Police video of killing an illegal camper.

Sremmos80
reply to post by thesaneone

 

Yes if they tazed some one to death then you would see the same outrage, but what is wrong about that?
Cop haters are bad because they get mad when cops kill people?
I am missing your logic...

edit on thMon, 24 Mar 2014 14:16:02 -0500America/Chicago320140280 by Sremmos80 because: (no reason given)

Just as I thought, no matter what the police do even less lethal action they will always be wrong in your eyes.

reply to post by thesaneone


Of course there is always exceptions
I would say the majority of the time though some one is going to jail for a period of time until the investigation clears that person.

Also just because charges were not filed doesn't mean no one was arrested. Cops are not the ones that actually charge you, they just book you under the charges and a judge decides if they stick or not.
You can go to jail and the get released later with no charge.

thesaneone

Sremmos80
reply to post by thesaneone

 

Yes if they tazed some one to death then you would see the same outrage, but what is wrong about that?
Cop haters are bad because they get mad when cops kill people?
I am missing your logic...

edit on thMon, 24 Mar 2014 14:16:02 -0500America/Chicago320140280 by Sremmos80 because: (no reason given)

Just as I thought, no matter what the police do even less lethal action they will always be wrong in your eyes.

Seriously?!?!
Are you even following what is going on right now?
This is about use of LETHAL force, less than lethal is not the topic here
You are the one that brought up tazering until the person dies... I am not calling for them to tazer him 100 times...
I think 1 hit would have done just fine.... Less then lethal was totally acceptable here.

You did peg me right, no matter what a cop does if he kills some one he is in the wrong, you got that 100% right

Now to make that next giant leap and say that i disagree with everything cops do, well you are not that far off but I understand why we have them and would not want to see them gone completely, just have their power severely reduced. They should answer to the citizen, not the other way around

And we ans US citizens should be allowed to take care of our problems out self

reply to post by Sremmos80


Using non-lethal means has been brought up a few times in this thread.

I am just wondering if some people would consider it just as bad as getting shot by the police, there have been a few examples out there that talk about peoples hearts stopping and dying after getting tased one time.

I don't need any background story anything up until the the last 50 seconds of that encounter is irrelevant. That was plain old fashioned pre meditated murder.

The guy is complying. When his back is turned they launch a flash gang and a dog. What the hell did they expect to happen. Anybody could have responded like that man did after he gets assaulted with a flash bang and a dog at the same time. In the real world that mans death is the polices fault. They screwed the pooch and their responsibilities and acted like bigger asses then the camper.

Once they flash ang him and launch a dog at him in the real works its his god given right to defend himself.

If you need further proof the police were less then average in intelligence just check out the dip snip with the helmet cam who near shoots his own buddy with 223 to get at the victim. Could have shot the dog too. Although that poor dog needs sensible owners not las cruces dumbest.

I don't need any background story anything up until the the last 50 seconds of that encounter is irrelevant. That was plain old fashioned pre meditated murder.

The guy is complying. When his back is turned they launch a flash gang and a dog. What the hell did they expect to happen. Anybody could have responded like that man did after he gets assaulted with a flash bang and a dog at the same time. In the real world that mans death is the polices fault. They screwed the pooch and their responsibilities and acted like bigger asses then the camper.

Once they flash ang him and launch a dog at him in the real works its his god given right to defend himself.

If you need further proof the police were less then average in intelligence just check out the dip snip with the helmet cam who near shoots his own buddy with 223 to get at the victim. Could have shot the dog too. Although that poor dog needs sensible owners not las cruces dumbest.

reply to post by thesaneone


You are correct, I bet there is cases of a person dying from one tazer hit. Now do me a favor and pull up all those stories and see how many pointed to the tazer as the sole reason why they died.
I would imagine most had pre existing heart conditions or a irregular heartbeat that caused the heart to malfunction leading to death
Gun shot wounds don't have the clause, they don't aggravate pre existing conditions. You could be as healthy as a horse and get dropped like a sack of potatoes


So are you trying to say that cops should not even bother with tazers since they might kill the person anyway?
What does the fact that people have died from one tazer hit do to justify what these cops did?

