Creationism Will be the End of Cristianity.

originally posted by: ArtemisE
a reply to: MystikMushroom

I have seriously considered being a pastapharien!!! Lmao

i am considering being a person but i'm having trouble with that cause everyone wants me to be them. i'm like, why? you be you and i'll be me and there we go. but no, my brain is supposedly someone else's real estate to plant their own damn buildings on. i didn't say you could build here, so live with it. wtf.

a reply to: BO XIAN

I see your point. It's a little difficult for me to defend the Old Testament because I'm not yet as familiar with it. But... Someone replied to me and said something about God not being omnipotent because he had to test Abraham. I won't say that I'm stumped, but it may require some additional thought before I respond. From what I gather, based on what you wrote me, it seems reasonable that the test was for Abraham's benefit, and perhaps God already knew the answer. That thinking would be consistent with the story of Job. God knew that Job would remain faithful through the trials and tribulations that the devil created.

The other thing I might consider is that God gave us autonomy and free will.

originally posted by: Agree2Disagree
a reply to: ArtemisE

You can start a thread and poll atheists all day long....It doesn't matter to me...

If there is even a doubt as to whether God does or does not exist...they are not atheist.
The only way one can be ATHEIST...is if you stand firm that a deity DOES NOT EXIST.
If they even allow for the possibility..then they are agnostic...or again, an agnostic atheist.

You can't argue this with anyone. That's the point of definitions...They make a standard for everyone to follow...That is what the word means...If it doesn't mean that to you, it doesn't mean the definition is wrong, it means your understanding is wrong.

A2D

unless of course, science tells them there IS a God.

then they will lock step into believers camp.

a reply to: tsingtao

no, only some will, because they are also individuals. persons. what have you.

a reply to: tsingtao

While it is true that science is provisional...the atheist is not provisional.

The atheist states "THERE IS NO GOD".

The intellectually provisional scientist would be wary of absolutes and state..."this alleged entity has no place in any scientific equations, plays no role in any scientific explanations, cannot be used to predict any events, does not describe any thing or force that has yet been detected, and there are no models of the universe in which its presence is either required, productive, or useful."

The provisional scientist is agnostic
(if they assume there is no deity but acknowledge there is no evidence for/against, they are an agnostic atheist, if they assume there is a deity(s) but acknowledge there is no evidence for/against, they are an agnostic theist...)

The atheist is unscientific and arrogant.

That being said, I believe a very profound number of self-proclaimed atheists are actually agnostic atheists....

A2D

a reply to: BO XIAN

What you speak of is something foreign to those who don't know Him. They don't understand. They think we're stupid, misinformed, or gullible. If we speak of our experiences they'll call it something else. They think they know what we're talking about, but they don't. But we know... We are fortunate brother. Just remember how difficult it can be to submit oneself to the way. After all, we walked in darkness ourselves.

originally posted by: Agree2Disagree
a reply to: ArtemisE

You can start a thread and poll atheists all day long....It doesn't matter to me...

If there is even a doubt as to whether God does or does not exist...they are not atheist.
The only way one can be ATHEIST...is if you stand firm that a deity DOES NOT EXIST.
If they even allow for the possibility..then they are agnostic...or again, an agnostic atheist.

You can't argue this with anyone. That's the point of definitions...They make a standard for everyone to follow...That is what the word means...If it doesn't mean that to you, it doesn't mean the definition is wrong, it means your understanding is wrong.

A2D

They might not believe in a god, but they would not deny direct evidence. If you think there is no god your an atheist. If science proves other wise, atheists won't fight it. That's why atheism isn't a religion. The difference isn't what you believe now. It's if you would refuse to believe ANY evidence to the contrary.

If atheism means you don't believe in a god and no evidence will ever convince you other wise. Then there are no atheists. There are only agnostic atheists.

originally posted by: tsingtao

originally posted by: Agree2Disagree
a reply to: ArtemisE

You can start a thread and poll atheists all day long....It doesn't matter to me...

If there is even a doubt as to whether God does or does not exist...they are not atheist.
The only way one can be ATHEIST...is if you stand firm that a deity DOES NOT EXIST.
If they even allow for the possibility..then they are agnostic...or again, an agnostic atheist.

You can't argue this with anyone. That's the point of definitions...They make a standard for everyone to follow...That is what the word means...If it doesn't mean that to you, it doesn't mean the definition is wrong, it means your understanding is wrong.

A2D

unless of course, science tells them there IS a God.

then they will lock step into believers camp.

And thAts the difference between us and the religious. When archeologists found out there had never been a global flood in human history. Christianity didn't fix the Noah story to be a regional flood. When science proved the world wasn't made in 7 days they didn't fix the creation story. They refused to believe reality.

a reply to: ArtemisE

sure it's easy. if science proves there's a god, some will say it's not god it's an alien or even if god was an alien, they'll say that means he/she/it isn't god and so on. always consider everyone is an individual and there will never be an one size fits all world view.

a reply to: JohnFisher

People get the warm and fuzzy's all the time. It's not proof of anything but dopamine.

a reply to: Agree2Disagree

They don't argue there's no evidence for or against... They argue that all the evidence is against the biblical tales, at least all the magical ones.

a reply to: undo

My hypothetical was for undeniable proof that Christianity was real. I have no clue what that would be... But if undeniable proof were found or Jesus himself showed up with undeniable proof. I don't think it'll be the atheists who deny it. It'll be other religious factions that do. Maybe even sects of Christianity.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I understand your position friend. But what makes the claims so wild? Is of because the claims are beyond our scope of of understanding?

a reply to: ArtemisE

Evidence AGAINST?

