Suicide...For a Reason?

Originally posted by hades000
Why cant it be given?
is this some kind of "you can lead a horse to water" type thing
Just please tell me without the hints or whatever

It can't be given because you already have it.

I'll attempt to break the equation down to it's lowest common denominators. There is one truth everyone can agree on. And from this one truth you might be able to build out as I have. The one truth is death. Everyone dies.

The next logical step is "What comes after death?", if anything. If there is "life after death" then the only things people can take with them is who they are, what they know and how they interact with existence. If there is no "life after death" then nothing we do really matters. Personally, I cannot conceive of the notion of non-existence. I've thought about it but it doesn't vibe with who I am. That doesn't mean I'm right it just means that for me personally I'm going with the "life after death" because it makes more sense. It appears that a good majority of the planet believes in "life after death" or the religions wouldn't have so many followers.

Also, there is no guarantee that you nor I will live past the next minute. Death is always right around the corner. This idea, for me, gives life more meaning and weight. If this was your last hour on earth are you satisfied with what you have done? If not, what would you change? Since you don't know when death will knock at your door wouldn't it be in your best interest to facilitate those changes so you yourself feel better about your life? Do you have any regrets? I think most people don't like to think about death because it scares them. It's a known unknown.

But thinking about it will bring your attention back to yourself where it belongs. The answers are not outside of you. They are within to be unlocked by you.

It's my perception that the above is a core of truth that one can use to build on. Once you know what truth feels like then you can compare with other things that you don't know the truth of. Granted, we will probably never know the complete truth of what's happening on our planet but we can get an overview of truth that can lead us in the direction that is best for our individuality.

With the realization of death over your shoulder life takes on new meaning. And this is the core of truth I'm attempting to explain. Since your questions weren't very specific I really can't proceed further. I hope the above helps in some way. And if you have specific question please ask.

Originally posted by Otto_States
I thought about this thread a few days back and it popped back up. Meh, Karma.

Anyways, I've been interested in this ever since this thread was made. Before, I didn't even realize there was any truth. I wasn't a person who questioned much. I found that someone else I knew who had been suicidal spoke about the same things lilbam has been speaking about. I even showed him some of the posts and he said it was what had made him suicidal. I've been trying to find this truth and it's been so hard. I don't know what to look for. Anything at all can be truth. It drove me crazy the day I found out about this. I took a nap and had this dream where friends I knew and government officials were drawn on paper and came to life, just saying "Lies." over and over again. I tore up all the page and when I woke up, I was really freaked out. I think I'll just wait to find out the truth five years from now. People have told me my mind is pretty weak, so best to live out my life. However, when people tried to explain what the lie is about in here, I didn't get sad, angry, or depressed. I felt like I knew all this information before for years.

I've come to find for myself that truth resonates. And lies feel hollow. Since there is no sure fire way to tell the truth then we have to accentuate our more subtle energies and experiment. For instance, find something that someone says that you would be able to actually find the truth about later. Remember the feeling when they say it or you read it. Then go see if it's the truth. Now you have some small level of a scientific method to seek truth. It's definitely not law but after experimenting for awhile you will gain, at least, some greater knowledge of yourself. The best places to start in creating these mental tools is with the most mundane of things then work your way up.... (be sure to test things you don't already know)

"Washington D.C. is 10 square miles." Is this true? Did the statement resonate with you? Now go see if it's true and remember the first feeling you had upon reading the statement. Sorry, couldn't think of better example off the top of my head. But hopefully you get the idea.

As far as the 5 years, personally doesn't resonate with me. I can't believe specifics. It may be it may not but I don't find it as carrying any weight either way. 1 day, 5 years, a lifetime. Death will come to each of us. It's what we do in the moment that trully matters.

thanks shadow very helpful

What do you believe this after life would be like a christian heaven or are people just cycled back in to the human population or is there something else?

Originally posted by hades000
thanks shadow very helpful

What do you believe this after life would be like a christian heaven or are people just cycled back in to the human population or is there something else?

I will attempt to answer the question as logically as possible. This is, of course, based on the assumption of life after death.

First, the christian heaven. When we die we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that we don't take our bodies with us. Since this is the case what use would there be for streets of gold, crystal seas, thrones, palaces or any of the physical things mentioned in revelation? If anything, the descriptions are metaphorical. If not, then it's simply there to keep people's minds thinking about purely physical rewards.

Second, reincarnation. I've noticed a grand discrepency between individuals concerning intelligence, intuition and spirituality (amoungst other things). The following is not bragging and is simply personal evidence. In first grade they had these placement tests. I remember I scored at a 12th grade level for reading and 9th grade level for math and science. How is this possible? I certainly didn't learn 9th grade math in kindergarten. And my parent was too busy working 3 jobs so we could survive. So how did I know this stuff without being taught? Did I happen to just soak up the knowledge while eating glue and stacking blocks? I really don't know.

Lastly, something else. I've read a lot of stuff. I've read the bible all the way through. I've read exerts and stories from the other two religions, Judaism and Islam. The religions are very similar. I've also read about ever damn conspiracy theory on the net. And I've read many many metaphysical sites. I've also researched history, science and basically whatever I can find. If any of this is hinting towards life after death then it appears the heaven above this is like our dreams. Or the astral. Where our energy essense is free to move about and is above the physical we see now. Relativity, basically. Everything is relative based on the observer's position. Our position is physical on a giant rock in a seemingly infinite universe. What will our viewpoint be relative to not having body stuck to a planet? Who knows?

I suppose I personally lean towards a mix of everything. I would say that no one is completely wrong or right. But that's just my opinion.

Originally posted by Otto_States
I thought about this thread a few days back and it popped back up. Meh, Karma.

Anyways, I've been interested in this ever since this thread was made. Before, I didn't even realize there was any truth. I wasn't a person who questioned much. I found that someone else I knew who had been suicidal spoke about the same things lilbam has been speaking about. I even showed him some of the posts and he said it was what had made him suicidal. I've been trying to find this truth and it's been so hard. I don't know what to look for. Anything at all can be truth. It drove me crazy the day I found out about this. I took a nap and had this dream where friends I knew and government officials were drawn on paper and came to life, just saying "Lies." over and over again. I tore up all the page and when I woke up, I was really freaked out. I think I'll just wait to find out the truth five years from now. People have told me my mind is pretty weak, so best to live out my life. However, when people tried to explain what the lie is about in here, I didn't get sad, angry, or depressed. I felt like I knew all this information before for years.

What you come to realize is that the foundation in this trueth is what is shown to everybody in their everyday lives. Whether or not they choose to accept it or even concider it is all together up to that person.

Dont go out looking for a big conspirecy threatining the earth; start with the fundamental trueths in your surroundings: the perception of the world around you, how people act, the true motives behind the scence of things, observing different areas of life objectively to decide if there is a system and if so research it, etc.

There are many places to start and once you begin to question anything you will find another question, or perhaps form a theory, that will lead you toward more questions. But this will also lead to answers and your perception of the world around you will change.

Also as your knowledge base grows you will come to find that a large, more vivid picture of existence begins to form. It will lead you into the derection where it becomes easier to decifer between the illisions and reality; Always taking into consideration that these illusions are reality for all too many people.



Just remember to try to look at everything objectively and take anything into consideration. Dont get stuck on tying to prove something right if all evidence is pointing at wrong. But you must never all together rule out any possibilities.



