Police video of killing an illegal camper.

LoopyLou

Sremmos80

tsurfer2000h
reply to post by Sremmos80

 

You do realize that the man was either DEAD or critically injured at that point right????????!!!!!!!
HE DID NOT MOVE THE ENTIRE TIME!

Wrong he did move his legs, but the first thing an officer is trained to do is get control of the suspect and disarm if need be then they go from there.

If you watch the live leak video you clearly see him moving right before the officer uses the bean bags. Go to the 1:33 mark and watch from there.

And then come back and tell me he didn't move the whole time.

OMG HE MOVED A LEG!!!! HE IS GOING TO CHARGE US!!
Ever heard of nerves still reacting? Do you think he was in any pain? What happens to your body when it is in pain? Involuntary movement? Again, all things the cops should know
How do you justify shooting him 3 more times, then sending the dog, then breaking his hand???
Did you notice how he laid motionless through all of that?
That leg movement very well could have been his last breath and at that point these cowardly boys that we call cops were abusing a dead body

You honestly think that at that time that man was ANY danger to any of the officers????

edit on rdSun, 23 Mar 2014 17:51:04 -0500America/Chicago320140480 by Sremmos80 because: (no reason given)

Ever heard of someone playing dead?

I would justify it because he was still holding on to the knives. Refusing to obey orders.

edit on 23-3-2014 by LoopyLou because: (no reason given)

LOL!!!!!!!!
Yea, he was playing possum, prob didn't take much effort after getting shot 6 times...
He was not refusing to obey orders, he was unable to obey them, but these boys were still to scared to realize that.

LoopyLou
reply to post by Mamatus

 

Troll because I don't agree with you?

Want to comment on what I said about him saying Don't make me hurt people ?

Ill take that soft ball and knock it out of the park

That is just him talking!! NOT ACTING, he NEVER made an aggressive move at the officers, he only pulled the knifes out after he got stunned by the flash grenade, perfectly natural reaction. He then DROPS his arms and TURNS AROUND and gets shot 6 times...
This man may of had some mental health issuse and may tend to say things he does not mean.
Cops need to be able to tell the difference between ACTUAL threats and threats they are making more serious then they need to be
4 cops and a dog v ONE MAN, and in three hours they could not end this peacefully???
PATHETIC

Ill take your other soft ball as well, in regards to the booyah in the military and why they can say it and cops cant...
That isn't the issue, it is the fact that is coming after the death of a person.
I bet if you found a video of a marine/soilder in the ME that killed a person and then we hear booyah you would get the same outrage...
If he just topped his personal best in pull ups then it is completly different
You example is pointless
No one should say booyah after killing some one, even if they weren't that nice to them for the past 3 hours

reply to post by muse7


Please tell me why you feel that these officers could not have dealt with this manner in another way.
Don't just come in and say this man got what he deserved, WHY did he deserve to get shot?!

Why are officers allowed to not only shot this man but do so while skipping many non lethal options?

reply to post by LoopyLou

Yeah generally people play dead when they have been hurt and are still alive. He was shot with bean bags at that point , still he held on to those knives. They let the dog bite him, he still held on to the knives.
He was ok enough to talk to the cops and wiggle his feet so I'm guessing he was Ok enough to Let go of the knives

This statement right here shows you have no idea what is going on in the video...
The first rounds of shots were not bean bags, they were live rounds... assuming 5.56 or larger, kind of rounds that just ruin your whole day

He now is incapacitated and probably physically unable to obey any command, that doesn't matter to the cops.
Him laying face down is a very dangerous position for us cops, especially since there is 4 of us and dog!!!!
Better shoot him some more, send the dog in and break his hand!!!!!!

tsurfer2000h
reply to post by RickyD

 

I like how the video Tsurfer posted shows that in a much worse higher stakes situation with a guy who looks to be 4 times bigger than the one in the OP they could still manage to take him down without killing him.

Also remember the fact in the OP video he did try to fight with the police dog with knives in hand so that can be seen as a danger to the life of another officer which was the police dog, so with there training police officers are not going to let someone hurt or possibly kill one of their own.

edit on 23-3-2014 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)

No he didn't...He tried to defend himself from an attacking dog which had the intention and instruction of causing great pain and bodily harm...

reply to post by Sremmos80


Sremmos80,

I'd argue that being "scared" and "not caring" are two different things. I don't think they were scared. I think they showed blatant disregard for human life.

