One Third Of The Holocaust:More Compelling Evidence It Never Happened

"Since the 1960s, Jews have come to wield considerable influence in American economic, cultural, intellectual and political life. Jews played a central role in American finance during the 1980s, and they were among the chief beneficiaries of that decade's corporate mergers and reorganizations. Today, though barely two percent of the nation's population is Jewish, close to half its billionaires are Jews. The chief executive officers of the three major television networks and the four largest film studios are Jews, as are the owners of the nation's largest newspaper chain and the most influential single newspaper, the New York Times ... The role and influence of Jews in American politics is equally marked ...

Jews are only three percent of the nation's population and comprise eleven percent of what this study defines as the nation's elite. However, Jews constitute more than 25 percent of the elite journalists and publishers, more than 17 percent of the leaders of important voluntary and public interest organizations, and more than 15 percent of the top ranking civil servants."
(Jewish author and political science professor Benjamin Ginsberg)

Kenochi could you possibly post some links to the sources you are using?

I'm assuming these quotes are from websites.

What is your view of these quotes you've posted ?

You've previously stated that the Jews as "enemies of the state" were detained and died due to disease and starvation.

How do these quotes support that position ?

cheers old bean

regards

beagle

pip pip !!

[edit on 11-3-2007 by the smoking beagle]

Wow.

Just started looking into that name you dropped, Paul Rassinier, and all I can say is...wow.

I'm more than familiar with the truth of history being stretched to assist the agendas of the stretchers, but I never knew it could be this big. Wow...

Originally posted by truthseeka
Just started looking into that name you dropped, Paul Rassinier, and all I can say is...wow.

It gets worse I´m afraid truthseeka...

Looking at my firewall logs there have been well over 50 intrusion attempts towards my router in the last 24 hours... Coincidence? I have stopped believing in coincedences...

I might as well throw in the towel (you would say) but... I won´t.

Graf has ommitted details with regards to a shooting of 10.000 people mentioned in a Hilberg book, yes. To say he is a liar and with that statement declaring all he has written and quoted null and void is ignorance.

Graf has appearantly posted on a white supremacist board. Thank you beagle, I was not aware of that. But... I find it weird that the way he writes his posts are not the same as he has written his books (style, punctuation, etc...) also there are posts in finnish?? Lastly, he has spelled his name as Juergen Graf,... Why not Jürgen Graf?

Is this the REAL Jürgen Graf? I wonder. But even if he is, the summary stands.

I would like some simple answers to some simple questions:

o If the resevoir in Auschwitz was later (sic) fitted with diving boards and supposidly only to be used by "priviliged" prisoners and the SS, why on earth put it smack in the middle of general population?? (Yes barracks which held Jewish prisoners). The resevoir was clearly in the middle of a guarded section, where the SS quarters where on the outside...

o Why was there a Theatre?

o Music classes and performances?

o mail traffic in and out??(!!!)

Hardly Death camp policy I say.

Also, more importantly:

o Why did initial witnesses flatly exaggerate and LIE? (Steamed to death? WTF? A seven kilometer wide iron plateau which could be submerged killing the people standing on it with electricity? WTF???? A floor that opens and drops bodies into waiting trollies on a train track??? WTF???

o Killing with Diesel is near impossible. Do the research. Why didn´t the Germans simply use several wood-gas vehicles, which drove around by the 100.000nds in that era. Almost ten times the Co2 content. Also Diesel was scarse and was needed for tanks!. A submarine engine??? W T F???

o Zyklon-B is highly poisenous, and vapourates at 30 degrees Celcius. To commit a gassing in a basement they would have to heated the basement articifially. Even if thousands of people were cramped in a room below there the temperature would not reach 30 degrees Celcius! The dying would have taken hours not minutes. Unless that is kilos of Zyklon-B were used, in which case the clearing of the bodies would have been a highly risky affair. See also other research! WTF people....

