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Can you SIN while lucidly dreaming?

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posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 01:28 AM
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Sinful thoughts are natural, we all have them. What matters is the consequences of those thoughts, are you going to carry on those acts?

Sinning in thought and dreams if perfectly acceptable to me, if it's not something obsessional.




posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 01:31 AM
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Originally posted by deadline527

Originally posted by Throbber
reply to post by deadline527
 



Everyone dreams of things they cannot control. But...

When you KNOW that you are dreaming, and decide in your dream that you are going to carry out these actions in your current dream. Almost like a video game. Actually, perfect analogy!

Dreaming is my video game, I know what I am doing and I enjoy doing it because I know that it bears no consequence to the real world.


I agree with this... I think the real question is whether you think playing a video game where you commit crimnal acts and so on to be wrong... It all really depends on how sensitive your consience is because thats the thing that sends out singnals whether something is right or wrong for you... I dont think that right or wrong would exist without our consience.



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 01:32 AM
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reply to post by starrover
 


Starrover, please post the correct quotation.



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 01:33 AM
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I don't mind it when people fabricate lies based on what i have said, but when they fabricate what i say in order to lie it's just ridiculous.



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 01:43 AM
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Well, seeing as he's a tad hesitant to do the right thing, for whatever reason, i'll post the correct quotation myself and hope that the mods take notice, perhaps replacing it and covering up this little farce that starrover created.


Originally posted by deadline527

Originally posted by Throbber
reply to post by deadline527
 


Perhaps it depends on the person - i can honestly say that i've never actually dreamt of anything along the lines of killing fluffy ducks or any other cute small creature for that matter.

Plenty of times i personally have been mauled, eaten alive, sliced, diced, crushed (that was a real bad one when i was a kid) or any other macabre obscenity on the mind that i've dreamt of though.

Is it a sin to dream of your own death?

Not last time i checked, but i know it's wrong.

Come to think of it, i haven't had any of those dreams for quite some time now - perhaps for me it depends on my mental stability...

Well, regardless - I have infact willingly harmed one person (from almost a decade ago) who i felt had slighted me in some way in my dreams, but i only went so far as breaking his nose.

Still felt bad about it afterwards though.

Like i said, it depends on the person.


Everyone dreams of things they cannot control. But...

When you KNOW that you are dreaming, and decide in your dream that you are going to carry out these actions in your current dream. Almost like a video game. Actually, perfect analogy!

Dreaming is my video game, I know what I am doing and I enjoy doing it because I know that it bears no consequence to the real world.



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 04:25 AM
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Originally posted by deadline527
Yes it is, but in my reasoning...

Sin is something that negatively effects something, someone, somewhere. When you are dreaming, technically, you affect nothing. So all of your actions while dreaming consciously.. which is much different then a regular dream... carry no consequence. You wake up, then carry on with the rest of your life.



Let me just say that I feel i "sinned" in a lucid dream, and i feel pretty bad for doing it. Though it may not hurt anyone else, it hurts me and shows how ethically wrong i was. I thought if i perform this sin in a dream it wont hurt anyone. Well it hurt me and made me feel bad about myself, and that i would do that sort of thing, even in a dream. The other people in my dream were outraged also. Disgusted....

Anyways, just thought i'd let you know that even if its a dream, performing such actions can negatively affect you.



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 04:27 AM
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did someone earlier here talk about raping or molesting someone in a dream or something? I would say if its a a copy of a real person then the intentions are kind of grim. but i wont go far out and say its a sin because in a dream its close to impossible in knowing if something is consensual or not. anyway lucid dreaming and sex in general dont work well together as sex will bring forth the collapse of your control over that dream plus just exploring in lucid dreams is in itself a wonderful experience. for me its the landscape and the architecture, I never knew my mind can engender such intricate objects. if i drew them people would've flocked to see them. it seems so real and estoric. my only complaint would be the characters who arent that interesting. cant see their faces and dont respond to my words like when i ask for directions... yes, i was lost! but everyone in there is so happy and stuff: i wish the world was like that.

[edit on 11-4-2008 by DuneKnight]



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 07:12 AM
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i kinda think it depends on how far you take your lucid dreaming, i know there are people with enough practice can invade other peoples minds when they are dreaming, im sure you could live any fantasy you want in your own dreams, but where is the limit of our perversions? what if u invade others minds and practice your "sin" so to speak, but yet you may not realize u are even in their mind.



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 07:59 AM
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Originally posted by deadline527

Originally posted by Sri Oracle
I buried it under a nectarine tree in The Garden.


Just a question, why is The Garden capitalized? Does it have any special meaning to you?


I capitalize "The River" as well; along with "Heaven", "Earth", and "God".

I am One, with God,
nursed by the bosom of the Earth,
under the Light of Heaven,
I am the Garden,
I am the River,
I am the Truth,
I am the Cloth,
I am Wisdom and Love,
I am the Creator,
I am the Created
I am the act of Creation.

