British Teacher Faces 40 Lashes for Naming Class Teddy Bear 'Muhammad'

reply to post by Sparky63


Of those nations you listed, can you tell me one that hasn't had Western influences trying to change their goverment/social policy?

Reply to DJMessiah
I agree the Taliban were forceful on things such as growing beard. But when it comes to women getting medical care from female doctors than that’s how it should be done in Islamic way. Women are allowed to work in Islam but only with other women. Islam is very strict about women being with men they are not related to and vice versa. In extreme cases if there are no female doctors around than there could be an exception for the women. Remember even looking at women is not allowed in Islam the rest you can think logically.

The Taliban didn’t keep the the population uneducated, Afghanistan is a poor country and the economy is bust plus people hardly have the basics. That’s the reason there’s hardly any facilities for education. You couldn’t have expected Taliban to build schools, colleges and universities while they themselves where busy fighting the shia Northern alliance.

Of course every Muslim should be educated in both Islamic and worldly knowledge. Even in Quran it states that with more knowledge will you understand Islam more. But knowledge should be gained in the right environment. Islam is against Co education where male and female are mixed together. The Islamic way to educate men and women is to make education institutes separate for men and women.

Reply to _Phoenix_
The Taliban were created to bring proper Islamic law in Afghanistan. Every organisation has a leader and so did the Taliban. In Islam if there’s a Islamic state than you also have a khalifa( Muslim leader) who helps run it. If the Taliban really were power hungry and greedy than they wouldn’t have destroyed those Buddha’s which the Japanese were ready to give a blank cheque for. In Islam idols or statues are not allowed so that’s why they destroyed them.

They only went wrong when they decided to collaborate with AL Qaeda and that’s what messed things up for them. I mean if they did handover osama and his followers when the Americans wanted him after 9/11 than the Taliban wouldn’t have had to face the coalition force.

Originally posted by kangjia57
But when it comes to women getting medical care from female doctors than that’s how it should be done in Islamic way.

Tell us, where do these women doctors get their education from? If women were forbidden to leave their homes, how would the female doctors help their female patients?

Women are allowed to work in Islam but only with other women.

Incorrect. Nothing in the Quran says this. This is a cultural practice that has existed prior to Islam being taught by Muhammad.

Remember even looking at women is not allowed in Islam the rest you can think logically.

Once again, incorrect. If this were true, then how did Muhammad meet Kadija?

The Taliban didn’t keep the the population uneducated, Afghanistan is a poor country and the economy is bust plus people hardly have the basics.

The Taliban did everything they could to keep the public from learning nothing other than Islam in schools. Not only Islam, but their version of Islam. When only males are allowed in schools, and are only taught the extremist version of Taliban Islam, wouldn't you care to say that they are keeping the public from an education? Islam is a way of life, but you cannot only live knowing about Islam. The Quran requires us to educate ourselves, be scholars. The most notable of Muslims in history created the greatest of technologies, medicines, poetry, and art.

That’s the reason there’s hardly any facilities for education. You couldn’t have expected Taliban to build schools, colleges and universities while they themselves where busy fighting the shia Northern alliance.

Why build schools, when they shut most of them down? The Northern Alliance was Afghanistan's only hope of freeing Afghanis from Taliban's oppresion.

The Islamic way to educate men and women is to make education institutes separate for men and women.

Private schools exist both here in the US and other places in the world. But with necessity, some schools will have to teach both genders. In Afghanistan, children are taught together, because of the lack of teachers.

[edit on 3-12-2007 by DJMessiah]

Reply to DJMessiah

‘Women are allowed to work in Islam but only with other women.’

So you tell me where does it say in Quran that women can work happily with men wherever they want matey? It’s stressed by many Islamic scholars that women should try not work in same environment where there are men around.

‘Remember even looking at women is not allowed in Islam the rest you can think logically.’