o Burning, say 500.000 bodies isn´t a trifle thing! How much wood do you think is used to burn a single body (in the open air). 150 to 200 KILOS of wood, depending on the strenght of the wind. (Prove me wrong!). Where did this wood come from? The planet Zork? Do you really think you can place three of for people on top of each other on a grille and light a match? (Treblinka) THINK GODDAMIT! Three bodies in an oven at the same time? (Auschwitz). WTF??? It does NOT COMPUTE and violates the law of physics. The testimonies of the eye witnesses simply CANNOT be true because it is physically IMPOSSIBLE.

o Why did Höss confess to having killed almost double the amount of people as opposed to official recorded numbers of transports to Auschwitz??? WTF?

o The barbed wired fence was woven through with tree branches in Treblinka. Prisoners who where on grill burning detail (Burning over 800.000 bodies in under a year according to orthodox history) never had the notion to set fire to this fence. O RLY? Prisoners had priviliges and were allowed to smoke_ O RLY?. And noone of these prisoners has had the simple idea to set fire to this wooden fence, burning down half the camp with it and thus creating a liberating riot? O RLY? W T F?

There is tons more, these just of the top of my head...

I simply do not believe I have not questioned these things before...

Thanks to A.T.S. the veil which was covering my eyes has now been stripped away... Next step? Nothing ofcourse. Do you really think I am going to risk jail by screaming this from rooftops?

No. But I´m still angry about it and WILL NOT SHUT UP ABOUT IT.

This drives me nuts.

[edit on 11-3-2007 by Truth4hire]

Revisionism is dangerous: right winger François Duprat was blown up in 1978

His wife lost the use of her legs in the attack.

Why?

He had the audacity to translate into French and distribute an edition of the Zündel booklet, Did Six Million Really Die? and also some work by Paul Rassinier.

Source: Wikipedia

Source: revisionists.com

If you care to read the work, it is right here on this page (appearantly edited by Barbara Kulaszka)

[edit on 11-3-2007 by Truth4hire]

Beagle,
the quotes I've been giving come from books, not websites. As I said earlier in this thread, I've been interested in this subject for several years and as a result I've accumulated a decent stock of Holocaust-related matter. I only stumbled across this thread a couple of weeks ago, while searching for something else. I wasn't even a member before then, but was so shocked by the conformist drivel being written by people on a site which claims to be about 'denying ignorance' that I felt I had to jump in. If you want to check my quotes because you suspect I've made them up, I'm sure a bit of googling will verify them for you.
In terms of what they prove and don't prove, its very simple. Every single historian and writer I have quoted on this thread is considered to be on the other side of the debate (as I consider myself to be a revisionist). I have purposely avoided quoting recognised 'deniers' such as Jurgen Graf, because its too easy for people to dismiss them, without even reading properly. Yet all of the writers I've quoted express grave doubts about aspects of the holocaust story and the ways in which it is cynically manipulated.
What I'm trying to do is escape from the shallow name-calling which always gets thrown at anyone who expresses anti-zionist or anti-holocaust-hype views.
If I simply wrote the words that Finkelstein or Evron (or even Hilberg or Pressac) had written as my own, people would just shout me down and call me anti-semitic or a liar, as happened earlier in this thread.
When you see those words written by Jewish historians or Israeli writers or stalwart historians of the holocaust myth, you are more likely to be forced to face reality, as your arsenal of petty insults can no longer be applied.

You are then forced to engage in the uncomfortable process of thinking about the issues raised, rather than repeating the same bunch of standard, media-fed platitudes. It is then possible, that maybe, just maybe you might realise that people like me are not anti-semitic or Nazi apologists, we are just rational people who have a case to be heard.

It seems that if you want to criticise the holocaust and the holocaust industry, you have to be Jewish, otherwise you end up in prison.
This, in itself, is indicative of the entire problem.

Hi kenochi, thanks for the considered, articulate reply.

