God creates us and loves us but if you're gay you go to hell?

originally posted by: auto3000
But WE have to forgive to go to heaven? God is in control of everything. He creates each one of us in His image, although some of us are born gay. And if we practice a gay lifestyle we are damned to hell to burn and be tortured for eternity. Why can't he make it not so, if he loves us so that we are with him in heaven because that is what he wants. So if you are gay you are condemned to a life alone to never feel love or affection to what you know as normal. A man just doesn't wake up one day and say hey I want to wear a dress and be with a man. These children are being born this way. Not the girls that play around and think it's cute, but the for real I'm in the wrong body type. What have they done to deserve this and shouldn't God being the understanding God He is be forgiving and want us to experience life at it's fullest and to be happy here on earth? So I'm born gay and if I do what I feel is right and normal and brings me happiness in this life I will burn forever? For the record, I am not gay. I would like to hear what my ATS family feels on this matter.

No, you don't have to forgive to go to heaven, you have to repent and be forgiven.

God created Adam and Eve in His image. Let's not forget that the flood occurred in Genesis 7, which means we all descended from Noah's children. God destroyed mankind once because things got so bad in the world that men were lost in sin (Genesis 6:5 - And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.)

To put some perspective on the mentions about homosexuality in the Bible, first look at Leviticus, which is a book containing instructions given to Moses from God (after having built the tabernacle mentioned in Exodus). These are known as the Mosaic laws, which were "nailed to the cross" when Jesus died. However, it is also mentioned in the New Testament several times (Romans 1:26–27, 1 Corinthians 6:9–10, and 1 Timothy 1:9–10, Jude 1:7).

When we talk about sin... sin is the transgression of the law (God's Law; Ten Commandments), but taken as a whole, the Bible is a map for understanding God's desire for us to be righteous beings, looking to Him and turning away from sin.

Let's not forget, Adam and Eve once lived in a time when sin didn't exist. It' s because of sin that the world was corrupted and things changed across the board. Man is predisposed to sin, so it makes sense that all aspects of human development, from the outset, could result in sinful nature.

We are sinful creatures, but if we read God's Word (the Bible), seek Jesus and ask for help, we can overcome sin, because we are filled with the Holy Spirit which guides us in our lives and wipes clean the slate, eliminating the bad influences and replacing them with good.

There's one simple phrase all should keep in mind... "God is love." God has always been love, but men's corrupt and sinful hearts refuse to see it. All men, even angels (before men were even created) are given free will and God has given us all the room we need to make our own choices in life. To turn to Him and not sin or to turn away from Him and live a sinful life. It really does boil down to that.

Now, if you don't believe the Bible is God's Word, then you've already closed your heart to the message you can find within those pages. It's a message of hope, love and everlasting life.

Those that say that God lets things happen, lets people die, etc... fail to take into consideration that it was man who sinned and turned away from God and has been doing so since that first fatal mistake. God has bent over backwards to provide ways to overcome sin and come back to Him (even sending his own son to die for us, then resurrecting him to be a mediator for us in heaven), but people would rather snub their nose at His message and call it fairy tales.

Every thing people complain about, in this thread, and blame on God, can be put square on the actions of men, not God, because it is men that have created this long history of disobedience.

It'll all come out in the wash eventually. Me, I'll be on the right side, with God. Each man must make his choice, but must also live with the consequences. Sin is alive and well and will be until the end. How you deal with it determines your fate.

originally posted by: TAECOLE7
I have NO clue where your reasoning comes from, wow.

The reasoning comes right out of the scriptures.

Begin with Genesis:

....God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth... KJV, Genesis 1:28

That word "replenish", is the first clue.

God did not tell Adam and Eve just to multiply and "fill" the earth with their descendants, but to "replenish" the earth.

That tells us immediately, that this was "not the first time man was created and walked the earth."

Humans were being "re-introduced once again" and told to "replenish" the earth "once more" with a new human population.

We are in a "time cycle". These things happen over and over again.

The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. -- KJV, Ecclesiastes 1:9

Everything we're doing now has been done before.


The Bible also tells us how to "read the time cycle."

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: -- KJV, Genesis 1:14

This is "why" we have the Bible. It records "historical events that repeat". So, by reading the good book we know the future.

By reading the "scriptures" we can tell "what" will happen in the "future".

By reading the "stars" we can tell "when" things will happen "again."

That's how the three wise men knew "when" Jesus was born. They looked at the pattern of the lights in the heaven, and read the time correctly. Jesus always comes at the same time in the cycle. Every 7,000 years Jesus comes "twice." The first time Jesus comes (2000 years ago) he plants a "seed", which is the "message" to mankind. The second time Jesus comes, (1,500 years from today), is to reap the harvest, and collect his flock. The cycle is 7000 years long. Six days the Lord creates the world "the growing season", and the Seventh day of rest, then the harvest, and we're done.

