Suicide...For a Reason?, page 7

Originally posted by God
I never asked you what the "truth" was. I honestly don't care what you see the "truth" as.

I asked what it is based on. If all we know of the world are lies and deception... then this "truth" must be based on the same lies and deception. You get it?

But the truth exists, and therefore it can be known. To know, one must be ready to accept it and choose to SEEK it. The reason this world is based on lies and deception is because the people allow themselves to be deceived. As soon as you do not, you no longer can be deceived. It's a choice. Therefore, those who CHOOSE truth, can only see truth, and those who CHOOSE lies, do not see the truth. Do YOU get it? You are only vulnerable to deception if you let yourself be deceived.

Even the act of "erasing everything you've ever known"... isn't that part of the whole deception thing?

That only applies to those who have been conditioned to live a lie. If you KNOW the truth, then of course it doesn't apply, does it. The problem is, most people on this planet are in a deep state of illusion, and therefore this statement applies to MOST who read this on the board. How do you know whether you're the one who lived a lie or not? Well if you aren't sure, then it applies.

As for my being ignorant... I'm simply trying to have a discussion here. That's what message boards are for. Did I touch a nerve or something???

What makes you think you touched a nerve? Do you think I'd have to have "my nerve touched" in order to say what you claim I said?

And for the last time. I don't want to know what your truth is.

It's not mine, it's independent of "ownership". It exists regardless of whether you or I know it, or not. Therefore, if "possession" is applied to a truth, then this apparently makes it SUBJECTIVE, and not truth, as truth is objective.

I'm just wondering how you rationalize all this. When I asked you 'how do you know?'.... I meant exactly that BTW. I didn't mean 'how do I know', if I did I would have asked that instead of my origional question. And yes, there is something I know is 100% certain. WE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING. That's the real truth, it's as simple as that.
And by that I mean (before you twist my words) all our science, mathmatics, everything is bull#. It doesn't really mean anything.
2x2=4, right? I say who gives a #.

Who gives a # is subjective. If you do not CARE does it make something false? By the way, mathematics isn't false, as long as it's applied in proper context, and we have invented that context.
What I mean is, 2+2=4 is only true when certain premises are true. One must define what 2 means, what + means, what = means, and what 4 means. In a base 2 system (0's and 1's) for example, 2+2 doesn't even exist, it's written entirely different and seen as something else. In a base 3 numbering system system, 2+2 is not 4, but actually 11. So I am correct when I say 2+2 = 11 The devil is as always, in the details.

So how do I know? The same way I know 2+2 = 11. I know that reality has no limit. I also know that God only exists if the definition of same exists - as in the math example. If the definition of 2+2 is DIFFERENT, then the result is different, and 2+2=4 can be FALSE, depending on the definition. You have a mind, and you can KNOW certain things and be absolutely 100% CERTAIN that they are true. If something is true, and you are aware of the truth, then you KNOW something. It's sometimes healthy to doubt all the things that you thought you were certain of and find out that some you're not so certain of. However, you can determine for yourself when you truly KNOW something, and when you are not 100% sure. Mathematics is a good thing to use as an example because it's not TANGIBLE, as our tangible physical reality is mostly illusion. It DOES exist, but our perception of it is the illusive part.

Here's something I do know: SOMETHING EXISTS. We might not know what it looks like or what it is, but something somewhere DOES exist. This is certain. I'll tell you more, I EXIST, because my consciousness exists. I think, therefore I am. I don't exist because I see myself, as sight can be easily faked and can be an illusion. However, if I see SOMETHING, then something does exist, though WHAT IT IS according to my perception can be an illusion.

I can just as easily ask, how do you KNOW that everything is an illusion? How do you KNOW this world is based on lies? Observation, the MENTAL kind. Your mind only lies to you if you let it.

In your last two posts I have absolutely no freakin' idea what you're talking about. It's all matrix-related fluff really. You're the same as discussing something with some religious fanatic. They never say anything relating to what you're saying... they dance around it and spew religious fluff.

What part confuses you?

Advanced being???????!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
There are no gods, but there is an advanced being? Alright. Sorry to laugh... but I guess that could be possible, seeing as nobody knows anything.

Advanced is relative of course. Let me clarify: Relatively to humans.

So lets say that there is this being. Why would it want to control us?

Why do humans control animals? Why do you want to EAT? Why do you want to LIVE? Why does ANYONE want to control ANYONE ELSE, as is commonly observed on our planet. What does this "control" do for the controller anyway? What are the dynamics (in terms of energy perhaps) at work here?

How does it benefit from 'programming us' and keeping us ignorant?

The same way we benefit from not revealing to our livestock what it truly is (if it could understand anyway). It might not be our LIVESTOCK if it found out. When one is in illusion, one is under control. Truth sets you free, as you then SEE the controls. The best way to keep someone a slave, is to make them believe they are free.

You're saying to get past the programming.. erase it... blah blah blah. Isn't the 'removal of the wall of lies' just another part of this so called programing???