Fair enough I didn’t explain that one properly. You are allowed to have a glance at a women but that’s only if you accidentally look at her and you have to make sure you take your eyes off her straight away. And when you are getting married to someone than you are allowed to look at them aswel.
Women are allowed to become doctors,teachers,nurses or whatever profession they want. The Taliban might have stopped them from doing that but remember they rather have women sitting at home than mixing with men in educational institutes. You have probably noticed in mix education institutes, sometimes they are more of dating centres than for educational purposes.
So you do agree that Islam says women and men cannot be educated together. That’s the point I was only trying to make.


Every Muslim should have Islamic knowledge first so that he can spend his life according to the Sunnah (teachings of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and the Quran. Yes a Muslim who wants to get education should also be allowed to get that aswel.Like I said before ‘with more knowledge will you understand Islam more’.
The northern alliances are shias and I am a Sunni so I rather have the Taliban taking care of things in Afghanistan.

The teacher has been pardoned by Sudan's President.

She is to be handed over to the UK embassy.

Well that settles it then. Humanity does have a chance

It has been reported here in Australia on late night TV news that the woman in question has been officially pardoned by the Sudanese powers that be, after they met with some British Muslim counterparts...

Thank goodness reason has prevailed in this instance...

Peace

reply to post by kangjia57



in further reply to sparky: you act as if Westerners are never violent are rise up in anger and rebellion. i don't want to get into a tit for tat on this, because it is a waste of time. the fact is, all humans have violent tendencies given certain circumstances. and kangjia is right, you simply cannot judge the whole of a group by the relative few militant, rabble rousers (that exist in any socio-economic strata).

it is a shame to judge people in that manner. people need to try and understand others through information exchange rather than acting superior - and hypocrical - to others.

cheers,

chutso

reply to post by jedimiller


Nothing to do with humanity, more like the threat of an SAS team wiping out some guards, econimic sanctions and other behind the scenes pressure has led to this womans release. Personally i would have prefered military action to send some knife wielding maniac's to their 72 virgins in the sky.

Im normally a peaceful person but Islam sickens me to the core. These people are living in lala land.

reply to post by chutso_ha


I have been waiting for ten pages for someone to explain a positive effect Islam has on society. When you can answer that question then maybe my opinion will change.

I would also like you to name one instance when a riot has erupted in a Western country due to the naming of a teddy bear (peace be upon him) / publishing of a cartoon or anything comparable. I highly doubt you will even find our right wing groups calling for the beheading or murder of people who offend them.

Our superiority complex comes from the ability to allow freedom of speech and thinking, not brainwashed to be a minion. I will say it again Islam is MYTH AND LEGEND.



[edit on 3-12-2007 by Grenade]

[edit on 3-12-2007 by Grenade]

Reply to Grenade
You should be glad that no military action was taken and Sudanese eventually released her. Because you would have lost 20-30 soldiers easily just trying to get her out. These maniacs would start urban war on the streets MOGADISHU style. You might end up killing 100 of maniacs but 1000 innocents would have lost their lives. And that will lead to more extremism more violence and more unstable region.

Reply to grenade
‘Im normally a peaceful person but Islam sickens me to the core. These people are living in lala land.’

1.2Bil Muslims don’t live in lala land. What you need to do is learn more positive things about Islam than just making assumptions to what you hear on media.Theres a reason why Islam is the fastest growing religion and Women are converting more to Islam.

reply to post by kangjia57


I'm interested in something.

You see, as moderate a person as I am - and I'm a real puppy dog compared to some on here - it must be said, I'm going back to the part of the discussion about where you raised the point about wanting to see your sharia law in the UK.

I have to say that there is no way ever that my daughter will be forced to subjgate her position in the world to anyone, and I would fight tooth and nail in order to ensure that she goes where she wants, when she wants, speaks to whomever she chooses of whatever sex, learns what she wants and will never be forced to cover her face.