What do more people die from, cops shooting people or cops tazing them?

Shooting someone in the back, several times and watching them collapse to the ground is one thing. But expecting them to comply with commands while being paralyzed, shot with bean bags, mauled by an attack dog and staring into the white light as their heart stops beating and their lungs stop breathing, is quite another. These guys are murderers.

reply to post by Visitor2012


I agree that was a murder. If I was travelling and saw a cop dying on the side of the road I would be to scared to help them and would just pretend I never saw them and that makes me feel terrible but how can people even interact with thugs with badges? Something is wrong if these are the people we are supposed to trust.

Slickinfinity
reply to post by Visitor2012

 

I agree that was a murder. If I was travelling and saw a cop dying on the side of the road I would be to scared to help them and would just pretend I never saw them and that makes me feel terrible but how can people even interact with thugs with badges? Something is wrong if these are the people we are supposed to trust.

It's a sad state of affairs. Whenever I'm approached by an armed man wearing a costume and a badge, I ALREADY feel my life being threatened. And in turn, I'm expected to somehow ignore and forgive that threat and behave civil when they walk up to me and my little boy, armed with a 9mm, clips, tazers and a club. It's an unnecessary situation Cops force on society every day.

DeadSeraph

Helious
I would never submit to what I consider unreasonable commands. Then again, I'm not afraid of death. He who fires the first shot always loses, it's only a matter of time.

Good for you. I hope for your sake you never end up in a similar situation and end up like the guy in the video.

Quick question for all the cop haters:

If you were armed and someone came at you with a knife and you felt your life was in danger, would you consider yourself justified in shooting your assailant in self defense?

You asked so I will answer. Yes, I have been approached by a person with a deadly weapon, in my case a running chain saw in the hands of a man I later learned was a meth-head. I retreated, called the cops and obtained a weapon and No, I did not shoot him even though I did feel that my life and that of my husband was in danger.
The district attorney later told me that I would have been completely justified in shooting him but I have to put my head on the pillow to sleep each night and look myself in the mirror. The dude might have been crazed on meth but he wasn't so crazed that he didn't recognize the danger he was in when I reappeared with a shotgun and racked a shell into the chamber. I never even had to point the gun at him. He backed off and left my property. Had he continued to advance on us with his chain saw, yes, I probably would have shot him but not at 20 feet away.
Just because it would have been "justified" would not have made it the right or moral thing for me to do.
That dude now resides in a maximum security prison where I'm sure there are days that he wishes I had shot him because he's going to be there at least another 20 years serving as a love slave for some very bad dudes.
The video shows murder, pure and simple and if you cannot see that...I pray for your enlightenment.

727Sky
I would suggest anyone watching this video and finds themselves being given a command to get on the ground by an armed member of the local yokels drop whatever you are doing and do as commanded...

Think you'd be able to hear or see anything after a flashbang grenade landed only 2 feet from your person??

Highly doubt it

reply to post by thesaneone


The victim even stated he will walk with them that He is not a murderer. He said i'll walk with you if you keep your word. Im just worried about safety. As he continues to gather his belongings, looking down, one of the offices demands "Do it". There was no probable cause to throw a flashbang grenade at someone who just said: "I'll walk with you if you keep your word" unless your a panzy jack-ass.

Looking more into the video, as the victim grounded himself after the flashbang, you can hear an officer saying "turn around", at that exact moment the victim heard that, he did turn around with his hands up and at the same time, the other officer shot him in the back, probably thinking he was trying to run...even if that was so, RUNNING IS NOT ENDANGERING THE OFFICERS LIFE.

Im not advocating anything when i say this.

EVERY COP OUT THERE, WHO USES THEIR POWER TO DISRUPT CIVIL OBEDIENCE,.....YOUR TIME WILL COME.
ESPECIALLY COPS IN THIS STATE OF NEW MEXICO.PEOPLE ARE DONE WITH YOUR FEINDISH LIFE_THREATENING LIFE_STYLE.

