British Teacher Faces 40 Lashes for Naming Class Teddy Bear 'Muhammad'

Originally posted by kangjia57
reply to planetfall
No honour killings are wrong and an individual cant kill someone like that if the ashamed thier family or commited a big sin.Its the culture that makes people to that.
Dont mix culture with religion.

i agree, it is largely cultural, but what is the origin of this cultural adoption? it has even occurred here in cleveland, ohio. i assure you this is not part of our culture.

Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 63, Number 196:
Narrated Abu Huraira: A man from Bani Aslam came to Allah's Apostle while he was in the mosque and called (the Prophet ) saying, "O Allah's Apostle! I have committed illegal sexual intercourse." On that the Prophet turned his face from him to the other side, whereupon the man moved to the side towards which the Prophet had turned his face, and said, "O Allah's Apostle! I have committed illegal sexual intercourse." The Prophet turned his face (from him) to the other side whereupon the man moved to the side towards which the Prophet had turned his face, and repeated his statement. The Prophet turned his face (from him) to the other side again. The man moved again (and repeated his statement) for the fourth time. So when the man had given witness four times against himself, the Prophet called him and said, "Are you insane?" He replied, "No." The Prophet then said (to his companions), "Go and stone him to death." The man was a married one. Jabir bin 'Abdullah Al-Ansari said: I was one of those who stoned him. We stoned him at the Musalla ('Id praying place) in Medina. When the stones hit him with their sharp edges, he fled, but we caught him at Al-Harra and stoned him till he died.
(See also Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 63, Number 195.)

"Honor Killing": Is it Islamic?

Enough evidence has been made ... now when is some thread about Christian Extremist gonna pop up here on ATS.

reply to post by planetfall


Oh, and before we start talking about the glories of atheism, shall I blow the dust off the "Black Book of Communism"? Or how about a tome on the abuses of the French Revolution?

reply to Planetfall
Yes nicely quoted from bukhari.
Yeh exactly like i been saying that the punishment is very harsh for illegal sexual intercourse.Our prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) ordered the sahabas(followers) to stone him to death.And its not cultural though,its the Islamic law and the word of Porphet(peace be upon him) is the word of Allah.No one can change it and the followers will have to agree to it no matter if it is barbarric or not barbarric.

These people who get punished in the world for thier sins wont have to answer for it on the day of judgement.But even if they managed to hide thier sinful actions,on the day of judgement they will have to answer for it which could lead to hellfire forever.So as muslims we say its better to get punished in the world than going to hellfire because the little pain of lashes or stones in this world will be nothing compared to the pain of hellfire.
Its also known that people have admitted to thier sins willingly even though they could have got away from punishment,because like i said they rather get punished here than in hellfire.

Originally posted by kangjia57
reply to Planetfall
Yes nicely quoted from bukhari.
Yeh exactly like i been saying that the punishment is very harsh for illegal sexual intercourse.Our prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) ordered the sahabas(followers) to stone him to death.And its not cultural though,its the Islamic law and the word of Porphet(peace be upon him) is the word of Allah.No one can change it and the followers will have to agree to it no matter if it is barbarric or not barbarric.

Your prophet Mohammed had sexual relations with a 9 year old girl.
What was his punishment for illegal sexual intercourse? Or is this acceptable?
www.flex.com...

www.albawabaforums.com...

www.iranian.ws...

reply to Makkuri
Naming a teddy bear or any other toy Muhammad is wrong because they are not living things and also they are hand made, plus they are like idols.Only humans can be named Muhammad because it gives blessings,its a very blessed name thats why many kids are named muhammad.

Now you might argue that why arent animals or pets can be named Muhammad?
Thats because animals or pets dont need blessings and its very disrespectfull to use a Prophets name to name animals or hand made things.

reply to post by Beachcoma


i live in a muslim country and i agree with you on this:

It's got a lot to do with the socio-economic situation and the level of education.

What happened in Sudan would never happen where I live which is better off economically speaking. People just tend to make blanket statements about people and groups without looking into the deeper complexities. I question the facts presented in this scenario. Could just be media propaganda.

Originally posted by kangjia57
reply to Makkuri
Naming a teddy bear or any other toy Muhammad is wrong because they are not living things and also they are hand made, plus they are like idols.Only humans can be named Muhammad because it gives blessings,its a very blessed name thats why many kids are named muhammad.