Each day is 1000 years. [2 Peter 3:8].

During that time, Jesus dies and is resurrected in 3 1/2 days. That's a "return" every 3,500 years, or twice in the cycle.

Man is "planted" on earth.

'The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. -- KJV, Matthew 13:38-40

So, as the scriptures indicate, mankind is a "crop" planted on earth, and just like a "crop" there is a "planting season", a "growing season", and a "harvest" when the souls are reaped.

We are in the "growing season."

After the end of this world, a new world is begun. The time cycle repeats, the "crop" is planted again, as indicated in the Book of Genesis, mankind is once again introduced to the earth, and told to "replenish" the earth. As indicated in Ecclesiastes, there's nothing new under the sun, everything we have seen comes around once again.

All of the information is in the Bible.


Daniel tells us what must happen "before" the end of the world comes,

But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. -- KJV, Daniel 12:4

People will be travelling alot, and most importantly "Knowledge" must be increased.

Well, we're always increasing knowledge, so how much knowledge do we need to get before the end comes?

That's where "as it was in the beginning, so it will be in the ending" give us the clue.

We turn to the book of Genesis to find out what was happening in the beginning. Because that must happen in the ending too.

And in the beginning man was being created in the image of his creator. So, before the end comes, man has to get sufficient genetic engineering knowledge of how to re-create himself in his own image once again, to repeat that event in the book of Genesis.

That's 1,000 years from today. We still have a long way to go.

But, look around, see what is happening in the society in which you live, and you'll be able to see where we are in the time cycle.

We are in the LGBT times. President Obama just legalized Gay and Lesbian marriage. That's our reference point, to see where we are, and what is coming next.

And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times? -- KJV, Matthew 16:3

Can't you see what times we are in?

Think about the changes in science and the changes in the social environment that's taking place right in front your eyes, today.

a reply to: Freth

"God is love.

sure sure

www.judiciaryreport.com...

Gods Justice eh ?

a reply to: AMPTAH

Sooooo

At approaching 7 billion people, wars raging everywhere, crushing poverty in some places while others live on obscene luxury do you really think that the world needs 'replenishing' ??

Every single problem on this planet starts with human activity and yet you pull that one out of the bag and claim that we must all be straight in order to breed more problem makers because it is God's will?

Real smart.

originally posted by: markosity1973
a reply to: AMPTAH

Sooooo

At approaching 7 billion people, wars raging everywhere, crushing poverty in some places while others live on obscene luxury do you really think that the world needs 'replenishing' ??
:

God doesn't care about the flesh, and about material things. He is harvesting "souls".

All the "problems" you see around you, are things concerning the flesh.

And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. -- KJV, Genesis 6:13

God is not trying to preserve the flesh.

For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: -- KJV, 1 Peter 1:24

So, there's violence everywhere...but, the book says...

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. -- KJV, Matthew 10:28

The book is coherent and consistent, and all the answers are right there.

originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: TzarChasm

the homosexuals i have met are pretty adamant that heterosexual activities are just as gross. its all a matter of perspective, really. but "i cant do that, its against my religion" is infinitely more preferable to "you cant do that, its against my religion". one is freedom of religion, the other is oppression of civil rights.

The Bible says that, at the end of the world, there will only be males.

As it was in the beginning, so it shall be in the ending.

Before the creation of "Adam and Eve", those who created man in their own image, were all male.

We know this, because "The Sons of God, saw the Daughters of men" that they were beautiful, and took them as wives. But, that only happens "after" heterosexual humankind had been "recreated" in the image of the ELOHIM (plural). There were no "Daughers of God", only "Sons of God." They decided to "re-introduce" the female body type for the new generation of humans. This used to be a great puzzle. What happened to all the women?

Today, we can understand how that happens. Gay men have no use for women, and lesbians have no need for men.

About the only reason to have women around today, is to bare children for the next generation.

But, science is developing rapidly, and we're now able to create new forms of life, and use technology to do the things that nature used to do for us. Already, we're doing artificial insemination; we'll be able to create babies in the lab soon.

As soon as we start doing this in the laboratory, and engineering fetal development in "vats" of liquid nutrients, the female body type becomes "obsolete."

Given that the male body type has fewer "problems" than the female body type, our future humans will decide to eliminate one of the redundant genders. That's going to be the female type, with all it's PMS and menstrural problems, and weaker muscular structure, etc..

This is how the male becomes dominant. It first starts out with the LGBT movement, which changes our idea of what "gender" is, and prepares us all for the day when we have to make that critical decision about "why do we need all these redundant genders". Especially, given all the social conflicts, with restroom battles, and workplace harassment, and military prejudices, etc...that this "confusion" causes.

So, we're going to solve the problem, Donald Trump style, and "authoritarianly decree that there shall only be one", which will be the male.

