The Dishonest Church and the Dishonest Christians----Jesus: The Man and the Myths

reply to post by ALightBreeze


Whatr about the RSPK theory of poltergeists?

reply to post by BlueMule


I include "tulpas" in my list of these parasites. Known in many cultures and prominent among the darker spiritual concepts of the Tibetan Buddhists, the tulpa is believed to be a spirit deliberately created by concentration. Many tulpas are well documented, and I have cases in my files about groups of parapsychology students who actually have created tulpas. These entities often take on lives of their own and can be very difficult to "put away." Some have even been photographed. Personally, I believe that tulpas are parasites that already exist and just use the opportunity to take form and gain strength through all the human concentration.

Finally, I believe that there are legitimate "visitation apparitions" often from loved ones who have "moved on." There seem to be some universes or states of awareness that are clearer or more enlightened than ours. Those whose condition puts them in one of these universes after their "deaths" seem to be able to aid loved ones and others who remain.

So, in fact, any entity that we think of as a "ghost" is a life form of some kind.

But this is OT for the thread so...

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by foodstamp
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Lonewolf,

Interesting video. But why no mention of the bodies? It wasn't even brought up. The is highly suspect. I wonder if there were no bodies inside. To me this would indicate fakery.

I'm assuming here, but, If there were body's inside, I'm sure they woulda made mention of them. This video is from a christian believer and it wouldn't be too much of s stretch to think he left that major bit of information out in order to support his claim. Have you considered this?

There were bones, that's what a ossuary is, a bone box. Jews didn't bury the way we do, they would leave a body in a mausoleum (or rock hewn tomb) for a year and then come back a year later when the flesh had completely rotted away and then intered the bones in a stone sarcophagus called an ossuary for second burial with the deceased's family or friends. In which case Peter's bones were intered with his family and other believers in Yeshua. Simon Peter is the one called "Simon bar Jonah" (Simon son of Jonah). Philipp's bones were discovered a couple years ago in Turkey in the last town he had been sighted preaching in.

Also the tomb was discovered in Bethany, where a close friend of Jesus (Lazarus) and his sisters Mary and Martha were entombed in the same cemetary Simon Peter was, on the Mt. of Olives. Believer or no the scientific method is not thrown out in an archeaological investigation. The bones of Martha, Mary, Lazarus, Judah and Simeon were also discovered.

Being that it claims to be a scientific investigation though..You don't question why these bones were not even talked about? You and I both know that the bones would have been the most important factor in this investigation. Carbon dating, rebuilding the bodies to see what they looked like, there diets, etc etc..

This is a monsterous hole in this story... I'm sorry..

Originally posted by ALightBreeze
reply to post by BlueMule

 

I include "tulpas" in my list of these parasites. Known in many cultures and prominent among the darker spiritual concepts of the Tibetan Buddhists, the tulpa is believed to be a spirit deliberately created by concentration. Many tulpas are well documented, and I have cases in my files about groups of parapsychology students who actually have created tulpas. These entities often take on lives of their own and can be very difficult to "put away." Some have even been photographed. Personally, I believe that tulpas are parasites that already exist and just use the opportunity to take form and gain strength through all the human concentration.

Finally, I believe that there are legitimate "visitation apparitions" often from loved ones who have "moved on." There seem to be some universes or states of awareness that are clearer or more enlightened than ours. Those whose condition puts them in one of these universes after their "deaths" seem to be able to aid loved ones and others who remain.

So, in fact, any entity that we think of as a "ghost" is a life form of some kind.

But this is OT for the thread so...

Tulpas? Really? And you've seen this for yourself? "well documented" means nothing when it comes to evidence.

It reminds me of this thing i saw once on "chi". This "chi" master claimed he could knock a person down without touching him. This guy was interviewing him and watched him perform for the camera. Then the investigator wanted to try an attack him. the "Chi master" absolutely refused this to happen.

There are no fairy tales or supernatural beings in this universe. It defies the laws of this universe. Suffice it to say they may exist in another dimension or universe. But not in this one, that would defeat the purpose of having division in the first place. And since we get closer and closer to understanding that we may live in a multi-verse, I would tend to go with that theory and it does not allow for dimensions to cross ocver, or should I say, into one another.

