Protesters pull down Confederate statue at old Durham County courthouse

originally posted by: Guyfriday

originally posted by: clay2 baraka

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: IAMTAT
I've seen more condemnation over the destruction of this statue and concern over its fate from many right-wing posters on this site than I have seen concern over the death and maiming of human beings or condemnation of the neo-Nazi terrorist that plowed over those people with his car.

Yeah.. Isn't that interesting..

Not really. It's horrid that people were hurt and killed by this act of stupidity, but those people (all of them regardless of race and whatever) were there by choice. They didn't show up to protest peaceably, they showed up for a conflict. If they didn't know that they could get hurt or killed, then they're stupid for going. This isn't like in the 60's when people would go to these rallies and peaceably protest the wrongs in society. No this is clearly people wanting to be violent, to force their opinion on others, and to play the victim when called out on it.

Both sides are to blame for the deaths and injuries that occurred, and even the local government shares in that blame, but do you think anyone will say; "maybe we did take it too far?", or are they going to say; "It's the other side's fault for disagreeing with us, because we're right!"

This event and the other events that occurred over the weekend make me sick. At what point do we no longer have an "America", but instead just have an "Ameropocalypse"?

Finally a voice of reason. Awesome post.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: JinMI

How long will it be before it's open season on any symbol the howling, unwashed mob of ignorant savages deems offensive because it exists?

Churches and synagogues better get some darn good security in place.

Museums are full of inconvenient truths. Will they be on the list? Or perhaps it will be very selective. Libraries are full of the same. Buildings? Bridges?

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Teikiatsu
Y'know, every original colony had slaves at one point... and many of the later states. We should burn them to ash.

Need to rip down anything African and Dutch since the slaves were sold to the Dutch slave traders by African tribes that had them...you know that place that didn't stop institutionalized slavery until the 1930s?

We need to destroy all things from the Democratic Party because they started the KKK.

a reply to: Abysha

What other art work is next?

We're already setting a precedent and some are encouraged by this.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

It doesn't anymore than being at a drunken party justifies a rape, but at some point, you have some responsibility on yourself for assessing the risks you are taking.

How many people are going to go get sh!tfaced and be stupid enough to think absolutely nothing could happen to them?

Same thing here. Who would be stupid enough to see two angry groups of protesters and think nothing could possibly happen to you?

originally posted by: kruphix

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: kruphix

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: kruphix
a reply to: Abysha

Tearing down statues is a long tradition of symbolizing victory.

Were the Sons of Liberty like ISIS when they tore down the statue of King George in New York???

No but a statue of a random soldier in Durham isn't a statue of King George in New York.

Like I said, it's about picking your battles.

It's tearing down a symbol...it's the same thing.

If you don't support one, you can't support the other. You can't say the Sons of Liberty were justified but these protesters aren't. That is just illogical.

I support the ideology of tearing down symbols of hate, in general. But the Sons of Liberty had no legal recourse.

We do.

And that legal recourse has failed, been blocked, and even when it does win it is met with protests and threats of violence.

When the legal recourse fails...then the people speak.

But it hasn't failed. Efforts to remove symbols of past enemies (like confederates) has been increasingly successful. Efforts to separate symbols of church from state (like ten commandments) have been successful.

And the protests and threats of violence when we are successful? Like I said earlier, they just look like assholes and that makes us even more successful.

Now... hypothetically, if an amendment passed that stated we no longer have a legal recourse to remove symbols of state enemies? Then yes. Like I said I would say before, "Apply more anarchists, please".

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Deaf Alien

Anyone who showed up at either protest should have known what they were risking. Both groups were looking for trouble.

That does not justify the murder.

There is no justification to the murder, sadly. There also is nothing to absolve any of the groups involved.

a reply to: ketsuko

We should be able to attend rallies and not expect to be murdered.

a reply to: JacKatMtn

WHY and WHO wants to BRING THAT BACK...?

You know just as well as I. The one's that can't deal with regime change.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: ketsuko

We should be able to attend rallies and not expect to be murdered.