Sremmos80
reply to post by tsurfer2000h

 

Thank you for proving my point, as the other officers perceived this man as a threat to the police dog and did what they were trained to do. Protect the lives of fellow officers.

Why are cops allowed to assume every single person in the word is going is kill them and they are allowed to act the way they do, but if we are scared the cops are going to kill us ( which HAPPENS) we are told we are being unreasonable and criminal?
www.liveleak.com...
THIS MAN DID NOT ATTACK THE COPS!
He TURNS AROUND and is shot, no tazer was ever used that is bs!
These men not only murder some one but they kick the man, well lets say stomp, a man while he is down
These cops need to be arrested, if any body that was not an LEO did this they would be locked up pending investigation

edit on rdSun, 23 Mar 2014 14:03:44 -0500America/Chicago320144480 by Sremmos80 because: (no reason given)

So what's going on here??? This guy was turned around and clearly starting to get on the ground and they shot him in the back??? What's with the other video showing him defending himself against the dog and being shot in the front???

reply to post by Sremmos80


Except he wasn't dead when he said BOOYAH..... Try again??

Iscool

Sremmos80
reply to post by tsurfer2000h

 

Thank you for proving my point, as the other officers perceived this man as a threat to the police dog and did what they were trained to do. Protect the lives of fellow officers.

Why are cops allowed to assume every single person in the word is going is kill them and they are allowed to act the way they do, but if we are scared the cops are going to kill us ( which HAPPENS) we are told we are being unreasonable and criminal?
www.liveleak.com...
THIS MAN DID NOT ATTACK THE COPS!
He TURNS AROUND and is shot, no tazer was ever used that is bs!
These men not only murder some one but they kick the man, well lets say stomp, a man while he is down
These cops need to be arrested, if any body that was not an LEO did this they would be locked up pending investigation

edit on rdSun, 23 Mar 2014 14:03:44 -0500America/Chicago320144480 by Sremmos80 because: (no reason given)

So what's going on here??? This guy was turned around and clearly starting to get on the ground and they shot him in the back??? What's with the other video showing him defending himself against the dog and being shot in the front???

Deception.

The liveleak video should have been used. It's the one I saw originally and once I saw it on ats I KNEW things were going to get lively.

I wasn't disappointed.

reply to post by Sremmos80


Non lethal ways
Talking him down... Check
Stun grenade ... Check
Screaming to get down... Check
Bean bag bullets... Check

Try again

reply to post by Sremmos80


He was able to obey orders for 3 hours before hand
He was able to say don't hurt me and wiggle his feet to try turn over. He was ABLE to do as told he just chose not to.

Mamatus
reply to post by LoopyLou

 

Please take a moment and refer to my previous post about Posse Comitatus. Till then, I got no more time for you....

I have no idea what this forum has anything to do with THIS case. This could be posted on any forum on the net. Please enlighten me as to why that's important to you

I apologise I was just giving my opinion on this particular instance, I agree it's a justified shooting. It's sad that he died but that was not the intention. Get over your hysteria on how the big bad cops are out to get EVERYONE.

And by your comments I really don't need your time trust me ;0)

Would really love it if all cops went on strike for a week and then see what you lot have to say about them. I certainly wouldn't put my ass on the line for the likes of you . Hats off to the ones that still do

Sremmos80

tsurfer2000h
reply to post by Sremmos80

 

He was just flash banged, if he has the muscle memory to reach for his knifes when he feels threaten then it wasn't really his decision rather instinct just taking over

I know the last time I was flashbanged my first instinct was to drop my bags and reach for my knives too. Especially when I know police officers are the ones doing it.

Good counter point, obviously the point of the sentence went right past you.
Flight or Fight must mean nothing to you
It is a natural reaction to defend ones self when they feel threatened and then get surprised, this man was surrounded by men with rifles and a dog and then out of no where is hit with a flash bang or concussion grenade....
I would say he wasn't thinking about what he was doing and instincts took over, hence him turning around AWAY from the cops after 5 or so seconds... about the time one would gain his composure after getting disoriented

But to you the cops had no choice but to end this mans life...

As I see it, they told him to get down...He was standing on a hill so he had to turn around so he COULD get down without falling head over heals and that is what the video shows him doing...

Sremmos80

tsurfer2000h
reply to post by Sremmos80

 

Please defend the actions of the police after this man was laying on the ground!!

