Suicide...For a Reason?

Ok, let's see if I can help (or create havboc--i like both)

this is a quote from an essay of mine, modified by my mother for the board she poseted it on--moderator there:
forum.ship-of-fools.com... b=get_topic;f=2;t=004448

2 paragraphs:

How many times do people, either through words or with their lives, have to tell Americans that freedom has a heavy price -- that it is built upon constantly living with the fear and animosity of those who may never understand just what it is that we have?

For me, however, this indignity loses much of its sting. As a Christian, I was raised to believe that either I'm doing God's will or His enemy's. The only freedom I have is to choose which to be subservient to. So, to me, much of what we call "freedom" is an illusion. It's utterly hilarious, so ironic, that I believe in fighting for something I see as an illusion. I could very well lose my life for an illusion!

and explanation: remember, this is philosophy and is not meant to hurt anyone

As a Christian, the only freedom is to chose who to be a slave to; when Christians become �free,� they are given the choice of either being a sinner of not�something they did not have a choice over before conversion, as all are sinners. If this is so, then much of what is called freedom in America is nothing more than a puff of smoke to Christians�as it should be. If something as simple as freedom can be a matter of perception, then where is it�s absolute? Ah! There is none in it. All of a sudden you fall into a world where freedom doesn�t exist, and while yet still using the understanding of freedom that I have always known, I HAVE to make sense of what I see. There is nothing to see; there is no freedom. What then, do I tell the world? Hello! I�m the one who sees, but what I see is blindness. The reason that much of what the poor people if this particular reasoning�not JUST for freedoms, but on every concept of LIFE as it IS�sound so vague is that it is hard to explain that blindness is seeing, especially when you have the thought of the blind leading the blind into the ditch.

The sad part is I only explained this through relating one box to another, not by thinking outside it. While not trying to be mean, some of this will be beyond some who read it; I often can�t relate what�s out there because English hath not the words to relate it. Remember, psychologists say: reality is only 10% of what we think of it. These are two overlays, beliefs about reality and they are the box we trap ourselves in.

This is the way I normally choose to view things: we are here to learn. The more we learn, the more we realize that we really don�t know anything, so we search harder. As we search, we realize the futility of everything we do. So we got to the grave, figuring out that everything was meaningless. Yet we are here to learn. For some reason, this makes me happy beyond reason, and in utter happiness, I quit searching and thereby do not fulfill my purpose. I become a waste, and shouldn�t exist.

That is still thinking inside the box, and does not get to the truth.

Suicide...For a Reason?

I've done several researches in my past and I have a strong belief that some people commit suicide for some unknown reason. Maybe they have uncovered a secret that was so relieving or so horrifying that they took life into their own hands. You have to have some strength, you must admit, to die.


From the people that I know that have commited suicide I can assure you that it was not because they uncovered something so horrifying. Two of my friends commited suicide. One did it over a woman and the other because he wasn't happy with his life. Both as far as I'm concerned are ridiculous reasons but who am I to judge?

I've read some responses that they were cowardly for doing such a thing. Why is it cowardly? If they don't want to be here...so be it...it is their choice and I hold no grudges. Sure it would be nice to have them around as we had some good times together. The problem with suicide is this....It is not the person who commits suicide that greives...it is the poeple that care that go through the pain and thats what the people who want to kill themselves should think about.

My grand father killed himself when my mother was about five. You have said, The Raven, it takes strength to take your life; no it doesn't. My family never knew why he killed himself, he was a very sucessful and happy man, but he did kill himself.

My father's first wife ODed on pills to kill herself, he never knew why ether. Yes Perhaps they did have some horrible secret, mabye my grandpa's company was run by evil spacemen for all we know.

The point I want to make is that, with or with out a reason, suicide is another word for running away. To force my grandmother to mop her husband's blood off the floor, or my father to call his dead wife's parents to tell them that their daughter FUGKING O.D. ON SLEEP PILLS AND DRUGS TO DIE takes no strength at all, it is the weakest option there is.

