Pakistani Women Buried Alive 'for Choosing Husbands'

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
Very sad story.

What's up with all these comments generalising against muslims because of this story? this act has nothing to do with Islam, these murderers are another example of dumbasses who are full of ignorance, let's try not to be the same.

[edit on 1-9-2008 by _Phoenix_]

Quote from the Quaran,

"Quran 4:34: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in their sleeping places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

So Islam makes men nothing more than woman beaters. If you are a Muslim you are a woman beater, condone woman beating or are silent to woman beating by others of your kind. Not an opinion, fact, an inconvenient truth.

reply to post by kcfusion

Do I understand? Very definately. More people have been kill because of religion than for any other reason. The Catholics and Protestants are still trying to kill eachother, the Muslims and the Jews are at each others throats. As far as I can tell the powerful have used religion to keep the unwashed masses in line throughout history. From the Priestess or Shaman to the English nobility where the third son goes into the church.

Is there a higher being? Perhaps but I doubt he likes ANY of the human made religions.

Originally posted by bodrul
reply to post by L.HAMILTON

 

apart from the stupid one line opening post

These are centuries-old traditions, and I will continue to defend them,

guess tribal law is represents all of packistan and muslim majority


let the flow of islomofacists come in with their one liners

Show me something good that has come from this religion then bodrul, while I'm waiting here is last night’s Channel4 documentary on Mosque teachings in Britain, notice the calls for female discrimination, death to homosexuals and hate/death to non believers (Christian pigs and monkey Jews... apparently)

Undercover Mosque : Dispatches : Channel 4
Part 2 of 5, get the rest on youtube

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Forget money, religion is the root of all evil. No matter how you slice it, if you don't follow, they will try and destroy you. Be it physically or mentally.

I live in Canada and the way the government rolls over as soon as somebody says "your infringing on my religious beliefs" makes me want to puke.

Keep your religion where it belongs, in your home or in a place of worship. Bringing it to the streets is starting to piss alot of people off. Namely me.

They should do the same to those guys that buried those poor girls.

End communication.

[edit on 2-9-2008 by DazE777]

Originally posted by poet1b

As far as I am concerned these villagers are all a bunch of murderers. Sorry, the ole tribal customs excuse doesn't do it for me. These people in this village who are responsible for this should all be rounded up and shot.

I don't want people who hold these types of beliefs to ever be able to live next door to me. How do we distinguish the nut cases from the decent people? If a guy in my neighborhood is telling his sons that the girls running around dressing the way they want to dress are all whores, his kid isn't going to respect my daughter, so I don't want him to live in my community. Sorry, but when people go this far, lines have to be drawn.

This is why we see the things that are going on in Europe.

When the local government condones this barbaric act, there is not much more you can say. Cancel all visas, because our own future should come first.

I would not go as far as you say, maybe educate people and get them to see the light a bit instead of being so backwards. But then again when you do try and tell them to look the otherway they will probably kill you anyway for being the infedel.

I find it truly amazing that people belonging to the country involved with the most human rights abuse dare to speak ill about other countries.

Let's talk about hypocrisy shall we?

Hypocrisy #1) All white caucasian americans are immigrants but insult more recent immigrants by calling them.... immigrants

Hypocrisy #2) Insult the entire middle east almost when they are the most peaceful all while you being the most colonially evil.

Hypocrisy #3) Generalize on an entire nation based on reading about select few individual idiots belonging to that nation when on your side of the world it's YOUR COUNTRY that is the most oppressive nation on the planet.

Perhaps you would respect these people more if they buried the women on foreign soil, perhaps in a secret prison in cuba for example.

From colonialism to world domination, all throughout the timeline of history which race was the most violent? Please go read a book people.
You are all too quick to jump on racism to cloak the evils of your own people.

I went to research the difference between tribal crimes and religion, and its pretty clear, as these crimes are similar in many various regions, so they pertain to Islam:

www.westernresistance.com...

We mentioned on May 22 that a conference on honour killings had begun in Pakistan's capital, Islamabad, entitled "We Can End Honour Killing". Various representatives from NGOs and rights groups were in attendance, and their statistics are dispiriting. Between 1000 and 1500 people, mostly women, are annually slaughtered because of suspected "impropriety" or refusal to engage in the forced marriages which are so common amongst Pakistani families, no matter where they live.