The search for knowledge is a never ending process! Question everything !






[edit on 13-12-2004 by Franki]

Originally posted by ShadowHasNoSource
There appears to be quite a few judgements in the above response. Is this the ego building itself up at the expense of others?

Really, does it matter is someone decides to take their own life?

You can't be serious!? Yes, it matters if you care anything about your fellow person. Have a family member or someone you feel great love for take their life and then tell me this garbage. My respect for you is lost. That statement is disturbing to say the least. If this is how you truly think then I'm sorry for you as you are completely devoid of humanity.

Have you been appointed Godship and judgement rights on them (especially without really knowing them)? I don't want to change your viewpoint. I respect it. But it appeared your response needed some balance so that's what I've tried to give.

Please don't be ridiculous. You have misrepresented what I have stated to make your point.

My point in a nutshhell so as not to be mistaken again:

"Truth" without proof is merely an opinion no matter how obscured by sociopsychological manipulation.

What you misrepresent as my "judgement rights on them" is merely your inability to read all of the posts and "connect the dots" to see from where my statement was derived. Your "balance" therefore is uneven. Read the entire thread...read up on social engineering...then reread the manipulative posts from lilblam....I was merely pointing out conflict and manipulation. This has nothing to do with ego building (as you so cleverly barb to add strength to your view while diminishing anothers) and everything to do with pointing out someone's opinion being held out as "truth" conveniently masked with psuedo-insightful rhetoric.

Jim Jones developed a belief called Translation in which he and his followers would all die together, and would move to another planet for a life of bliss. Mass suicides were practiced in which his followers pretended to drink poison and fell to the ground.

Now, while the above is extreme, it represents an example of what happens when a false reality or opinion is held out as truth. Maybe this will help some understand my point but I fear it will also breed more obfuscation.

:bnghd: again!

[edit on 18-12-2004 by antipigopolist]

Originally posted by TheRaven
I've done several researches in my past and I have a strong belief that some people commit suicide for some unknown reason. Maybe they have uncovered a secret that was so relieving or so horrifying that they took life into their own hands. You have to have some strength, you must admit, to die.

It is an interesting issue to figure out what is behind suicide, what goes through a person's mind when he/she is about to commit it. There are several reasons to commit suicide, the most common is among those who are stressed, and find no other option, but self-destruction (either by direct suicide, or under influence of drugs, alcohol, etc). These people definately need urgent spiritual help, to find useable solutions for their life to move on. In this case, the person is not to be blamed for it, even that suicide in all cases the result of ignorance.

Collective suicide is also common nowdays, when a leader is "teaching" others to do it, starting from early young age to be ready for a particular event. Children are less aware of fear, so they can be involved in such act.

Mass destruction is one serious issue behind suicide, we got to a point where this must be stopped. Understanding these animals might be quite hard, but it just doesn't worth examining their sick mind.

Originally posted by antipigopolist

Originally posted by ShadowHasNoSource
There appears to be quite a few judgements in the above response. Is this the ego building itself up at the expense of others?

Really, does it matter is someone decides to take their own life?

You can't be serious!? Yes, it matters if you care anything about your fellow person. Have a family member or someone you feel great love for take their life and then tell me this garbage.

Ah so you don't realise that caring for another is selfish yet? Even after you gave that obvious example? Being concerned about anything is selfish, because you "worry about the outcome", because you WANT the outcome to be as you WANT it to be, and try to selfishly CHANGE it if the outcome does not PLEASE you. And to not accept reality as it is, is service to self. So it "bothers" you when something you don't WANT to happen, happens. Especially true for your attachments (family members, "friends") - you are attached to them and so they are IMPORTANT to YOU (self), so it hurts YOU (your self) if they were to "die" (be taken away from your SELF) - more selfishness, nothing else.

"Great love" in this case just means "great attachment". Would you prefer no one ever died? What's "wrong" with death? Objectively, nothing.

My respect for you is lost. That statement is disturbing to say the least. If this is how you truly think then I'm sorry for you as you are completely devoid of humanity.

Just more subjective jibberish here. No one really cares about whether you respect them or not, the point is to seek to understand what is TRUE and what is REAL, not to gain "respect" to maintain your ego, your "status quo" in the community. And so, that is meaningless, at least to me.

Disturbing is subjective, what disturbs you enlightens another. Subjectivity is illusion, and if you were truly interested in TRUTH, you'd understand that very basic fact.

What is "devoid of humanity"? "Humanity" is undefined in this case, and I see that he is simply on a level of understanding that seems to be beyond you at this time, and so your lack of understanding of what he's saying is causing your own ego-based programming to activate and begin to accuse him of subjective junk. Instead of trying to maybe understand his point of view, putting in some EFFORT to critically think and contribute to the conversation in some way, you resort to meaningless, subjective, junk.

Have you been appointed Godship and judgement rights on them (especially without really knowing them)? I don't want to change your viewpoint. I respect it. But it appeared your response needed some balance so that's what I've tried to give.

Please notice that ShadowHasNoSource respects your view point - because that is what matters, not "respecting people" because of some "quality" they possess. He respects your free will to choose any opinion you like. But seeing respect as having "admiration" for someone as an "outstanding individual" or as having "humanity" or defining someone as a "great person" - that's subjective, and so is a complete waste of time. I personally respect everyone, not because they are "great people" or are "humane", but simply I respect their free will to think anything they wish, and have no desire to control or manipulate anyone's choices in any way. I may disagree with someone, but I don't resort to subjective judgements. I am personally interested in objective reality, as things really are, not as my programming and illusions like to think they are.

Please don't be ridiculous. You have misrepresented what I have stated to make your point.

My point in a nutshhell so as not to be mistaken again:

"Truth" without proof is merely an opinion no matter how obscured by sociopsychological manipulation.

ALL truth is merely opinion, "proof" or no "proof". Anything anyone ever says is merely opinion, until you too can check and verify it and KNOW it, and so now it is your opinion too! If I say 2+2=4 it is my OPINION, the only reason it is called a "fact" is because others have understood it by their OWN EFFORT to understand, and once understood, it is now their opinion too. But anyone who does not yet understand it will only understand through personal effort to understand, through critical thought. And so it is with all things.

People are so perplexed by this "truth" thing, where to find it, etc. Don't have to go too far... a little critical thinking goes a LONG way...

And speaking of which, it is apparent that you do not really "think", you are under the impression that you do, as most people are, but the thoughts are not yours, they are programmed, they are fully controlled, and you are not aware of it, in fact, you are in complete denial. Don't worry, you're by far not alone. As I mentioned already, we are conditioned NOT to think since birth, but to think that we do, to maintain an effective illusion. We're ASLEEP, and most often even those who realise they are asleep and are waking up from the illusion, are only entering yet another dream, another illusion, carefully created and maintained just for those who think they are awakening. The problem is not waking up, because we can be shocked into awakening, the problem is remaining awake - because we have a strong tendency to fall right back asleep, unknowingly, but to continue telling ourselves that we're now "waking up".

Think of all those New Agers, who think they "woke up" from mainstream religion to discover some "truth". They were gently put back to sleep by more disinformation, by more lies designed just for such people who manage to break out of one box and suddenly think they found "the truth". Ironic...