Now you're quite welcome to your religion, but it is, after all YOUR religion. Me, I'm atheist. I'm quite happy sticking to doing things my way and I'm not about to shove it down your throat and demand that you follow my way.

Can you say the same?

Reply to neformore
I was just stating the facts from my religion on how can the Sharia law be applied going back a few posts! I am not forcing my religion down your throat. You have a choice of the way of life you wana follow not me or anyone else can change it. And the same for your daughter.

‘Learns what she wants and will never be forced to cover her face’

Muslim women in Britain and around the world have a choice aswel,they don’t and cannot get forced to cover their faces. Its their choice and they wana do it! And if you wana know why they cover their bodies and faces? That’s because they don’t want people to look at there bodies in lustful way.Thats why in Islam it has been strictly stated that Muslim women should cover themselves from heard to toe.Islam gives them respect and protection ,it doesn’t undervalue them in any way,even they have their RIGHTS.
e.g.A rapist is likely to rape a girl with a mini skirt and a tight top than a girl who has totally covered herself

Originally posted by chutso_ha


in further reply to sparky: you act as if Westerners are never violent are rise up in anger and rebellion. i don't want to get into a tit for tat on this, because it is a waste of time.

Perhaps you should have read the rest of my posts before accusing me of elevating Western Society. I did no such thing.
For instance in this post: www.abovetopsecret.com...
I stated:

Christianity has a bloody past, both ancient & recent. They cannot claim the high ground either in my opinion. The same holds true for them.

Or here: www.abovetopsecret.com...
Where I stated that violence is not restricted to Muslims

; Christendom cannot claim the high road.

Rwandan Christians played in the swiftest and in some ways most brutal genocide of the 20th century.
Rwanda was the most heavily Christianized country in Africa. Some 90 percent of the people identified themselves as Christians. The Roman Catholic Church, to which 65 percent of the population belonged, played a huge role in Rwandan society. Christian churches, seminaries, schools and other institutions were sprinkled throughout the land.

And yet all of this Christianity did not prevent genocide, a genocide which leading church officials did little to resist, in which a large number of Christians participated, and in which, according to African Rights, more people "died in churches and parishes than anywhere else."
At least 500,000 Tutsis and thousands of moderate Hutus died in the genocide. Some estimates put the death toll between 800,000 and 1,000,000.

Alas more recent than past. Do not deceive yourself that it cannot happen again.

I also stated here: www.abovetopsecret.com...
that I believe the majority of Muslims want to live in peace:

I agree that the vast majority of Muslims want peace. The main problem in my opinion is their religious leaders.

Western civilization has it's own problems. That however, was not the subject of this thread. I will be the first to condemn the violence that takes place there too.

The purpose of my previous post was to show that regardless of the nation, the typical Muslim reaction is one of violence, breathing threats of murder...ect.
It is true that Muslims in Western Nations are do not seem to react so violently. Is is because they are better educated? less religious? afraid to openly express how they feel? Please tell me why you feel there is a difference in their responses? I am truly curious.

While believing that the majority of Muslims want peace, I also feel that they are willing to accept violence in order to achieve it. I believe that the average Muslim's conscience is naturally offended by the types of barbarism that is common in Muslim societies. However, any natural disdain for violence is overcome by the powerful Clerics Mullahs, & Imams who preach hate in the name of Allah.

Obviously I do not believe muhammed to be a prophet of God. Regarding religion I say; from their fruits you recognize the true followers of God. If any religion promotes hatred, violence, or oppression of their fellow man then they are not from God.
In my opinion Christendom and most of the worlds religions falls into this category.

the fact is, all humans have violent tendencies given certain circumstances.

Agreed. But Islam promotes it instead of condemning it.

and kangjia is right, you simply cannot judge the whole of a group by the relative few militant, rabble rousers (that exist in any socio-economic strata).