Originally posted by ALightBreeze

But this is OT for the thread so...

You accept that there is more to things than meet the eye. You know that in order to understand some things we need to accept other things. Things that require study.

Perhaps there are things you need to accept. Things that require study. For example how to read a myth. A background in ghosts doesn't teach one that. Nor does it teach how to glean the esoteric subtext from the Bible and other sacred text.

Since the NT is fictional, typological literature, who really cares about the so-called miracles of a transparently comic book character?

What if it turns out that the sci-fi/comic-book genre was 'Divinely inspired' in a way that you can't yet see?

reply to post by charles1952

"I asked them directly if they were Christians...those who persisted, I ordered away... Those who denied they were or ever had been Christians...worshiped both your image and the images of the gods and cursed Christ. They used to gather on a stated day before dawn and sing to Christ as if he were a god... All the more I believed it necessary to find out what was the truth from two servant maids, which were called deaconesses, by means of torture. Nothing more did I find than a disgusting, fanatical superstition. Therefore I stopped the examination, and hastened to consult you...on account of the number of people endangered. For many of all ages, all classes, and both sexes already are brought into danger..."
Pliny's letter to Emperor Trajan

Hmmm...perceived as just another common jewish prophet until later lying preachers?

reply to post by Praetorius

Hmmm...perceived as just another common jewish prophet until later lying preachers?

More or less.

reply to post by foodstamp

Being that it claims to be a scientific investigation though..You don't question why these bones were not even talked about? You and I both know that the bones would have been the most important factor in this investigation. Carbon dating, rebuilding the bodies to see what they looked like, there diets, etc etc.. This is a monsterous hole in this story... I'm sorry...

The NT is one monstrous (w)hole for that matter.

My reading of the combined story of Jesus' resurrection is perhaps the clearest proof of the Flavian origin of Christianity. This is because the story was designed to be a way of proving beyond a doubt that creating the Gospels as satire was the real intent of its authors.

This proof also has the advantage of being, if incorrect, so easy to disprove. Experts in probability can either confirm or deny the conclusions in this work and the truth will out.

Have at it.

reply to post by ALightBreeze
So, how often did the jews and others get together to sing to the other prophets like they were gods?

Just wondering, as I apparently missed this factoid in my studies. The whole persecution and mass killing of the christians by the jews and romans seems to call it into question, as well...

Originally posted by Praetorius
reply to post by ALightBreeze

 

So, how often did the jews and others get together to sing to the other prophets like they were gods?

Just wondering, as I apparently missed this factoid in my studies. The whole persecution and mass killing of the christians by the jews and romans seems to call it into question, as well...

If you find that highly obscure factoid, please post it.

reply to post by ALightBreeze
I was hoping you would, as regards the other prophets - I already posted Pliny's quote as sent to Trajan mentioning it regarding the christians.

reply to post by foodstamp

Being that it claims to be a scientific investigation though..You don't question why these bones were not even talked about? You and I both know that the bones would have been the most important factor in this investigation. Carbon dating, rebuilding the bodies to see what they looked like, there diets, etc etc..

Pope Pius XII covered it up back in 1966-67 and the tomb was resealed and a gag order placed on the find. The reason he covered it up? Because Rome claims Peter was buried in "St. Peter's Basilica" and this story proves that Peter was never buried in Rome and never the first Pope, the lies are exposed. Peter was crucified in Jerusalem, not Rome. The tomb was only recently reopened. You'd be surprised at how many people do not want Jesus being proven to exist because that kind of proof would change the world and force "jewish" people to recognize their Messiah had already come. There's a whole lot of reasons people would sweep this under the rug and minimize it.

Originally posted by ALightBreeze
My reading of the combined story of Jesus' resurrection is perhaps the clearest proof of the Flavian origin of Christianity. This is because the story was designed to be a way of proving beyond a doubt that creating the Gospels as satire was the real intent of its authors.

This proof also has the advantage of being, if incorrect, so easy to disprove. Experts in probability can either confirm or deny the conclusions in this work and the truth will out.

What "work"? You're not talking about the Roman Piso "theory", are you?

Originally posted by Praetorius
reply to post by ALightBreeze

 

I was hoping you would, as regards the other prophets - I already posted Pliny's quote as sent to Trajan mentioning it regarding the christians.

