Can you SIN while lucidly dreaming?, page 7
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 5 times


reply posted on 11-4-2008 @ 01:31 AM by starrover
Originally posted by deadline527
Originally posted by Throbber
reply to post by deadline527



Everyone dreams of things they cannot control. But...

When you KNOW that you are dreaming, and decide in your dream that you are going to carry out these actions in your current dream. Almost like a video game. Actually, perfect analogy!

Dreaming is my video game, I know what I am doing and I enjoy doing it because I know that it bears no consequence to the real world.


I agree with this... I think the real question is whether you think playing a video game where you commit crimnal acts and so on to be wrong... It all really depends on how sensitive your consience is because thats the thing that sends out singnals whether something is right or wrong for you... I dont think that right or wrong would exist without our consience.


reply posted on 11-4-2008 @ 01:32 AM by Throbber
reply to post by starrover


Starrover, please post the correct quotation.



reply posted on 11-4-2008 @ 01:43 AM by Throbber
Well, seeing as he's a tad hesitant to do the right thing, for whatever reason, i'll post the correct quotation myself and hope that the mods take notice, perhaps replacing it and covering up this little farce that starrover created.

Originally posted by deadline527
Originally posted by Throbber
reply to post by deadline527


Perhaps it depends on the person - i can honestly say that i've never actually dreamt of anything along the lines of killing fluffy ducks or any other cute small creature for that matter.

Plenty of times i personally have been mauled, eaten alive, sliced, diced, crushed (that was a real bad one when i was a kid) or any other macabre obscenity on the mind that i've dreamt of though.

Is it a sin to dream of your own death?

Not last time i checked, but i know it's wrong.

Come to think of it, i haven't had any of those dreams for quite some time now - perhaps for me it depends on my mental stability...

Well, regardless - I have infact willingly harmed one person (from almost a decade ago) who i felt had slighted me in some way in my dreams, but i only went so far as breaking his nose.

Still felt bad about it afterwards though.

Like i said, it depends on the person.


Everyone dreams of things they cannot control. But...

When you KNOW that you are dreaming, and decide in your dream that you are going to carry out these actions in your current dream. Almost like a video game. Actually, perfect analogy!

Dreaming is my video game, I know what I am doing and I enjoy doing it because I know that it bears no consequence to the real world.



reply posted on 11-4-2008 @ 08:11 AM by Divinorumus
Originally posted by ATS4dummies
Here's what I want to say about the dream reality and ethics. Anyone who has learned to do this will completely agree with this statement: The dream world is *more* real than this reality. Because of that, I treat everyone in the thought/dream world with respect. THey are not cartoons, they are real entities, and they come up with and say things I would never say or even think about. Their intelligence is truley profound. Folks, all I can say is this reality in the meat world is only just one possibility. There are other realities out there and at least the one I explore every weeked is as real as this one. I can't do it during the week , however, because it makes me feel groogy.

Gee, another dreamwalker? Yes, this is only but one existence I am exploring concurrently too. When I'm not here, I'm in the future checking on things, myself.

You're right about the others in those other realms/dreams. A long time ago I asked myself that same question, just who are all those other folks in my dreams. It took awhile but I eventually figured out it wasn't MY dream. I was just another one of those folks too, except I was lucid. And so I knew.

And your absolutely right about what (some of) those other "occupants" have to say. But it's not always true their intelligence is so profound. While they might sometimes say things that to make you think, the non-lucid participants still seem pretty clueless. I call them the pretenders, the make-believers. It's still quite possible that the non-lucid ones could be animatronics, holodeck illusions, dream fodder, to keep us amused and from feeling alone and becoming board. They could be as fake and undeserving of respect as the other meat on earth they themselves eat. What's wrong with shoving an illusionary holodeck stage prop into a meat grinder, right?

I mean, what's wrong with being naughty in a holodeck simulation? ( other than that "do onto others..." warning printed on the control console? )


reply posted on 11-4-2008 @ 09:03 AM by banyan
i'm late coming into this discussion, but i'll throw my whatever pennies into the pool of something.

lucid dreaming is a mental action that causes experiences for the individual. if one does not view this medium as a path towards spirituality, it can just be some interesting and probably fun crazy times. christian faith believes that by just thinking of sinful actions is as awful as actually committing them. take that as you will. by THAT standard, you are definitely sinning by wanting to kill animals or having loads of out-of-control sex with individuals. the desire is then condemned and not the actual physical action.

in a lucid state, your desires good and bad come into play. what happens, you choose, and it's what you pretty much ultimately desire. if this lucidity reaps negative impulses commonly, yes, that'd be cause for concern.

but if you are open to new paths of spirituality, it would be a shame to see such talent in lucid dreaming be wasted on selfish impulses. many are seeking and trying to find this within them, and they are wanting to find themselves spiritually via that path. from this perspective, they'd call you a fool for not cherishing the gift you seem to have been given naturally. i doubt they'd say you were sinning, but they'd definitely not look highly to you.

ultimately, from a closed-minded perspective, every one of us may be sinning when we entertain ourselves with certain movies, tv shows, and video games, because it gratifies some of the desires for lust, greed, violence, and other crazy scenarios to manifest themselves. we live through them.

i personally do not believe that, but that is one perspective that one could take.


reply posted on 11-4-2008 @ 09:33 AM by deadline527
Wow.. I go to sleep, wake up, and look at all these posts! Sadly, no lucid dreaming last night, more like very little sleep since I have a huge interview in center city, philadelphia today

Anyway, I really enjoyed reading many of the posts! It seems like many different people, with many different beliefs have all chipped in to sort of paint a more total picture of what we as people think of our dream actions.