What you misrepresent as my "judgement rights on them" is merely your inability to read all of the posts and "connect the dots" to see from where my statement was derived. Your "balance" therefore is uneven. Read the entire thread...read up on social engineering...then reread the manipulative posts from lilblam....I was merely pointing out conflict and manipulation. This has nothing to do with ego building (as you so cleverly barb to add strength to your view while diminishing anothers) and everything to do with pointing out someone's opinion being held out as "truth" conveniently masked with psuedo-insightful rhetoric.

Pseudo-insightful eh? Insightful but... not so much?

Yet, it has a lot to do with ego building. Your very mention of "respecting someone as a person" suggests just how much your ego is involved in what you say, and that suggestion is not subtle at all! Not even pseudo-subtle!

Jim Jones developed a belief called Translation in which he and his followers would all die together, and would move to another planet for a life of bliss. Mass suicides were practiced in which his followers pretended to drink poison and fell to the ground.

Now, while the above is extreme, it represents an example of what happens when a false reality or opinion is held out as truth. Maybe this will help some understand my point but I fear it will also breed more obfuscation.

:bnghd: again!

[edit on 18-12-2004 by antipigopolist]

Yes but what makes this reality "false"? That's important - how one can arrive at the conclusion that this opinion is indeed false. And that is not so obvious or easy to do, especially concerning anything that has to do with "after death" and the programming that this calls up in the minds of people who try to think about it. You know that programming - the program that tells you "Ah well if humanity hasn't figured all this out in thousands of years, what chance do YOU have?" which discourages any serious effort to figure it the truth of it. That's one of many programs anyway.

First, it is an assumption, as all beliefs are. Second, bliss is subjective - what is "heaven" to one is "hell" to another. If you acquire enough crack coc aine to last you a lifetime (well until you overdose and die or something), THIS planet may be bliss too! But bliss on what level? There are many parts to ourselves that desire many different things. One wants sex. Another wants money and material stuff. Another wants to be with family. Another wants world peace. Another wants to understand the truth of everything. Another prefers "blissful ignorance" and creates its own reality out of illusion. Another... etc.

Satisfying one may create "bliss" on that level, which may even permeate the whole beinf if you ignore all the other parts for a time. But then they get your attention again, and you realise that's not "good enough" so you try something else. This is an onoing thing, it never stops, because there is no limit to things that make you feel "good" on one level or another, and no limit to things that can make you feel "bad" on some level. In fact, satisfying one often deprives another.

Case in point: Finding the truth about our reality shatters our illusions and beliefs, and it HURTS - because we are so attached to those beliefs, it really hurts. But only for that one part that prefers illusion! Because on ANOTHER LEVEL you feel total joy, you are extremely happy, because that part of you is happy to lose yet another illusion and gain insight into objective reality, even if that reality is uncomfortable!

And so, bliss can never be fully achieved "outside" of yourself, by going to another planet, or doing anything at all, it will always be only temporary, and only partial - as it deprives another part of you of what it wants, and often those parts are contradictory so you cannot satisfy both. Bliss (let's call it happiness) is achieved only within, when one accepts everything as it is, without judgement or desire to change it. There will ALWAYS be death, suffering, pain, chaos, major changes, ignorance, lies, manipulation, etc. The universe is comprised of everything that could ever possibly exist. Constantly trying to find that "thing" to make you happy, be it "love" (another grand illusion that we tell ourselves), or "money", or "fame", or "sex", or "food", or whatever, will simply never succeed - we will forever keep trying, and our "happiness" will always be temporary and partial as a result.

Why do I keep saying truth cannot be given? Well data can be given. Information can be given. But the only way to KNOW anything is to apply it, to verify it, to critically think about it, to see it work, to UNDERSTAND it to the core of your being. So you have that "eureka!" moment of realisation and understanding, where something turns from just information data into Knowledge with a capital 'K', which adds substance to your BEing, your soul, your consciousness, and you grow as a result.

But then, a lot of data simply cannot be given. It must be observed, it must be experienced, and the accumulation of all the experiences then combined and structured and analyzed in your mind, to create some "coherent whole", to connect the dots and see where it leads. Like the idea that America is turning into a Nazi-like fascist dictatorship. This is as plain as daylight to those who can SEE it, and it is vehemently denied by those who don't, who prefer comfortable illusion and "stability" of their own preferred world view, rather than to face a possible uncomfortable TRUTH that can shatter their cherished beliefs about themselves and their "beloved country". But why can some SEE it and some cannot? How can those who see it "prove it" to those who don't? If you could really "prove" it, would there still be people who don't see it? Like in the beginnings of Nazi Germany, you couldn't exactly prove that Germany, in only a few years, would go from a democracy to a totalitarian police state. It was never ever obvious, it took some serious observation and thinking and connecting the dots to SEE it before it happened. Those who did "got the hell out" of the country, knowing what's coming, but unable to prove it to those who are blind.

The US economy is on the verge of a total collapse, very soon, and once again, you either SEE it or you don't. There are many factors that are involved in such matters, the "puzzle pieces" exist in many different areas, that may even be related to one another in some abstract and not-obvious way, and only when all the pieces are present do you begin to make sense of the puzzle, of the entire picture.

And THIS is the "nature" of many very important truths - the truths can only be discerned after many of the puzzle pieces are acquired by the seeker and connected, many of those puzzle pieces ONLY FOUND after CRITICAL THOUGHT, and do not exist anywhere outside of your own mind. The mind, after all, is our tool for "reasoning", for "figuring out reality and how it works" - and it can also be our tool for "creating illusions" to immerse ourselves in.

The data, the information, it all exists and is available to the public. The KNOWLEDGE, and the UNDERSTANDING, that is personal, that is only acquired through connection of many dots and once again, CRITICAL THOUGHT and ANALYSIS of ALL THE DATA and INFORMATION. Understanding the nature of ourselves and our reality ONLY comes from much effort on our part to figure it out, to understand it, to know it.

Like that simple example above, where I mentioned that "concern for another" is selfish (and so is concern for yourself). Empathy (ability to feel what someone else is feeling) and sympathy (pity, judgement that their situation is somehow "bad" and needs to be changed) are not the same thing! Either way, I tried my best to explain it, but those who are seeking to know already have those understandings, and those who aren't seeking, will not "get" it and will think it's absurd and many "denial" programs will activate right away. So yeah, once again, truth just cannot be "given" to anyone, it must be FOUND through effort and seeking and "thinking with a hammer" - and if you're looking for it, you WILL find it! Most people aren't looking, and many tell themselves they are, but are still not.

And it takes time and effort to remove those pesky programs and conditioning that interferes with our thinking, that render us unable to truly THINK, unable to perceive reality as it is. Because how can you "connect pieces of the puzzle", those pieces that you must acquire from observation, when what you observe is skewed by your own programming, filtered through and turns into something else entirely by the time it reaches your mind? Which is why we need to LEARN to see first, by doing what is called "The Work on self" - constant self-observation and constant effort to find and remove our programs, which make us "mechanical" beings not in control of our own minds. It's not done overnight, and the more one does this, the more significant this work becomes, and the more "clear" it becomes just how programmed and blind we truly are.

Hope that helps.

-Mike

[edit on 27-12-2004 by lilblam]

Well written Lilblam. I have had the same experience that you discuss throughout this topic. A truely horrifying realization.