It's late here so I don't want to spend too much time replying right now. So I'll just address one or two things that spring out of your post.

Originally posted by kenochi
the quotes I've been giving come from books, not websites.......
If you want to check my quotes because you suspect I've made them up, I'm sure a bit of googling will verify them for you.

I wasn't implying you made up your quotes. However a book title and page number would be handy! Funnily enough I have been Googling!

Originally posted by kenochi
I have purposely avoided quoting recognised 'deniers' such as Jurgen Graf, because its too easy for people to dismiss them, without even reading properly.

Herr Graf's polemical writing style does detract somewhat from the substance of his material IMHO.

Originally posted by kenochi
...............your arsenal of petty insults can no longer be applied.

What I did do in my previous post, was take the piss out of David Duke and his chums.

David "Reinhard Heydrich" Duke's a big boy and I'm sure he's been called worse in the past.

I haven't applied any petty insults to you or your posts. If you feel slighted, I apologise. Having read quite a few forums and seen the "flame wars" on them, I don't intend to start one here.

Originally posted by kenochi
It seems that if you want to criticise the holocaust and the holocaust industry, you have to be Jewish, otherwise you end up in prison.

Ken, where I live, in jolly old Blighty, people aren't locked up for any critiscism of the holocaust. It's not illegal, and long may it remain like that.

The recent Nick Griffin case and that Muslim anti cartoon protester chap's verdicts, seem to me to be about right as they relate to freedom of speech.

Hmmmm..... this post is a bit longer than anticipated!

Anyway, in the words of the last Tommy off the beach at Dunkirk "I'll be back".

At least it was in the Hollywood film version I saw

regards

beagle

pip pip !!

[edit on 11-3-2007 by the smoking beagle]

Originally posted by Truth4hire
Graf has appearantly posted on a white supremacist board. Thank you beagle, I was not aware of that. But... I find it weird that the way he writes his posts are not the same as he has written his books (style, punctuation, etc...) also there are posts in finnish?? Lastly, he has spelled his name as Juergen Graf,... Why not Jürgen Graf?

Is this the REAL Jürgen Graf? I wonder.

Thanks for the thanks Truth !

Is he ? Isn't he ?

That page was promoting VHO which is Herr Graf's website.

David Duke and chums seem pretty keen on Jürgen. Are they that short of "headline acts" that they need to fake his presense on their forum ?

regards

beagle

pip pip !!



[edit on 11-3-2007 by the smoking beagle]

you deniers make me sick . what part of all the mounds of bodies
don't you understand ? and im not jewish either .

just great ! the Zyklon-B fight again.


[edit on 12-3-2007 by gen.disaray]

Beagle,
I didn't mean to suggest that you had been rude - you are one of the few on your side of the debate here to have managed to present their case without resorting to personality slurs and ad hominem attacks. I meant 'you' as in 'you people on this message board' (if you see what I mean.)
With regard to books, all the quotes I've used have come from 'The Destruction of the European Jews' by Raul Hilberg, 'The technique and operation of the gas chambers at Auschwitz' by Jean-Claude Pressac (considered to be the two most authoritative works on the Holocaust) and two books by Norman G Finkelstein, 'The Holocaust Industry' and 'Beyond Chutzpah - on the misuse of anti-semitism and the abuse of history'.
I could find page numbers if you really want, but to be honest I can't really be arsed.
I would recommend that all you absolutists - all you who are so assured of your righteousness on this topic buy and read some of these books. The fact is that you don't have to read anything by a 'denier' to see how shaky the holocaust story is.
If more of you did that, it would prevent so many embarrasingly ignorant comments, like the one directly above being made.

Originally posted by Truth4hire
Lastly, he has spelled his name as Juergen Graf,... Why not Jürgen Graf?

Is this the REAL Jürgen Graf? I wonder.