I hate my grandpa and even my dad's first wife, who I never even knew (I was born to his current wife). I don't like to say that I hate them, but I do, they abandoned the people that loved them rather than try to work their problems out that, to me, is the worst kind of cowardice.

don't think of the people who die think of who they leave behind. That is why it's cowerdly, I See You, they run away

[Edited on 24-4-2004 by ShirtNinja]

[Edited on 24-4-2004 by ShirtNinja]

I would forget why I wrote what I wort; just two above


The thing is that thinking the way I do, many people suicide; if they can't handle the reasoning because it is not right.

There was a peroid of time in which I would have--if I could have thought of it--I was 8, and out of my mind with emotions I did not understand--I had been recently sexually assaulted by a close friend--10 years older than me--his mum was a memeber of my church.

Not all minds are weak; they are just sometimes too young to be handling the adult world. You don't need to learn things before it is time, either for you or your teacher. That, I believe, leads to true insanity.

Originally posted by jlc163
I would forget why I wrote what I wort; just two above


The thing is that thinking the way I do, many people suicide; if they can't handle the reasoning because it is not right.

There was a peroid of time in which I would have--if I could have thought of it--I was 8, and out of my mind with emotions I did not understand--I had been recently sexually assaulted by a close friend--10 years older than me--his mum was a memeber of my church.

Not all minds are weak; they are just sometimes too young to be handling the adult world. You don't need to learn things before it is time, either for you or your teacher. That, I believe, leads to true insanity.

you are a prime example of a person with real strengh and bravery, rather than use a gun in your mouth you thought of actual alterinitves, yes they proably actualy required work, but now at least you're alive.

I dont think its right at all for yall to be saying that suicide = selfishness..

No one EVER asked to be brought into this world.. We were yanked out of God-knows-where, and plopped in this pisshole of an existence. (well, maybe some of you either have a good life/or can delude yourselves into thinking so) .. Why is it selfish to take into your own hands one of the only things that you can have 100% control over? I think its selfish of you to put them down for doing so.. Why do you want them to have to live through hell? Just because you have to?

I dont think its the "easy way out", I think that knowing you are leaving behind everything beautiful (albeit, along with everything bad) and good in order to escape to some unknown place. Thats not easy, thats damn tough.

Some people just arent cut out for this world, and those are the people I think that kill themselves. I do think a fraction of why they do end up doing it is because they learn something most people dont. Maybe its some cosmic secret, or maybe its just that the world sucks, and everything "good" is an illusion we pull over the crap stinking up our existance.

If I didnt live with my parents (still 17, not some 30 y/o living at home) I wouldve done myself in long ago. But living with them, I wouldnt want them to do have to deal with my affairs afterwards. But I do applaud those who choose to kill themselves (and not just for attention), it is the ultimate symbol of defiance in the face of this "world".

People whine, and people complain. But when they would rather die than live here, that says a lot.

Fin.

Sorry got off the "flowing topic", was just responding in a general way :-/

I know earth SUCKS, it's obvious after year 1. But I am a very close follower of guys like Darwin, with the natural adaption and all, to kill yourself is to simply refuse to adapt to just how much this little hell-spawned rock is. THose who step away from the brink of oblivion take the option to adapt. If you do let your mind,body,and evrything else adapt to this place not only can humanity live, we can thrive.

and evry single person who posted ANYWERE on this site is an example of that, quite simply becuse we choose to live.

What would one gain for "adapting" though? Another 60-70 years to lose everything/everyone youve ever loved?

Overrated, me thinks.

I can see where some people would want to "adapt" and survive, but I can also certainly see where even more people would just want to goto sleep and never wake up.

Half full, half empty, I suppose.

I'll ask you this, how do you want to be remembered?

Not at all..

*thinks of something to talk about so no oneline post penalty*

In the 60's or 70's a monk lit himself onfire to protest some sort of buddhist thing.. Dont know for sure, because wasnt alive back then.. Anyone know the name of the guy/incident so that I might find a picture?

[Edited on 25-4-2004 by shidge.]

so you just wish to remain som obscure blot in the history books, how sad for you.

Haha, I dont even want to be some "blot in a history book".

Most people I know who are suicidial dont really wanna be remembered. They want the totally undo their crappy existence.

