Jesus Didn't Die For Your Sins to be Forgiven

a reply to: Akragon

Who isn't our neighbor and where does Jesus say there are people who aren't neighbors? If our enemies are not our neighbors, Jesus still tells us to love our enemies and those who persecute us.

In my opinion, everyone is your neighbor and you should love them all the same. Don't hate those in power, they will get their karma, either in this life or the next. In most cases people are products of their environment, especially those in power with their tendency to lie. That's all they've known and maybe even how they were raised to insure the same families stay in power.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I was wondering if he might know this one, but since everyone is asking...

Luke 10

25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.

31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.

32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.

33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,

34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.

35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.

36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?

37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

I am glad I was told to stay on topic so that everyone else could speak off-topic freely and without any answer.

Says a lot.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

I asked Everyone to stay on topic and stop making the thread about you, including you. Your last post is maintaing the same pattern.

"I hope you and the others understand and maybe take it to another thread about you I have been enjoying the discussions so far. "

I left the thread as a result of it not happening.

Uhh Jesus died for all of our sins so we can forgive each other and repent and be forgiven of sins.....GOOD LORD PEOPLE DO NOT UNDERSTSNAD THE BIBLE AT ALL.

YOU MUST REPENT and mean it or you do not find salvation with Jesus.You must also forgive people in your heart or to them and not carry hatred.That is made possible because of Jesus sacrifice to save men from their sins.But you have to repent and say you are sorry.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Well, for starters you could support your acronyms and abbreviations with some kind of key so people can understand what you are talking about. And can you please explain who other than Catholic communities are responsible for Catholic doctrine? And what churches still existing today other than the Catholic Church which was present back then when these doctrines were made?

For enders I do not recognize a master of ceremonies that tells me what I am supposed to perform in the center ring of any circus I volunteer to perform in. You blame Catholics for Catholicism ? That's just crazy talk (name the persons responsible/monarchies/power brokers). Those 'organized idea forms' existing today that existed then/AND BEFORE; Judaism, The Egyptian Mystery Schools, Gnosticism, Paganism, Hinduism, Taoism, Buddhism, Confucianism. Communities responsible for Catholic doctrine; the Vatican comes to mind.

a reply to: Jobeycool

I forgive others and don't believe in Jesus' sacrifice so your explanation doesn't exactly work. Unless of course no one forgave anyone before Jesus came along. We all know that isn't true though.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Jobeycool

I forgive others and don't believe in Jesus' sacrifice so your explanation doesn't exactly work. Unless of course no one forgave anyone before Jesus came along. We all know that isn't true though.

Notice must also repent to Jesus or God.

a reply to: Jobeycool

What's that have to do with forgiveness? Repenting is the opposite of forgiveness. Asking for forgiveness is not the same as giving it.

If someone doesn't repent (a.k.a. believe in Jesus' sacrifice) does that mean they are unable to forgive people?

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Looks like it's time for your vitamins. You're delirious man. Can you please quit biting my leg or what ever you are trying to do? You don't even have teeth....

a reply to: vethumanbeing

When we forgive...is it always without doubt ? If you are tired of banging your head against one door should you not try others ? I thought in Christ it was Yes and Yes ? It would seem that forgiveness would set us free from the law because if we freely forgive we will be freely forgiven.

I would assume this is the" liberty" that Paul spoke of, that we have in Christ. But, I am not saying that it should be used as license for sin ( self destructive or other destructive behavior ). It is actually the way out. Sometimes we can be in places where we can no longer define what is the "right" path. As in the dividing of the bone and marrow.

originally posted by: HarryJoy
a reply to: vethumanbeing

If you are tired of banging your head against one door should you not try others ?

I'd say he should go for the brick wall. Works faster. Ptah.

a reply to: Akragon

In that case, how do we know the person we're helping is also neighborly? They could be the meanest person in the world and you wouldn't know it until after you helped them, so how are we to judge who is a neighbor and who isn't when it comes to strangers in need? If this was the basis for treating people as yourself then no one would ever treat anyone as a neighbor because very few help strangers out these days.

How was the good Samaritan to know the person in need was also worthy of being treated like a neighbor? If being a neighbor solely relies on if they have helped you then the Samaritan had no reason to treat him with kindness nor consider him a neighbor to be helped.

If we are to love our enemies and neighbors, that covers the entire spectrum, unless of course the middle ground is left out? But then why would Jesus tell us to love our enemies if he didn't mean everyone in-between as well? That doesn't really make much sense in my opinion.