Peaceful protests, yes.

But this was not peaceful, nor was it a protest. The cops did nothing. The local government did nothing.

Two hate=filled groups fought and a young woman was killed by a Nazi dirtbag.

originally posted by: IAMTAT

Apparently, we should only have statues and monuments to "good" history...and then, only good history that nobody finds offensive.

Point being....

WHO has the authority to decide what is good and what is bad.

WHO is right and who is wrong

Things change over time, and whether right or wrong these things

serve as markers ... they were ... its history?

Just because the bad is removed and cannot be seen doesn't mean

it never happened.

Haven't read the entire thread, my family here since 1621, yes we owned slaves. It is time for people to stand up and admit racism exists, and yeah it still does.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: ketsuko

We should be able to attend rallies and not expect to be murdered.

Peaceful protests, yes.

But this was not peaceful, nor was it a protest. The cops did nothing. The local government did nothing.

Two hate=filled groups fought and a young woman was killed by a Nazi dirtbag.

They were there to fight yes. But not to murder each other. Of course their will be black eyes, broken bones and blood. But murder? Come on.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: ketsuko

We should be able to attend rallies and not expect to be murdered.

Peaceful protests, yes.

But this was not peaceful, nor was it a protest. The cops did nothing. The local government did nothing.

Two hate=filled groups fought and a young woman was killed by a Nazi dirtbag.

They were there to fight yes. But not to murder each other. Of course their will be black eyes, broken bones and blood. But murder? Come on.

You're giving both sides too much credit.

They came armed to the teeth.

That war you are all babbling about lost family members on both sides, as I have every way from the revolution to WWII

a reply to: DBCowboy

But this was not peaceful, nor was it a protest. The cops did nothing. The local government did nothing.

Which hate group was there lawfully and which hate group was not?

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Abysha

What other art work is next?

We're already setting a precedent and some are encouraged by this.

Could you expand on that?

I was talking about legally relocating "art" to places where they can be objects of education (and appreciation for some, I'm sure). When they are publicly on display, they make statements about the people who live there. What if that statement is counter to the core values of that community?

For example, if there was a statue of Baphomet in the middle of the Vatican... I wouldn't be all that confused when they moved it to a museum. I'd be a bit heartbroken if a bunch of Catholic rebels tore it down but it doesn't exactly need to stay there.

a reply to: BubbaJoe

Being as it may, a statue is not the cause nor does it continually perpetrate it.

Are statues of Grant next?

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: ketsuko

We should be able to attend rallies and not expect to be murdered.

We should be able to attend parties and not expect to be raped either.

But hey, welcome to reality!

This is what happens when you have groups who have decided that the way to counter-protest is to try to intimidate and physically threaten a person or group so that they back down and don't speak at all. Then you have a group like this one who comes in determined to not back down and start something if that's what it takes to do what they came to do.

You get big ugly fights, and if you choose to attend on either side, you are taking a risk with your health and possibly your life now. And I don't think it much matters which side we are talking about.

There simply is no respect for the idea that people have the right to say their piece and go back where they came from. Now we have this idea that it's somehow heroic to stir crap up if we don't like them or their message because those ideas cannot be uttered.

And I don't much care what those ideas are ... it's the attempt to silence through violence and intimidation I cannot stand. If it doesn't stop, more will die, and I have been saying that for a while ... since the campaign ... that this was where we were heading because of this behavior.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: ketsuko

We should be able to attend rallies and not expect to be murdered.

Peaceful protests, yes.

But this was not peaceful, nor was it a protest. The cops did nothing. The local government did nothing.

Two hate=filled groups fought and a young woman was killed by a Nazi dirtbag.

They were there to fight yes. But not to murder each other. Of course their will be black eyes, broken bones and blood. But murder? Come on.

You're giving both sides too much credit.

They came armed to the teeth.

I know. The point is the seemingly justification of murder "because they were there for the conflict so that's their fault".