Just from media reports, between January and April this year, 158 women and 56 men had been killed nationally in honor killings. In North-West Frontier Province, a total of 76 women and men had been killed this year.

Further details of this conference can be found in Dawn and the Daily Times. Honour killing only became illegal at the start of last year. Officially, a minimum 10-year jail sentence is imposed on perpetrators of honour killings. In practice, however, there is a problem.
As we reported on April 6, the law includes a clause called "compoundability". This allows the perpetrator of a crime to legally bribe the relatives of a victim, and thus walk away free....


The blame is often laid at the door of "tribal customs" and people try to avoid the taint of Islam in honour killings. But the Hudood Ordinances, a set of Islamic laws, condone stoning a woman to death for adultery.

That honour killings also happen among people of culturally separate Kurdish, also Turkish and Palestinian ethnic origins, gives the lie to the notion that tribal customs are to blame. Islam is to blame, and Islam alone.

We told the story of Mukhtar Mai, a woman who in June 2002 was ordered by a Muslim panchayat to be gang-raped by a group of volunteers in her Punjabi village of Meerwala Jatoi. Her "crime" had been that her 12-year old younger brother had been seen walking with a girl of a higher caste....




And beyond Pakistan, though it is regarded as a sin to commit suicide, Muslim girls are often encouraged to commit suicide when they are seen to have become "tainted". In Ramallah, "Palestinian" territory, on January 2, 2004, Amira Abu Hanhan Qaoud gave her daughter Rofayda a razor blade and ordered the teenager to kill herself by slashing her wrists.

Rofayda's crime was the fact that she had been raped by her two elder brothers and had become pregnant. The child of the rape had been born and given up for adoption. When Rofayda did not obey her mother, Mrs Qaoud put a plastic bag over her daughter's head, sliced her wrists with the razor blade, and when her daughter went limp, she finished her off with a blow on her head from a stick....

The Italian news agency AKI and the UK Independent report that in Turkey, girls have killed or attempted to kill themselves this year in record numbers. These suicides are happening in the eastern parts of the country. In the city of Van this year, 20 young women have committed suicide, more than happened in the whole of 2005. In the Kurdish city of Batman, 10 women and girls under the age of 23 have committed suicide.

Just an example, and it goes a little beyond mere tribal customs. Yes this is a blog, but I chose it because it was more loaded with information than the average article.

[edit on 2-9-2008 by mystiq]

Originally posted by Lebowski achiever
reply to post by Dan Tanna

 

Of course there are only Islamic despicable people. No other race/religious group is capable of such atrocities.

However, having said that, it is one of the most appalling stories I have heard for a long time.

Regarding the story about Norway. Do you have a link?

Uh ? Did you miss the bit in history where christians would -----

Burn women at the stake for being a witch

throw babies to dogs for being unbaptised savages

cook peoples feet and make them walk on the stumps for alledged heracy

throw tied women into a river to see if they float for alledged witchcraft

The world is not allowed to forget what the Nazis did, but christianity can hide behind the "true christians never did that " excuse


At the end of the day, these women were punished by God for their crimes against him, scriptures clearly say that women should be subserviant to the man, this is godly anything else is of the devil.

What's the difference between Allah punishing them now or Jesus punishing them with an even worse fate later (which is apparently pretty soon) ?

How can the dicipline and punishment of sinners by God be condemned ?

Originally posted by poet1b As far as I am concerned these villagers are all a bunch of murderers. Sorry, the ole tribal customs excuse doesn't do it for me. These people in this village who are responsible for this should all be rounded up and shot.

That goes without saying...at very least, that these imbeciles should be brought to justice, and not their local kind.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical The Catholic church is the "Mother of Harlots" spoken of in Revelation. Rome is the "City of 7 Hills".:

Not everybody accepts the Bible as a literal, word for word, revelation direct from the ethereal lips of God. Some detect a little bit of human tinkering. They didn't just invent politics, you know.

Originally posted by crimvelvet Muslims in the USA and other western countries still mutilate girls genitalia. But at least here it is done in a hospital instead of relatives holding the girl down will they cut her up.

