Speech From Pope Outrages Muslim Leaders, page 1

privacy

Pages: << 1 2 3 4 >>
ATS Members have flagged this thread 1 times

Topic started on 14-9-2006 @ 02:51 PM by RedGolem

Muslim leaders strongly criticized a speech that Pope Benedict gave in Germany as he arrived back in Rome. It is being said that the speech used unflattering language about Islam and violence. Some of the strongest words came from a cleric who is the head of the Turkish government's directorate of religious affairs. This alone could jeopardize a scheduled visit to Turkey in November. Turkey was not alone, there also came criticism from Pakistan, Morocco, and Kuwait, Germany, and France. The Vatican has not responded Criticism of the Pope's speech. More is expected to be known on Friday as it is the day of prayer.

www.nytimes.com
“I do not think any good will come from the visit to the Muslim world of a person who has such ideas about Islam’s prophet,” Ali Bardakoglu, a cleric who is head of the Turkish government’s directorate of religious affairs, said in a television interview there. “He should first of all replace the grudge in his heart with moral values and respect for the other.”

Muslim leaders in Pakistan, Morocco and Kuwait, in addition to those in Germany and France, also criticized the pope’s remarks, with many demanding an apology or clarification. The extent of any anger about the speech may become clearer on Friday, the Muslim day of prayer in which grievances are often vented publicly.

The Vatican did not respond today, as the pope returned from his six-day trip to his homeland, Germany, to the criticism of his speech. On Tuesday, Benedict delivered a major address — which some church experts say was a defining speech of his pontificate — saying that the West, and specifically Europe, had become so beholden to reason that it had closed God out of public life, science and academia.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

First I got to agree with one comment, that it is best for spiritual leaders not to comment on other religions. But what did surprise me was the statement from the cleric who said "he should first of all replace the grudge in his hears with moral values and respect for the other." So a cleric just told a 79 year old virgin pope that he needs moral values. With all the secular violence going on in the middle east it would defiantly seem that statement would be better said to people inside the Muslim faith then the pope of the Catholic church.

Related News Links:
www.chron.com
www.agi.it
www.bloggernews.net

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Pope Sticks his Nose were it Doesn't Belong (attacks Canada)
Islamic Conversion Forced on Fox Journalist's for Freedom!

[edit on 3-12-2006 by UM_Gazz]

reply posted on 14-9-2006 @ 03:20 PM by mythatsabigprobe

Your source requires registration, can you add another source? I heard a little about this on the radio today, apparently the Pope quoted a 14th century figurehead saying something like Mohammed never came up with anything new that wasn't evil and his whole religion revolved around the sword. I'd like to confirm that but I can't read your source article.

You also might want to check your spelling. Red Golem? Always great news, always bad spelling..

[edit on 9/14/2006 by mythatsabigprobe]

reply posted on 14-9-2006 @ 03:27 PM by mythatsabigprobe

edit: ok, found it in your related links.

www.chron.com...
In a speech Tuesday, the pope quoted from a book recounting a conversation between 14th century Byzantine Christian Emperor Manuel Paleologos II and an educated Persian on the truths of Islam and Christianity.

"The emperor comes to speak about the issue of jihad, holy war," the pope said.

"He said, I quote, 'Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.'"

Clearly aware of the delicacy of the issue, Benedict said "I quote" twice before pronouncing the phrases on Islam and described them as "brusque," while neither explicitly agreeing with nor repudiating them.

reply posted on 14-9-2006 @ 03:40 PM by Vitchilo

And did he mentionned that Christians also did this? Killing millions of people because they were infidels? Pope, STFU.

reply posted on 14-9-2006 @ 03:43 PM by RedGolem

Glad you found another sorce. I did not have any trouble with the first sorce

I do think this will lead to an interesting chain of events.
I know I can't spell

But I did runt the opening paragraphs through a spell checker, so I thought I got them all, what did I miss?

reply posted on 14-9-2006 @ 03:45 PM by djohnsto77

I'm a Protestant and think the Pope is pretty much a nincompoop anyway, who really cares what he says, let alone non-Christians?

reply posted on 14-9-2006 @ 03:48 PM by ThinksYouAreAnIdiot

Originally posted by Vitchilo
And did he mentionned that Christians also did this? Killing millions of people because they were infidels? Pope, STFU.

Maybe, but only muslims are still doing it.
Along with slavetrading, vaginal circumcisions, executing gays for homosexuality, genocidal racial purges, and stoning women for being raped.

reply posted on 14-9-2006 @ 03:50 PM by RedGolem

Vitchilo,
I did not read where he adressed that, but the previous Pope did at the turn of the milinea. He did apoligise for the crimes of the church in the past, as well as for turning a blind eye to the horrends acts of governments during bad times, such as WW2.
So perhaps this is the new methed of the pope for comenting on world afairs.

And as to the killing because of religen and forced convershens I am glad that Christions have gotten away from that.

And I dont think Christions use the term infidel, I think they use hethen

reply posted on 14-9-2006 @ 03:50 PM by forestlady

Originally posted by RedGolem
So a cleric just told a 79 year old virgin pope that he needs moral values. With all the secular violence going on in the middle east it would defiantly seem that statement would be better said to people inside the Muslim faith then the pope of the Catholic church.

Firstly, I do not think that being a 79 y.o. virgin, in itself, qualifies ANYONE to be considered "moral". Morals also include how you treat other people. Without knowing more about this, it seems a poor choice for the Pope to quote from. He is only adding fuel to the fire.

