conclude at stalemate


Its not a stalemate at all. How can it be a stalemate when the meteorologists and aviation enthusiasts have presented such a compelling case that these things are a myth, and all the chemtrailers can come up with is that they see planes and there are "lines in the sky". You can't use "black ops" to back up your debate because, to be frank, you have no idea if thats the case.

I'd say that as debates go looking at the split experts/chemtrailers its a 95/5 score to the experts, with the 5 for the chemtrailers coming from cloud seeding and admitted experimental testing

Thats no stalemate, its a resounding victory.



posted on Apr, 23 2008 @ 02:14 AM
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I live in the desert. I live within a couple miles of a military base, and a few more miles of an international airport. In addition, Phoenix is a little over 100 miles away as well.

I almost never, never never ever see contrails.

There's over a million people in Tucson, so we must just be the luckiest people in America that the ptb don't want to spray chemicals down on us, or control the weather, or whatever story is made up to justify a fictional conspiracy.

At the risk of sounding like a disinfo agent, we'd all do a lot better focusing our efforts on more potentially real threats and conspiracies.



posted on Apr, 23 2008 @ 02:31 AM
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Originally posted by neformore
...You can't use "black ops" to back up your debate because, to be frank, you have no idea if thats the case.


Um. Was somebody arguing here? I'm sure I agreed.

Another line, just in case I get deducted points, gods forbid.



posted on Apr, 23 2008 @ 07:11 AM
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NWO mod. The black trails are most incongruent. There are many photo evidence of them. And they are very disturbing. I don't appreciate getting gang jumped by essan, oz, gel on every chemtrail post.

[edit on 4/23/2008 by jpm1602]



posted on Apr, 23 2008 @ 07:52 AM
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Originally posted by jpm1602
NWO mod.






The black trails are most incongruent. There are many photo evidence of them. And they are very disturbing.


Theres lots of photo evidence of rainbows. Do magical pixies paint the sky in pretty colours?

No. They don't. The accepted scientific explanation for rainbows is the refraction of light through water droplets in the atmosphere.

Now unless you are telling me that you believe in magical pixies, could you please explain why you would accept that explanation but aren't prepared to accept the scientific explanation for the formation of contrails?



I don't appreciate getting gang jumped by essan, oz, gel on every chemtrail post.
[edit on 4/23/2008 by jpm1602]


Then maybe a valid course of action would be to educate yourself in their professions and debate with them on a level playing field, bringing to the table some valid proof of what you claim rather than rumours or hearsay, and indulging in ad-hominem attacks on people just because they don't follow your particular viewpoint?



[edit on 23/0408/08 by neformore]



posted on Apr, 23 2008 @ 08:21 AM
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We ALL know that there IS a capacity to spray any number of chemical, biological agents, wherever anyone wants.. Ne ces't pas?


We cannot overlook that there is also incentive;
Georgia Guidestones to keep the population down.

Almost EVERYWHERE you look in America (except maybe Alaska), some places in England, Germany, Africa and ESPECIALLY China,(as well as MANY others)
there is a haze that blurs any horizon.

You could say it was ALL factory and car pollution, but, where I live most factories are downsizing or closing down, I just got laid off(all the temps were) and one of the few others is closed down. Outsourcing is rampant!

So, the potential case for chemtrails is NOT 'closed'.
Especially for us who know the nasty stuff in the air might have been put there purposefully! I grew up with asthma so bad that if I went near synthetic fragrances, I would have an attack. I could FEEL, and TASTE the disgusting chemicals.
Now, it's nearly everywhere.



[edit on 23-4-2008 by Clearskies]



posted on Apr, 23 2008 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by Clearskies
We ALL know that there IS a capacity to spray any number of chemical, biological agents, wherever anyone wants.. Ne ces't pas?


Yes, if tens of thousands if people were involved, every airliner in the world was altered to do so and billions of gallons of chemicals were made available for the purpose .......


And even then, there is still no evidence whatsoever that such spraying would be visible from the ground!

So, er, we're left with the fact that what looks like a contrail, acts like a contrail, is seen under conditions under which contrails are expected, and is never seen under conditions under which such contrails should not exist, might, just possibly, be a contrail



Almost EVERYWHERE you look in America (except maybe Alaska), some places in England, Germany, Africa and ESPECIALLY China,(as well as MANY others)
there is a haze that blurs any horizon.

You could say it was ALL factory and car pollution, but, where I live most factories are downsizing or closing down, I just got laid off(all the temps were) and one of the few others is closed down. Outsourcing is rampant!


Here in the UK a lot of that pollution haze comes from Europe - it's why it's often worse under an easterly wind.

In any case, ever notice that such pollution haze starts at ground level, and rises to a few thousand feet before fading out? Does that suggest a) the source of the haze is close to the ground or b) the source of the haze is several miles above the ground?


But, if you want to go down the pollution haze caused by chemtrail line, that presumably means that the most intensive chemtrail spraying takes place over SE Asia?

www.adb.org...



[edit on 23-4-2008 by Essan]



posted on Apr, 23 2008 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by neformore

Then maybe a valid course of action would be to educate yourself in their professions and debate with them on a level playing field, bringing to the table some valid proof of what you claim rather than rumours or hearsay, and indulging in ad-hominem attacks on people just because they don't follow your particular viewpoint?


I once went to a doctor for respiratory issues. This doctor spent almost a year diagnosing me with asthma, walking pneumonia...whatever he could think of. He gave me medicine after medicine and nothing worked. THEN, one day, he decided to send me to the allergist ACROSS THE HALL. Suddenly, I was being treated for what actually ailed me.