I think what the parable means is that while everyone is a neighbor not everyone will act neighborly. The two that walked by didn't act very neighborly while the Samaritan did. The parable is not a statement on only a few being your neighbor, it's a statement on how being neighborly is achieved, which is why Jesus tells them to do the same as the Samaritan.

Love enemies and neighbors, that covers the entire spectrum and doesn't leave anyone out.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Good question... and as I always say, stick to what Jesus said

I would not abandon what you know my friend... There is nothing wrong with the idea that everyone is your neighbour, but there is a point where you will know if they are not... until that point continue on in the way you deem appropriate

Remember... know them by their fruits

originally posted by: HarryJoy
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing

When we forgive...is it always without doubt ? If you are tired of banging your head against one door should you not try others ? I thought in Christ it was Yes and Yes ? It would seem that forgiveness would set us free from the law because if we freely forgive we will be freely forgiven.
I would assume this is the" liberty" that Paul spoke of, that we have in Christ. But, I am not saying that it should be used as license for sin ( self destructive or other destructive behavior ). It is actually the way out. Sometimes we can be in places where we can no longer define what is the "right" path. As in the dividing of the bone and marrow.

Forgiveness is always given with no question; (without any doubt in the act of forgiving) otherwise there is no true forgiveness as has an element of falsity and kills the principle of the idea, doubt of belief is a handicap to all ideas. What is the seeking component that causes such desperateness (a need to understand and be in knowledge). Try others; yes because one will eventually open that door that has your name written upon it. The law is not a forgiving concept and there is no thing says you must forgive your accusers just to get out of a conviction (forgive your victims if guilty and process). God created this universe with the implicit idea of 'a justice attached' (Torah first book- genesis). Jesus's message was so simple and true "treat others as you would yourself as a moral responsible being" and measure your acts and the subsequent consequences thereof. You either are on the negative path or the positive.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing

Looks like it's time for your vitamins. You're delirious man. Can you please quit biting my leg or what ever you are trying to do? You don't even have teeth....

Tricky answer. I will answer this as a 'roan'. You are sitting at your kitchen window and see a human leading a cow past. You notice the nose, eyes; see the ears and neck, the back and the hindquarters; but did not see the tail. Why did you not see it?

2 Corinthians 5
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Paul says that we receive what we are due through what we "do" while in the body. This means we are judged by our actions and not by what we think or believe.

This is something else that flies in the face of faith being the determining factor in salvation, and from the spokesperson and founder of said ideology.

So basically, according to Paul (at least in this instance) we are rewarded or punished for what we do and not for what we believe.

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing

Looks like it's time for your vitamins. You're delirious man. Can you please quit biting my leg or what ever you are trying to do? You don't even have teeth....

Tricky answer. I will answer this as a 'roan'. You are sitting at your kitchen window and see a human leading a cow past. You notice the nose, eyes; see the ears and neck, the back and the hindquarters; but did not see the tail. Why did you not see it?

Well, I guess I was looking at the human, not the cow? What's your point?

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

2 Corinthians 5
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Paul says that we receive what we are due through what we "do" while in the body. This means we are judged by our actions and not by what we think or believe.

This is something else that flies in the face of faith being the determining factor in salvation, and from the spokesperson and founder of said ideology.

So basically, according to Paul (at least in this instance) we are rewarded or punished for what we do and not for what we believe.

Wow talk about botching the context.
Please read the whole chapter to find out who his audience is.

Let me take something out of context that most here hold sacred as an example of the frustration it makes.

Star Wars

I just watched the Star Wars episodes 1-6
I see at the end of Return of the Jedi young Anakin with an older Yoda and Obiwon. So I don't buy that Darth Vader was Luke's father, in fact if Anakin was indeed Vader, then Anakin never aged in the Vader suite.

How would you set me straight. What would you have to do in order to make clear that Vader was Anakin and was Luke's father.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing

Looks like it's time for your vitamins. You're delirious man. Can you please quit biting my leg or what ever you are trying to do? You don't even have teeth....

Tricky answer. I will answer this as a 'roan'. You are sitting at your kitchen window and see a human leading a cow past. You notice the nose, eyes; see the ears and neck, the back and the hindquarters; but did not see the tail. Why did you not see it?

Well, I guess I was looking at the human, not the cow? What's your point?

Focus on the cow (you blinked).