Originally posted by lilblam
"Ah so you don't realise that caring for another is selfish yet? Even after you gave that obvious example? Being concerned about anything is selfish"

Caring for someone's life, whether it be the act of trying to help someone who thinks life is not worth living or lending aid so that a few children might be fed and clothed this year, is not "selfish" or "service to self". To hide behind this way of thought is a defense mechanism. Look for a new "teacher" beyond Laura to find some balance to your reality. But I suspect it's too late as you are now trolling for converts. You profess contemplating suicide to gain the trust of fellow posters and then go for the kill preaching theoretical physics of which you have little or no grasp of (admittedly so) and blinding the vulnerable with social engineering. I know your kind all too well. But to the uninitiated and young seekers, your exhaustive mostly "say nothing" and 'twisting of reality' posts may appear plausible and not that of a "peddler selling snake oil'.

Do all of us "controlled", 3rd dimensional beings (who couldn't possibly no any better) a favor:

Have your "friends" help you speed up the "transition" to that fourth dimension you are so attached to. That would be a "service to self" suggestion! Unless you have evidence or proof beyond hearsay and rhetoric, stick to linear aspects of melody and bass lines. Real world principles of coherence and continuity within physics is beyond you. The truth you profess is baseless.

[edit on 31-12-2004 by antipigopolist]

As time was short earlier, let me just clarify so that my view cannot be manipulated by you, lilblam "the artful dodger", with further pretense.

It's easy to see that you feed your "ego and Service-to-Self" tendencies by sitting silent hoping to hide the fact from all that you're just parroting this site (pretty much verbatim). After all...if you gave credit to the original, you would most likely lose credibility which you seem to desire as evidenced by your continued veiled hawking of the cassiopaean site (STS). Not to mention your need to refute any point not within this narrow view. Beyond this...most people are easy to fool if manipulated properly and it's an easy guess that most will not research deep into a subject if they assume someone of holds specific knowlege and will entertain them. It's based on a common "need to believe" exploit masked by a proclamation of "you have to find the truth for yourself" or "I don't care if you believe me...I know". I will refrain from capitalizing words to emphasize my points. The members here are smart enough to figure out where the point lies, lilblam. (You even went as far as to steal that ism from Laura...are you sure you're not an imposter...if I were of a suspicious nature, I'd guess you to be Laura trolling for pupils)

You seem to have some difficulty understanding STS and STO concepts and a need as well, to redefine words to suit your points of contention so let's spell it out for you. Might want to take a basic English class or get a refund from that college you attend.

Selfish: 'selfish
Definition: [adj] �concerned chiefly or only with yourself

Selfless: 'selflis
Definition: [adj] �showing unselfish concern for the welfare of others

Caring: 'kehreeng
Definition: [adj] �feeling and exhibiting concern and empathy for others; "caring friends"

I'm sorry to be so hard on you lilblam but you are so credulous and unwaivering on an intellectual level. You scream from the highest hills to search for truth, which anyone knows is a never-ending pursuit, and yet you resign yourself to one thought...that you have found all there is to know from one website basing all of it's logic on the hypothetical with no evidence of a knowing factual commonality. Purely someone else's belief that you have claimed as your own. Right or wrong is for none of us to say (even though we have all made the mistake of trying) but it's sad to think that it consumes one who is obviously bright enough to know the difference between objectivity and subjectivity. And yet you decry others of not knowing with self-righteous indignation. Again...you make an easy target. Just more contradiction from you and further blah blah STS blah blah drama.

You also state that what really bothers you is...

the absolute ignorance of people, how "truth" doesn't interest them at all. They only care about fun, movies, parties, sex, dating, videogames, reality shows, the latest computers, sports (big one...)... etc

and...

Constantly trying to find that "thing" to make you happy, be it "love" (another grand illusion that we tell ourselves), or "money", or "fame", or "sex", or "food", or whatever, will simply never succeed - we will forever keep trying, and our "happiness" will always be temporary and partial as a result.

For someone that thinks I spout subjective gibberish this is certainly "calling the kettle black"! This is so narrow in scope and such subjective bull#e that it falls squarely in the absurd. Some people need escapism to get them through. Some choose not to pursue anything outside of their immediate vicinity. Nothing right or wrong about people choosing their own comfort level. And others still are afraid or lazy and simply choose not to see. Why does lilblam care so much? Caring is just STS by your own definition and yet you allow this to 'hang over your head like a rock' as you put it. You run around in circles making point after point and obscuring it all in verbiage (overabundance of words sometimes used to overwhelm the reader into acceptance of viewpoint through careful obfuscation i.e. John Cochran and the O.J. trial) to an end rife with hypocrisy. But most will not research your views or previous post thoroughly and simply go on gut feeling or some point they can interrelate or identify with. Hence my artful dodger tag. There in lies the crux as most will abandon sensibility and blindly follow if disinfo, presented logically, is repeated often enough. Even the fence sitters here know that.

But to get to the quotes above...only a hint of Service-to-Others, by your view, do humans act, if at all. You completely ignore a good majority that perform selfless acts daily and opt instead to classify them as an ego-maniacal ignorant mass that only seek pleasure from the act of charity or other helpful means to satisfy some sort of hedonic trait you've seen fit to diagnose at a panoptic level. Please....you are too narrow of mind apparently to grasp the true meaning of service to others and hide behind another's definition that suits your view. You must have had a terrible experience to think so poorly of your fellow person. Why are you so attached to this nihilistic philosophy? You've been preaching it for what...a year now? Sorry if you've had a hard life but don't try to convince people that your reality of STS and STO is the the only reality because I can assure you, that it is not. Doctors without borders, peace corps volunteers, etc. You believe this because you choose not to focus 20/20. Maybe if you tried to find the positive for a change and truely search for all truths your life might take a turn for the better. Or maybe try to build on your proficiency in the art of music? It would fulfill both the STS and STO need within you...a good blend. Ahhh...mathematics made audible. Maybe you could, through effort, find originality within yourself rather than performing covers of another's logic. Balance, lilblam...and General Principles of Harmony. I am tryin to help but you make it awfully difficult. I don't mind tryin, either way...it does not effect me as you surmise. But you'll just think me STS. Oh well...The search is not finite and nothing is as "Black and White" as you would have others believe. Your not as open minded as you wish to appear. Sorry...but that's my observation.

Anyway...here's a novel idea...

Back on Topic:
To answer your question, Raven. I would think one would need some level of courage, if not polluted by dillusion or emotional issues, to take his or her life. But dillusion/suffering usually go hand in hand with that specific event. I guess it's all in one's own view of the action. I wonder what would be more difficult? Getting to the end of it all only to find no afterlife or reincarnated having to face the rest of my existence here working some 9-5 for the ptb while being fed upon by the Cassiopaeans.


[edit on 31-12-2004 by antipigopolist]

Originally posted by antipigopolist
But most will not research your views or previous post thoroughly and simply go on gut feeling or some point they can interrelate or identify with. Hence my artful dodger tag. There in lies the crux as most will abandon sensibility and blindly follow if disinfo, presented logically, is repeated often enough. Even the fence sitters here know that.

And by "most" I mean those posting to this thread. Those of us that have frequented conspiracy site for the last 8 years or so have seen this "lack of research" and "blind acceptance due to resonance" very often. Why do you think there is little response from senior members here on this thread? Reading the first couple of pages from this thread again is an obvious clue. Very reminiscent of "John Titor"/"Aussie Bloke" postings.

