let me ask you this. in the Chritian faith isn't impure thoughts considered a sin? if thats the case then lucid dreams would be the same thing. no?

I think it depends on whether or not you can control it.

Originally posted by Maerjo.
I think it depends on whether or not you can control it.

The whole point of lucid dreams is that you CAN control it. It is no different then being awake, other then that you are in a dream and the possibilities of what you can do are endless.

Really??? It is that simple huh?
"There is no Sin"

Is it because the Bible thumpers have turned "Sin" into a subjective biased and irrational philosophy?

Have you never felt guilt before? Is guilt just something you feel if you are doing something you could get caught for or judged for?
Does societies mories have that much influence on you?

Sin is real but you must have this cartoon like understanding of it...like God is going to judge or damn you if you do too much or something so severe.

I said before, sin is nothing more or less than "our" "freewill" "choice" "not" to "love"

The consequence sometimes is easily recognized and sometimes it isn't but the only consequence of "Sin" is the unavoidable negetive impact it has on the person sinning. (well yeah there is a victim(s) ) but we aren't taking about collateral damage here.

Get the "religion" definition of Sin out of your head and use logic and simple life experience observations.

Go kick a little kids dog in front of him and if you feel no "guilt" well then you probably are clinicaly a psychopath. But once again those individuals have a medical condition.

Lets assume you guys that say..."there is no sin" are normal well adjusted humans. If you want to take sin farther into what some religions say it is...well that is fine too...but I would suggest just using your own objective and logical observations and understand that of course there is "sin"

Now, after I post we are going to get hit hard from the Bible thumpers, I just hope my post at least gets read.

Please, by all means, if you can refute my simple definition of sin then do so but use logic and not scripture....once again....

"Sin is simply; the freewill choice not to love" (every freewill action we take has this component obviously) I guess when some people say we can't go a day without sinning...well I doubt they are wrong.

I still was hoping anyone who has "lucidly" dreamed could impart some wisdom that they learned "during" the experience.

What about the "can you read a book" question?

Can you memorize the Constitution in a single night dreaming?

If it really was some "other dimension" type thing with "real" beings....what have you learned from them?

Anybody meet Jesus or Muhamid or Howard Cosell? Can you get into area 51? Is the world you dream in just your own reality? Are the people you meet just fictious characters?

What about my question on the practical immortality expirement?
Has anyone done that yet?

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
I still was hoping anyone who has "lucidly" dreamed could impart some wisdom that they learned "during" the experience.

What about the "can you read a book" question?

Can you memorize the Constitution in a single night dreaming?

If it really was some "other dimension" type thing with "real" beings....what have you learned from them?

Anybody meet Jesus or Muhamid or Howard Cosell? Can you get into area 51? Is the world you dream in just your own reality? Are the people you meet just fictious characters?

What about my question on the practical immortality expirement?
Has anyone done that yet?

I am going to keep these in mind for the next time I am lucky enough to gain lucidity. I can tell you right now though, past experiences with reading have resulted in quite a very weird phenomenon. Every time I have tried to read while in a lucid dream, its almost as if the letters are squirming around to almost make it impossible to read. I have to date not successfully "read a book", or something of the sort. Now, I have seen single words, dates, and things like that - but any sort of sentence or paragraph has failed to be readable to me. Almost as if the letters are constantly morphing into another. I remember this very well due to a dream that has stuck in my mind where this happened, and there was words on a wall that I was unable to read due to this.

As for other dimensions and beings, I have had the chance to ask questions. The answers are usually very cryptic and I have yet to recieve a straight-forward answer like someone you meet on the street would give you. I think this is to promote thinking, and the whole idea that if something isnt handed to you, you will appreciate the answer more when you do finally come across it. I have been keeping a pen and paper next to my bed since last night and am hoping for a lucid dream within the next few days. I will try to ask some questions about certain unknown topics such as the afterlife, life in the solar system, and the nature of the soul. I will create a seperate thread for that when it happens.

Lastly, you ask if the world and people are ficticious or real. I cannot answer that with certinty unfortunetly. I have been in lucid dreams where I have conversed with my parents when I knew they were currently sleeping. I have also shared words with a dear friend of mine who passed away while I was in high school. The odd thing about when I spoke with my friend is that I found myself in the basement of his house, immediately recognized it, and proceeded up to his room. The whole house was exactly how I remembered it, yet I know for a fact his parents moved out after his death. I am not sure if this is considered talking with a spirit, but I believe that in our mind we hold the answers to more then we give ourselves credit for - and lucid dreaming is one of many ways we are able to tap into this source of knowledge so to speak.

Hopefully this was informative for you, and if you have any other questions I will try to answer them as best to my ability, as I have done previously in the thread. Some things have been explained in detail already though, so it probably would benefit a newer reader to skim through some of the older posts.

Dreams are random. If you think that your in any sort of sense of reality your dreaming has become really lucent, to your real world surroundings. This is the oracle to your life. You depend on dreams to make decisions in your life.

So if you have sinned in your dreams that was just something you thought about before while you were day dreaming. You were thinking of it, which is why you made it all the way to questioning if it was ok to do on this forum.

