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Originally posted by Ezekiel
Yes but when was the last time they told a Christian to strap a bomb to themselves and detonate it in a crowded public area?
It just doesnt happen. They might have extreme views on gays, Islam and other religions - however I have never heard of any cases of them advocating violence against them.
Cant say the same thing about (some) Islamic Clerics.
Originally posted by Ezekiel
I have just ordered a copy off the net, so as soon as I get it I will - at this stage I have to go off what I find on the net, and I have looked at sites that are FOR, AGAINST and INDIFFERENT to Islam.
The big difference is the 'For' sites try to 'interperet' the words like kill, maim and slaughter into something less sinister and violent. The middle of the line sites just put the words out there and say "hey make up your own mind" and the against sites make ludicrous connections and try to spin every mundane sentence into a declaration of war against Christians.
Originally posted by hogtie
You raise a point that I never get tired of hearing. There are Palestinian and Lebanese Christians, no? They live under the same opression as the Palestinian and Lebanese Muslims, no? So why then are there no Palestinian or Lebaneses Christian suicide bombers?
Originally posted by Souljah
What about all those ACCIDENTAL Killings?
Shooting at Roadblocks?
Raping 14-year old Girls?
Dropping bombs on Houses full of Families?
Well I guess in your eyes that is "Rooting Out the Extremits", correct?
Apparently anything that the Noble Western Soldiers DO, while Standing on OCCUPIED LAND, is called Liberatng, or Defending, or Peacekeeping - or some other oxymoronic word similar to those.
url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Body_Count_project]Iray-Body Count[/url]
They did? How come? There were IDF soldiers captured OVER the border with Israel and Lebanon on LEBANESE SIDE - meaning, that the IDF was already breaing international laws (like usually).
And have you ever heard about this "Kidnapped Soldiers" again? Or about Private Gilad, who was supposed to be captured by Palestinian militants in Gaza?
Well lets start at the beginning shall we?
Firstly, the terrible 9-11 attacks on WTC happened Correct?
Who was found to be responsible?
Osama Bin Laden and his Al-Qaeda network of Terrorists.
He was supposed to be hiding in Afganistan - so the Noble Christian Armies removed the Taliban regime, by all means neccessary and installed their own little puppet goverment. Problem Solved?
And has Terrorism Stopped since then?
OK, lets move on - IRAQ;
First there were Weapons of Mass Destruction - but none were found.
Then there was the Connection between Saddam & Al-Qaeda - but none were found.
Then Bush himself said, that Saddam had NOTHING to do with the terrorist attacks on WTC on 9-11 - so why the hell was Iraqi attacked then, if all the MAJORTY points for invason turned out to be completly and utter CRAP?
So, is Iraq at least SAFER today? Well judging by the constant news reports about killings, massacres and dead bodies found, I can call Iraq the most dangerous place on earth - thanks to the Noble Christian Armies, who have come here to Liberate the people of Iraq; but as it looks to me, they really do not give a crap about them, as General Tommy Franks of the US central command prudly says:
"We don’t do body counts"
So, how come the US is DEFENDING itself from the terrorists, when they are standing on foreign land, occupying another country?
One of the most dangerous ideas of the 20th century was that "people like us" could not commit atrocities agaisnt civilians
Originally posted by half_minded
I am from India but I lived all my life in Kuwait. I was 7 yrs old when Iraq attacked Kuwait. I lived in a small apartment with my parents and my 2 older brothers and an elder sister. We woke up on the morning of 2nd august to the sound of an explosion. We thought it could have been a thunder but it was just too loud and sounded too close. We woke up our parents. My dad assured us it was nothing and went off to work as usual. Half way to his workplace he was sent back home.
There were iraqi soldiers everywhere, people shooting, tanks going off, bombs being dropped. Iraq had attacked Kuwait and had pretty much taken control over it. My dad came home and told us of what we saw. We started panicking and my dad tried to contact his friends to see how we could get out of the country. Airport was closed off. We were scared to leave the apartment. We had heard on the news that Iraqi soldiers were taking yound males prisoners. Esp. young kuwait males. They were randomly going to people's houses and apartments and either just killing them or taking them prisoners.