[edit on 31-12-2004 by antipigopolist]

I am revisiting this thread for a reason.

People talk about how people kill themselves because it hurts too much to go on and I wish to address that for any that might think along those lines.

For the past few years I have had extreme and continuous pain. It will never go away and will never get better, as a matter of fact it grows worse by the day and just today I got even more bad news.

To say the thought has never crossed my mind would be a BIG lie, but to those thinking about it I have something to say.

This is not all about you.

Everyones life is a web of duties and responsibilities to other people, Family, Work, Friends, Community, etc. Some times you are just a bit player in your own life. While your life has meaning your death should also have meaning. Should you show your children/family its OK to leave them to fend for themselves because you cant get out of a chair anymore or because your wife/girlfriend left you? Prove to the world that you are a coward that only thinks of his own pain and not the effect his cowardliness would have on others?

Is your suffering the only thing that counts? Does theirs mean nothing to you? How about showing them one last lesson? That a man never gives up and they mean enough to you to stay in spite of the pain.

Their feelings ARE more important than yours.



[edit on 3-1-2005 by Amuk]

Originally posted by Amuk
I am revisiting this thread for a reason.

People talk about how people kill themselves because it hurts too much to go on and I wish to address that for any that might think along those lines.

For the past few years I have had extreme and continuous pain. It will never go away and will never get better, as a matter of fact it grows worse by the day and just today I got even more bad news.

To say the thought has never crossed my mind would be a BIG lie, but to those thinking about it I have something to say.

This is not all about you.

Everyones life is a web of duties and responsibilities to other people, Family, Work, Friends, Community, etc. Some times you are just a bit player in your own life. While your life has meaning your death should also have meaning. Should you show your children/family its OK to leave them to fend for themselves because you cant get out of a chair anymore or because your wife/girlfriend left you? Prove to the world that you are a coward that only thinks of his own pain and not the effect his cowardliness would have on others?

Is your suffering the only thing that counts? Does theirs mean nothing to you? How about showing them one last lesson? That a man never gives up and they mean enough to you to stay in spite of the pain.

Their feelings ARE more important than yours.

So incredibly well said it needed to be posted again.

Originally posted by antipigopolist

Originally posted by lilblam
"Ah so you don't realise that caring for another is selfish yet? Even after you gave that obvious example? Being concerned about anything is selfish"

Caring for someone's life, whether it be the act of trying to help someone who thinks life is not worth living or lending aid so that a few children might be fed and clothed this year, is not "selfish" or "service to self".

Well, would you agree that desire is a selfish thing? I mean to WANT anything, is to seek to manipulate/change what already is, because for one reason or another, you do not accept it as it is, and wish that it were changed, as it would make you somehow more "satisfied" then? Is not concern for another a DESIRE to change their situation to one that is more "suitable" as you perceive it? The difference between empathy and sympathy may not be obvious, but it's a profound difference. Empathy is just ability to feel another's pain, to "put yourself in another's shoes" and understand the experiences someone is going through on many levels, not just intellectually. But sympathy is different, it is pity - casting judgement on the situation and having the urge to CHANGE it because the situation "bothers" you.

I did not say helping someone is selfish, I said "caring" is selfish - the concern itself is equivalent to desire to CHANGE what IS, because it pains YOU to accept it, even if that pain is just empathy of another's pain. Love is the same way only it's "positive" - you GIVE to someone you love because it makes YOU feel good to do this, as you are attached to them, it makes you HAPPY to see them happy, so this "giving" is actually selfish in intent, it is designed to make YOU happy because you're giving to someone you're attached to. It would not be selfish if you simply gave to ALL equally, without preference - but the preference (choosing someone specifically because you happen to love THEM more than someone else) is what makes the action selfish. The intent is to please yourself then, even though the immediate action is "giving".

Same as, when people's close family are in trouble they usually try to help them more than a stranger - because they CARE about the "close" family, meaning, they are attached to them, it matters to YOU because it pains YOU to see your close attachment hurt - it does not pain you as much to see a stranger hurt! Why do you think people are so "defensive" of their "lovers" - it's the care/concern of course! And it is very much selfish!

And empathy is just that, it does not seek to CHANGE the situation no matter how painful, it just allows you to experience it remotely - SYMPATHY is the selfish aspect that urges you to CHANGE the situation, to SAVE something because it matters to YOU personally, and the situation is painful to YOU! I just cannot put it any other way, if this reasoning is still "junk" to you, so be it.

To hide behind this way of thought is a defense mechanism. Look for a new "teacher" beyond Laura to find some balance to your reality.

Sorry I arrived at that through critical thinking, not through any "teacher". We're all teachers and we're all students here, there are no official designations, though some simply know more than others by virtue of their OWN efforts at seeking that knowledge.

But I suspect it's too late as you are now trolling for converts.

Converts from what to what!? Is there a problem with encouraging personal research and critical thinking, and encouraging verification/double-checking of EVERYTHING instead of taking anything on faith? I have no "religion" or "set of beliefs" or dogmas for anyone to convert to.

You profess contemplating suicide to gain the trust of fellow posters and then go for the kill preaching theoretical physics of which you have little or no grasp of (admittedly so) and blinding the vulnerable with social engineering. I know your kind all too well. But to the uninitiated and young seekers, your exhaustive mostly "say nothing" and 'twisting of reality' posts may appear plausible and not that of a "peddler selling snake oil'.

Do all of us "controlled", 3rd dimensional beings (who couldn't possibly no any better) a favor:

Have your "friends" help you speed up the "transition" to that fourth dimension you are so attached to.

At no point did I indicate any attachment or care for 4th density (not dimention). What does interest me, however, is the truth. And I don't think you have any authority to tell me what to do, nor do you speak for everyone - though here is yet another example where you ARE speaking through your ego, because you are simply trying to "tell me what to do" since you don't like the things I say, yet you accuse ME of what you yourself are doing. Seems like you're projecting what you are doing onto me, blaming me for things you yourself are guilty of. Making things up completely (like claiming I'm attached to some 4th dimention without ANY basis) and then ordering me to "do you all a favor" and "go away" to 4th dimention. That is an ego-based statement, as it serves only the ego to profess authority over someone else, and preserve its own "greatness" by pretending to speak for EVERYONE and then telling me to essentially "go away to 4th dimention with my friends", because it will obviously be a "favor" to EVERYBODY! This, coupled with the statement that you lost "respect" for ShadowHasNoSource because he does not think the same way as you (and in this case respect suggests subjective JUDGEMENT, an attempt to decide if someone is worse than you) suggests that you indeed are speaking from your ego (and ego is all about gaining "respect" for yourself, for an extreme example of this to make it more clear, look at how the Mafia works, it's ALL about "respect" there), and yet you accuse me of speaking through my ego, once again, without any basis! Also, could you explain what preaching about theoretical physics means? To cut short the metaphors, are you accusing me of lying, because I truly have no idea what a "peddler selling snake oil" is! What makes you assume I did NOT contemplate suicide?

It's easy to see that you feed your "ego and Service-to-Self" tendencies by sitting silent hoping to hide the fact from all that you're just parroting this site (pretty much verbatim).