GET SOME THERAPY..although that wont help...

reply to post by diggindirt

I'm so glad your situation went the way it did. I agree with you, I don't want to have to shoot anyone. I would have to live with it and prefer not to go there.

I'm curious if your neighbor got 20 years for the threat/chainsaw/trespass or was it for the meth/warrants? Substitute meth with mental illness and it could've been a very different story. Being mentally ill isn't against the law unless they've done something illegal. Had he just been acting aggressive, no meth, he may have spent less time in jail and could still be your neighbor.

The guy who shot the school bus driver/kidnapped the boy comes to mind. His neighbors put up with a lot of crap from him. He had a court case pending but I don't think he was cooking meth/taking drugs. He was free for the time being. I'm guessing his crimes weren't considered bad enough to lock him up, mental illness alone didn't necessitate it.

How long should we keep giving people the benefit of the doubt? Do we have to wait for them to escalate before we can take legal action? It's a tough call and hindsight is 20/20. Making the wrong decision can leave a lot of victims, James Holmes, Adam Lanza etc.

I'm no cop lover but, imo if LE was intent on killing the guy why would they spend all the time/resources talking to him for 3+ hours?

Officer involved shooting was justified

As the hours passed, Chief Eden said an APD Crisis Intervention Team officer and a State Police liaison were called to the scene. Both attempted to speak with Boyd, however, Chief Eden says Boyd continued to threaten officers with death. Police also discovered that Boyd had a violent 20-year criminal history that included multiple incidents of violence against officers. Boyd’s history also showed years of mental health related concerns.

LE isn't the best way to deal with people in crisis. Until we come up with something better it's all we got. Had LE killed Holmes or Lanza under similar circumstances yet before they committed their crimes, I imagine we'd be equally appalled without even realizing what was prevented.

I know it sounds like accusing people of thought crimes but I grew up with a violent mentally ill brother, I absolutely never gave him the benefit of the doubt. Whatever I thought he was capable of was far tamer than reality, we don't think like they do.

No easy answers and it's very easy to blame LE but our mental health industry isn't perfect, families often enable/ignore red flag behavior and society isn't very supportive. Many families try to keep mental illness the "family secret."

What happened with this man is a symptom of a much bigger problem. It won't simply go away no matter how cops react to it. LE might cause a lot of damage but so can out of control mentally ill people.

Imo as things stand now it's a lose/lose situation and we're going to keep seeing similar incidents until we all get on the same page where mental illness is concerned.

reply to post by thesaneone


This is why I don't visit the US anymore, I'm afraid of being shot as a tourist.

reply to post by Morningglory


The meth-head wasn't my neighbor, he was a convicted felon who had been let out on parole because our jails were full of non-violent drug offenders according to our county attorney. He had been convicted at least twice of violent offenses which were plea bargained down by a Commonwealth Attorney who didn't like to try cases. The story was that he had been convicted of manufacturing meth, selling meth and terrorist threatening as well as assault but was released on parole when the jail became overcrowded because somehow, under Kentucky law "assault" was not considered a violent offense. It was a mare's nest at that time because we had an alcoholic Commonwealth Attorney who was not doing his job. Thankfully, that guy has since been removed from office.
He's doing 20 years because he was charged with parole violation, attempted murder against me, my husband, two neighbors and the two deputies who arrested him. He was working for a tree trimming company hired by the state at the time he went on his crazy threatening binge with the chainsaw. He could have gotten 50 years on those charges but since he was in his 40s at the time, the judge gave him twenty to serve.
Our deputies could have justifiably shot the guy because he came at them just like he came at me and my husband. They made the same choice I did, to back off and not fire. They got him surrounded, waited until his saw ran out of gas and tazed him. Those are the law enforcement officers I respect. Our sheriff's department hasn't killed anyone in my lifetime despite several deputies being seriously injured by bad guys. Unlike the current occupant of the White House, they are not the kind of people who like to stand and tell folks, "I'm pretty good at killing people."

reply to post by diggindirt

I appreciate your reply. You bring up yet another serious threat to the general public.