Sorry but science doesn't deal with SUPERNATURAL occurrences. Science CANNOT disprove anything SUPERNATURAL...science only deals with NATURAL things.

That's why the atheistic claim "there is no god" is unscientific(it's a spiritual claim!!!!)....(to say the least)

Do gods exist? Do supernatural entities intervene in human affairs? These questions may be important, but science won't help you answer them. Questions that deal with supernatural explanations are, by definition, beyond the realm of nature — and hence, also beyond the realm of what can be studied by science. For many, such questions are matters of personal faith and spirituality.

Furthermore, contrary to stereotype, one certainly doesn't have to be an atheist in order to become a scientist. A 2005 survey of scientists at top research universities found that more than 48% had a religious affiliation and more than 75% believe that religions convey important truths.

source

A2D

originally posted by: ArtemisE
a reply to: undo

My hypothetical was for undeniable proof that Christianity was real. I have no clue what that would be... But if undeniable proof were found or Jesus himself showed up with undeniable proof. I don't think it'll be the atheists who deny it. It'll be other religious factions that do. Maybe even sects of Christianity.

there are many people in ufology who are atheists, who believe god wasn't a god, but an alien. i frequently ask myself, how they reach that conclusion since it's really not an easy task for an atheist to state with utmost confidence what a god actually is in the first place, since they don't believe in god(s). for all we know, that might be the original meaning of the word (alien, that is).

on the other hand, god might be other dimensional or even other universe, would these not also be called aliens ? how do we determine what god actually is to begin with? well ancient texts give us a few clues, but outside of having personal revelation or experience, there's really not much data available to draw a scientific conclusion. who would be the one to state with absolute certainty that something/somebeing was god, if they dont believe in it in the first place. the whole thing is very messy.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: solomons path

then don't address it to "Christians" if you don't expect individual Christians to respond to the blanket statement. you should know better than that, as you are supposedly a critic of bigotry. start with yourself. i don't have any problem with you or your world view, provided it doesn't include you explaining how "Christians" are like evil epitomized. don't make me pull out the heavy artillery.

p.s. and by heavy artillery i mean a list of your own sins.

I wasn't addressing "to christians". I was engaging the author of this thread about the topic. YOU felt the need to chime in and tell us why YOU won't be anyone's punching bag. YOU did that.

I don't care if individual Christians respond, but I would expect they not make it about them. I'm speaking about behaviors that have been prevalent in Christianity since its inception. If YOU have a problem with those behaviors, police your own or find something different to call yourself. Regardless of your feelings . . . most christians, especially in the U.S. demonstrate everything I brought as criticism.

From just today in the "religions" forum:

California Pastor John MacArthur said during a recent edition of his “Grace to You” show that parents of LGBT kids should cast them out of their lives and “turn them over to Satan.”

CA pastor orders Christians to "isolate" LGBT kids and then 'turn them over to satan'.

You can act like this type of behavior is somehow not meaninful because YOU personally don't do it . . . but, as I said you do not represent Christianity. You are simply an individual follower of your christ figure.

And please stop with the liberal use of straw men . . . I never said Christians were "evil personified" (that was you). I never said I was a "critic of bigotry" (that was you). I was offering a criticism of the practice and inherent issues with Christianity. And, was complete on topic with the OP. You turning this into a two man straw fest that focuses on your personal behavior, though, is not.

And please . . . list my sins (which I don't believe in, as "sins" is a Judeo-Christian concept) . . . The only thing Christians do better than play the victim is judge . . . so, judge away Christian and tell me all the ways I have upset your imaginary father. Heavy artillery . . . classic!

a reply to: Agree2Disagree

There isn't evidence against a god, but there's loads of evidence against the biblical tales.

a reply to: Toadmund

I'll reiterate, every belief boils down to faith. If science finds evidence or proves something (until it later disprove that same something), and you believe him/her, then you have faith in their honesty. One need only take a research methods class to discover that the faith in academic honesty has been betrayed time and time again.

You have faith in the scientific proponents of Darwinism, but what about the (over 600) scientists who signed petitions in dissent of Darwinism? Many of them have relevant PhDs, and many of them are at ivy league universities. They aren't uneducated, and they know more about the debate than most of us on ATS. The proponents are in the majority, true, but it still proves the point that everything boils down to faith despite the "evidence".

I have been given more than enough evidence to maintain my faith in Jesus. It is evidence that is specific to me -- my experiences. I believe science provides an abundance of evidence in favor of God's existence. I believe that God to be the one of the Christian faith.

Everybody has to place their faith in something.

a reply to: ArtemisE

but again...atheism has nothing to do with biblical tales and everything to do with the existence of deity...

A2D

a reply to: ArtemisE

NOW you have the cheek to claim such was not an insult.

Incredible.