What the bean bag to the back that was announced prior to shooting him when he wouldn't drop the knives?

Or are you talking about the way the officer acted towards someone holding knives and a threat to kill them, because the main thing an officer does is take control of the suspect and make sure he is disarmed?

That's what they did...As he was laying there, mortally wounded or dead, the one cop tells the other, bean bag...So the bean bag cop opens up and blasts him with the shotgun a few times...And then after the dead guy didn't move, they sent the dog in again to gnaw on him for a while...

You do realize that the man was either DEAD or critically injured at that point right????????!!!!!!!
HE DID NOT MOVE THE ENTIRE TIME!
By your logic they could have shot him again... cause he still had the weapons in his hands LOL

reply to post by Iscool


I know it wasn't directed to me but it's interesting to see how there are different perspectives.
The way I see it, if it were me, I would have hit the deck the second the stun grenade went off. He had ample time to get down, by that time I would think you get your ass to the floor pronto, not do a twirl and lie down comfortably.

The way I saw and heard it, after he still refused to get down after multiple shouts , he shouted ' don't make me hurt people' THEN turned and tried to run... He took a step away but looked like he slipped.
Just an observation that it seems no one else can see

LoopyLou
reply to post by Iscool

 

I know it wasn't directed to me but it's interesting to see how there are different perspectives.
The way I see it, if it were me, I would have hit the deck the second the stun grenade went off. He had ample time to get down, by that time I would think you get your ass to the floor pronto, not do a twirl and lie down comfortably.

The way I saw and heard it, after he still refused to get down after multiple shouts , he shouted ' don't make me hurt people' THEN turned and tried to run... He took a step away but looked like he slipped.
Just an observation that it seems no one else can see

The thing about a stun grenade is that it literally "stuns" you. Same principal as a flash bang...sensory overload. It's kind of hard to respond to orders when your body is trying to figure out wtf just happened.

LoopyLou
reply to post by Iscool

 

I know it wasn't directed to me but it's interesting to see how there are different perspectives.
The way I see it, if it were me, I would have hit the deck the second the stun grenade went off. He had ample time to get down, by that time I would think you get your ass to the floor pronto, not do a twirl and lie down comfortably.

The way I saw and heard it, after he still refused to get down after multiple shouts , he shouted ' don't make me hurt people' THEN turned and tried to run... He took a step away but looked like he slipped.
Just an observation that it seems no one else can see

That's certainly not what I and apparently others see...He didn't refuse to get down...He was struggling with the dog trying to keep from getting ripped apart...He then turned around and was leaning like he was getting down...Then they blasted him...

I'll bet if they ever made it to court, (which they won't) the jury would see it the same way I do...

reply to post by TiedDestructor


He had enough perception to get his knives out his pocket / bag though , so I don't buy it in this case

LoopyLou
reply to post by TiedDestructor

 

He had enough perception to get his knives out his pocket / bag though , so I don't buy it in this case

Muscle memory?

I have instinctively placed my hand on my carry weapon when startled. Next.

TiedDestructor

I have instinctively placed my hand on my carry weapon when startled. Next.

"startled" would seem a far cry from...

TiedDestructorThe thing about a stun grenade is that it literally "stuns" you. Same principal as a flash bang...sensory overload. It's kind of hard to respond to orders when your body is trying to figure out wtf just happened.

edit on CDT14America/Chicago23America/Chicago4531Sun, 23 Mar 2014 23:14:45 -0500000000 by TiedDestructor because: of aliens

not to turn your quote around on you or anything, just pointing out the difference 'tween the two situations.

the flash bang, stun grenades have an added 'startling' factor of a concussive-effect as well.

Despite and no matter what any of those 'officers' could possibly say, there were many ways the situation could have been handled differently ... without the end result being one dead.

Sadly, for me at least, it just seems today's officers are either being trained to rely more heavily on their 'kit', weaponry and such, as opposed to using their gawd-given minds, intellect and bodies...

Nope. just grab something from your 'kit', iinstead.

it's either they're being trained in that manner or they're hiring folks who simply don't have the required mental faculties [+ adequate training] to handle these type situations.

even more unfortunate... 'these type situations' seems to be expanding faster than the 'middle class' has declined/disappeared in recent years. :ugh:

ugh...

p.s. ... and, yeah, i heard the 'booyah' at the end .... as if someone were actually happy too see it all end, finally ... that way.