As for the person who said sex in a lucid dream will wake you, it does not for me. Although, when close to climax I may wake up but other then that it is pretty much very real, and very complete. I dont know why I can dream like this, seems like many of you have trouble just staying in a lucid state without other stimuli to possible excite and wake you. I actually feel quite blessed now, lol, just hope I do not lose the ability as one said.

As for those who said it depends on your belief structure if it is considered a sin. My belief structure is very basically to harm none in any way, neither it be a bug on the floor, a plant in the soil, or your next door neighbor. I try to stay positive about everything and feel that negative energy causes negative actions. It generally is not accepted nor is it welcomed by me. Although there is times where I must admit I do feel a bit negative, when you can realize you are being effected in such a way its easier to change it into a positive outcome.

Time for my interview Thanks so much guys for all the great posts! I really diddnt expect this topic to take off as well as it did, but then again, anyone who dreams, who remembers their dreams, or who can control their dreams, must feel a sort of nagging question about such topic. If only I could dream myself this job



reply posted on 11-4-2008 @ 10:45 AM by Res Ipsa
reply to post by -0mega-


I wouldn't really say you're on your path to immortality if you achieve this though, considering everyone wakes up SOME time.

Hell, I one time had a dream that lasted 30+ minutes, when only 1 minute passed in realtime. That's a 1:30 scale, 6 hours of sleep would mean 180 hours of dreamtime, but to achieve a 1:infinite scale is impossible afaik.

Though there were a few people that claimed to have dreamed ''years'' or even whole lives.
--------------------------------------------------------------

That sounds like the immortality I am speaking about.
I also said "practically immortal" If you could dream a year in a single night...do the math.
-----
There was a thread asking what the most important "truth" we have discovered in our lives. I should have added that "time is measured by experiences" As kids we think Christmas will never come or the school year will never finish. It is because so many experiences during that time are new. As adults we get into the grind of work and each day is almost the same as the day before...we can get all coma like and time just flies by.
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I would like to ask again for any of you "lucid dreamers" if you could conduct an experiment in order to see if time passes by differently. I understand that it could be "perceived" different but I was hoping for a more objective measure.
...Could any of you read an entire book while dreaming? Could you write one? I would be curious to see if, lets say, someone would grab a history book and pick one chapter, they would then look (just look) at every page in that chapter, (hoping that the brain remembers all it sees, it is just the recall that is a problem...sort of like saying that we all possess the ability of photographic memory) anyway... after doing this, see if you could read and study that chapter while lucidly dreaming and see if you learned anything when you woke up. The implications of course would be amazing.
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I know, if it were possible, it would have been done and we would have heard about some dude that knows almost everything about everything.
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reply posted on 11-4-2008 @ 11:03 AM by Res Ipsa
Originally posted by St Udio


the concept of 'Sin' i've been taught; is that Sin is the Transgression of the Law.
(not the Law of society...but rather the religious Law)
there's many religious 'Laws'


-------------------------------------------
There are two types of Law.....1) Positive Law (that is all law that is man made) and 2) Natural Law.... (that includes... well everything else)

St. Thomas Aquinas' "Summa Theologia" is a great source for understanding more about that.

Just one example; the taking of a human life....that is a transgression of Natural law and requires no religious or positive law (ie. a statute) to tell us it is a sin. But positive law can be promulgated to make this sin legally acceptable. ie. "self defense" "war"
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Lucid dreaming.....are you breaking any Positive laws? of course not.
are you breaking any Natural Laws, yes if it is done by choice through exercising "free will"
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What are the consequences of sin? (Without engaging in some useless religious debate) At a minimum it brings harm to the self.
If you conciously murder someone in a lucid dream state, I don't see how it is possible to not "at least" on a subconcious level, feel you are a murderer.
------
I would also argue that a primative way of justifying any action is when it is determined soley on whether you could get caught OR that you have not broken any Positive laws.
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The only requirement needed to Sin is being able to exercise free will.


reply posted on 11-4-2008 @ 09:36 PM by Myrdyn
reply to post by deadline527


Imagining yourself to be committing a sin is no more sinful than killing an oponent in a video game. Though I don't necessarily condone either.

Beware the 'Thought Police' !

[edit on 11/4/08 by Myrdyn]
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