This is a cultural atrocity, nothing to do with the Koran.

Originally posted by dragonridr
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck Jeez, then I'd stay away from the book of Leviticus if I were you.

Have you ever read Leviticus?? aparently not! It was commands from god to moses it bans incest and sex from male to male...But now this is prohibited behavior this is not the ok from god to kill people.

I think you'd better take another peek. To make it easier to get a picture of this epic of Biblical mercy, I'll include the following link: www.stallman.org...

Originally posted by poet1b Did you bother to read the story line?

Israr Ullah Zehri, who represents Baluchistan province, told a stunned parliament that northwestern tribesman had done nothing wrong in first shooting the women and then dumping them in a ditch.

The freakin political leader supports this murderous act.

Did you bother to read the story line? The part where parliament is referred to as 'stunned' is not a Newfoundlander reference to them being stupid, you know?

Originally posted by spitefulgod Show me something good that has come from this religion...

If I'm not mistaken, the world of Islam was the repository for much of Europe's scientific knowlege while it was being suppressed by the Church during the Dark Ages. Here's a site that will help you out: scienceislam.com...

If y'all detect a common theme to what I'm saying here, it's simply that we in the west are experiencing the Orwellian smoke and mirrors that are required to further the 'war without end'. There's good and bad everywhere, and every religion is in a conflict between faith and power. Deny Ignorance, bunkies...don't fall for the xenophobic crap that we are being fed. If somebody is pointing the finger towards the evil 'other'...give them a long hard look instead.

What Medival Christians did was to look at the Old Testement and acted on it like they had a right to and not even people living during 100AD acted the way Medival period Christians did.

They did not realise the New Testement done away with old Covenants and the priest ceromonies were only for the Jewish tribes of the time Because of ignorance then and now and many still like to bring up Old Testement views to accuse Chritians, especially on this website they forget the New Covenant.

What the Qur'an does is throw out what the New Testemet that was preached and bring back the Old Testement mentality as a throw back to less tollerance. Even Jesus Christ speaks about changing of those judgements because he fullfilled the crimes of man as less punishable. Example like stoning the woman. When Muslims say they Believe in Jesus its not Christ him self, there is a difference.

John 8

1But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"

11"No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

reply to post by moocowman


And what year was this? The difference is that Islam is still practicing barbaric customs that enforce abuse of equality and human rights, in modern times when such practices have been curtailed in most of the world. It is a huge difference.

Originally posted by mystiq
The difference is that Islam is still practicing barbaric customs that enforce abuse of equality and human rights, in modern times when such practices have been curtailed in most of the world. It is a huge difference.

Are you aware of the fact that there are levels of practice in every faith? Islam included? Fundementalism is generally practiced by the poorest and most ignorant of folk. Should I start a thread based upon the evils of the Baptists, based upon Fred Phelps? Or maybe the Mormons, based upon Bountiful? Wake up!

Why so surprised?

It's not the religion that imposes these strict guidelines and punishments to cause fear in others so as to give ones unquestionable loyalty to a faction.

Quite a few Organizations some of which are not religious are mandated and run by individuals who subject their beliefs on others by creating conditions of consequences.

The most notable similarities are even in modern day jobs where employers know their employees need that next pay cheque to make ends meet. So consequences are put in place to have others choice to follow a request or suggestion, or else.

So in it's most basic terms.. its not really about religion but power over another individual or group/s.

Regarding the subject at hand, I'm sorry these woman had to die in such conditions. I also respect and applaud these woman for standing up to what their hearts believed and not what others thought.

Policies are created at a time when it meets a need. When it is no longer required or necessary it is labeled as tradition. Tradition does not benefit the majority, only a select few who are able to reap from it's benefits.

Laws are made and broken when change is needed. Only when the majority cry foul will changes be made. Whether these changes are beneficial to individuals will only be determined by what history writes.

Peace...


[edit on 2-9-2008 by Willbert]

first things first islam allows women to choose their husbands
just because some of the tribal people practice such rituals that does not mean islam follows the same

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
Very sad story.

What's up with all these comments generalising against muslims because of this story? this act has nothing to do with Islam, these murderers are another example of dumbasses who are full of ignorance, let's try not to be the same.