I don't believe your factoid exists. Unlike the Flavians, I am entirely unable to create myth out of thin airs.

reply to post by ALightBreeze
Perhaps we're talking around each other here - the claim was put forth that 'Jesus' was originally considered nothing much beyond any other jewish prophet, as you agreed. But Pliny the younger reported to emperor Trajan that the christians used to meet and sing to him as though he were a god, which (among a host of other things) seems to argue against this claim - you can read the whole letter and Trajan's reply here on the PBS website, as well as at other sources.

So, since there is no apparent indication that the other jewish prophets were ever given tribute in this fashion, the point seems made that 'Jesus' was considered something beyond them (as well as a serious enough threat to roman and jewish orthodoxy as to effectively greenlight the entire organization and mark all its adherents for death - something slightly counterproductive for the greedy or advantage-seeking to latch on to...).

Thanks for your thoughts, but in light of history itself, I don't think this thread or the claims in it have much of any leg to stand upon.

reply to post by Praetorius

Yeppers, we're going around in circles, thanks for the nice words!

reply to post by ALightBreeze
hah. Sure thing. Granted, I'm more confused leaving the conversation than when I came in to it, but glad to be of service.

If you might end up feeling so inclined as to clarify where our disconnect is, it would be appreciated - otherwise, you just have a great night.

Originally posted by ahnggk


Haha!

Do you really think most Christians believe Jesus??

They can't even obey what Jesus teaches. You can't profess to be a follower and a believer if you don't do the things Jesus commanded.

Jesus told a lot of absolutely horrible things about money and it is to be absolutely hated, absolutely treat it as if it had no value.

And Christian will throw Old Testament verses in your face if you point this out to profess their love for money, rather than God!! If they love Old Testament so much, why don't we throw in animal sacrifice, or stoning sinners to death, or marrying multiple wives???

Most Christians love money, their possessions, their family more than God! They rebel against the teachings of Jesus.

With the bulk of Christianity today, their distribution among the richest countries. If all of them would truly follow Jesus, there would be no one starving in the world today!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I used to be part of the mainstream Christianity (pentecostal/evangelical) for over 2 decades. Absolutely glad I was able to come out of it. Many denominations are preaching essentially the same things! They have one Bible, and believe it to be infallible and everything in it is good.

Now I just follow Jesus

edit on 6-9-2012 by ahnggk because: (no reason given)

It took you 2 decades to come out of it, and now you act like a Pharisse.
How Christian

In looking for the truth on the Bible's compilation, one has to consider what did Rome have to gain from their sudden endorsement of Jesus and the formulation of the Bible's collection of books. Sure, there is the Constantine's military advantage from a skirmish over the sign of the cross on shields and his vision of a cross over the Sun, not to mention his own mother took up the Jesus cause. What did Rome hope to gain? Why did Rome want a Bible?

It appears the advantage was pacifism, less wars, and with that easy rule over the masses. Roman rule married the church and themselves to being god, or playing god, in the minds of the masses. But at what cost did this happen in the long term? Certainly Rome was not going to shoot itself in the foot with the Bible, so there had to be gain to be had. What one finds is Rome's Bible gave more a fictional account of Jesus, and this to gain control over the issues and cast the history as they wanted it told.

There comes a book called "The Dishonest Church" that examines some of the downwind fallout from the selection of books with the poorest of foundations in any truth, but the foundations for the political church of Rome and its political Bible for control over the masses.

commonsenseatheism.com...

But if Christians were ignorant of where their Bible comes from, that is the church‘s fault, not Ehrman’s. Every seminary-trained preacher and leader already knows that the Bible was cobbled together from dozens of sources, that the many of its authors are anonymous, that several books are known forgeries (Hebrews, 2 Peter, etc.), that its authors had many theological differences, and so on – but they almost never share this information with their lay audience.

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I know exactly what Jack is saying. I was brought up in an evangelical church, and after attending thousands of sermons, hundreds of bible studies, and several theology classes, I had never once heard the most basic facts about the Bible that are known to all Christian scholars. Once I learned these “secrets” (through my own study), I was so disillusioned with my church’s dishonesty that I was willing to put my entire worldview under examination. In the end, I decided I had no good reasons to believe God even existed. But I may never have examined my worldview so thoroughly if the church had told me the truth from the beginning.