They dont want to have lived and died, they just want to have never been born at all.

Doesnt seem that sad to me in that they are finally getting what they've been wanting..

Wow this thread has seemed rather teen angsty.. Any minute linkin park is gonna come post "I M 1 STEP CLOSER 2 TEH EDGE & I AM ABOUT TO BRAKE!!!!1111" lol.

look, I bring up rememberance beacuse of this, what is a better afterthought of a man:

a) killed himself when life got hard

or

b) when life got hard he relized that he could live through it, rather than to die.

which one do you want on a tombstone, shame or curage?

Well, I think that only seems shameful because of how you look at it.

I dont think there is anything shameful in killing yourself, and I dont think it means that you are "strong" because you dont.

I think if your life sucks, and you keep going, its because you are too attached to this world to end it. You _need_ this world.

You wont gain anything from living the rest of your life, because the world doesnt care if you "have the strength to carry on" or not. It wont reward you for choosing to live, it will just keep (as I said to a friend) "hitting baseball after baseball straight for your crotch, just like on Americas Funniest Home Videos" .

Also, why would someone care about whats on their tombstone? They are dead lol.

I dont think this is really arguable between us, because our views appear to be so far apart, that any point either of us uses to hold up our position will seem stupid to the other. hehe.

yea, lets just call it a truce man

you are a prime example of a person with real strength and bravery, rather than use a gun in your mouth you thought of actual alternatives, yes they probably actually required work, but now at least you're alive.

I wish that I could say this is true. I�m not particularly strong with anything but being stubborn, yet.

Seriously, the only thing that kept me from killing myself was the fact that I didn�t REALIZE that I could. It never occurred to me. I didn�t even know we had knives in the kitchen�I can�t remember Mamma cooking during that time. I was 8 years old and not only was I going through the trauma of a sexual assault, I was also being moved around a lot. I was in a new school each year�moved from Louisiana (where I had extended family around me constantly) to Iowa, where both my parents worked to keep food on the table�so I was the oldest and on my own a lot�not for very long periods of time�that didn�t happen until I was older. We had to move because of the market fell out of the oil field back in the mid 80�s. Other kids didn�t like me; my friends often sold me out. (I also, to this day believe that I can be diagnosed as clinically depressed�depression is not being SAD all the time. THEN, it showed.) When my cousin lived with us (7 years), after school, almost every day, lock myself in the bathroom. I would scream at the top of my lungs, doubled over, tears streaming down my face, �Why God, why did you leave me? Let me die! Oh GOD, just let me die! You let my sister out of this; why did you leave me?� This is now called the survivors syndrome.

When I was 2 weeks off of being 2, just 2 days after my baby sister�s 1st birthday, there was a freak accident. My mom was at work and Dad had just gotten us out of the tub. He forgot to unplug the stopper. He left the room to find a towel, and we both climbed back into the tub on our own. She slipped and hit her head on the faucet. She slipped under the water and her last breaths were bathwater. My only memory of that time were playing with dad�s canister of Vaseline (to clean off hands from car work-I think we were coated in it) with someone smaller than me�barely able to reach the sink. I never cried out, I believe, because she had enough time to drown before my dad got back. My psychology teachers say that I should have gotten psychiatric help back when I was 2, before all these crazy side-effects had time to develop, but I was the first child of a man who thinks psycs. are quacks�that and he doesn�t understand how much I was screwed up�I wouldn�t let them see me crying. He didn�t really approve of me crying when he pissed me off in the middle of roughhousing�so I eventually learned to never cry. I didn�t cry when the man I loved slept with my best friend�at least not until he made me sit down and forced me to cry. (This was some time back and is a crazy story in it�s own rite�but the full extent is totally unrelated.)

I grew out of that particular bout of depression at about the age of 10, and not long after, my dad told me it was a sin to commit suicide�based on scriptures. So now it�s kind of ingrained that it is wrong, though sometimes I wised that I had remembered we have knives self-depreciating laugh inserted here. I won�t ever take my life.