Now you might argue that why arent animals or pets can be named Muhammad?
Thats because animals or pets dont need blessings and its very disrespectfull to use a Prophets name to name animals or hand made things.

I recently attended a lecture given by a very articulate Muslim man who explained how well Muslim children are trained in the laws and teachings of the Koran. He explained that from the age of three he was raised with the discipline and teachings of the Koran which led to him becoming a good Muslim. I would agree that teaching children so young will save them much grief in life, hopefully avoiding the lustful sins that can lead to their destruction, no?

Could you then explain to me, why a good size group of 7-year-olds were not apparently aware that naming their class bear would be such an offense to the prophet and Islam? Since young children often play with toys, I would think this would be an issue that would have come up within the family before the age of 7. Muslim parents do buy thier children toys, right? I have seen video of some very energetic elementary school kids who seem very well aware of the infidel and the proposed fate of such, so how could they have missed the point of respecting the name of the beloved Muhammad? Seems a little contrived to me......

Reply to chutso_ha
It’s not about people living in Sudan act more violent than people in Saudi Arabia or turkey. I mean when it comes to our religion (Islam) every Muslim agrees to Sharia law and follows the way of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) without any doubt.

People behave differently in different countries due to their cultural, economical and social conditions. People in poor countries will behave more in a violent way because the story they get told is exaggerated and they don’t have descent media so they get hyped up about it and start chanting whatever comes into their mouth.
But people in better off countries might just talk about it instead of going on demonstrations or bashing cars and buildings.

Reply to glad_to_be_His
Yes every Muslim parents should teach their kids about the respect of the name Muhammad and not name toys or animals Muhammad. But I am not sure though about the situation in Sudan, its either the parents didn’t teach their kids about the respect of name Muhammad or is it because they are just kids and their level of understanding of respect for the name of Muhammad still hasn’t sunk into their heads.
But I guess it just because they are just kids so they don’t really understand, because when they become adults you don’t find these kids doing this sort of stuff.

Originally posted by kangjia57
Reply to glad_to_be_His
Yes every Muslim parents should teach their kids about the respect of the name Muhammad and not name toys or animals Muhammad. But I am not sure though about the situation in Sudan, its either the parents didn’t teach their kids about the respect of name Muhammad or is it because they are just kids and their level of understanding of respect for the name of Muhammad still hasn’t sunk into their heads.
But I guess it just because they are just kids so they don’t really understand, because when they become adults you don’t find these kids doing this sort of stuff.

Thanks for your reply. I, personally, am not buying that but I am certainly not in a position to judge. If that is the case, what of forgiveness? If you can concede that the children have time to learn then there should be the same concession that this woman (who apparently was not properly advised by the adults who are aware of the respect for the name of the prophet) should not be treated as a Muslim as she is not a Muslim. Send her home, safely. Case closed.

glad_to_be_His
Yes like i have said back in my couple of posts before, that she should be left without any sort or sentence or punishment.Because why would she do it intentionally if she knew about the outrage she would cause by naming a teddy Muhammad.
But i am not sure myself why the Sudanese are behaving in a violent way!!!

reply to post by kangjia57


I believe you are sincere. Thanks again for your replies.

reply to post by kangjia57

Originally posted by kangjia57
People behave differently in different countries due to their cultural, economical and social conditions. People in poor countries will behave more in a violent way because the story they get told is exaggerated and they don’t have descent media so they get hyped up about it and start chanting whatever comes into their mouth.
s.

This chanting, is that why you say this all the time?

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)

It's a very odd habit, imo. Sort of like brainwashing.

Originally posted by kangjia57
glad_to_be_His
Yes like i have said back in my couple of posts before, that she should be left without any sort or sentence or punishment.Because why would she do it intentionally if she knew about the outrage she would cause by naming a teddy Muhammad.
But i am not sure myself why the Sudanese are behaving in a violent way!!!

In a country that 400,000 or more have been killed in Darfur do you think that the Sudan govenment would allow the protestors to chant their death chants without their approval?

BTW if I hang my Christian cross on my front door upside down or name a pet pig Jesus should I be killed over it, or even arrested?

Should not all this breaking of religious laws, Blasphemy, or disrespectful acts be actually handled by god himself?