Part II of the same writer presents:

commonsenseatheism.com...

The pastor-parishioner relationship is damaged… Clergy assume (mostly incorrectly) that church members are incapable of dealing with naked truth. On their side, parishioners have begun to suspect (mostly correctly) that their religious leaders are not playing straight…

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Youth feel betrayed… More than half of those who grow up in mainline Protestant churches will attend college. There they will encounter scientific information incompatible with the faith of their childhood. If they try to reclaim their faith by taking courses [about the Bible] they will discover jarring facts about the origin and development of scripture. Worst of all, they may go home on vacation and confront their pastor with their new knowledge, only to hear the pastor respond, “Yes, I knew all this all along.” Their sense of betrayal may require a long time to heal, if it heals at all.

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The Christian church… is losing leaders. Seminaries are… accepting students whose academic records would not win them admittance into other professions… Further, the percentage of seminary graduates who go into parish work is decreasing. Of those who become pastors, a significant number either drop out of parish work or become depressed because they want to drop out and cannot.

And the discovery of many lies included in the Roman Churches games to control the masses:

debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com...

By the eighteenth-century Enlightenment, an increasing number of scholars and intellectuals were coming to realize that Christianity could not actually be historically true. In the nineteenth century, the floodgates opened. From David Strauss's "Life of Jesus" to Albert Schweitzer's "The Quest of the Historical Jesus," scholarly research proved that the Bible was a crazy mish-mash of garbled history, Jewish mythology, and fantasies based on pagan stories of "virgin" births, resurrected savior gods, etc.

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So, are America's pastors and religious leaders simply pathological liars?

Much of the explanation, Good claims, is simply economic self-interest. He states that "my fellow professionals... are motivated by fear... clergy fear the loss of their jobs... These professionals... are killing the church by their lack of courage."

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The appeal of Christianity for rational, educated people who know the truth is simply nostalgia. If everyone comes to know the truth and there are no more "true believers," Christianity will fade away. Good's variety of "progressive" Christianity is simply a temporary rest stop on the road from orthodox Christianity to the final destination of outright atheism.

Good forthrightly declares, "The lying must stop in all Christian congregations." Yes, even if the ultimate result is the end of Christianity.

So, what one finds is there wasn't much interest in the truth about Jesus and the need for a Roman Bible was purely one of political intentions that came to form a political church that cares not for truth. The game was marry the church beliefs to Roman rule and declair themselves based upon god and subdue the masses.

Do these methods of dishonest intention cause problems in the present day? Yes!

What kinds of problems does the Roman political Bible cause these days and the games of those trying to spin things a good bit to fool the masses?

1. Christianity is a con game against the feeble of mind, where they tell they are the body of Christ. Else, if Jesus was alive, in the reality as they claim he is god, they would not need the fake Jesus via they taking the role. They play god and Jesus, such is their self aggrandizations and drug like needs to become something they are not.

2. Christianty interferes with Goverment., because it has a bunch of people sitting on their thumbs praying to something that doesn't listen, while the Powers that Be continue on with impugnity herding the sheep. Such a marriage of the church to the Kings and Emperors has proven very profitable for the few. It proves to make wars easy and profitable for the Kings, Emperors, and their Bankers. Jesus teachings had no need for Kings, Emperors, or money changers, as all would live self sufficiently in each other's care.

3. Christianity is considered a fraud, a myth, by a large portion of the world, from the Jewish, to the Islamic, to the Masons all around the world. Jesus didn't die on the Cross and Jesus was a Man. Yet, simple reality allude the Christians because of their need for Santa, a myth, and a fantasy daddy that was planted in their mind's at an early age. Christianty murders Jesus' memory and teachings, acting as a cult in every fashion. It is a cult that hates anyone that disagrees with them, or resists joining their myth and arrogance against truth.


The bottom line is such crazy talk and mindless content from the Christians cause wars over false concepts and encourage folks being taken in by nothing more than a cult practice.

Modern Christianty = Cult = Making Jesus a Myth designed by a controlling Roman political church to conquor free thought and self sufficiency that Jesus originally proposed.

As in Revelation, One recognizes those members of the cult via their arrogance and self aggrandizations about the political church and its political Bible.