As a german i would like to point out that Jürgen or Juergen is the same.
Its just that the letter "ü" is found on many keyboards so one can use "ue" instead.

Ue spoken out is exactly the same as ü.

Originally posted by gen.disaray
you deniers make me sick . what part of all the mounds of bodies
don't you understand ?

The part that pictures of mounds of bodies of prisoners who died of disease (pectoral typhus) and malnutrition taken in Bergen-Belsen by the Allies are presented as proof for systematic extermination.

The mounds of bodies as you so eloquently put it were examined by British medics and were found to (mostly ) have died from typhys. No bodies were diagnosed as being killed by gas or carbon monoxide poisoning in any of the camps under German control. None. Zero.

I do not blame you for these comments, but I´d rather you did some research on your own before making sweeping statements like "you deniers".

Originally posted by Fett Pinkus
As a german i would like to point out that Jürgen or Juergen is the same.
Its just that the letter "ü" is found on many keyboards so one can use "ue" instead.

Yes, I forgot to mention they are the same, like the double s written like ß, the ae like ä and oe like ö.

What I wonder is that why Graf if he is posting from his own computer, why would he not have a QWERTZ keyboard which contains the ü by default? Also, why refer to vho.org, while it is Germar Rudolf´s site?

Check the resemblances between germarrudolf.com and vho.org

Thanks for mentioning this, I was sloppy in my reply.

Originally posted by kenochi
With regard to books, all the quotes I've used have come from 'The Destruction of the European Jews' by Raul Hilberg, 'The technique and operation of the gas chambers at Auschwitz' by Jean-Claude Pressac (considered to be the two most authoritative works on the Holocaust) and two books by Norman G Finkelstein, 'The Holocaust Industry' and 'Beyond Chutzpah - on the misuse of anti-semitism and the abuse of history'.
I could find page numbers if you really want, but to be honest I can't really be arsed.

Some of which are online in PDF format I might add.

I´m currently reading the transcript of Zündel´s trial, where lawyer Christie is cross-examining the authority on the Holocaust Hilberg. Absolutely fascinating material. Hilberg´s credibility is almost annihilated at the point where I am now (page 117) and the document contains 940 pages. I recommend this if you would like insight on what documents do actually exist and are accepted, and what Hilberg based his standard work on (see few posts back for link to Did Six Million Really Die?)

Thanks for not being arsed kenochi!

I'm not sure about Hilberg. I think he's a genuine academic who speaks his mind, but I think its clear when you read books like 'The Destruction' and see how sketchy the evidence is, that he's not objective on this issue. Again this is a problem with the study of the Holocaust. Virtually everyone who writes about it is Jewish and has some sort of emotional investment in it, which clearly effects their thinking. I must admit I don't know much about Hilberg personally - it would be interesting to know what his own experience of the 'Holocaust' was. If he lost family members or had relatives held in camps. Something has caused him to make some pretty big leaps over some pretty big gaps in terms of analysis of evidence.
But overall he is quite moderate in his approach, not a judeo-supremacist, German-hater like Goldhagen, for example, or a hysterical ranter, like Lipstadt, or a self-promoting airhead, like Shermer. Hilberg has publicly stated that he agrees with Finkelstein about the ways in which powerful Jewish lobbies have used and exaggerated the Holocaust story to manipulate public opinion and advance their own agendas. I respect him for that, even though I disagree with his beliefs about gas chambers.

I hear that. The parts I have read from Hilberg´s work do not seem to be all that bias, he is simply distorting evidence I would say.

For instance in his standard work on the Holocaust he quotes Kurt Gerstein ten times, even though neutral historians called him "insane". He deliberatly lifted statements by Gerstein out of his affedavit and omitted parts which he deemed well "nuts". Another thing is that in the first edition of The Destruction Of The European Jews he writes Hitler gave two orders for the extermination of the Jews in Europe, but no such orders existed. In the second edition he removed all references to the supposed executive order. The Zündel trial transcript is explosive material. I wonder if you by any chance have read it?