Now, as for my dad: a couple of years ago, I found out that my dad was almost thankful that I had been the one to survive. You see, he�s a father�so he didn�t have those nine months of pregnancy to get attached like my mother did, and Lorelei was just a baby and didn�t have enough personality to make her any more than an infant. I was talking as if I was an adult less than a year from that point. I was saying full sentences at 2. I had quite a colorful personality. I was real; I had form. You more expect babies to die�SIDS�not a little adult. If I had been the one that died, my dad may never have recovered. He, the whole man that he is, said he didn�t think he would have recovered. Don�t get me wrong; it tears him apart to this day, but it wasn�t his firstborn. So the way my sick mind looks at it, I went through those years of absolute torture, wishing wistfully even now that I didn�t have to go through it, just so my dad wouldn�t go through it. I am NOT whole. I am NOT taking anyone with me. I�m stuck here, trying to convince myself that life, in and of itself is beautiful�which is true; it�s life. As far as syntax goes, life is love is God is everlasting�hey go look @ scriptures for this one.

My father is a strong man�I can�t ever remember meeting someone more independent, capable of fending for himself, but he had a breaking point. It�s me; it�s his other grown boys.

Everyone has a breaking point for many things�even suicide. I was lucky; I lived through mine. It gets easier each year, but I�m still coping. The only thing that stops it is that I don�t see another direction; I have no options. I have to live. As I said earlier, I�m too damn stubborn.

Now, as far as needing this world goes: My life, now, is pretty damn good. I�m 22. I enjoy men�though I can�t think of one of them that I could stand to BE with for the rest of my life. (I don�t want to give my life over to anyone!) I don�t stay here for me; I stay here for those who think they need me.

I have never thought this much about this.

There is a somewhat simple solution to help people deal with suicide:

You know what's wrong. Face it. Don't lie to yourself. Just face what you KNOW is wrong.


It is the trick the psychologists use to force people out of major depression. There is always a key moment that triggers the insecurity that leads to depression and suicide. The person always knows what it is but refuses to face it, believing that they can deal with it alone. Well, that's not the case. Don't let the fear consume you. Face your fears and they will quickly dissolve, even if the worst outcome comes true. Why? Because the truth is easier to bear than the lies in your head.

God, this thread is so confusing. Read thru the whole 11 pages and still has no idea what this guy is talking about. It sounds very interesting and all but just do not have a clue.

It's like the riddler in the batman movie where he will only give clues. But, atleast the riddler in the batman movie gives more clue then what this guy is giving so that batman can figure it out what the answer is.

You say that we won't understand it so why not just post what you found out anyways and if people that will understand it will understand it and people that don't will just never understand.

You know there are other smart people in this world also besides you.

i agree with you the thread is totally utterly confusing and makes no sense what so ever except that time doesnt exist which after reading a hell of alot more then ive wanted to on the subject seem extremely logical and that theres some huge massive secret that when and if i ever find it will make me want to kill myself and maybe see a mib agent ?.... lol. But as i always do i will keep on looking searching and trying to find something that will give me meaning to this life cause right now there is none because life= lie i guess.

Originally posted by Amuk
People sucide because they are weak I will get flamed over this but it is the truth

Look at my sig

I truly belive it

[Edited on 8-1-2004 by Amuk]

I disagree Amuk, how much courage would it take you to actually pull the trigger, jump, etc etc ? I think much more than you will admit.

Rifleman, if it sickens you so much, why were looking at the site and its graphic pics? why did you give the link? Face it, it fascinates you!

lilblam, What are you suggesting. Spit it out or dont bother posting crap please.

Time is subjective i beleive, as a force perhaps it dosent really exist, no clocks, no time. But then memories defy that notion.

Are you suggesting that reality and perception are subjective and/or we are really a group soul? hence apparent objective reality?

What the hell are you eluding to? Your idea of "cycled evolution might explain ooparts (out of place/time artifacts) I suppose , But if your suggesting were like a computer program about to reboot??

Just stop pissing in our pockets and telling us its raining, state your "facts" and be done with it, or you'll get no further attention from folk, it gets boring playing "guess the mystery"!

Were here to learn/enjoy not pamper to a lonely kids fantasy ok.

[edit on 3-12-2004 by instar]