[edit on 1-9-2008 by _Phoenix_]

entirely untrue, speaking of ignorance.

honor killing and regarding women as just above livestock is a time honored tradition of islam, i am surprised someone as knowledgeable as you would not be aware of that.

Originally posted by moocowman

Uh ? Did you miss the bit in history where christians would -----

Burn women at the stake for being a witch

they were killed for reasons other than being a witch, the whole witch trial period was a charade.

throw babies to dogs for being unbaptised savages

cook peoples feet and make them walk on the stumps for alledged heracy

throw tied women into a river to see if they float for alledged witchcraft

The world is not allowed to forget what the Nazis did, but christianity can hide behind the "true christians never did that " excuse

those atrocities are not supported by christian doctrine, what allahs most faithful do, is supported by islamic word.

At the end of the day, these women were punished by God for their crimes against him, scriptures clearly say that women should be subserviant to the man, this is godly anything else is of the devil.

What's the difference between Allah punishing them now or Jesus punishing them with an even worse fate later (which is apparently pretty soon) ?

How can the dicipline and punishment of sinners by God be condemned ?

the scriptures do not say that clearly, if the subservience of women to men were law, it would have been mentioned in the commandments

you also may notice the lack of honor killing in christianity, which is commonplace and no big deal in islam...

see the difference yet?

reply to post by spitefulgod


bravo, you come up with a video from a fantic preacher, what does that have to do with the Quran?

if i wanted i could easily serch google or youtube and get enough undercover reports on churches and other groups that preach hate,

and other reports done by other media sources.

they represent all christian churches and other faiths they belong to?

Big Deal, am i supprised no
am i revolted yes, preaching hate isnt something i am brought up to like.

funny how no one goes under cover in mosques like mine
where we dont get this crap but what the hell ratings are all that matters.



secondly what has Islam done for the world
it has motivated Muslims all over world to aspire to better them selves
and work on new discoveries over the centuries,.

quick search of ATS or google will do,

you dont like my faith good for you, like i care

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
I find it truly amazing that people belonging to the country involved with the most human rights abuse dare to speak ill about other countries.

it would be if it were true, but it is not, so it is not amazing at all

Let's talk about hypocrisy shall we?

Hypocrisy #1) All white caucasian americans are immigrants but insult more recent immigrants by calling them.... immigrants

immigrant is not an insult, it is merely a useful adjective

Hypocrisy #2) Insult the entire middle east almost when they are the most peaceful all while you being the most colonially evil.

well over 10,000 terrorist attacks, in the name of allah since 9/11 alone... peaceful?

Hypocrisy #3) Generalize on an entire nation based on reading about select few individual idiots belonging to that nation when on your side of the world it's YOUR COUNTRY that is the most oppressive nation on the planet.

we have women and minorities who own industry and and hold high office, how are we oppressive, again?

Perhaps you would respect these people more if they buried the women on foreign soil, perhaps in a secret prison in cuba for example.

cheap shot, indeed, no substance.

From colonialism to world domination, all throughout the timeline of history which race was the most violent? Please go read a book people.
You are all too quick to jump on racism to cloak the evils of your own people.

islam is not a race, regarding a dangerous thing as a dangerous thing is simply good judgement

Originally posted by bodrul
reply to post by spitefulgod

 

bravo, you come up with a video from a fantic preacher, what does that have to do with the Quran?

if i wanted i could easily serch google or youtube and get enough undercover reports on churches and other groups that preach hate,

and other reports done by other media sources.

you mean like the rev wright? obama's pastor?

go right ahead, i know i'd love to see them...

what those imams convey in those videos is soundly supported by the koran, a very good book i highly recommend for all my fellow infidels to know from cover to cover

its plainly written and not difficult to grasp, and an all around very good read.

Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by kcfusion

 

Do I understand? Very definately. More people have been kill because of religion than for any other reason. The Catholics and Protestants are still trying to kill eachother, the Muslims and the Jews are at each others throats.

the northern ireland conflict is about nationalism, not religion

jews, like christians, must submit to islam. period.

all people of other religions (and atheists) must convert or die.

any questions?