I once went to another doctor with extreme pain in my midsection. He assumed from the outset that I had some venereal disease, no matter that I had been celibate for NINE YEARS. He basically called me a liar and then gave me sulfa drugs. I am allergic to sulfa drugs and this nearly killed me. Beside that, come to find out through MY OWN RESEARCH, I had a fistula...an intestinal disorder of highest magnitude. NOWHERE NEAR my prostate, as the doctor believed and *insisted*, despite evidence to the contrary.

Eventually, in treating my prostate (as advised by the idiot doctor), I nearly died again from peritonitis. Had I continued to listen to either of the doctors referenced above, I would not have survived. Fortunately, I can collect my own evidence and conduct my own investigations and THIS is why I am alive to write this today.

Now, so that the point can't possible be missed, I'll state it clearly:

Being trained in a field does NOT automatically make you a god in the subject. In fact, such hubris as this KILLS people. No matter how much you have been taught and/or learned, you might NOT be the expert you think you are.

Will you put people's lives on the line to be 'right'? Good for you. What a nice hobby you have there. I hope you are always right...but you still sound like those idiot doctors of my past in doing so.


P.S. IT'S RAINING.



posted on Apr, 23 2008 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by Brapman
Being trained in a field does NOT automatically make you a god in the subject. In fact, such hubris as this KILLS people. No matter how much you have been taught and/or learned, you might NOT be the expert you think you are.


Let me let you in on a little secret of the medical field. They call doctors offices “practices” because medicine is an art, it is not a science. I have worked in both fields, and I can tell you personally that there are so many complications involved in medical diagnosis that it is far from perfect. That was one of the hardest things I had to deal with coming from an aviation and computer engineering background, because things in those two fields are very black and white, while medicine is still a very gray area. You absolutely cannot compare the two fields as they are drastically different in their complexity and nature.

As a matter of fact, aviation and meteorology are based on hard physics and science, while much of medicine is based on observation of symptoms, results, and most probable outcomes.

Essan and OZ, I am certainly not trying to trivialize your areas of profession, but the truth is that we know a LOT less about the complexity of the human body then we do about the atmosphere, there are just way more variables involved in medicine. Then we have to add the patients, often wrong, interpretations of things into the mix, not to even mention things that patients try and hide or don’t consider important about their lifestyles or environmental factors. As a prime example, when we read EEG, we still cannot tell what a person is thinking from the results as every single persons network of neurons are wired together in a different way according to their memories, environment, and life experiences.

[edit on 4/23/2008 by defcon5]



posted on Apr, 23 2008 @ 10:51 AM
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reply to post by defcon5
 


I can second defcon here...I have had close ties with doctors over the years, and have seen first-hand how the profession works.

I knew this guy, family practice, saw four patients an hour. He made lots of money, kept 'em churning, in/out, let's make more money.

Here's how it works....look at the chart outside the 'exam' room....make a snap decision already, enter and half-listen to the patient, all the while being personable and pretending to care....give 'em ten minutes to feel good, to complain or explain, all the while you (the Dr.) have already assessed the situation and are ready to move on to the next one....

I had this revelation one night while having dinner with the 'Dr.' He was so used to shutting people off, cutting them short, finishing their sentences because he was geared that way....it was 'his way or the highway'.

So, Brap...it is important to seek a health care professional who suits you. Guess you figured that out already.

As to 'chemtrails'....Brap, you made a point, in your post, about allergies. They don't come 'down' from the sky, they exist all around us, produced here on the ground, whether by Nature, or Industry. (Man)

Sheesh! If the NWO wants to kill people there are many, many more efficient ways than some nebulous 'spraying' at 35,000 feet!

I'll let your imagination do the rest...

WW



posted on Apr, 23 2008 @ 11:02 AM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


I am sorry to say that this is often true. I find myself doing it from time to time. It gets to the point where you have heard the same thing ten thousand times; you are already making a judgment before the person has even finished explaining everything to you. Most of the time our judgment is correct, but not always.



posted on Apr, 23 2008 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by neformore
Its not a stalemate at all. How can it be a stalemate when the meteorologists and aviation enthusiasts have presented such a compelling case that these things are a myth, and all the chemtrailers can come up with is that they see planes and there are "lines in the sky".


For one it should be noted that the people posting on these threads are not "chemtrailers" we are concerned citizens.


Thats no stalemate, its a resounding victory.


You are of course entitled to your opinion but I don't see the back and forth repetition of meteoroligist knowledge or aviation experts to be the only ones contributing good information to these multiple threads.

I see no victory. I see the victory in the fact that so many of the intellegent people on ATS aren't satisfied with the redundant posts by these people who I don't doubt are good in thier fields, yet they are working with the information that they are familiar with. Perhaps there are things that even they aren't aware of.

Don't underestimate the power of the people to sweep this under the rug.

No victory!!!

As a matter of fact why has this become a battle of the meteorologist and pilots against the members of ATS with great videos, first hand accounts, and other viable information they are sharing.

This isn't a debate, it is an exploration. No winners No losers, just people trying to find the truth and not settling for the "official story"



posted on Apr, 23 2008 @ 12:04 PM
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reply to post by OzWeatherman
 


Well that's it I'm convinced.... that you didn't convince me
I'm sorry to say that I'm just not really intimidated by your "something I work with dayli" routine. Chemtrails is in our skys, and no efforts are being made on my part to debate this, only what can be done about it.

For others who has come to this conclusion, by means of using their top floor (those of you who do not know what I'm talking about, just follow the "vacancy" signs), look into Orgone equipment on how to get rid of these "nothing to see here folks" chemtrails in our skies.

To those of you who are so easily frightened by the most widespread paranoia: the paranoia that others might call you paranoid, do nothing while evil advances, keep playing the role of the spectator while your country is being taken over from within.
Nothing can wake you up, but yourselves... and good luck with that by the way.


Sincerely

Cade



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