What do you mean by "sitting silently" - I do not spend all my time checking this post, I have other things to do as well. Or are you now setting a time limit for me to respond, before I am accused of "intentionally sitting silent hoping to hide something"? The idea that I'm "parroting" something is untrue in and of itself (the devil is in the details, the word "parroting" can be easily used to describe anyone who is doing anything that corresponds to something someone else has already said or done for any reason). If what I say corresponds to that website it is only because I agree with many conclusions of the authors of that website, not because I simply paraphrase the website because I feel like it. With just as much meaning I could say you're parroting the English dictionary because you use the same words that are located in the dictionary! Or anyone now who is working on the Theory of Relativity MUST be simply parroting Einstein! Or any teacher that teaches anything in college must simply be parroting the person who discovered the subject first!

Caring: 'kehreeng
Definition: [adj] feeling and exhibiting concern and empathy for others; "caring friends"

See the word "friends"? Why did it not say "caring strangers"? Because caring is selfish - you care only when it concerns YOU, and the closer you are to someone, the more chance that you will CARE about their well-being, as it hurts YOU to see them be in pain, since you are so attached. If it's a stranger, you may certainly care as well, simply because you may have empathy (not attachment though), and so you resort to "pity" and desire to change the situation to suit yourself better, to avoid your own pain from yor own empathy of witnessing the situation. It's just greatly enhanced with those we're attached to, but the fundemental idea of "concern" and "care" remains - it is still about YOU and what matters to YOU, what concerns YOU.

You scream from the highest hills to search for truth, which anyone knows is a never-ending pursuit, and yet you resign yourself to one thought...that you have found all there is to know from one website basing all of it's logic on the hypothetical with no evidence of a knowing factual commonality.

Truth IS a never-ending pursuit, not everyone knows that though, and in fact, many people seem to think it's some "single mystical thing" that once found (also in some unpredictably mystical way!) "completes" them somehow, or that there is a limit to it all, and one can somehow achieve something they perceive as "perfection" (a self-set limit). I have never said I found "all there is to know", and the website (cassiopaea.org) simply does a much better job (in my opinion) than any other source I've ever seen of connecting the dots to understand the reality in which we all reside, as it takes a multi-disciplinary approach, and does not limit itself to any "topic" or "subject", and tries to understand how it ALL fits, without obsessing/attaching to anything, and constantly being open to be wrong if new data is found that does not fit.

Purely someone else's belief that you have claimed as your own. Right or wrong is for none of us to say (even though we have all made the mistake of trying) but it's sad to think that it consumes one who is obviously bright enough to know the difference between objectivity and subjectivity. And yet you decry others of not knowing with self-righteous indignation. Again...you make an easy target. Just more contradiction from you and further blah blah STS blah blah drama.

I make an easy target? I thought we were having a discussion, I didn't know I was your target! I do not "decry" (condemn) anyone - I try to point out what I SEE, with no judgement - personally I do not "target" people, I do not "attack" anyone, I do not seek to argue, nor do I seek to prove anything to anyone. I have no desire to be right just for the sake of being right - though most people do, as it is a very common program.

You also state that what really bothers you is...

the absolute ignorance of people, how "truth" doesn't interest them at all. They only care about fun, movies, parties, sex, dating, videogames, reality shows, the latest computers, sports (big one...)... etc

and...

Constantly trying to find that "thing" to make you happy, be it "love" (another grand illusion that we tell ourselves), or "money", or "fame", or "sex", or "food", or whatever, will simply never succeed - we will forever keep trying, and our "happiness" will always be temporary and partial as a result.

In the first quote you quoted, I was a bit emotional, but either way, I did not profess to make a judgement whether this is "wrong" or "right", just simply express my dissatisfaction with being forced to live in a place so materialistic and selfish. The 2nd quote, to give it context which it is lacking, is where I was attempting to say that happiness is never found outside of yourself by trying to satisfy yourself with desires, but found only after you "let go" of all those desires for self-gratification (obviously there are infinity of possibilities for these desires, I just listed some popular examples), and accept reality as it is without judgement or desire to change it. But even you maybe will agree that humans are mostly driven by 2 main "drives": fear, and the seeking of pleasure (be it sex, food, attachments, whatever). Most of what we do is a result of these things, and as a result, we are what we are. And we try to find "happiness" by satisfying our urges, fulfilling our dreams/desires which are constantly changing, and constantly adopt a new idea of what "real happiness" is (and each time it's just a new goal to create gratification of yet another part of ourselves). And what I was merely trying to point out is the futility of such, that it will never create "lasting happiness" but only temporary satisfaction, until the next "urge" comes around and makes us unhappy again and in need of fulfilling it.

These things are not so "subjective" as they are pretty well-defined (the examples I listed of popular "wants"). I never claimed they were true for EVERYONE. I also never said I was STO - so "caring" is not exactly "beyond" me. It does bother me to see someone suffering and in pain, even if sometimes they have it coming to them and it's an important lesson for them to learn, yet I still have the urge to interfere and relieve them of the pain, just because it bothers me, because I allow myself to pity them (sometimes). And I'm sure there are those that read what I write (my verbiage as you say) and will simply believe it becasue they are so "overwhelmed" by it. I have no control here, anyone can believe anything they wish. All I can do is suggest that NO ONE believe a single word I say here, if you are interested in TRUTH - but you're not, then feel free to believe away. Anything and everything I say CAN be verified, and if you cannot, then I don't suggest believing me or making any assumptions one way or another, until you find a way to verify what I say. I probably should reiterate this point more often, as it may be too easy to get lost in "overwhelming verbiage" and end up believing things you "identify" with because it just somehow "sounds right". Well, religion "sounded right" to the faithfully religious too, but that doesn't make it true.

I try not to think "poorly" of my fellow person, I try not to think "well" of him either - because both are judgements and would be subjective. I try to see myself and everyone else for who we truly are, OBJECTIVELY, without the cloud of wishful thinking that only allows you to see what you want to see, and ignore all that you do not desire to know. I am a musician by "trade", I play jazz piano in restaurants around the area I live. Though I don't read music, I play by ear. You say you're trying to help me but I make it hard - but my question is, why are you trying to help me if I'm not asking you to? I know you may be tired of hearing this, but trying to help someone who's not asking for it IS selfish, as you'd be doing it for your OWN reasons, because you decided FOR the person that they need to be helped. Can you not see that? Help is subjective, what you perceive as help may be perceived as harm by someone else. You cannot make the judgement of what is best for someone FOR someone else, each can only decide this for themselves. So trying to help someone who's not asking you to help them means trying to change them in some way, to control them, because you perceive that they are in need of "changing", that their way of existance is somehow "wrong" and must be "helped" to make it what you perceive to be "better" or "right".

For a humorous approach to the same issue, watch "The Incredibles". Mr Incredible (the superhero) was sued for saving someone's life, because while Mr. Incredible thought he "helped" someone or "saved their life", the "victim" saw it as "ruining his death" - as interference with his free will, with his choice. And despite this humorous approach, the greater reality is still there - that giving to someone who is not asking you is equivalent to TAKING from them, taking their free will to CHOOSE, deciding what they need FOR them, and acting on YOUR own desires to help, even if you excuse it as "for their own good". Like Hitler may think that ridding the world of Jews is doing the world a favor, as helping the world and doing a GOOD thing for everyone, though others may disagree - once again, an extreme example of someone trying to decide what's "best" for someone or a group of people, but once again, it is the same thing in more extreme form (extreme examples often help you clearly see the subtle dynamics playing out in every-day-life which may not be so obvious in and of themselves).

