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Originally posted by Pyros
Tell you what, partner. Give me some examples of Muslims preaching tolerance to Christianity and Judaism.
Or better yet........gie me some names. Names of world-famous Muslims. Great thinkers, scientists, artists, poets and writers. Names known all over the world in every household. Great Muslims who have contributed to the world society at large in meaningful ways. Show me 20 names I will recognize. One rule, however. They cannot be a political, military, or religious leader. Not an easy job, I bet.
Muslims are not unlike the Scientologists in their squelching of dissent, and their mockery and threats against those who would expose them.
The Pope is learning this first hand. Face it - your westernized Muslims with good jobs and freedom are not the concern. Its the millions of them who live east of the Med and West of China that are the concern.
I'm sorry if you think this sounds bigoted or ignorant. It really isn't. It's just the way it is. I'm sick and tired of dealing with a religion who cries foul at the slightest provocation, yet indoctrinates it's followers to distain and dominate all who do not believe.
And perhaps worst of all, those Muslims who are tolerant, educated, and economically self-sufficient......do absolutely NOTHING to allay my fears and suspicions. Either they secretly believe in what I suspect.....or they too are in fear of their radical bretheren.
(I.e. Spainards are better than others and only Spain shall prevail, and btw, Spain is ONLY catholic.)
The ONLY reason it is failing is because it's crumbling into a Socialist state (socialsist, in basic terms=democracy+communism),
Which is why I stated, AT MOST he was a pagan with a soft spot for Wagner.
Originally posted by xmotex
We all know that Islam is die or convert. This is there goal.
BS, pure and simple. If that were the goal of Islam as a whole, what's going on now would seem like a day in the park.
As it is, it is the goal of a very few fanatics, a fringe of a fringe.
Originally posted by xmotex
They are.
It just doesn't make for good TV.
Yes, we American Muslims will continue to challenge the Bush administrations’ proposal to wage war against Iraq. We think a regime change in Washington is as necessary as a regime change in Baghdad, but that is an intramural affair. Once the war is declared, make no mistake Mr. Saddam Hussein and Mr. Bin Laden, We are with America. We will fight with America and we will fight for America. We have a covenant with this nation, we see it as a divine commitment and we will not disobey the Quran (9:4) – we will fulfill our obligations as citizens to the land that opened its doors to us and promised us equality and dignity even though we have a different faith. I am sure Mr. Bin Laden, you can neither understand nor appreciate this willingness to accept and welcome the other.
Grand Sheikh Mohammed Sayed Tantawi of the Al-Azhar mosque of Cairo - which is seen as the highest authority in Sunni Islam - said groups which carried out suicide bombings were the enemies of Islam. Speaking at the conference in the Malaysian capital, Kuala Lumpur, Sheikh Tantawi said extremist Islamic groups had appropriated Islam and its notion of jihad, or holy struggle, for their own ends.
Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
You my friend have nailed it on the head...
that is exactly what Saudi Arabia is dealing with... a bunch of poor extremists with lots of men, with nothing to lose... and a fervent self righteous beleif system...
and lots of power among the people...
A previously unknown Muslim group calling itself "The Army of Guidance" pledged on Tuesday to strike at Christian targets in the Gaza Strip in retaliation for recent remarks by the pope deemed offensive by many Muslims.
"Every place relevant to Christians will be a target," said a statement from The Army of Guidance sent to news organizations in Gaza. "This will be until the accursed infidel, the Vatican, apologizes to Muslims."
Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
You my friend have nailed it on the head...
that is exactly what Saudi Arabia is dealing with... a bunch of poor extremists with lots of men, with nothing to lose... and a fervent self righteous beleif system...
and lots of power among the people...
Originally posted by Odium
RedGolem, as soon as they attack the targets they stop being Muslims. It's forbidden for Muslims to:
1. Kill or hurt women and children even if they are from the enemy
2. Kill the sick and elderly people even if they are from the enemy
3. Do not destroy hospitals
4. Do not cut down green tress
5. Do not contaminate water sources
6. Do not destroy the places of worship of other religions
Originally posted by Muaddib
When the main prophet and the inspiration of a religion raided caravans, killed and beheaded people, and took loot and slave wives, what do you think that tells many of the followers of that religion/way of life?
Originally posted by Muaddib
When the main prophet and the inspiration of a religion raided caravans, killed and beheaded people, and took loot and slave wives, what do you think that tells many of the followers of that religion/way of life?
War
The biblical God is guilty of wartime atrocities. After bringing the Israelites out of captivity in Egypt, he ordered them to attack King Sihon of Heshbon. So the Israelites "put to death everyone in the cities, men, women, and dependents" and "left no survivor." Deuteronomy 2:31-34
God then told them to do the same to King Og of Bashan. The Israelites therefore "slaughtered them and left no survivor." Deuteronomy 3:1-7
At God's command, the Israelites made war on Midian and slew all the men and burned their cities. Numbers 31:7-12 But Moses was angry because they had spared the women and children. So he ordered the soldiers to "kill every male dependent, and kill every woman who has had intercourse with a man, but spare for yourselves every woman among them who has not had intercourse." Numbers 31:14-18 Shortly thereafter, God gave Moses instructions for distributing the captive virgins among the fighting men and the community. Numbers 31:25-47
In resettling the Israelites after the Egyptian sojourn, God instructed them to steal the land of seven nations. And he told them to "not leave any creature alive. You shall annihilate them. . . ." Deuteronomy 7:1-6;20:16-17
source
Footnotes expanded
Originally posted by Muaddib
Things that make you go humm huh?...
Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Muslims as people are not evil.
The religion the follow is evil.
It is your personal character that can either defeat the evil religion, or succumb to it.
Like the force, you chose to fight it, or you chose to accept it.
If you accept it, you are bound by your new faith to to continue its growth.
- The position of the Pope concerning Islam is unequivocally that expressed by the conciliar document Nostra Aetate: "The Church regards with esteem also the Muslims. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all-powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth, Who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting" (no. 3).
Originally posted by Muaddib
There have been many atrocities because of Christianity, Judaism and other religions most of which have happened in the ancient past, mostly because some of teachings of the old books from some religions, and in many cases people distorting the true teachings of the prophets/messiahs from those religions.
[edit on 20-9-2006 by Muaddib]