Jesus Didn't Die For Your Sins to be Forgiven

a reply to: Akragon

Its not the masses teaching me. I said all I can say I suppose. Take care.

Love is only one of the things God is. He is much more than just one thing. Jesus said For I have come to turn "'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law, a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Sounds like quite the home wrecker.

a reply to: zazzafrazz

No problem, And thanks for the reply. This is why ATS is awesome, we might have different views but at least we are not trying to be hateful and troll here. I didn't know you wanted a non-faith answer to a faith question, I could probably do it but it would take time and I would definitely have to pray on that. I just tried the best I could and tried to give the food store scenario to help. As I'm a believer it's hard not to add faith to everything. Because all humans are unique this is why perspective is also different for everyone and is so hard to gain because everyone experiences faith differently. God bless you and I hope you find the answers you need.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law, a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.

Taking this verse in context with a few others, this makes no sense.

Matthew 5
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you

Luke 14
26 If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple.

Jesus tells us to love our enemies then tells us to hate our father and mother and that our enemies will be members of our household.

So basically Jesus tells us to love our enemies but hate our own father and mother, but our enemies are the members of our household which IS our father and mother. So... love your enemies except if they're our father or mother (which are the enemies within our own household).

So to love our enemies or to hate them? That's the question.

Things like this are why I question the bible, too many contradictions that go unexplained.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Matthew 10:37
"Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.


It's not a contradiction. It is expressing that the commandment of the Lord comes before what your family wants. I was Muslim, so, do I follow what Muslims say for me to do? Or do I follow God?

God comes before family, friends, and men. But, in love of them, we forgive them anything they do to us, we give them anything they ask or need so long as what they ask or need does not violate God's commandments to us, to follow HIM and put HIM first above all things.

This is why loving neighbor as self is the lesser of the two commandments. But, God is also Just, and will not allow HIS people to be hurt and abused unto death forever ether.. that is also out of HIS love for HIS own.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Hi OB I think you are straying the discussion to your understanding of your new found 'saving' rather than discussing the OPs ' Jesus Didn't Die For Your Sins to be Forgiven' proposition.

Also lot of posters are encouraging the thread to drift to you.
I understand how it is to have found something good and new, and that is natural to wish to share it, but does that add value to the topic at hand in this thread?

I hope you and the others understand and maybe take it to another thread about you I have been enjoying the discussions so far.

Zazz

Back on course please?

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Sorry I was only rolling with the discussion that was being brought up. I will stop answering.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

You are right, like i said i think other posters have "encouraged " thread drifting to you . But please by all means answer if it is topic discussion. I hate to sound like a bossy boots, but this thread has interested me where religious ones have not for so long and I just want to enjoy it. So am being a wee bit selfish hoping to keep it on course.
thx

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Following the command of the lord is this:

30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”

Loving your neighbor as yourself is not the same as hating father and mother. If you follow the lords commands then you love your family, you don't hate them.

"There is no commandment greater than these." Jesus telling us to hate mother and father because we're supposed to put his commands over family is to ignore his command to love our family and neighbors as ourselves.

Jesus does not make one any "lesser" than the other, he puts both commands (love God and neighbor) on equal ground. One is no more important than another. You cannot love God if you do not love your neighbor and vice versa because:

Matthew 25
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

"If God tells me to kill someone then it's not God. "

I assume this is to illustrate a typical Christian reproach to answer the dilemma, and that...

He did it in the OT so why not now?

...would be a good way to reproach the reproach beyond reproach? I agree. Why wouldn't he? These people often claim God is a person, and that he has a personality disorder made by the Pope that splits him in three demanding that he is always in agreement with his Only Begotten Son (one Jesus Jackson who communicates with humanity by appearing on people's toasts), and a certain Ghost. A Holy One. No wonder why he wanted to have his Only Begotten killed..... Having to agree with your wife can be tough enough, try agreeing with a seven-fold (!) ghost AND a renegade bipolar rabbi who was last seen leaving for "Heaven", saying "I'll be back real soon!" and that was nearly 2000 years ago. I mean.... Either the pope knows exactly what he's doing OR this Trinity™ routine, and the judasgoat-human-sacrifice part behind this thread-- they must be the stupidest most revealing things ever to come out of the Vatican Empire.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim
The AUO allows for EVERYTHING; so to be exclusively naming the Vatican ONLY as the primary transgressor is incorrect. All other belief systems are equally responsible for misinformation/misdirection/subterfuge; and put "God" right there as the helmsman sharing in an equal opportunity finger pointing blame game.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

And all that is supposed to mean?

I have a question pertaining to the subject at hand.. IF.....we forgive other's their trespasses against us. Should we not be able to allow those same trespasses to exist in us and not feel condemnation?

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing

And all that is supposed to mean?

NOTHING for you apparently; as does not resonate/vibrate to your built in automatic frequency finding 'truth detector'; (found under ones left armpit).

originally posted by: HarryJoy
I have a question pertaining to the subject at hand.. IF.....we forgive other's their trespasses against us. Should we not be able to allow those same trespasses to exist in us and not feel condemnation?

I think it depends on your perspective; if self willed Ego driven Id say yes (if you do so without the slightest of doubts), if from an 'empathetic' (the others point of view), no. One would be in the commission of harming oneself.

screen.yahoo.com...

This is the answer to the question.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Its not the masses teaching me. I said all I can say I suppose. Take care.

I didn't say it was the masses teaching you... I said don't follow the masses... Christianity IS the mass

And im not saying don't be a Christian, or don't follow what you believe... Just don't be a typical Christian... Do it the right way or don't bother...For everyone's sake...

I guarantee you IF there is a hell (which I highly doubt) there are more Christians there then any other religion, race or creed combined

Love is only one of the things God is. He is much more than just one thing.

Obviously... it is love that brings us to HIM... BUT... To have John say something like that is important though

And it is That which the OT god lacks in every aspect of the word

Jesus said For I have come to turn "'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law, a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.

He said that because there are people who do not know Love...even those who might be close to you... and thus do not know God...

1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love

That DOES NOT mean you are to turn your back on them though...

And by the way, just like 3NL1GHT3N3D1 said... Jesus did not put the second commandment at a lesser status then the first... read Matthew 22

And the second is like onto the first... That is because by loving ones neighbour, you are loving God as well...

But you might be surprised to know that not everyone IS your neighbour...

a reply to: Akragon

How is not everyone your neighbor? I firmly believe in total & complete selflessness. This would in theory apply to all my neighbor/humans?

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Well, for starters you could support your acronyms and abbreviations with some kind of key so people can understand what you are talking about. And can you please explain who other than Catholic communities are responsible for Catholic doctrine? And what churches still existing today other than the Catholic Church which was present back then when these doctrines were made?

originally posted by: Eunuchorn
a reply to: Akragon

How is not everyone your neighbor? I firmly believe in total & complete selflessness. This would in theory apply to all my neighbor/humans?

Good question...

Most people actually think Jesus meant everyone is your neighbour... but that isn't the case...