I won't "think" YOU STS - you, me, and everyone else on the planet are STS, period. Those "selfless" people around the world are often doing precisely what you and many others are doing - deciding the needs of others, helping when not asked, or helping those who ask just because they feel pity for them (passing subjective judgement on how "bad" someone else has it, so he must obviously be elevated to what you perceive as a "good" situation). The devil is in the details, and sometimes our own ignorance causes us to cause more harm to someone while thinking we're helping them. And that is entropy - reacting on impulse, reacting to our "pity" without much thought or understanding of the context of the situation, and ending up fooling ourselves into thinking we truly helped someone. The devil is, once again, in the details.

[edit on 6-1-2005 by lilblam]

I'm coming late into this topic and I havnt read 11 pages of replies either but to reply to the original question of `suicide for a reason` i can say that in my experience reasons for attempting suicide are not thought about, it is brought about by depression and is a spur of the moment thing, where someone has a momentarily lapse of all rational thought and reason and thinks that at that point in time there is no other option available to them. Suicide is quite a selfish act where you dont even consider the people you may leave behind or what the repercussions may be on their lives, maybe in some cases people need a reason a death of a loved one perhaps or some debilitating illness that may spur them on to it, I dont believe that though, I believe it all comes from depression...but that is just my opinion

[edit on 6/1/05 by Magenta]

Originally posted by Magenta
I'm coming late into this topic and I havnt read 11 pages of replies either but to reply to the original question of `suicide for a reason` i can say that in my experience reasons for attempting suicide are not thought about, it is brought about by depression and is a spur of the moment thing, where someone has a momentarily lapse of all rational thought and reason and thinks that at that point in time there is no other option available to them. Suicide is quite a selfish act where you dont even consider the people you may leave behind or what the repercussions may be on their lives, maybe in some cases people need a reason a death of a loved one perhaps or some debilitating illness that may spur them on to it, I dont believe that though, I believe it all comes from depression...but that is just my opinion

[edit on 6/1/05 by Magenta]

Well, I've seen a few examples of suicide that did not come from depression, like a guy who shot himself when he lost a lot of money because the stock market crashed (in fact, if you look up the "Great Depression", you may find many such cases). Ironically, the whole time period is called a "depression", though many people killed themselves because they lost their great attachments (like money, other material things), and self-gratification through those things was their whole reason for living. Just like many people in the tsunami disaster may lose their will to live now, because they may have lost their children, or families - or everything they had, and are now alone. These are the moments when people often contemplate suicide (not necessarily commit), but the thought often crosses your mind, when everything appears to be going "wrong" in life, all is being "taken" from you, etc.

Also, as you may know (from shows like ER, movies, but also real life) that sometimes when 2 people get into a car accident and only one of them survives and is a close relation to the other one, he may not be told about the death of the other person until he gets well himself. This is a "precaution" doctors sometimes take because the person, in his weak state, may simply "give up on life", which is equivalent to committing suicide only from the inside not from external means of self-damaging, since you can die just by losing the will to live sometimes, if you're injured enough. And in all suicides, the first thing that comes BEFORE you take "steps" to kill yourself, is the loss of will to live. Unless it's an accident that is.

Suicide can be selfish, though that's not so black and white in my opinion, because many people who kill themselves think "They're all better off without me anyway" - so in their mind it's a selfless act of "liberating" all those people that have been (as the person perceives) "burdened" with the person's existance. It's hard to say to what extent the person (committing suicide) is mistaken, if at all - sometimes some people can indeed be "burdens" to others, like someone unable to take care of themselves for one reason or another and relies on others for survival. However, the person taking care of them does not always perceive it as a "burden" - because all burdens ARE choices, no one takes care of someone else without CHOOSING to do it, even if that choice is "forced" because of great attachment to the person who needs to be taken care of for survival. The devil is indeed in the details, it's not quite so black and white.

But another question one may ask is, does suicide equal to killing yourself in ALL cases? For example, would self sacrifice so that someone else could live be considered suicide (like donating an organ that ends up with your death, or jumping in front of a bullet).

Also, a lot of people who argue that suicide is selfish bring up the people we're close to, and how we will "hurt" them emotionally and otherwise, because of their great attachment to us, which will be broken when you commit suicide. Well, in my understanding, (and this is not strictly about suicide), sometimes you have to DO certain things that end up hurting those who "love" you, in order to get somewhere in life and to be of some use to humanity and the universe at large, or otherwise you'll forever be stuck in that relationship because you're afraid of hurting the other person's "feelings", even if you no longer desire to maintain the relationship and find it destructive to your other goals. Sometimes the relationship is such that it prevents one or both of the people in it from achieving what they could otherwise achieve (in terms of knowledge, or other things they can DO in life that may be greater than their own attachment), because the other partner simply does not ACCEPT the choices of his "loved one" and selfishly desires that he "stays the same". And this doesn't have to be any "abusive" relationship, it could be just maintaining control of your partner because of your attachment to him, so in his fear to hurt YOU and to break that attachment, he is unable to progress his own being, because often that progress/advancement of self eventually means that the person loses the desire to maintain the attachment, it no longer is "attractive", he may now have other motivations to live, though his partner remains the same and greatly attached to the person, and would be hurt of the person chose to break that attachment.

But this is also related to suicide, because although suicide leaves all your relationships and attachments broken, it still does not violate anyone's free will - it is their CHOICE to "hurt" when they lose their attachment, as it was their choice to be attached in the first place (or rather, they could choose not to hurt, but often submit to the reactionary pain from loss of attachment).

If one is to consider both sides, it is selfish to attach yourself to others in the first place. But just because something HURTS someone else does not make the action selfish - if I choose to help someone who is the enemy of my "friend", my friend may be "deepy hurt" and "betrayed", but it's his choice - what if I don't accept the idea of having "enemies", and help ALL who ask? So despite my friend's feelings of betrayal and so forth, it does not mean my action is selfish simply because of that. And same goes for suicide, it's a choice, like any other choice, and although it may end up hurting a lot of people indirectly (through their attachment to you), it does not mean that the action is selfish in and of itself. The intentions for the action can be selfish, but it is the intentions that determine how selfish something is, not the action itself, osit.

But I agree that suicide is most often selfish.

All thoughts welcome


[edit on 6-1-2005 by lilblam]

I have skimmed through your very repetitive "lesson" on the "LIES" and "TRUTH", and I have found it rather intriguing. No doubt in my mind that you have a very strong "TRUTH". But one truth, no matter how true it is, Is always a lie to another. Human Nature is one illusion you obviously cannot see past. Your subconcious still lusts for man's approval. You posted a thread on a website beacuse you wanted to be a teacher of a great mystery. A modern day internet Siddartha who guides people into enlightenment. You really love the attention. But your attemps are obviously not well thought out. You end up getting more ridicule because your truth is your own lie. THE GREATEST DECIEVER OF A PERSON IS THAT PERSON. Not the government or aliens or god or superior beings watchign a hologram so they can get off. Were in a humungous universal cartoon and in 5 years it goes off air. We are all pixels on gods television. Time for Universe Episode 2 or 1 million. Who cares, you obviously dont have a grip on reality. Hy concern your self with things that you can truelly have no affect on. I mean if they control the whole universe than why ponder on them. They will always control you, get over it and enjoy life while you can. You have a wonderful understanding of liblama reality. Congratulations! But seriously you need to stop leading people on with this nonsence and realise that you are no different that any of us. You are just another dillusional guy with a ingeneous theory. If it were true i think youd probably be terminated in case of an information leak. The Scawy Superior beings would blow you away with a lightning bolt. Why tease when it goes unanswered. You have created a greater illusion for everyone who has waisted time reading your posts. You say one must want to know the the truth but you either do not know it your self or "know" and wont tell because you "know" its not the "TRUTH". So you've read a lot of books about the one ness of the universe or a multiverse of infiniti. Sure I think any intelectual mind has concieved this infinite universe or the idea of eternal illusion but obviously none have dwelt on it so much. Please just shut up, I dont know a bout anyone else but youve waisted about 3 hours of time on this post. Guess im the idiot for reading. All I know is i'd rather be a "sheeple" than a paranoid lifeless theorist in his own little religion. In closing I respect that you think for yourself but must you share the nonsence with everyone only to irritate.