I'm not programming you to remove it, I'm only advising! The programming you refer to doesn't come from me.

When I said there's no space or time, think about it also kinda like this: When they insert themselves in the Matrix, they can go to any place instantly because the ENTIRE UNIVERSE of the Matrix, is located in ONE place. It's just DATA on a computer. So there is no distance, but to those inside there is. So that would (sorta) explain how space could not exist, but create the illusion that it does. The lack of existance of time I won't describe, but it's also very obvious if logically observed. Like someone else noted, physics might eliminate it entirely in a few years. Maybe.

Do you mean time as in our perception of time (hours, seconds, years, etc) or do you mean time itself. Our perception of it doesn't exist.... I can understand that. But time itself does exist.

I'd disagree. I'd say time doesn't exist, but only our perception that creates the illusion of time exists.

If it didn't wouldn't there be no change, movement, etc? I've never researched this...so... oh wait.... are you going to answer that by telling me I'm choosing to be ignorant because I haven't researched the physics of weither time exists.

No, I'm going to say that movement is based on your illusion of time.

Then you'll continue on by saying... I can't tell you I can only show you.. yadda yadda yadda? If you are don't bother with my question on time Ignore this whole paragraph.

Now. The theory that time doesn't exist. Isn't that part of the programming? Isn't the advanced being manipulating you into believing this???

No, I don't believe it, I know it. Belief can be manipulated, knowledge cannot. What many call knowledge is in fact their belief, as knowledge is ALWAYS true, and false knowledge doesn't exist.

Now, if you discovered how, teleportation is very much possible. If you could understand this reality, your brain has absolutely no limits to how many "rules" of this reality can be broken. But first, you must learn how to break them. You can instantly teleport yourself to a distant star system, anywhere. Also, you can instantly teleport yourself to ANY time, "future" or "past", if you knew how. All knowledge is available inside your head, in the deep subconscious. If you can figure out how to extract certain bits, there are no limits to your mind's potential. Everything is possible, until believed otherwise

You've achieved this? You can teleport? I'm saying it's not possible BTW, just asking. And oh... please don't write paragraphs on how 'I'm asking you to tell me how to teleport myself to distant stars'. I'm not asking you anything except if you can do this. You simply have to write yes, or no.

No.

I imagine if I started saying this, I'd soon find myself in a nice soft room with a straight jacket and 3 pounds of medication in my skull. I'd be going on major paranoia, schizophrenia, and just outright insane. I'm sure they have 35 more clinical conditions they can apply to me, they've been very busy coming up with clinical conditions for people who might open their mouth about even a hint of "truth" about our reality.

Why would you care if you got locked up in a mental institution??? I mean if...

Knowledge is simply all that there is, and if you think there's anything else that you may ever possibly need for anything, you're lying to yourself. What could you think of that's NOT knowledge?

You have achieved this knowledge... it's all you need... why do you care what happens to you next? Why are you worried about 'chonic depression'? Isn't depression the program/distraction/manipulation?

Being locked up in a room puts a little "hamper" on my search for knowledge. Unless of course they provide me with a computer, so I can network with others, then there's no problem! Networking with others is extremely important, and increases your knowledge exponentially - if such is the goal of the network.

Originally posted by Herman
Let's get one thing straight here; WE'RE NOT ROBOTS. Hate to argue with opinions, but time isn't just an illusion crated by our minds yada yada yada. By saying that, you would be saying that if we "re-booted" we could just plain old not age?

You would still age, if you chose to experience this reality. However, if you're not bound by time then you don't have to experience it if you don't want to. It's all about what part of reality you focus on. All exists simultaneously.

If our mind wasn't under the illusion that time exhisted then we would'nt age? Some sort of mental fountain of youth? I think you're just thinking too much.

We'd still age from the perception of the illusion of time. However, if you are not bound to that perception, you can choose to not age, although you will still age from the perception of those who ARE bound by this illusion.

I mean anyone can say stuff like "it's just an illusion, it does not exhist" and it's hard to argue with, because there is no real solid evidence either way.

There needs not be solid evidence for knowledge to exist. All there is is knowledge anyway, all is just thought.

However, we do have more proof than you.

You have no proof, as 3rd density concept of proof is not proof at all.

This seems to be something that you have just conjured up off of something that you read...and for some odd reason, ignoring all theories of logic and reason, believed it. What could you have possibly read or watched *cough* matrix *cough* that would make you just ignore everything.

False assumption, the matrix has nothing to do with this, although it DOES help me explain these concepts to people like you, only ones more open minded and who do not have a mental block that rejects anything outside their belief systems.

I mean there is solid ground, proof that time does exhist!!!

There is not. Prove it then.

If it was just an illusion of our mind, then we would'nt all be seeing the same thing. We also would'nt be able to feel it.

You don't feel time, and the illusion was imposed on ALL humans, not just random ones.

It would spontaniously change when we...forgot it was there.

You cannot, you are bound to this illusion based on your limited awareness. Expand your awareness, and it will no longer exist for you either. Not just "pretend not exist" but truly cease to exist, you will not perceive anything even remotely resembling "time".