[edit on 1-12-2007 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by kangjia57
People in poor countries will behave more in a violent way because the story they get told is exaggerated and they don’t have descent media so they get hyped up about it and start chanting whatever comes into their mouth.
But people in better off countries might just talk about it instead of going on demonstrations or bashing cars and buildings.

Well you kind of hit the nail on the head as to why Islam is dangerous.

With 1.2 billion in the world how many of that 1.2 billion are part of the poor ignorant that believe and do whatever their religious leadership decides for them to do?

There are extreme Christian cults that can be very dangerous, but they do not have 10,000s (100,000s?) following them as many extreme Muslim Clerics and leaders do.

If there was a situation in the US were 1000s of David Koresh’s had 10,000 of followers willing and able to do whatever their leader suggested based on his version of the bible, and they followed their leader even in the event of death for themselves or others while doing all this in total ignorance (for that is all they know) it then could be said that the US would be in the same situation as the Middle East.

This would take a religion like Islam or Christianity that are basically non-violent and create a dangerous situation for the US and quite possibility the world.

Well this is what the Middle East is all about and why it has become a major threat to the world. The Muslim living next to me in the US I view as a normal person with a normal family. The Muslim I view in the Middle East I view them as 10s of millions of ignorant followers of extreme self-serving leaders that use all this ignorance as a weapon against the western world.

Originally posted by kangjia57
It’s not about people living in Sudan act more violent than people in Saudi Arabia or turkey. I mean when it comes to our religion (Islam) every Muslim agrees to Sharia law and follows the way of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) without any doubt.

Sudan, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey are the three extreme of Muslim-majority countries. Sudan is poor and backward. Saudi Arabia is rich and backward. Turkey is rich and progressive (by 3rd world standards; it's practically part of Europe by now, and ahead of Bosnia or Belarus.)

Money did nothing to make Saudi Arabia culturally any different than Sudan or Afghanistan or Iraq.

People behave differently in different countries due to their cultural, economical and social conditions. People in poor countries will behave more in a violent way because the story they get told is exaggerated and they don’t have descent media so they get hyped up about it and start chanting whatever comes into their mouth.
But people in better off countries might just talk about it instead of going on demonstrations or bashing cars and buildings.

That's only part of the problem. There are plenty of poor non-Muslim countries in Asia and South America, but you don't see many "Death to America and Israel" demonstrations there, or bashing of cars and buildings. Japan was a typical poor land of peasants in mud huts 150 years ago, and now they are the 2nd economic power in the world, and with no oil or other easily-exploitable natural resources. South Korea was almost the same. No Muslim country modernized in the same way.

And remember that the plotters of 9-11 were Saudi millionaires. They were definitely not starving peasants with nothing to lose.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
If there was a situation in the US were 1000s of David Koresh’s had 10,000 of followers willing and able to do whatever their leader suggested based on his version of the bible, and they followed their leader even in the event of death for themselves or others while doing all this in total ignorance (for that is all they know) it then could be said that the US would be in the same situation as the Middle East.

It is worse than that. Thanks to Saudi funding, the most dangerous variants of Islam are the most powerful and influential, and this goes (mostly) world-wide. It's the Muslim moderates who have to go underground, and shut up, and watch their asses all the time. That's why we in the west seldom hear anything from the moderates.

A protest was held outside the Sudanese Embassy in London today

www.guardian.co.uk...

British Muslims protested outside the Sudanese Embassy over the treatment of jailed teacher Gillian Gibbons.

The small but noisy group demanded the immediate release of Mrs Gibbons, who is currently serving a 15-day prison sentence in Sudan after her class of seven-year-olds named a teddy bear Mohammed.

Chanting "free, free Gillian" and "let her go, let her go", demonstrators attempted to hand over a "goodwill teddy" to the embassy, but a staff member refused to accept the gift.

Some 20 British Muslims, including MP for Tooting Sadiq Khan and chairman of the Islamic Human Rights Commission Massoud Shadjareh, gathered outside the Sudanese embassy in Piccadilly.

A small protest but nice touch with the bear!

The teddy bear is the most sincere symbol of love little children know and these people are offended.

Are these people not capable of love?
Would they rather see their children blow themselves up?

Libs and terrorist sympathizers take heed, they don't want to sing Kumbaya with you.
Further proof that you cannot reason with these people.