So, LGBT have a spiritual purpose, to put us on the path to eventually eliminate all but the male design.

maybe science will enable us to become an androgynous species. sounds to me like a fascinating plot twist.

a reply to: AMPTAH



You guys.... Lol just lol.

When the bible was written it was definitely a case of 'populate or perish.'

Nowadays there is a very real danger of 'populate and perish.'

Are you a lemming or are you able to think for yourself? Because the lemming mentality you are espousing means that we are all about to go over a cliff. It's conscious suicide because you think it is what God wants.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE
What about people born to be left-handed?

Left handed people are more intelligent than right handed people. Not because there's anything inherent in the left hand genes, but precisely because society accepts right handed people and caters to their needs better than left handed people. So, the left handed people "become aware" of things that right handed people are oblivious to, because right handed people never had to think about these things.

It bring us back to an old and mysterious paradox: Is a Blessing better than a Curse?

originally posted by: TzarChasm

maybe science will enable us to become an androgynous species. sounds to me like a fascinating plot twist.

Then life may become too boring.

All of the entertaining movies we watch, are only interesting to watch because they deal with all the conflicts that arise from our differences.

Can we improve on God's design?

It's too early to tell.

1,000 years from now, we can try something new.

originally posted by: markosity1973

Nowadays there is a very real danger of 'populate and perish.'

The flesh perishes either way.

That's the whole point of the Bible.

The main message of the Bible is to look beyond the flesh.

It's also why the Bible says,

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. -- KJV, Matthew 7:6

The "dogs" represent people who are so consumed by "lust" that they cannot understand the message. For in their hearts, the flesh is the most important thing, and their value system blocks their ability to see the truth. They are more likely to attack you, for revealing the truth to them, than to praise you for your efforts to enlighten them, because they have their own truth.

originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: TzarChasm

maybe science will enable us to become an androgynous species. sounds to me like a fascinating plot twist.

Then life may become too boring.

All of the entertaining movies we watch, are only interesting to watch because they deal with all the conflicts that arise from our differences.

Can we improve on God's design?

It's too early to tell.

1,000 years from now, we can try something new.

first off, boredom is more a reflection of the individual(s) than the situation. secondly, i dont know about improving on designs, just resolving previous conflicts creatively and amicably and permanently...or more permanently anyway. its always too early to tell but never too early to try. trying now means you are more prepared later, even if its just a little.

a reply to: auto3000

Just respond back whenever you get a chance, here's the question: The God of the Holy Bible, what must his standards be based upon?

the ideals of man at that time period

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: auto3000

Just respond back whenever you get a chance, here's the question: The God of the Holy Bible, what must his standards be based upon?

the ideals of man at that time period

Why must a claimed absolute be subject to man's contingent ideas?...doesn't that lack principle?

a reply to: auto3000

which "claimed absolute" would you be referring to?

a reply to: TzarChasm

All I said is "I think". And your retort on perspectives
is irrelevant to that.

Interestingly, Jesus saw the ailment of 'self-centeredness plague' not only in wrongdoers
but also the righteous, who had become more absorbed with ensuring their holiness than
in aiding those in need.9

--
Muesse, Mark W.: Confucius, Buddha, Jesus, and Muhammad. (Virginia: The Great Courses, 2010)

a reply to: auto3000

Sorry I am going to need proof that this is Jehovah's will. Not some uptight clerics My Gods are less uptight, and as a consequence, expect you to own your own mistakes, not rely on amorphous little laws.

We're all sinners. Period. It says so in the Bible.

Nobody is without sin, so therefore why do people care what form that sin takes?

I've had many gay friends over the years, and I have never known a more scared group of people, that just want people to but the hell out of their personal lives.

I say go for it. If you're relying on Religion to judge your personal sexual feelings on, then I think that Christianity is fractured and splintered enough you'll find a denomination that fully allows it. Unitarian perhaps?

I love how the Bible is interpreted in so many ways that Christianity couldn't even remain intact. Funny that.

For that matter, Homosexuality isn't even one of the Big 10.

a reply to: auto3000

10 “‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death. 11 “‘If a man has sexual relations with his father’s wife, he has dishonored his father. Both the man and the woman are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. 12 “‘If a man has sexual relations with his daughter-in-law, both of them are to be put to death. What they have done is a perversion; their blood will be on their own heads. 13 “‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. 14 “‘If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. Both he and they must be burned in the fire, so that no wickedness will be among you. 15 “‘If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he is to be put to death, and you must kill the animal. 16 “‘If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Why are you singling out homosexuality. All sexual morality has the same consequence. This doesn't show that homosexual intercourse is any different than premarital intercourse or incest. They are all sexually immoral acts. They all are a sin, and yet they can all be forgiven thru Christ.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: auto3000

which "claimed absolute" would you be referring to?

God