Originally posted by Halcy0n
But one truth, no matter how true it is, Is always a lie to another.

Not if it's referring to objective reality - what you're describing is "subjective truths", like passing a subjective judgement on an event - but subjectivity is irrelevant, it is objectivity that I'm interested in - reality that we ALL share whether you choose to see it as it is, or not.

Human Nature is one illusion you obviously cannot see past.

Human nature is not an "illusion" - we are service to self beings, that is objectively true, and it is true for every last human on this planet. Or do you propose I selectively ignore the truths that I find "uncomfortable"?

Your subconcious still lusts for man's approval.

We all have our individual perspectives, and by sharing our perspectives of the reality we all share we may come to a much better understanding of what is really going on - like a group of blind men touching a different part of the elephant, and together building a coherent picture of the entire elephant. And so, in hopes of fine-tuning my own understanding, I share what I know with others, they share what they know with me, and sometimes another can see a problem with your understanding that you yourself did not detect, and vice versa. We all act as mirrors for one another. Our observation instruments can be fine tuned by comparing them with others, and then adjusting for the error margin of all involved, to try to approach objectivity as much as possible.

You posted a thread on a website beacuse you wanted to be a teacher of a great mystery. A modern day internet Siddartha who guides people into enlightenment.

You cannot "guide someone" into enlightement, because there is no point in your search for truth when you can objectively pronounce that you've attained "enlightenment" - we're all enlightened to our own individual degrees, meaning, we all know SOMETHING, some are simply "more enlightened" than others. You can help others in their search for truth, but the search must be done by them, and the work will always have to be done by them in order for them to see any result. You only get as much as you give.

You really love the attention. But your attemps are obviously not well thought out. You end up getting more ridicule because your truth is your own lie.

Truth is truth, lie is lie. Unless it is subjective, in which case it matters very little.

Were in a humungous universal cartoon and in 5 years it goes off air. We are all pixels on gods television. Time for Universe Episode 2 or 1 million. Who cares, you obviously dont have a grip on reality.

Oh yes, obviously!

Hy concern your self with things that you can truelly have no affect on.

The point is not to control reality, but to understand it, to know it. Also, each of us has an effect on the entire world, because of its non-linear nature, and if a butterfly can cause a hurricane, imagine what I can do!

I mean if they control the whole universe than why ponder on them.

Who said someone controls the whole universe? And either way, do you only ponder about things that YOU personally can control? As for myself, I'm interested in truth of all things, because knowledge is power, it allows me to have control of myself, allows me to DO something real, grants me greater free will. Some use their knowledge to control others, some use it for other purposes. Knowledge, however, protects anyone that possesses it.

They will always control you, get over it and enjoy life while you can.

Who will always control me? Do you understand that NOTHING lasts forever? Anything that has a beginning, has an end.

You have a wonderful understanding of liblama reality. Congratulations! But seriously you need to stop leading people on with this nonsence and realise that you are no different that any of us.

First, you cannot determine for me what I "need" to do. Second, you can call anything you wish "nonsense", it does not make it so just because you decree it. Third, I never said I was "different" than any of you. Yet we're ALL different from each other in certain ways, and we're all the same in other ways.

You are just another dillusional guy with a ingeneous theory.

That's your opinion.

If it were true i think youd probably be terminated in case of an information leak.

That is just your assumption, and it is a false assumption. If I say the US government is responsible for 9-11, it does not mean they'll come and kill me if it's true - many websites have made this claim and have offered a LOT of evidence to back it up, and yet, they're still online, and no one is shot - hmm by your logic it would mean that it's simply not true. But that is simply an assumption, as you'd be assuming to know by what criteria the "powers that be" kill people.

The Scawy Superior beings would blow you away with a lightning bolt.

Another assumption, you cannot decide for any "superior beings" what their criteria should be for killing someone. Nothing I say poses any direct danger to any "authority".

Why tease when it goes unanswered. You have created a greater illusion for everyone who has waisted time reading your posts.

This is subjective - what is a waste of time for one is greatly enlightening and useful for another. You do not have the authority to make any such judgement on behalf of everyone.

You say one must want to know the the truth but you either do not know it your self or "know" and wont tell because you "know" its not the "TRUTH".

Or, I know it, but realise that it simply must be sought with your whole being, or you'll never find it, as it cannot be given.

If I understand a certain math concept, and say that you must put in mental effort and critical thought to understand it too, and that I cannot explain it any further, then by your logic it means I either don't really know the concept myself, or I know it and know that the concept is not TRUE. Once again, you're simply ignoring the possibilities that you do not wish to consider, you're making an assumption that those possibilities simply cannot be true (like the possibility that I'm right and truth cannot be given). Assuming something does not make it true, and ignoring something does not make it false.

So you've read a lot of books about the one ness of the universe or a multiverse of infiniti.

No I haven't read a single one actually.

Sure I think any intelectual mind has concieved this infinite universe or the idea of eternal illusion but obviously none have dwelt on it so much.

Is it because you know every single mind on this planet that you can profess to know who has dwelt on this and how much?

Please just shut up, I dont know a bout anyone else but youve waisted about 3 hours of time on this post.

You're right, you DON'T know about anyone else - and I'm curious why you do something that you clearly see as a waste of your time.

Guess im the idiot for reading. All I know is i'd rather be a "sheeple" than a paranoid lifeless theorist in his own little religion.

Well, to each his own. However, paranoia being "irrational" and "unreasonable", there is plenty of evidence and reason to back up what I say, and in fact, I'd have to be unreasonable to IGNORE the overwhelming amount of data that suggests that this world is indeed not what it seems. And I'm not sure how you define "lifeless", but I'm pretty sure I'm "alive" by the current definition of "alive". And one would think it is obvious (apparently not) that nothing I say has anything to do with any religion, not even "my own" religion, since it contains no beliefs or dogmas of any sort.

In closing I respect that you think for yourself but must you share the nonsence with everyone only to irritate.

What irritates some may enlighten others, as that's subjective.

-Mike

[edit on 7-1-2005 by lilblam]

Look sorry for flipping out but i guess I just don't like not knowing what your big secret is. It pisses me off not understanding this stuff. But I guess there are tons of things I dont know. If you really know the secret of the universe well thats cool. I dont know if I would have enough patience to achieve that state. Anyways Even if I dont believe in your theories that doesnt give me the right to ridicule you for them.