One day an Iraqi soldier came to our house. He wanted to take my dad and elder bro prisoner. He wanted to take them away. My mom pleaded and begged him not too. She cried a lot and so did the rest of us. Somehow through some miracle he did felt pity or since we were not kuwaiti, he spared my dad and bro and assured us that no other soldier would come to our place. I wonder what would have happened if he had taken them prisoner that day. My life wudnt be the same.
My dad and his friend formed a convoy of cars and we left everything to leave the country by road. At first we were stopped at different borders but finally we were allowed to leave. We had to drive through different countries and live in tents. We were refugess for months. We stayed in small size tents and we slept on a thin cloth through which we wud feel the rocks poking all over our bodies. Occassionally the aid truck wud come by to drop off food for us.
My dad came back to kuwait couple of years later. He was a volunteer for the fire fighting team which was still trying to extinguish burning oil wells. My dad had to drive with his headlights on during the day because the smoke had filled the skies completely. The trees were black. He had to dodge land mines and dead bodies that were all over the place. Even to this day we get reports of people dying or getting injured because of land mines left over since the attack.
In short, think about the people US kills everyday. Bush and Israel have wiped out entire cities. Ppl cry abt 9/11 abut what abt the people being killed everyday. Entire cities getting wiped out. Americans should #ing stop supporting Bush. And ya US does not need to poke its nose in other countries business. People were much happier in afghanistan, iraq, and lebanon before US attacked them. Atleast they were alive, they had homes, and they could go out in the streets. Im so pissed off i cant even right anymore
Originally posted by DJMessiah
Originally posted by hogtie
You raise a point that I never get tired of hearing. There are Palestinian and Lebanese Christians, no? They live under the same opression as the Palestinian and Lebanese Muslims, no? So why then are there no Palestinian or Lebaneses Christian suicide bombers?
Look up the 'Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine' (PFLP). It's led by a Christian leader.
[edit on 18-9-2006 by DJMessiah]
Originally posted by DJMessiah
The group was being led by a Christian named George Habash.
Originally posted by Ezekiel
No, not correct.
Shooting at roadblocks is something the neither you or I - who are not in a volatile situation like Iraq can understand nor criticise.
If you were in the soldiers shoes, trying to get to your goal and there was a roadblock in the way that could have explosives, or armed insurgents hidden - what would you do?
Ask them nicely to move, then stand around patiently waiting for them to comply?
Raping ANYBODY let alone 14 year old girls is disgusting behaviour and I do not condone it in any way.
The problem here is you are doing what you accuse me of doing - generalising the entire group based on the actions of the bad few. Not all of the soldiers in Iraq rape little girls - just like not all Muslims are terrorists.
Just like anything the noble civilian targeting, glory seeking, suicide bombing terrorists call anything THEY do Liberating or defending (their religion of course). Its all about perception and belief. The US believes its doing the right thing. Just like the terrorists believe they are doing the right thing.
Amatuers relying on news sources for the count? Come on man - BOTH sides of politics has criticised those guys.
Yes they were captured - by a NON STATE, TERRORIST orgisation. Its not like the Lebanese government and military captured the soldier - which would have been one Sovereign nation at war with another. It was A TERRORIST group that was not sanctioned by the nation it was operating from, kidnapping a member of the armed forces from a SOVEREIGN NATION!
And has Terrorism Stopped since then?
If only it were that simple - what are we supposed to do, give up?
Well, Im an aussie - and we havent started any wars or had any genocides yet. And for that, Im glad.
I am sorry, but Hizb'allah was, DEMOCRATICLY ELECTED in Southern Lebanon and earned 23 seats in Parlament? Well they are ofcourse treated as a TERRORIST group by almost all the Western agencies and goverments.