In Faith, Hope, and Charity...

agent to Freedom, Sovereignty, and Liberty,

graciously I AM,

Sri Oracle

Sri (An agent of Universal prosperity)
Oracle (with a God given Message of Truth)

[edit on 11-4-2008 by Sri Oracle]



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 08:11 AM
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Originally posted by ATS4dummies
Here's what I want to say about the dream reality and ethics. Anyone who has learned to do this will completely agree with this statement: The dream world is *more* real than this reality. Because of that, I treat everyone in the thought/dream world with respect. THey are not cartoons, they are real entities, and they come up with and say things I would never say or even think about. Their intelligence is truley profound. Folks, all I can say is this reality in the meat world is only just one possibility. There are other realities out there and at least the one I explore every weeked is as real as this one. I can't do it during the week , however, because it makes me feel groogy.

Gee, another dreamwalker?
Yes, this is only but one existence I am exploring concurrently too. When I'm not here, I'm in the future checking on things, myself.

You're right about the others in those other realms/dreams. A long time ago I asked myself that same question, just who are all those other folks in my dreams. It took awhile but I eventually figured out it wasn't MY dream. I was just another one of those folks too, except I was lucid. And so I knew.

And your absolutely right about what (some of) those other "occupants" have to say. But it's not always true their intelligence is so profound. While they might sometimes say things that to make you think, the non-lucid participants still seem pretty clueless. I call them the pretenders, the make-believers. It's still quite possible that the non-lucid ones could be animatronics, holodeck illusions, dream fodder, to keep us amused and from feeling alone and becoming board. They could be as fake and undeserving of respect as the other meat on earth they themselves eat. What's wrong with shoving an illusionary holodeck stage prop into a meat grinder, right?

I mean, what's wrong with being naughty in a holodeck simulation?
( other than that "do onto others..." warning printed on the control console?
)



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 08:40 AM
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Good topic.
I think some dreams may be a reflection, or rather a vision, of ourselves and of what we may be experiencing, at that exact moment, in one of our many parallel universes'.
What we do in that realm, I certainly hope, we are not accountable for in this realmare, otherwise I'd already have a pitchfork.
But then again, if we are seduced by the inccubi/succubi, is it really our fault?



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 08:46 AM
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I have read through many pages,

and I have enjoyed your many points of view.

But the thing I enjoy the most ...

is the question

Cheers

Mungo



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 09:03 AM
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i'm late coming into this discussion, but i'll throw my whatever pennies into the pool of something.

lucid dreaming is a mental action that causes experiences for the individual. if one does not view this medium as a path towards spirituality, it can just be some interesting and probably fun crazy times. christian faith believes that by just thinking of sinful actions is as awful as actually committing them. take that as you will. by THAT standard, you are definitely sinning by wanting to kill animals or having loads of out-of-control sex with individuals. the desire is then condemned and not the actual physical action.

in a lucid state, your desires good and bad come into play. what happens, you choose, and it's what you pretty much ultimately desire. if this lucidity reaps negative impulses commonly, yes, that'd be cause for concern.

but if you are open to new paths of spirituality, it would be a shame to see such talent in lucid dreaming be wasted on selfish impulses. many are seeking and trying to find this within them, and they are wanting to find themselves spiritually via that path. from this perspective, they'd call you a fool for not cherishing the gift you seem to have been given naturally. i doubt they'd say you were sinning, but they'd definitely not look highly to you.

ultimately, from a closed-minded perspective, every one of us may be sinning when we entertain ourselves with certain movies, tv shows, and video games, because it gratifies some of the desires for lust, greed, violence, and other crazy scenarios to manifest themselves. we live through them.

i personally do not believe that, but that is one perspective that one could take.



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 09:07 AM
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Originally posted by banyan
i doubt they'd say you were sinning, but they'd definitely not look highly to you.



Not quite, i alluded to the ideal that the benefits of focusing on the wisdom and knowledge that lucid dreaming can bring far more advantages than simply giving into carnal desires of the flesh and mind.

I'll make things simple; you go one way, it becomes harder and harder to go the other way.

I'm not telling anyone what is right and what is wrong.



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 09:33 AM
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Wow.. I go to sleep, wake up, and look at all these posts! Sadly, no lucid dreaming last night, more like very little sleep since I have a huge interview in center city, philadelphia today


Anyway, I really enjoyed reading many of the posts! It seems like many different people, with many different beliefs have all chipped in to sort of paint a more total picture of what we as people think of our dream actions.

As for the person who said sex in a lucid dream will wake you, it does not for me. Although, when close to climax I may wake up but other then that it is pretty much very real, and very complete. I dont know why I can dream like this, seems like many of you have trouble just staying in a lucid state without other stimuli to possible excite and wake you. I actually feel quite blessed now, lol, just hope I do not lose the ability as one said.

As for those who said it depends on your belief structure if it is considered a sin. My belief structure is very basically to harm none in any way, neither it be a bug on the floor, a plant in the soil, or your next door neighbor. I try to stay positive about everything and feel that negative energy causes negative actions. It generally is not accepted nor is it welcomed by me. Although there is times where I must admit I do feel a bit negative, when you can realize you are being effected in such a way its easier to change it into a positive outcome.