I highly recommend it to get a clear picture from both sides.

Thanks for your comments kenochi.

Originally posted by Truth4hire

The part that pictures of mounds of bodies of prisoners who died of disease (pectoral typhus) and malnutrition taken in Bergen-Belsen by the Allies are presented as proof for systematic extermination.

The mounds of bodies as you so eloquently put it were examined by British medics and were found to (mostly ) have died from typhys. No bodies were diagnosed as being killed by gas or carbon monoxide poisoning in any of the camps under German control. None. Zero.

I do not blame you for these comments, but I´d rather you did some research on your own before making sweeping statements like "you deniers".

I would also counsel against distorting evidence. The bodies you mentioned above were from concentration camps - not extermination camps, where the normal practice was to burn the bodies. To say that none of the concentration camp bodies were killed by gas is to only mention a part of the overall truth. Which is highly suggestive in itself.
I would also like to point out that the bodies all showed signs of starvation and general neglect - a neglect indicative of the way that the Nazis treated those that they regarded as being subhuman. The word 'vile' doesn't even come close.

Its also indicative of the fact that there was an enormous war going on and as German railway lines, roads and other forms of infrastructure became bombed out, it became virtually impossible to get food or medical supplies in. The Russians and Americans, who took over the running of the camps, after liberation, encountered exactly the same problem.
What you have to understand, Darkmind is that no-one is saying that the Nazis were all great guys and the whole thing was just a misunderstanding. Obviously mistreatment and deaths did occur as the Nazis attempted to move all non-Aryans out of the territory of the German Reich. This was a horrible thing to have happened and the Jews, as well as Poles, Gypsies, Slavs, Untermensch, homosexuals etc did suffer.
But that does not mean it is acceptable to exaggerate numbers or invent absurd atrocity stories to manipulate public opinion.

Originally posted by Darkmind
I would also counsel against distorting evidence. The bodies you mentioned above were from concentration camps - not extermination camps, where the normal practice was to burn the bodies.

The pictures you mentioned earlier were from Bergen-Belsen, and the bodies were examined, and there was no gas or carbon monoxide involved in their killing.

Originally posted by Darkmind
To say that none of the concentration camp bodies were killed by gas is to only mention a part of the overall truth. Which is highly suggestive in itself.

I did not say that at all, I said that there were no bodies found in camps under German control which showed that they were killed by gas or carbon-monoxide.

Originally posted by Darkmind
I would also like to point out that the bodies all showed signs of starvation and general neglect - a neglect indicative of the way that the Nazis treated those that they regarded as being subhuman. The word 'vile' doesn't even come close.

As early as 1944 it was recognized by both the Germans and even the Red Cross that the situation in the camps (in general) was deteriorating rapidly, and that inmates were dying in large numbers because of disease and malnutrition. One of the reasons was that there were insufficient supplies of chemicals (yes, Zyklon-B) to disinfect barracks and clothing from lice which carried pectoral typhus, another reason is that supplies were very hard to bring into the camps because the breakdown of the German infrastructure. These essential supplies (food, medication) were needed to keep the inmates alive. Tyfus was a huge killer in the eastern camps and spared friend nor foe.

Naturally many perished at the end of the war for the above reasons. This still is not proof of gassing or systematic extermination. If anything I would say it was careless of the Allies to bomb the railways which carried supplies to the camps (not soldiers).

Have you bothered to read any of the transcripts at all? I wish you would, because your reactions are biased.

EDIT: Saw your reply later kenochi, which basically says the same, thanks.

[edit on 13-3-2007 by Truth4hire]

I think there was somewhat of a holocaust, but I do not believe that any wheres around 11 million people were killed at all.

And I don't think it would be illegal to question the "holocaust" in most of Europe if there wasn't something to hide.

[edit on 023131p://54032 by mnmcandiez]