Originally posted by Ezekiel
Just because a political party has won seats in parliament, does not mean they can arm their followers and create a pseudo army that goes around capturing foreign soldiers!
The only recognized Military Force a country has is its Armed forces, which does not owe allegiance to any one political party. (unless your talking about a dictatorship like Sadaams Iraq pre invasion) it owes allegiance to the government and the people.
NOw those soldiers werent captured by the Lebanese Armed Forces, they were captured by the Military Wing of the HEzbollah Political Party who did it to further their own political agenda!
Originally posted by Mizar:
The issues at hand are if someone commits some heinous act in the name of relgion.
For example. Bush is a christian but the awr in Iraq is not a "christian war"
If I was to commit some act of violence and I am a catholic that does not mean my catholisim has made me commit the violence. However if I say I am murdering this person in the name of Jesus Christ because they have done such and such.. then that reflects my personal catholic stance. (this is an example again and in no way reflects the teachings of the Catholic Church)
Dont blame something someone does on their relgion unless they actively state it is for the relgion. For most people relgion is not something that makes their every decision and move.
Ayatollah Khamenei said the remarks by Pope Benedict XVI last Tuesday were the "latest link" in "the chain of a conspiracy to set in train a crusade".
Other links, he added, included the cartoon satirising Muhammad and "the insulting remarks of some American and European politicians and newspapers about Islam".
Originally posted by Souljah
Didn't you want Demoracy in Middle East?
A Military Wing has won seats in Parlament - what does that tell you?
That the People of Southern Lebanon are With them - you know why?
Israel Creates their Own Enemies by doing what they are doing for decades.
And you know what? The people are supporting this Terrorists.
What if Armed Forces can not Protect you and your Family?
Who would you trust?
You want to know how many Lebanese Prisoners are in Israeli Prisons?
But yet again - if IDF soldiers were Kidnapped by Hizb'Allah - a military wing in control of Southern Lebanon, why the the IDF waged war against an Entire Country and its Infrastructure and above all, its CIVILIANS?
Let's not even start to list all the International Laws and Geneva Convetions and Human Rights broken here by the IDF, which was ofcourse Defending itself from the Running Lebanese Civilians and littered some places with Cluster Bombs for decades to come.
Who's Political Agenda was shown here?
Originally posted by RedGolem
And I dont think Christions use the term infidel, I think they use hethen
Originally posted by Knights
I have to admit i'm not quite up to scratch with religious violence but i'm sure Christians are still active in killings/ bombings etc.
Yes, they were tolerant. They didn't proclain jihad on the whole world until recently.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
The tolerant Pakistani muslim response?
"Anyone who describes Islam as a religion as intolerant encourages violence," Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Tasnim Aslam said....She said Muslims had a long history of tolerance,
Originally posted by zerotime
When aren't the muslims raging over something. Seems like they out in the streets in a rage about something new every couple of days and everyone babies them until they are happy again. These fanatics are like 2 year old kids. It is starting to get old.
That wasn't a nice comment. This type of comment is an extremist comment, and puts you in the same class as well. You know you aren't an extremeist, so one or two comments in an extreme manner doesn't make you an extremist. I personally believe that the only way to get rid of this fighting is to get rid of the Musslims entirely, but I'm not going to do it, or even pretend to think about it.
Originally posted by xmotex
And if we want to survive, as a species, not just a nation, it's people like you we need to be rid of.
Originally posted by Souljah
And How would You People feel, if a Supreme Islamic Cleric would declare, that Christianity and Judaism is based on Violence and that they preach death and war?
He was banished from his family, and cursed, with a mark upon his forehead, so that way others would not kill him. This is also a part of the Bible accepted by the Musslim faith.
Originally posted by Souljah
And Brother Killing Brother is OKEY? (Cain & Abel)
Taken out of context. The child was never killed. He was the child of the promise, and God was seeing (making a point about something) if Abraham would still believe in the promise when this was the only thing God had ever given him as a direct sign of that fulfilment was taken away. In fact, throughout much of the Bible, when you come upon child killing as sacrifice, it's condemned, and the people left to hell. Again, a part accepted by the musslims.