I agree with your statement. I commend those muslims and their leaders who speak out against acts of violence like the ones I showed in the pics I posted. I wish there were more.

it is a shame to judge people in that manner. people need to try and understand others through information exchange rather than acting superior - and hypocrical - to others.

I reject those who act violently toward their fellow man. I have long history of dealings with Muslims. I personally employ over 250 of them in my business. I have spent $1000,s in legal feel to help them immigrate to the US. They are constant guests in my home and today I am buying a car for on of my employees. The ones I befriend are ones who are intelligent enough to recognize that Muhammad was a man. nothing more. Some of them go to Mosque but most do not. I do not care one way or another.



[edit on 3-12-2007 by Sparky63]

[edit on 3-12-2007 by Sparky63]

[edit on 3-12-2007 by Sparky63]

I'm very glad the woman is being released. Also turns out, this whole thing was started not by parents, but a disgruntled school employee...

KHARTOUM, Sudan (CNN) -- In an effort to shut down Khartoum's Unity High School, a disgruntled former employee alerted Sudanese officials that a British teacher had allowed her class to name a teddy bear "Mohammed," a British source and Sudanese presidential palace source told Time magazine's Sam Dealey
www.cnn.com...

One thing I wonder about, is if the western muslim organizations that did come out against this, did so because they may lose funding or contributions over incidents like this. I know of several instances where "moderate" muslim organizations from the west are actually found to be giving money to extremists...any thoughts?

reply to post by LDragonFire


Wow... And it was the children who named the teddy bear? (O_o)

We have Christians on this side of the ocean who would ask for the death penalty if Jesus' name was 'soiled'...

We have Muslims on the other side of the ocean who would ask for the death penalty if Muhammad's name was 'soiled'...

The religions are absolutely fine - it is the ones running it that are out of touch with their own religions if you ask me.

This is really what we need as a world:

Christians---->

Well isn't that very gracious and understanding of them!
We are all wrong, Islam is the religion of peace and enlightenment.
I take it all back and I won't ever say another negative thing about Islam and it's mighty profit (sic) Allah.

Oh, and as for Sharia Law ever being imposed in Britain, never, loathe as I am to quote this but the streets really will run with blood before this ever happens and there would only be one winner, and we all know who that will be.

Reply to Sparky63
‘It is true that Muslims in Western Nations are do not seem to react so violently. Is is because they are better educated? less religious? afraid to openly express how they feel? Please tell me why you feel there is a difference in their responses? I am truly curious.’

I have told you before aswel that Muslims in Western countries don’t react as violently because they are more educated in Islamic knowledge and worldly knowledge. The most important reason like I said before Muslims have to follow the rules and laws of the country they live in. If you discriminate or be racist against Hindus or Sikhs I am sure you will get the same violent reaction in India without doubt matey!

‘While believing that the majority of Muslims want peace, I also feel that they are willing to accept violence in order to achieve it. I believe that the average Muslim's conscience is naturally offended by the types of barbarism that is common in Muslim societies. However, any natural disdain for violence is overcome by the powerful Clerics Mullahs, & Imams who preach hate in the name of Allah.’

So its only Muslims who only cause violence??? Well lets talk about what Israelis do in Palestine?Lets talk about what Americans do in Afghnanistan and Iraq?lets talk about what Russia is doing in Chechnya?Lets talk about what happened in Bosnia which was in the so called PEACEFUL EUROPE?

‘I understand the ones I befriend are ones who are intelligent enough to recognize that Muhammad was a man. nothing more. Some of them go to Mosque but most do not. I do not care one way or another.’


The Muslims that you keep talking about you work with, they might not be practising or going to the mosque. But For a Muslim the Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) is more important than any of his relations or friends in this world. As a Muslim you are meant to love the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) more than your parents the most dearest relation to a human. hats the level of respect and love we have for our Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and you have to believe in it in order to have a complete faith.

So when you disrespect our Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) than you can imagine why we go berserk matey.