The solution to overcrowded prisons, it seems is just to release them willy-nilly. Not sure of the procedure, do they draw straws or what? Here in Colorado there's an ongoing investigation after an early released prisoner killed the Colorado corrections director.

During that investigation it was discovered that several other high risk prisoners were also released. Now a task force is combing the state trying to round up these guys. Seems they always find there way to my neck of the woods.

That's why I'm saying more of these kind of incidents are going to keep happening. We've used the penal system as a warehouse for the mentally ill. Grouping them with hardened criminals is making them worse and now they've got a record, huge red flag for LE.

Your LEOs handled the situation properly. Even though our sheriffs are small town country folk they do a great job. Like I said people with mental illness are a tough call but we don't need to make them more violent and that's exactly what we're doing. We expect LE to deal with what the penal system has turned them into and quite frankly I don't think they're qualified.

We've made a huge mess and people want it cleaned up. Unfortunately there's going to be a lot of collateral damage before we grow a brain and start dealing with the mentally ill in a more constructive/healthy way.

LE is basically left to take out the trash while we keep making more. I know what it was like dealing with my brother, LE has their work cut out for them. When they fail instead of placing blame solely on them we need to also take a hard look at ourselves and societies contribution.

There's a much bigger picture here that's getting blurred. It's easy to just blame it on bad cops and no doubt they exist but leaving LE to make the best of a horrible situation, they didn't create in the first place, isn't fixing anything.

I imagine good cops are getting pretty discouraged arresting people only to have to deal with them the following week or worse yet having to go in and clean up the mess after the fact.

I don't know how cops can sleep after that, I don't know how/why they still do their jobs and imo it's one reason we're not attracting quality candidates for LE positions.

When violent mentally ill people are allowed to escalate to the point they have it ain't pretty. They don't always respond to nice or in a way we'd expect. Our system is turning them into wild loose cannons and when LE has to rein them in it can easily go either way. Throw police/courtroom corruption and mentally ill LEOs into the mix and it's a recipe for disaster.

reply to post by 727Sky


Spot executions are the sign of a totalitarian dictatorship.

These guys knew who they could murder and power trip over. These are not real police imo.
Real police don't murder unarmed civilians.

This is a gang of coward thugs.

reply to post by Morningglory


You are brainwashed

The problem is we give our mentally ill a badge and a gun

reply to post by kathat

Yeah if you tell a cop you're just a tourist he may hear terrorist and its game over lol. As you can see from this video they aren't very good at communicating and they are quick to shoot.

I don't get this at all. How are these people still free???

I saw someone else say only 1 bullet was a real round the rest were beanbags..... BS! That's rifle fire im hearing and those AR's aren't shooting bean bags.


EDIT: Posting this link. Read the reactions from police on this video. Police Magazine . Some of them are actually denouncing this. Then there's the morons who actually think this was ok. Are these people serious?
This is one of their comments. I find it a look into the mind of a psychotic policeman.
"This event exemplifies very well the need for those being confronted by LEO's to be cooperative, to NOT display attitudes of self-righteous indignation, or passive aggression. It is wise to divest one's self of weapons, to lie on the ground spread eagle fashion and to cooperate, comply and obey commands. This advice will naturally rub most liberal Wussies and Wimps the wrong way."

I was in my backyard the other day smoking a cig at around 12:30am, I had my porch light on and was smoking my last cig before bed and letting my dog use the bathroom. As I lit my cigarette a police car pulled in on the side of my house, shut his lights off, and just sat there.. I wasn't doing anything I would consider suspicious. In fact, I thought he was. He didn't make me feel safe. I felt as if I had a stalker, lol. I don't trust the police, they actually make me feel unsafe, or intimidated. I think that's what they go for though. Oh well.

If this incident had happened in my community I would be trying to get some sort of rally going on in favor of not only firing this people, but charging them with nothing short of 2nd degree murder. I don't think they premeditated this killing. But they definitely put the circumstances in play that made this happen. It was nothing less than murder.