I bet that this is something that high religious figures contemplate all the time.


You cannot make any decisions in the dream state that you have not thought of or decided before in reality. So if your still contemplating whether you can sin or if it is ok to sin within your dreams. Then you have already done so because you have been thinking of it.


Stop bringing yourself to this level by contemplating sin.


Wake up.

Stop dreaming . . . . or sleep forever.

You cannot make any decisions in the dream state that you have not thought of or decided before in reality.

You have never had the chance to experience a lucid dream obviously. It is nothing like dreaming, more akin to being awake just inside a dream. You can do whatever your heart desires, doesnt matter if you've done it or thought of it in life or not.

[edit on 14-4-2008 by deadline527]

derfred33 beat me to it

THERE IS NO SIN

feeling guilty is not a prereq for sinning, or if you feel guilt for an act, that does not make the act in question a sin. But by being conditioned to believe that ones immortal soul is in danger of eternal damnation, also conditions an individual to believe that the authority of the church/government over the individual is somehow real. It is not real. The individual is the only authority.

rules dont exist anyways. rules exist because we give those who make the rules authority.

what if evertone on thursday started speeding, EVERYONE... what would the police do? try to pull over everyone? HA. no. they would say...welp...looks like the new speed limit is ---.

so if you can follow me, sin doesnt exist. 1 kills another, we are still just animals.

Sin is a christian act.
However if you believe that Lucid Dreaming shares the dreamscape with others as I believe. Then you are being a negative force. The golden rule should apply. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

If you think you can be a louse and get away without cost to yourself you are mistaken. In the very least you create your own hell around you.

Deadline,
by all means, please keep me posted if you discover anything at all.
I really am interested. u2u me for sure.

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
Deadline,
by all means, please keep me posted if you discover anything at all.
I really am interested. u2u me for sure.

Definitely will do. I really want to start trying to figure out how to have lucid dreams at will, instead of pretty much waiting for them to happen. I think I may start getting back into Robert Monroes' technique for astral projection - I used to try it a lot about five years ago but havent tried in a long time. Thanks for the interest and will u2u you once I get a chance to ask some of your questions.

Which Monroe's (or others') books do you suggest?

By the way, when he tells about entering a state of vibration, does he mean something like feeling hot shivers run down your spine?


[edit on 15-4-2008 by hookedfish]

Absolutely not. Doing bad things in your dreams is SO TOTALLY ABSOLUTELY DIFFERENT than doing so in real life, that is where your deeds matter. NOT in your dreams.

Good question, that really helped me get something out.

Also. If you are fully conscience and in control of your dream, why would you sin anyway? Plus if you sin you can completely disregard it from being sinful if you are in control of reality and truth.

Originally posted by hookedfish
Which Monroe's (or others') books do you suggest?

By the way, when he tells about entering a state of vibration, does he mean something like feeling hot shivers run down your spine?


[edit on 15-4-2008 by hookedfish]

Its more like an intense vibration throughout your whole body. Trust me, you will notice it, its not suddle at all, more like a pins-and-needles all over. I have never had much luck with it though, but I do think practicing did help with me being able to achieve it when I get the chance to.

On another note, I did exit my body last night, albeit briefly. I actually think the excitement may have played a bit into waking up, or the fact that I had to majorly use the bathroom, lol. Same feeling as usual, rolling out of bed and when it feels like you are about to roll off the edge, just keep going and slowly float down. For some reason this morning when I opened my eyes while out of body it was almost like I was inverted about my bed, upside down, which never happened before.

I want to add that most of the times I am able to leave the body, it occurs in the early morning. After waking up in the morning I find is the absolute best time to try to achieve an out of body experience. I think these are a little different then lucid dreams, but they both take you to the same place, or so it seems at least to me.

Now, what I need to do is decide on a single question to ask. Once I found myself out of body I started trying to remember the questions Res Ispa wanted me to ask if I encountered another being while in that state, and I think that may have contributed to me waking early as well. I actually was going to try to ask if I could get an answer that would sort of prove the ability, as in a question about Res Ispa's house, family, pets, etc... but wasnt awarded the chance, although I would rather ask a question that would benefit me more as well. This was the first oobe i've had in about a week, and am really disappointed that it ended so sudden. I will be trying again tonight as well as tomarro morning.

Any questions, feel free to ask - and try to decide on a single question that would be neat to get an answer for. The last few times I was able to talk to someone it was just trying to get them to remember it when I woke up, which diddnt work, as well as asking a friend of mine that passed away about his death. Let me know what would be neat to ask though, I am really interested in finding out as well. And still, I have been keeping a pen and paper next to my bed, although this mornings experience was pretty insignificant unfortunately.

edit: Another thing I wanted to add was that it was extremely hard to move around while out of body this time. Almost as if I was floating in zero gravity with something pulling me back. I do believe this was me being pulled back into the physical though because I awoke shortly after. Usually I am able to at least make it out of my room, but no such luck sadly.

[edit on 16-4-2008 by deadline527]