And Parents Killing their own Children is OKEY? (Abraham & Isaac)
No, it wasn't. You act as if something is reported in scripture, that it automatically meant it was good. The Bible never really makes an apology for evil people. It pointed out what they did, and left it at that, no justification. The only applause in Christendom over the crucifix is the empty tomb that was there, 3 days later. It was a fulfilment to prophecy. Killed on a tree, his bones wern't broken (traditionally, you break the leg bones after about 6 hours to speed up the death), his side was pierced and flowed blood and water (since the blood was seperated, he had to have been dead for a bit, and couldn't have fainted), and a whole host of other prophecies, that have to do with niggling litle points that you know nothing about unless you go through a whole crucifixion, historically.
And Crucifixion is OKEY?
It wasn't. His own people turned on him, and that's why he fled.
And Moses Murdering an Egyptian after making sure that no one is looking is OKEY?
Of course violence is throughout the scriptures. Violence, in and of itself is not evil, it is the direction it's applied. At the same time, much of the violence in the scripture was not condoned...nor was it condemned. Some of the volence that you caused could be the reason to put you to death...and sometimes, you were rewarded for it. Context is everything.
PLENTY of Cruely And Violence can be found in Holy Bible.
But the problem is, that that is OKEY, correct?
Only those with death tinted glasses don't get the context of most of the violence. Pointing out any violence in any religion without a benefit of why the violence is happening, is dangerous. Violence, in and of itself, isn't the issue. Otherwise, I'd not be able to tolerate any sport...like Rugby, Football, Ice Hockey.....
Only Bible readers who wear the thickest rose-colored glasses can fail to notice all the blood and violence that fill its pages.
That's every issue in life. The majority don't care until someone they know stirrs them up to a mob mentality.
Originally posted by xmotex
It's interesting what's happening here.
There are fanatics on both sides looking to provoke a general cultural conflict, one that 90% of those on either side have no interest in and nothing to gain from.
Originally posted by Odium
As per-normal, Souljah raises a good point. Where is the War on Terrorism? Every so called terrorist group that they have gone after have been Islamic. I’ve yet to see them go after those in parts of Africa who are Christian. Why is it Islamic Nation’s are being attacked?
I don't think of him a s aChristians...any time you see me put the word Christian in quotes, I'm thinking of a pseudo-christian, and Bush is a "christian" The issue is he doing this FOR the cause of Christ or for the cause of America. Yes, we are a "christian" nation. Most of our people don't fight this for a "christian"cause, for all our relgious quoting.
Originally posted by Odium
President George W. Bush is a Christian. Do I really need to point out how many people have died in Iraq because of his actions? If all Muslims are responsible for all of their actions, all Christians are too. As per-normal, more death at present is on the hands of Non-Muslims than Muslims.
VERY IMPORTANT: We don't want to remember Hitler. When we forget, hisotry repeats itslef, and it gets worse every time it repeats.
Originally posted by doggmann
hasnt anyone noticed that the catholic church and the pope were slammed for not intervening nor speaking out against hitler and the nazi party, but now let him say that violence is wrong and everyone jumps up and down.why wouldnt a leader of a church have the right to speak against war? in light of tolerance, if we areto tolerate others beliefs and cultures then one must accept that not everyones opinion is to be the same. should no one say anything at all? will that make the problem go away?
Sister Leonella, 65, a nun who devoted her life to helping ill people in Africa, used to joke there was a bullet with her name engraved on it in Somalia. When the bullet came, she used her last breaths to forgive those responsible.
"I forgive, I forgive," she whispered in her native Italian just before she died Sunday in Mogadishu, the Somali capital, the Rev. Maloba Wesonga told the Associated Press at the nun's memorial mass Monday in Nairobi, Kenya.