Time for my interview
Thanks so much guys for all the great posts! I really diddnt expect this topic to take off as well as it did, but then again, anyone who dreams, who remembers their dreams, or who can control their dreams, must feel a sort of nagging question about such topic. If only I could dream myself this job



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by -0mega-
 


I wouldn't really say you're on your path to immortality if you achieve this though, considering everyone wakes up SOME time.

Hell, I one time had a dream that lasted 30+ minutes, when only 1 minute passed in realtime. That's a 1:30 scale, 6 hours of sleep would mean 180 hours of dreamtime, but to achieve a 1:infinite scale is impossible afaik.

Though there were a few people that claimed to have dreamed ''years'' or even whole lives.
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That sounds like the immortality I am speaking about.
I also said "practically immortal" If you could dream a year in a single night...do the math.
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There was a thread asking what the most important "truth" we have discovered in our lives. I should have added that "time is measured by experiences" As kids we think Christmas will never come or the school year will never finish. It is because so many experiences during that time are new. As adults we get into the grind of work and each day is almost the same as the day before...we can get all coma like and time just flies by.
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I would like to ask again for any of you "lucid dreamers" if you could conduct an experiment in order to see if time passes by differently. I understand that it could be "perceived" different but I was hoping for a more objective measure.
...Could any of you read an entire book while dreaming? Could you write one? I would be curious to see if, lets say, someone would grab a history book and pick one chapter, they would then look (just look) at every page in that chapter, (hoping that the brain remembers all it sees, it is just the recall that is a problem...sort of like saying that we all possess the ability of photographic memory) anyway... after doing this, see if you could read and study that chapter while lucidly dreaming and see if you learned anything when you woke up. The implications of course would be amazing.
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I know, if it were possible, it would have been done and we would have heard about some dude that knows almost everything about everything.
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posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by St Udio


the concept of 'Sin' i've been taught; is that Sin is the Transgression of the Law.
(not the Law of society...but rather the religious Law)
there's many religious 'Laws'


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There are two types of Law.....1) Positive Law (that is all law that is man made) and 2) Natural Law.... (that includes... well everything else)

St. Thomas Aquinas' "Summa Theologia" is a great source for understanding more about that.

Just one example; the taking of a human life....that is a transgression of Natural law and requires no religious or positive law (ie. a statute) to tell us it is a sin. But positive law can be promulgated to make this sin legally acceptable. ie. "self defense" "war"
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Lucid dreaming.....are you breaking any Positive laws? of course not.
are you breaking any Natural Laws, yes if it is done by choice through exercising "free will"
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What are the consequences of sin? (Without engaging in some useless religious debate) At a minimum it brings harm to the self.
If you conciously murder someone in a lucid dream state, I don't see how it is possible to not "at least" on a subconcious level, feel you are a murderer.
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I would also argue that a primative way of justifying any action is when it is determined soley on whether you could get caught OR that you have not broken any Positive laws.
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The only requirement needed to Sin is being able to exercise free will.



posted on Apr, 11 2008 @ 09:36 PM
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reply to post by deadline527
 


Imagining yourself to be committing a sin is no more sinful than killing an oponent in a video game. Though I don't necessarily condone either.

Beware the 'Thought Police' !

[edit on 11/4/08 by Myrdyn]



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 05:38 AM
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hello ...

If I could have lucid dreams at will I'd do that to see people that I've met in my life but that I don't see anymore (girls in particular
) not to rape or kill or whatever.

Unfortunatly normal dreams more than else seem to reflect the stimuli that you have from people (more or less) around you in your sleeping time and they are in general just a sort of mirror of your daily life ... so they don't bring anything new really.

Anyway the few times that I had a lucid dream it looked more like a different reality where people had their own conscience and everthing still moved with or without me.
It's a great thing because those times it felt like if I was living 5 or 6 lives per day and everything even in the daily life looked much better because of that.

That's actually something that would make truly terrible situations, such as being stuck in a bed or chair, much much lighter.

Anyway I feel there's more power in keeping your "potential energy" more than paying someone back with what you get from them (if you don't like that) and kind of remaining empty afterward.

Try expressing it in a more creative way that actually leaves you something concrete more than taking it away from you.



posted on Apr, 12 2008 @ 04:49 PM
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Anyway the few times that I had a lucid dream it looked more like a different reality where people had their own conscience and everthing still moved with or without me.
It's a great thing because those times it felt like if I was living 5 or 6 lives per day and everything even in the daily life looked much better because of that.


That is exactly why I am so fond on lucid dreaming, because I CAN live several different lives while in my dreams. Some of these lives are full of wisdom, knowledge, and power. Other lives are actually quite selfish and almost evil, but due to the fact that there is no reason you can be, you are not hurting anyone or anything, and that as long as you do not do such actions in life I see no problems with it.

Its almost like how people go to fight clubs to get out anger and emotions without unleashing it on the real world. Well I do the same just in my dreams, which is a great way to release.



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