Unless there is some "higher being" that somehow programmed us to ALL see the same exact thing at the same time...feel it, never have it change.. And if there is this programming, how do you know that what you've found isn't just another lie set up by this "higher being" to deceive you?

I cannot say with certainty WHY it is you perceive time, but I can say with absolute certainty that it is an illusion, because that much I understand.

Maybe it knew that you were going to re-search, so he set this up.

He could set up anything he wants, but once I am out to find truth, any attempt to give me false knowledge will fail. This is a fact, and it works the same for all.

And like infovacume said, he would'nt allow this to be floating around in the internet..

You do not know what this being would or would not allow, any more than your pet lizard (if you had one) can guess YOUR thinking.

I mean, is simply believing in God so bad?

Bad is subjective, I never said it's bad.

Like I said, just because what you've found is harder to find, it doesn't mean that it's better or more true.

Of course not, the difficulty of finding something doesn't make it more true. However, when you understand something and SEE it for what it is, this makes it true. Your mind is what determines what is true and what is not, your mind's ability to perceive objective reality.

Question, what would a Christian be more SURE of, that Jesus is really the only Son of God, or that 1+1=2 in a base-10 numbering system?
Which does he BELIEVE, and which does he KNOW? That's the difference, if you can see it here.

Hate to sound like a typical close minded idiot, but you may have been watching too much matrix, judging by some of the things you've said.

NOTHING I said I took from that movie, period. Your assumption that any of what I said was influenced by this movie is false, but assume as you like.

Not all of it mind you, you sound smart, but some of it. And about the mental box thing: What I was saying is, thinking outside the box can become a box within it's self. Some people refuse to believe something, just because the mass of the population believes it (or claims to).

I don't refuse to "believe something" just BECAUSE ill in the blank>. I do not believe anything. I strive to objectively find the truth in absolutely ALL THINGS that I encounter, and I try to stay non-prejudiced and non-anticipatory as best I can while doing so. I try to avoid having preference, to stay as objective as possible and simply to try to see what IS, instead of what I'd LIKE IT TO BE.

Maybe there is a reason so many people believe it?

Convincing propaganda. Is that not a good reason for you?

Pretend there is no box. Consider christianity, consider everything else. You're refusing to think inside the box, which puts you not outside the box, but in a seperate box altogeather. (I hope this all makes sense, I went out to eat and had like 8,00000 cups of pepsi and cake. Gonna have to run like 26 miles to work this all off)

What I refuse is the entropic principle. What I refuse is to STOP thinking and become a reaction machine as most people are, to only think what I'm told to think, the way I'm told to think, and when I'm told to think. What I refuse is to simply OBEY orders to demonstrate my "compliance" and "docile nature". What I instead try to do is to find my true self, to strip all the lies off from myself and to see who I truly am. What I try to do is to avoid believing something JUST because everyone believes it so it must be true, but instead try to find the truth MYSELF and stop at nothing until I do. What I try to do is to NOT LIMIT my mind by saying "this is beyond me, I can never figure this out" or "This is not my job, I'll let scientists figure this out" or "I don't worry about these things, all I know is what I'm told".

So yes, I refuse to think INSIDE the box, the box of NON-THINKING, the box of REACTING TO STIMULI, the box SELF-CENTERED ORIENTATION. Instead, I try to NOT LIMIT myself as much as I possibly can, and THAT is precisely what I mean by thinking "outside the box". I refuse to LIMIT my thoughts, and to do this, I must clear mental blocks and fears that otherwise exists and prevent me from thinking about certain things. I try to deactate the mental programming that I have been subjected to (as we all were) since BIRTH.

Once again, this isn't just a REFUSAL TO THINK WHAT OTHERS THINK, it's a refusal to LIMIT the mind, and this takes much work.

Once again, not to insult you. Believing something alot of people believe isn't ignorance, believing it BECAUSE alot of people believe it is ignorance.

Yes, and if I find something that is believed by many people that is indeed TRUE, then I will NOT pretend it's false, as the number of people believing something holds no meaning to me, other than seeing what the general popular consensus is for observation purposes.

There ARE some things that are fundementally true and are believed by certain groups of people (NOTHING is universally believed by all), but NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING requires any BELIEF, it can all be KNOWN if one seeks to know it. People are too lazy to actually try to KNOW things, and therefore they replace it with "belief" instead, hoping that this belief is TRUE, although they're not really sure, but don't want to spend the time MAKING SURE. They have made this choice. They decided that entertaining themselves, and spending all their 'time' with self-pleasing exercises is more important than seeking truth. I don't see this as BAD, I only see it for what it is, which is what I said in the previous sentence - objective observation of what it is, not subjective judgement. However, I have made a different choice from most people, and therefore this choice will lead me (for obvious reasons) AWAY from those who are immersed in illusion. In fact, the more one is immersed in illusions, the more in contrast their mind will be with mine.

-Mike