I have known many Moslem people, most of them devoute Moslems and they are some of the finest people I've ever known, same as Christians who are truly living the way Jesus wants us to; without hate, prejudice or greed, but to be forgiving and nonjudgmental. I'm not saying they are all good, same as everyone else has their bad apples. But I do think Moslems have been badly portrayed in the U.S.

reply posted on 14-9-2006 @ 04:04 PM by Knights

Originally posted by ThinksYouAreAnIdiot

Originally posted by Vitchilo
And did he mentionned that Christians also did this? Killing millions of people because they were infidels? Pope, STFU.

Maybe, but only muslims are still doing it.
Along with slavetrading, vaginal circumcisions, executing gays for homosexuality, genocidal racial purges, and stoning women for being raped.

I have to admit i'm not quite up to scratch with religious violence but i'm sure Christians are still active in killings/ bombings etc.

I can't find a link but I had the idea that mass murders were still regulary being fought in the 'name of God' in Africa/ parts of Asia?

reply posted on 14-9-2006 @ 04:08 PM by Vitchilo

Christians extremists are bombing abortion clinics in the USA and killing doctors who perform them. They are in an organisation, but the government isn't against them... why? Because it's the base of the pro-republicans voters. Even if they kill, it's not important, as soon as they vote for the neo-cons.

[edit on 14-9-2006 by Vitchilo]

reply posted on 14-9-2006 @ 04:08 PM by mythatsabigprobe

Originally posted by RedGolem
Glad you found another sorce. I did not have any trouble with the first sorce

Most likely you've registered with the NYTimes sometime in the past. When I try to read any of their articles it asks me to register first, so I don't bother.

I thought I got them all, what did I miss?

Just the end of the first sentence, "Roam" instead of "Rome". It's no biggie and don't let it put you off posting your great articles.

On topic, it's interesting that there was a negative image of Islam in the 14th Century considering the Christians were at their most bloodthirsty then.

reply posted on 14-9-2006 @ 04:22 PM by Vitchilo

In the 14th century? Not in the 16th? When they killed the aztecs and indians? Did they killed more during the crusaders or during the colonization? And also during the crusaders... and during the ``witch-time``.

[edit on 14-9-2006 by Vitchilo]

reply posted on 14-9-2006 @ 04:31 PM by LazarusTheLong

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Christians extremists are bombing abortion clinics in the USA and killing doctors who performe them. They are in an organisation, but the government isn't against them... why? Because it's the base of the pro-republicans voters. Even if they kill, it's not important, as soon as they vote for the neo-cons.

You my friend have nailed it on the head...

that is exactly what Saudi Arabia is dealing with... a bunch of poor extremists with lots of men, with nothing to lose... and a fervent self righteous beleif system...
and lots of power among the people...

the pope should know better than to tell the truth to a bunch of pissed people with nothing to lose...

now what kind of nonsense is Pat robertson saying these days?... surely he will try to one up the pope on crazy talk...

reply posted on 14-9-2006 @ 07:57 PM by RedGolem

Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe

Just the end of the first sentence, "Roam" instead of "Rome". It's no biggie and don't let it put you off posting your great articles.

Ok and thanks a lot for the complement

This story will be evalving and it will be interesting to see where it goes.

reply posted on 14-9-2006 @ 08:05 PM by RedGolem

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong

the pope should know better than to tell the truth to a bunch of pissed people with nothing to lose...

now what kind of nonsense is Pat robertson saying these days?... surely he will try to one up the pope on crazy talk...

Interesting way you put the part about telling the truth Lazarus. But I would guess that many people will agree with you.

I don't know if Pat Robertson will be trying to one up the pope or not. It would not suprise me and I dont think he has help back on any of his speeches before. Hopefully I will come across what he does say about it and I will post it hear.

reply posted on 14-9-2006 @ 08:15 PM by Dallas

Dunno.. but suggest the reaction to the Muslim reaction speaks for itself maybe? Are we as a civilization growing weary to the point of being concerned of how the Muslim world may accept or not accept a Catholic Pontiffs thoughts and words?

Sure the World's changed since 9/11 for sure and certainly I'm not losing sight of that. Just kinda wondering if the thoughts of extreme religious beliefs of the same religion as the killers were/are is more on the mind of the Western world than we should allow it to be? Have we already began sinking into a semi-isolation.

Dallas

reply posted on 14-9-2006 @ 11:32 PM by Ezekiel

Originally posted by Vitchilo
And did he mentionned that Christians also did this? Killing millions of people because they were infidels? Pope, STFU.

Christians DID this - Muslims are still DOING this.

Along with all the other stuff that was metioned a few posts up by Thinksyouranidiot.

I get really sick of this argument.

"Well christians did it too!"

Yes but they grew up and realised it was wrong. Some Muslim nations havent seemed to have realised that yet.

reply posted on 15-9-2006 @ 12:15 AM by makeitso

Here is the full transcript of the Pope's speach.

His last sentence should help you understand the overall context of the speach.

It is to this great logos, to this breadth of reason, that we invite our partners in the dialogue of cultures.

makeitso

reply posted on 15-9-2006 @ 04:11 AM by RedGolem

Originally posted by Ezekiel

I get really sick of this argument.

"Well christians did it too!"

Yes but they grew up and realised it was wrong. Some Muslim nations havent seemed to have realised that yet.

Ezekiel,
Yes this is true, I was pondering how to say that also.
Thanks for makeing the statment.